132 replies to this topic

[AustinF1]

Between this and the Bruce McLaren film, those of us in the USA will be lucky to see it on DVD, if they make one that works this side of the pond...

I watched it on Netflix last night in the U.S.

[TomNokoe]

Watched it, Frank was and is an intriguing character. Very frustrating at times and his accident was so bloody avoidable!!

From a human point of view, really good. A lot of emphasis of the romance of the sport and what it means to be "motor racing people".

Edited by TomNokoe, 09 November 2017 - 17:30.

[AustinF1]

Watched it, Frank was and is an intriguing character. Very frustrating at times and his accident was so bloody avoidable!!

From a human point of view, really good. A lot of emphasis of the romance of the sport and what it means to be "motor racing people".

Yep. And it seems like Peter Windsor was probably pretty lucky not to have been seriously injured or killed.

[PayasYouRace]

Don't know. Walter Wolf is probably the only team-owner who walked away from F1 without a broken heart (like Gunther Schmidt, Mo Nunn, Don Nichols did), Wolf did rather cheerful, AFAIK.
 
On topic more: one can read between the lines that Wolf did not regard Frank highly and that the partnership was not really, well, a partnership...

It did seem more like Walter was using Frank as a way to get his foot in he door. But while his team had that initial bit of success, Frank’s new team surpassed that by a long way. Frank seems pretty happy with what he does too.

[Collombin]

Again Jackie Stewart annoys me with a quote that I think is exaggerated, and the filmmakers don't help with footage of crashes from 1961, 1967, 1970 and 1973 thrown together plus a little bit of Le Mans from 1955. The voiceover quote was something like, 'at one point we lost friends in four consecutive weekends'.

That last bit is true - presumably the exaggerated Stewart quote is his stock "if you raced for 5 years you had 2/3 chance of being killed". The actual death rate was nowhere near that.

[PayasYouRace]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Sir Jackie and co. did lose friends in four consecutive weekends at one stage, if you include all racing categories, but it does sound like an exaggeration and didn’t happen solely in F1.

[Collombin]

I misread that completely, I was thinking of that Summer 1968 thing which was the same weekend of four consecutive months, but not four consecutive weekends!

[Little Leaf]

Just finished watching it, highly recommended!

[David Lightman]

Was the feud between Clare and Jonathan public knowledge before this was released? To me it seems like he needs to grow up.

[Nemo1965]

Was the feud between Clare and Jonathan public knowledge before this was released? To me it seems like he needs to grow up.

 

I think that the documentary suggested that, if Ginny would have been alive, she would have pushed Frank to divide the Williams-team in two roles, and let Claire and Jonathan share the honours. But perhaps I misunderstood. I understand Jonathan's grief, by the way...

[RECKLESS]

I understand Jonathan's grief, by the way...

Totally.

 

The drug that is Formula 1 seems like a cushion for the rest of them to keep it comfortably numb in regard to the family pain...

Edited by RECKLESS, 09 November 2017 - 21:29.

[barzini]

It's totally OK for him to be upset about the decision but a family company can't be divided and still be competitive. It's quite common that these kind of things happen with family businesses.

[AustinF1]

Anyone else wonder what Nige was talking about when he mentioned how he arrived at the scene of the crash and had to get some people to do the right thing or some such thing?

[David Lightman]

Loved how candid Dickie Stanford (I think it was?) was about Nigel being a dick out of the car. No love lost there.

[Anja]

Anyone else wonder what Nige was talking about when he mentioned how he arrived at the scene of the crash and had to get some people to do the right thing or some such thing?

 

The way I read it was that he was making sure the doctors/medical staff were doing their best or something like that. But it was kind of a weird line. 

[PayasYouRace]

Loved how candid Dickie Stanford (I think it was?) was about Nigel being a dick out of the car. No love lost there.

I think it was Frank Dernie, but yeah that was funny, but he did also admire Nigel’s caring and loving attitude to his family and his commitment and bravery in the car. He was just a pain to work with.

[Nemo1965]

The way I read it was that he was making sure the doctors/medical staff were doing their best or something like that. But it was kind of a weird line. 

 

I think I know what Mansell means. Perhaps even some British readers don't know this, but Mansell once broke his neck himself (not his spine, like Williams, obviously). When he arrived at the scene of the accident he improvised a neck-brace of sorts for Frank and urged the medics to keep the neck stable. Common practice now after accidents, but back then perhaps not as ingrained with medical personnel in ambulances.

[David Lightman]

I think it was Frank Dernie, but yeah that was funny, but he did also admire Nigel’s caring and loving attitude to his family and his commitment and bravery in the car. He was just a pain to work with.

Dernie, thanks for correcting.

[PayasYouRace]

Dernie, thanks for correcting.

To be honest I spent the whole film confusing the two.

[TheManAlive]

Watched the film today. Grew up cheering on Williams and it reminded me how great a team they are. Very well made, very moving in places with some great insights - also love the ‘now F off’ to Kim 😁

[Nemo1965]

I am kind of curious how people watched the documentary who came to know Frank Williams as the team-owner of the super-team of the early 80's and early 90's, and not the poor bastard who just to HAD to win the run around track-races every two weeks because otherwise he would not have money for either food or gas to drive home...

 

Because that is my first memory of Frank Williams in F1. In my mind, he was in the same category as Mo Nunn of Ensign, one of those typical 'garagistas' who would scrape around for money just to field a back-end team. And one of them was this fantastic runner...

 

Then, after Ronnie Peterson's death, I kind of drifted away from watching F1 for a couple of years. And then suddenly Williams was the new super-team. And I really had trouble believing this bloke Williams and that other bloke Williams I remembered were one and the same person. (This was of course WAY before internet and google, on which you can now just find it in a nano-second.) I remember that I saw a picture of Frank Williams after that infamous Grand Prix in Brazil where Reuteman ignored team-orders to let Alan Jones pass... and then I knew: 'Oh darn! It is the same bloke!'

 

PS: Yes, that means I missed the whole 1979-season. So before Youtube I had only read in retrospect about Villeneuve-Arnoux in Dijon! Oh tempora, oh mores!

 

PPS: And I missed the 1980 season too... and now I've read so much about it, I could swear I did not miss it!

Edited by Nemo1965, 10 November 2017 - 20:45.

[Wingcommander]

A really good documentary. And quite different to the usual F1 stuff. 

[Anja]

Yes, it was very much about the human side of the story with racing being pretty much used to put the other stuff in context. Not something we've seen a lot of. 

[sopa]

I am kind of curious how people watched the documentary who came to know Frank Williams as the team-owner of the super-team of the early 80's and early 90's, and not the poor bastard who just to HAD to win the run around track-races every two weeks because otherwise he would not have money for either food or gas to drive home...

 

Because that is my first memory of Frank Williams in F1. In my mind, he was in the same category as Mo Nunn of Ensign, one of those typical 'garagistas' who would scrape around for money just to field a back-end team. And one of them was this fantastic runner...

 

Then, after Ronnie Peterson's death, I kind of drifted away from watching F1 for a couple of years. And then suddenly Williams was the new super-team. And I really had trouble believing this bloke Williams and that other bloke Williams I remembered were one and the same person. (This was of course WAY before internet and google, on which you can now just find it in a nano-second.) I remember that I saw a picture of Frank Williams after that infamous Grand Prix in Brazil where Reuteman ignored team-orders to let Alan Jones pass... and then I knew: 'Oh darn! It is the same bloke!'

 

PS: Yes, that means I missed the whole 1979-season. So before Youtube I had only read in retrospect about Villeneuve-Arnoux in Dijon! Oh tempora, oh mores!

 

PPS: And I missed the 1980 season too... and now I've read so much about it, I could swear I did not miss it!

 

Nice story.

 

So what do you think retrospectively, what did Frank do better than Mo Nunn, et al? And how pretty much within a year a backmarker team turned into a front-runner?

[Nemo1965]

Nice story.

 

So what do you think retrospectively, what did Frank do better than Mo Nunn, et al? And how pretty much within a year a backmarker team turned into a front-runner?

 

Well, that was the part that the documentary left out. I don't know how many people know this story, but Frank Williams big breakthrough was the sponsorship by the Saudi companies. Without that...

 

Frank kind of suckered the Saudi princes to sponsor him. He pursued them for months. Then he had a brilliant idea. He painted his F1-car in the Saudi-colours and parked it in front of the hotel where the Saudi's were staying he targeted. The Saudi's (amongst whom far family of Osama bin Laden) loved it so much, they decided to sponsor the team.

 

Good management by Frank? Or just an incredible stroke of luck? A stab in the dark that turns out to just find the light switch?

 

Mo Nun and Ensign, by the way in 1980, were chosen by the English government to get sponsorship from British Leyland and Unipart. So a conscious choice to support British entrepreneurship. The little team seemed to be on the way up... and then Reggazoni crashed in Long Beach, (while in 3rd place, in front of Fittipaldi, who later finished 3rd in the race) and became a quadriplegic (just like Frank). 

 

Bad luck? After Rega's crash Ensign folded... the heart was ripped from the team. Though that had also to do with Nunn's actions, who just mismanaged a lot of stuff.

 

What Frank did better than Nunn, was that he surrounded himself with the right people... finally. First Alan Jones... which was also a gamble, because even the Williams-team now (see the documentary) did not realize how good he was. Then Patrick Head... that was a real conscious choice by Frank, and like he said: the best relationship he ever started.

 

I think that a lot of successful people in the 70's took incredible chances and incredible luck their gamble paid off. Niki Lauda (borrowed money to a house he did not own!). Mansell mortgaged his house (and broke his neck). Williams went bankrupt about three times, I think. And there are many others. All three of them are incredible talents, they deserved the lucky breaks they got... but we will never remember the poor blighters who put everything on black and then the ball landed on red... history does not write their story).

 

PS: With the exception of Stephen South. His story WAS written).

Edited by Nemo1965, 11 November 2017 - 16:00.

[paulb]

Wonderful documentary. I’m a fan of the team now after seeing what the family has been through.

Good luck Claire and team.

[Wingcommander]

It was great!

[Dalton007]

I enjoyed the documentary. I like that it was centered around Frank and Ginny and sacrifices both made; Frank for pure racing, Ginny looking after her husband. They were always meant to be together.

 

Frank comes across as cold, but inside that shell is an emotional man. I sensed there was a lot of emotion being repressed and Claire wants to express, but Frank keeps to his manta "Don't cry." 

 

"F off Kimi" was funny.    And Frank Dernie on Mansell "He was a complete arse out of the car."

 

I was a Williams fan cos of Mansell, for me, that combo is still my favourite in motorsport. 

Edited by Dalton007, 19 November 2017 - 15:23.

[Alfisti]

Just saw this. Interesting. I wish more was covered, it left a lot of key areas unexplored.

Frank is hard to like, I admire his grit but he clearly feels somewhat detached from his family and cheating on a devoted wife is poor form.

Claire dearly misses her mother, you can see how she still needs her. She reads her dad well too.

Mansell comes across as a straight up guy, maybe a bit negative and annoying but a proper stand up bloke. He would have your back.

Head and dernie are as youd expect, both brilliant, both fierce allies and both carried the team after the accident.

Ginny is an odd cat, I suspect she felt confined by her wealth and closed social scene and found Frank appealing. It's a father's nightmare.

[David Lightman]

Not sure if this is a new offer or not, but the Kindle edition of Ginny's book is only 99p in the UK at the moment.

[427MkIV]

Watched it a few days ago thanks to covid-19 teleworking. Had to fast-forward through a few areas as my 7-year-old son was also watching. I liked the way it was done from Ginny's viewpoint. If you want a season-by-season recap, there's always Wikipedia. The film left me liking and respecting Claire a lot. It's a shame that even with Mercedes engines the team hasn't been able to do more and that her stock may suffer due to that. 

[JordanIreland]

Frank Williams was an ass-hole in general and in particular to his family.

Could not agree more. He has been a complete ass-hole to his wife and family. Can you imagine if he was your father. What a living hell to live with such a turd.

Yes, the Williams team had amazing success in the past, but life is more than racing and should never justify such cruel and sub base behaviour.

The reckless driving which resulted in his life long injuries could easily have killed other innocent people.

Given his lowlife behaviour, it’s no surprise the team had to be sold.

[JordanIreland]

Frank is hard to like, I admire his grit but he clearly feels somewhat detached from his family and cheating on a devoted wife is poor form.

Frank is a lowlife. Really difficult to comprehend such base behaviour.