161 replies to this topic

[SouthF1]

What on earth is going on here?

I read it was during practice and that yellows were shown. (Edit: It was actually red flagged atm)

 

Surely the should have learned after the Bianchi incident and shown a red flag instead.

 

https://twitter.com/...400143994634240

 

Edit: Finally on youtube

Edit 2: Sophia Floersch fined 20.000 Euro for posting video on social media.

https://www.motorspo...ncident-927938/

 

Edited by SouthF1, 08 July 2017 - 10:12.

[wj_gibson]

That would absolutely have been a fatal accident.

[ckolcz]

When I looked at the title I instantly thought about De Villota's crash. Glad I was wrong.

 

Lucky girl.

Edited by juliuscaesar, 08 July 2017 - 06:52.

[Marklar]

Amazing reaction, but pathetic that it came to this situation. Even before Bianchi these things shouldnt happen.

SouthF1, on 08 Jul 2017 - 06:47, said:

(I don't know if there is a way to get the tweet embedded directly in the post so that you don't have to click the link?)

Nope there isnt.

[TauriJ]

omg one second later and...

 

I bet the f4 would of digged itself under the SUV and Floersch's head would've hit the side of the recovery vehicle

[ckolcz]

Marklar, on 08 Jul 2017 - 06:52, said:

Amazing reaction, but pathetic that it came to this situation. Even before Bianchi these things shouldnt happen.Nope there isnt.

Especially after Bianchi's accident you would think the officials have more common sense. Amazing that they didn't red flag the session.

[FullOppositeLock]

Ultimately FIA is to blame for the official's actions, bit I can't imagine that SUV would have been cleared to cross the track at that stage. Would be interesting to find out what happened exactly. In any case a very serious incident that needs looking into, and kudos to Floria for preventing a disaster.

[Nonesuch]

SouthF1, on 08 Jul 2017 - 06:47, said:

I read it was during practice and that yellows were shown.

 

In that case this driver has no business being on track again.

 

[Donkey]

Nonesuch, on 08 Jul 2017 - 07:17, said:

In that case this driver has no business being on track again.

Another F4 car whizzed by at speed just a few seconds later.

[JonnyJ]

Terrifying stuff and utterly unacceptable. If it wasn't for her amazingly quick reactions that could've been fatal.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

SouthF1, on 08 Jul 2017 - 06:47, said:

What on earth is going on here?

I read it was during practice and that yellows were shown.

 

Surely the should have learned after the Bianchi incident and shown a red flag instead.

 

https://twitter.com/...400143994634240

OUCH! So very, very lucky...

 

No leason seems to have been leant! FFS!

[peroa]

I guess if the SUV driver aplogizes it should be OK

[ExFlagMan]

The question is - was it an official vehicle or a spectator vehicle that had managed to find a way out onto the track - which has been known to happen on more that one occasion.

If it was an official recovery vehicle I would have expected it to have flashing lights etc.

[RedBaron]

I was not expecting to see that. Unbelievable.

 

Surely there would have been yellow flags as the truck was there due to an incident?

 

I only saw that short clip so can't pass judgement. But if there were yellows, she was going at it pretty hard...

 

If there were no yellows and the truck was just there devoid of any incident or decent reason that is almost unthinkably stupid.

 

Edit: I read there tweet, there was a stranded car that the truck was going to recover, so there must have been yellows... That was too fast for yellows. Although if a truck needs to go in the firing line yellows are not sufficient.

 

Not enough caution on both sides.

 

Lucky lucky escape.

Edited by RedBaron, 08 July 2017 - 07:30.

[Nonesuch]

Donkey, on 08 Jul 2017 - 07:23, said:

Another F4 car whizzed by at speed just a few seconds later.

 

The disregard for marshal safety so often on display in the higher categories doesn't start there.

 

The FIA should have a clear and consistent stance that flags mean something and that drivers who fail to understand that are not welcome.

 

This of course on the assumption that appropriate flags were shown - the video isn't good enough to tell, but it's what's being said.

[Muppetmad]

That's a very, very lucky escape. Yellow flags aren't shown appropriate respect, indeed, but a situation like this should not unfold under yellow flags alone.

[sportyskells]

someone at race control might be blamed here as it was not safe to cross the race track.

[SamH123]

Some people saying there looks like a red flag before the incident?

[Kev00]

I saw a slightly longer clip and was no clear signs of yellow or red flags. Even if they were shown you have to make sure that everybody has seen a red flag. The car behind Sophia hadn't really slowed either had it?

[Dolph]

Unbelievably bad situation.

[dweller23]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone presses charges (which wouldn't be anything new in motorsport, see Stewart's Sprint Car incident), she's lucky to be alive.

[Ruusperi]

Both Sophia and the SUV driver must have seen their lives flashed before their eyes. Jesus Christ. It's like allowing Cessna to runaway while Airbus is landing, or vice versa.

[FullOppositeLock]

Kev00, on 08 Jul 2017 - 08:35, said:

I saw a slightly longer clip and was no clear signs of yellow or red flags. Even if they were shown you have to make sure that everybody has seen a red flag. The car behind Sophia hadn't really slowed either had it?

Have you got a link? It's hard to make anything out in this low quality clip that was posted earlier.

[Kev00]

https://streamable.com/q268i

It's actually not longer but it's clearer on my phone at least. About 2 seconds in you can see one of the lights is red above her head. Maybe this was a red flag signal? No flags to be seen anywhere.

[garoidb]

peroa, on 08 Jul 2017 - 07:26, said:

I guess if the SUV driver aplogizes it should be OK

 

Are you comparing the level of danger of this to what happened between Vettel and Hamilton in Baku? 

[LucaP]

Sorry but what track is that? Looks like Oschers

[SouthF1]

It's Oschersleben yes.

[Ruusperi]

So the session was in fact red-flagged:

https://www.motorspo...ncident-927938/

 

Why was Sophia driving at full speed? And looks like FIA want to punish for publishing the video, probably for being bad for their image.

Edited by Ruusperi, 08 July 2017 - 09:39.

[Muppetmad]

If the red flags were displayed and if there is good reason to believe Floersch should have seen them, then the fault shifts strongly towards her (and the car behind her also).

[ANF]

Ruusperi, on 08 Jul 2017 - 09:39, said:

So the session was in fact red-flagged:
https://www.motorspo...ncident-927938/
 
Why was Sophia driving at full speed? And looks like FIA want to punish for publishing the video, probably for being bad for their image.

And the car behind her.

[Kev00]

Surely if there is a red flag it should be waved at every Marshall point. I didn't see one in this whole video.

[garoidb]

Kev00, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:14, said:

Surely if there is a red flag it should be waved at every Marshall point. I didn't see one in this whole video.

 

Same here. Thank goodness we are looking at this from the perspective of a near miss rather than the alternative, but something doesn't add up here.

[ANF]

Kev00, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:14, said:

Surely if there is a red flag it should be waved at every Marshall point. I didn't see one in this whole video.

I agree. Turning up the saturation I can see a red blur on driver's right just before the chicane, and maybe that's a flag. But there's got to be more flag posts than that?

[Nemo1965]

Like someone said earlier: I would really like to see a better video. Because I can't see yellow flags, I can't see red flags, lights whatever. Do F4 cars have radio-coms? The thesis that Sophia Floersch posted the video to show the absence of flags, sounds... reasonably. Why would a driver post a video on which she turns out to be a total idiot?

 

EDIT: The article posted above states that there's a red flag just before the corner... But even that I can't see.

Edited by Nemo1965, 08 July 2017 - 10:26.

[Marklar]

Nemo1965, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:25, said:

Like someone said earlier: I would really like to see a better video. Because I can't see yellow flags, I can't see red flags, lights whatever. Do F4 cars have radio-coms? The thesis that Sophia Floersch posted the video to show the absence of flags, sounds... reasonably. Why would a driver post a video on which she turns out to be a total idiot?

 

EDIT: The article posted above states that there's a red flag just before the corner... But even that I can't see.

[FullOppositeLock]

Nemo1965, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:25, said:

Like someone said earlier: I would really like to see a better video. Because I can't see yellow flags, I can't see red flags, lights whatever. Do F4 cars have radio-coms? The thesis that Sophia Floersch posted the video to show the absence of flags, sounds... reasonably. Why would a driver post a video on which she turns out to be a total idiot?

EDIT: The article posted above states that there's a red flag just before the corner... But even that I can't see.

Did she actually post it herself?

Edit: please ignore, just read the motorsport.com article

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 08 July 2017 - 10:29.

[AvranaKern]

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @ SophiaFloersch  47m47 minutes ago

More

 

I got an fine of 20000 Euro from DMSB, because i posted that video without permission if ADAC.

 

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @SophiaFloersch  6m6 minutes ago

More

Sorry guys, but the turn normally is one gear higher 170 km/h. We have data. I didnt get a fine because I did anything wrong under red.

[Disgrace]

Even if there are red flags, it doesn't seem appropriate to have vehicles crossing the circuit while cars are still out there. While circumstances are different, this reminds me of Jack Harvey's crash at the Indy 500. A recovery vehicle responding to an accident still taking place had to hit the brakes to avoid him. It's not a situation that should occur at all.

[SophieB]

Driving unsafely during yellow and red flags is a longstanding issue, not only in terms of driver safety, but of marshals. But drivers failing to abide by not only the letter of the law here, but the wider spirit of the law can should never be an excuse to let serious safety lapses slide.

Things a driver might reasonably expect under flagged conditions: debris, person on the track, crashed cars. Things that can never be reasonable to navigate under any flagged conditions: recovery vehicles travelling across the track. Because they should never be there at the same time as the cars in the first place. This was not a random hazard but an appallingly implemented conscious decision. Somebody somewhere made the decision to go across a racetrack before making sure the other cars were in the pits first and that's got to be looked at.

I also don't think it's a good look that the first action following it was to fine the driver for bringing it to the wider public's attention but ehhh.

I apologise if a few people *don't* mean 'well, if she had been obeying the flags, it would have been okay', because that's how it's coming across a bit.

[Kev00]

ali.unal, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:31, said:

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @ SophiaFloersch 47m47 minutes ago


More


I got an fine of 20000 Euro from DMSB, because i posted that video without permission if ADAC.

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @SophiaFloersch 6m6 minutes ago


More

Sorry guys, but the turn normally is one gear higher 170 km/h. We have data. I didnt get a fine because I did anything wrong under red.

So is she is saying she knew it was was red flagged and slowed down?

[SamH123]

20,000 Euro sounds a huge fine givev this can't be a very large series? 

[Marklar]

SamH123, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:44, said:

20,000 Euro sounds a huge fine givev this can't be a very large series? 

Then again it's Germany. You get tremendous fines here if you are breaking the copyright, regardless what it is.

[Vielleicht]

SamH123, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:44, said:

20,000 Euro sounds a huge fine givev this can't be a very large series?

I agee. If it's in the rules that they aren't allowed to do that then ok, but I'd expect around max 500 Euro I must say. Also given the nature of the incident, whether their intent or not it does appear that they are punishing her for tarnishing their image on safety. It reflects worse on the organisers than Sophia in my eyes.

[Nonesuch]

Disgrace, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:35, said:

Even if there are red flags, it doesn't seem appropriate to have vehicles crossing the circuit while cars are still out there.

 

There will be cases where vehicles need to be at the site of an accident to provide immediate support for the driver in trouble.

 

If you lower the bar for yellow flags to, for example, debris on the track you - as race director and clerk of the course - lose a valuable tool and are left with only a safety car or red flag.

 

The FIA International Sporting Code is very clear about the meaning of the flags:

 

Quote

 

7.2.4 Signalling

 

Double waved yellow: Reduce your speed and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track.

Red flag: Drivers must stop where they are and await instructions from the marshals.

 

Whether or not the flags were used properly and in such places as would have alerted the drivers to the actions of the marshals is worth investigating as well, because from the video posted it looks very much like people weren't exactly being eager to inform the drivers.

[FLB]

SouthF1, on 08 Jul 2017 - 06:47, said:

Edit 2: Sophia Floersch fined 20.000 Euro for posting video on social media.

https://www.motorspo...ncident-927938/

I guess the most important for the authorities is trying to save face? To keep people from talking publicly? I understand a copyright fine, but surely not that much?

 

Sorry to bring this up, but how much exactly was Vettel fined for his little outburst in Baku?

Edited by FLB, 08 July 2017 - 10:55.

[spacekid]

ali.unal, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:31, said:

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @ SophiaFloersch 47m47 minutes ago


More


I got an fine of 20000 Euro from DMSB, because i posted that video without permission if ADAC.

Sophia Floersch‏Verified account @SophiaFloersch 6m6 minutes ago


More

Sorry guys, but the turn normally is one gear higher 170 km/h. We have data. I didnt get a fine because I did anything wrong under red.

If I'm reading this correctly she wants to sort her attitude out. She knew it was red flag and that's how she was driving? Am I reading that right?

[SouthF1]

In my opinion she still drove way too fast during the red flag situation it was.

She said she drove one gear less than full speed. That can't be enough caution surely?

 

As proven in the video she almost failed to avoid the danger. Of course the car should't be there in the first place but it could have been another race car, the driver of the stranded car, a marshall or whatever.

The red flag means immediate danger.

Edited by SouthF1, 08 July 2017 - 10:57.

[Vielleicht]

spacekid, on 08 Jul 2017 - 10:53, said:

If I'm reading this correctly she wants to sort her attitude out. She knew it was red flag and that's how she was driving? Am I reading that right?

I'm reading that she wasn't fined for her driving - which means stewards have judged it to be ok and within the rules. I don't see that as a problem with her attitude - I see that as a problem with the rules and processes of the organisers.

In a way it's similar to Rosberg keeping pole despite lifting only a tiny bit for a yellow flag - only much more serious. You can argue about what the driver should have done, but if it's judged to be within the rules then what can you do? The rules need sorting - and apparently the motorsport world is slow to learn.

Edited by Vielleicht, 08 July 2017 - 10:59.

[ANF]

At 8:30 you can see where the flag posts were in the 2015 DTM race.

[Burtros]

A 2nd car flashes through just before the video ends.

To my mind there's clearly more st play here than just one individual error on the part of Sofia.

Will be interesting to see what the situation was, what the circuit car was going to attend to etc.

Very lucky escape though and very shocking to watch.