26 replies to this topic

[Jon Saltinstall]

I was intrigued to find this image on FSV forum which shows Niki Lauda (in civvies) aboard what appears to be a Formula Super Vee Kaimann, judging by the suspension and engine layouts which are significantly different from what he raced in F Vee.

 

I am guessing that this is publicity photo for Kaimann, his former team, taken when the Super Vee formula was established in 1971. The car itself appears to be the one below, taken from the launch images:

 

 

Is there any more information about this out there; for example, when and where was it taken, did he test the car, and so on? I am guessing that he was an "established" (well, sort of) works F2 driver in 1971, it was something of a thank you to his former (co-Austrian) team?

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 10 July 2017 - 16:27.

[john winfield]

Jon, I think you're right about the lower photo. It appears in an old Auto Motor und Sport that I inherited from a school friend in 1971. The issue itself though was definitely from 1970, probably the one (December) covering the Mexican GP. So the launch photos could have been from October 1970. 

 

The airfield, and bright sunlight, all look the same - at the launch I think one shot shows a driver in a plain white helmet, almost certainly not Niki, but I presume he was always welcome back, even after a mediocre F3 MacNamara season in 1970! I guess that just signing for an F2 season with March for 1971 would have been enough to make him a minor celebrity, so the photo could conceivably be late 1970 or very early 1971. But probably later as you suggest.

[Jon Saltinstall]

Given that the car in the Lauda photo is similarly (un)liveried, I'm inclined to think that it is in fact from the same late-1970 launch shoot, or possibly pre-season 1971. The works cars had a different livery during the racing season.. I wonder where the venue is - plenty of "flugplatz" locations to choose from, but as Kaimann was based in Vienna, I guess Aspern is probably the favourite?

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 11 July 2017 - 19:05.

[Jon Saltinstall]

John - any chance you could post some of those launch images too, please; ideally one with the driver aboard as you describe and also a profile shot of the car? I'm looking to build up a model to add to my 1/43 Lauda collection. I'm also mindful that by the end of 1969, Lauda had switched from using an open-face to full-face white crash helmet, only changing to a red lid during his 1970 F3 season, so the driver you describe could possibly be him.....

[john winfield]

Jon - after half an hour's unsuccessful effort I have just remembered why I stopped posting photos some years back! It's just a small clipping but I'll have another go.

Edited by john winfield, 12 July 2017 - 07:54.

[john winfield]

I wonder if this will work.

 

https://lh3.googleus...w/Kaimann70.jpg

 

 

Ah.  A link to my uncropped scan. Well, better than nothing!  

 

That's all I have Jon, just these two small photos. There's nothing missing in the scan, although the magazine may have contained more shots. On the reverse of my clipping are updates on the 1970 RAC Rally which took place in mid-November so I'm almost certain that this Kaimann feature was in the December 1970 issue of Auto Motor und Sport.

Edited by john winfield, 12 July 2017 - 07:59.

[jcbc3]

^this:

 

[john winfield]

^this:

 

 

You technical wizard JC....thanks!

 

So Jon, is that Niki, 1970 vintage?

[Jon Saltinstall]

Thanks guys - tantalisingly, I can only see half of the scan as follows:

 

 

Late 1969 Lauda was using this helmet:

 

 

Though during 1970, in his F3 outings for Mcnamara he was in a red lid. So it's a "could be but possibly not?" Would love to see the rest of the profile shot to be more certain....

[john winfield]

Thanks guys - tantalisingly, I can only see half of the scan as follows:

 

 

Late 1969 Lauda was using this helmet:

 

 

Though during 1970, in his F3 outings for Mcnamara he was in a red lid. So it's a "could be but possibly not?" Would love to see the rest of the profile shot to be more certain....

 

Jon, as I suggested above, you're not missing anything! That's exactly what I have, a clipping from a (December) 1970 German motor sport magazine, with the truncated profile shot. The original was probably full profile, and there may have been more pictures, I can't remember. Perhaps someone has the magazine. I thought it was an Auto Motor und Sport but, after a Google, I don't recognise the covers. Was there another German motor sport monthly in the early 1970s?

Edited by john winfield, 14 July 2017 - 08:19.

[Jon Saltinstall]

Sorry John - my misunderstanding!

 

I'll scratch my head re the German monthlies and see if I can think of anything....   

 

Old Racing Cars .com refers to a German publication "ONS Mitteilungen" which i am not familiar with - could it be that?

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 14 July 2017 - 09:38.

[Jon Saltinstall]

One other thing that strikes me is that none of the records I can find refer to type numbers for the Kaimann cars after 1969, when the works machines are referred to as Mk.4s. As the 1968 cars were Mk.3s, one could assume the 1970 FVs were Mk.5s and the new FSVs Mk.6s.....that could of course be erroneous!

[john winfield]

Sorry John - my misunderstanding!

 

I'll scratch my head re the German monthlies and see if I can think of anything....   

 

Old Racing Cars .com refers to a German publication "ONS Mitteilungen" which i am not familiar with - could it be that?

 

I remember now Jon, it was (German) Sport-Auto. Given the RAC Rally updates it must be the December issue, the one with Ickx/Ferrari/Mexico GP cover.  #22.  There's one for sale on German Ebay, rather expensive at 15 euros, although I would expect cheaper copies to appear there from time to time.

[jcbc3]

What about Rallye Racing?


https://www.zwischen...e/rallye-racing


[edit]
ohh, now see that it was solved before I posted even.
[/rdit]

[john winfield]

What about Rallye Racing?


https://www.zwischen...e/rallye-racing


[edit]
ohh, now see that it was solved before I posted even.
[/rdit]

 

Thanks anyway JC. I always forget the German title Sport Auto because I think of that as a French magazine. I've no idea if they were connected but the two battered copies that I inherited were 100% German.

An older lad at school passed them on. He was very artistic and, I think, went on to become an architect. He had modified several of the articles, creating new liveries for otherwise plain cars, and designing new bodywork for various sports and open-wheel racers. I should have kept them!

[Jon Saltinstall]

Thanks John - that's great detective work. I'm on the trail of a reasonably priced copy; if I land one, I'll scan the relevant pages and upload here.....

[Jon Saltinstall]

One other thing that strikes me is that none of the records I can find refer to type numbers for the Kaimann cars after 1969, when the works machines are referred to as Mk.4s. As the 1968 cars were Mk.3s, one could assume the 1970 FVs were Mk.5s and the new FSVs Mk.6s.....that could of course be erroneous!

 

Have now found this image of the cars at the end of 1970, which suggests the 1969 FVs had simply continued in new livery and the new FSVs came in alongside. So maybe the FSVs were Mk.5s....

 

 

To confuse matters further, the Historic Formula Vau Europa website quotes the chassis number of one of those surviving 1971 Super Vee cars as "HFVE-FSV-1971-047", so maybe there just isn't a "standard" model number as such..... 

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 15 July 2017 - 08:34.

[Jon Saltinstall]

The plot thickens....

 

Good clear aerial photo below, looks like it's from the same airfield / bright sunlit session as the previous launch photos. White-helmeted driver again, but what is the logo on the top of the helmet? 

 

Yet the car (and team?) are sponsored by Erste Osterreich Spar - Casse, who were of course the personal sponsors whom Lauda brought with him for the 1969 F Vee season and subsequently followed him into F2/F1.

 

[Jon Saltinstall]

Getting somewhere on the helmet question, I think....

 

The white-helmeted driver in the FSV shots is Erich Breinsberg, a Kaimann works driver.  Lauda had started using a red helmet from the 1969 Osterreichring Formula fee event onwards. The image I posted earlier of a white-helmeted Lauda in the #18 Kaimann at the Nurburgring, which I described as "late 1969" is not, as is often reported, from the Eiffel Cup race in October that year, but actually from the FV event which supported the German Grand Prix in August. 

 

Still doesn't explain why the FSV launch / test car is carrying Lauda's personal sponsor decals, though....

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 05 August 2017 - 09:03.

[jcbc3]

I remember Raffeisen Bank as Lauda sponsor.



Or am I confused?

[Jon Saltinstall]

Raiffeisen was his second "Bank" sponsor, John - from 1972 onwards. If you look at the Kaimann FVees, Opel "Black Widow", F2 March 712s and his Austrian GP debut March 711 in 1971, they carry decals for "Erste Osterreich Sparkasse" (in various spellings). This was the savings bank whom Lauda first had as a personal sponsor. Oddly his 1970 F3 McNamaras don't carry this sponsorship; strange that the preceding and subsequent years' mounts do....

[Rupertlt1]

There is a set of photograph at Revs showing the FV race at the Rhein Cup, Hockenheim, 15 June 1969.

What # was Lauda at this race? We may have a photograph or two waiting to be discovered?

 

For example: https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 16 November 2021 - 08:42.

[Jon Saltinstall]

Hi Rupert

Thanks for your update - Niki was carrying #18 in the Rhein-Pokal-Rennen at Hockenheim in 1969. There's a shot of him shadowing Erich Breinsberg in the book; they had quite a dice!

[Rupertlt1]

This looks like #18 Niki Lauda?

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT 

[Jon Saltinstall]

This looks like #18 Niki Lauda?

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT 

 

I think that might be Breinsberg in #16, Rupert 

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Going out on a limb here but I have the distinct recollection of a photo in Road & Track magazine covering the 1967 German GP at the Nurb where it featured two FV's battling and if I'm not mistaken, heading into the South Kurve.  One car driven by Peter Peter...not a typo...and the other, Niki.  All subject to confirmation, of course.

[Jon Saltinstall]

There may well have been such coverage, Manfred, but Lauda's epic F/Vee race at the Nürburgring was in 1969 and his duel was with Helmut Marko rather than "Double Peter". If I may quote from my own book "Niki Lauda: His Competition History" -

 

Marko and Lauda were in a class of their own in this supporting race for the German Grand Prix on the full Nürburgring Nordschleife. The battle between the two Austrian hotshoes had added spice as Marko was paid a retainer by McNamara while Lauda — five years his junior — was unpaid at Kaimann, and both were aware that the Formula 1 team bosses were watching. Lauda was the first driver to break the 10-minute Formula Vee lap record in practice, but Marko was only a fraction slower. Both started on the front row in a field of 50 cars.

Lauda was in front at the end of lap 1 but the lead changed constantly as he and his compatriot shadowed and slipstreamed each other. Their terrific duel lasted the whole race: every one of the six laps was run faster than their qualifying pace, and Marko established the new Formula Vee lap record on the final lap as the battle reached its climax. Down the Döttinger-Höhe straight for the last time, Marko forced Lauda onto the grass in his attempt to get past and took the win by 15 seconds as his rival recovered. Their pace had been so fast that they finished nearly a minute ahead of the field.

The atmosphere on the podium was icy and the Kaimann team considered a protest against Marko’s robust tactics, but in the absence of any eye-witnesses to the incident (Kaimann Boss, Kurt) Bergmann decided against it.

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 14 December 2021 - 08:55.