38 replies to this topic

[OO7]

What circuits that you would choose for your F1 calendar.  Try to keep your selection realistic as far as safety and costs necessary to make the circuit/s suitable for F1, so forget about the Nürburgring Nordschleife .  You can explain any changes you would make to the circuits as well.

 

Here are my choices:

 

England - Silverstone:

For the 1991 to 1993 version below, I'd use the current (1997 - 2017+) Luffield section as well as the constant radius version of Copse shown above.

 

Japan - Suzuka:

This is the original (slightly longer) version of Suzuka, with a more open even faster T1.  Degner is one sweeping corner, Spoon Curve is further back with a faster entry, a small straight between the first and second part and with a slightly faster second part.  I'd keep the current first corner rather than the original.

 

Brazil - Interlagos:

Curva 3 & 4 would be brought closer to Subida do Lago to create the necessary run-off.

 

Belgium - Spa-Francorchamps:

This is the 2000 version of the circuit with the original, slightly tighter Eau Rouge and Raidillon.

 

San Marino - Imola:

I'd get rid of the Variante Bassa chicanes (as the circuit is today, due to lack of space) and make the Variante Alta chicane faster, perhaps as fast as the old Bassa chicane where Barrichello crashed.

 

Italy - Monza:

I'd make the short straight between the right-hand part of the T1 chicane and the left hand part shorter and the 2nd Lesmo faster.

 

Austria - Österrichring:

 

Hungary - Hungaroring:

The current version.

 

Portugal - Estoril:

The 1993 version.

 

Germany - Hockenheimring:

The 1993 version.

 

Canada - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve:

The 1993 version.

 

Australia - Albert Park:

 

Australia - Phillip Island:

The 1988 version.

 

Argentina - Potrero de los Funes:

The 1987 version.

 

Spain - Jerez:

The MotoGP version.

Spain - Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya:

1995 version.

 

Monte Carlo - Monaco:

 

Singapore - Marina Bay:

 

France - Clermont-Ferrand:

The circuit would need to be made wider with more run-off.

 

USA - Road America:

Edited by OO7, 15 July 2017 - 06:54.

[Victor_RO]

One immediate realism failure to point out though: of the old Kyalami configuration, only 2 corners exist and are part of the current track. Everything else has been demolished and built over. Therefore you'd need to demolish a few hundred houses to rebuild it as it used to be.

[OO7]

One immediate realism failure to point out though: of the old Kyalami configuration, only 2 corners exist and are part of the current track. Everything else has been demolished and built over. Therefore you'd need to demolish a few hundred houses to rebuild it as it used to be.

Thanks for the info Victor.  I'll change it.

[ArrowsLivery]

Where is Watkins Glen?

[OO7]

Where is Watkins Glen?

I'm currently mulling over The Glen or COTA.  If COTA it will have to be modified so the Mickey Mouse section is bypassed.

[OO7]

I decided on Phillip Island.

[garoidb]

Long Beach 1975 - 1981

 

 

I'm not sure if there are problems using the old circuit configuration, perhaps development etc, but something as close to it as possible.

Edited by garoidb, 15 July 2017 - 06:59.

[03011969]

Where is Watkins Glen?

 

It's in New York state...

[OO7]

Long Beach 1975 - 1981

 

 

I'm not sure if there are problems using the old circuit configuration, perhaps development etc, but something as close to it as possible.

Here is that configuration:

[V8 Fireworks]

My F1 calendar, you say? 

 

Asian leg 1

1. Adelaide, Australia
2. Sentul, Indonesia
3. Sepang, Malaysia
4. Pattaya, Thailand (Biraram circuit)
5. Shanghai, China
6. Buddh, India

European leg 1

1. Jerez, Spain
2. Monte Carlo, Monaco
3. Monza, Italy
4. Magny Cours, France
5. Silverstone, United Kingdom
6. Portimao, Portugal

American leg 1

1. Montreal, Canada
2. Road America, United States
3. Laguna Seca, United States

Euroepan leg 2

 

1. Assen, Netherlands
2. Spa, Belgium
3. Red Bull Ring, Austria
4. Hockenheim, Germany
5. Imola, Italy
6. Budapest, Hungary

Asian leg 2

1. Singapore, Singapore
2. Suzuka, Japan
3. Yeongam, South Korea

American leg 2

1. Mexico City, Mexico
2. Sao Paulo, Brasil

 

Am I right, or am I right. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 15 July 2017 - 07:21.

[Anja]

You say Nordschleife is unrealistic and then put Clermont-Ferrand on your list, that's some nice contradiction 

[Cavalier53]

The Nordschleife not realistic? At least there is tarmac to race on, just needs a few thousand marshalls..
 
To the contrary, the old Hockenheim is certainly not realistic; the old straights have been given back to nature and even a 4x4 will not get you from the stadium to the Ostkurve. What a fantastic bend that was before the chicane ruined it! Check here http://www.circuitso...n-US/hockenheim if you like

[OO7]

You say Nordschleife is unrealistic and then put Clermont-Ferrand on your list, that's some nice contradiction 

I was waiting for someone to point that out. 

 

Clermont is/was a third of the length of the Nordschleife.  I think it could be updated at a cost less than is typical to build a modern facility e.g COTA.

Edited by OO7, 15 July 2017 - 08:32.

[OO7]

The Nordschleife not realistic? At least there is tarmac to race on, just needs a few thousand marshalls..
 
To the contrary, the old Hockenheim is certainly not realistic; the old straights have been given back to nature and even a 4x4 will not get you from the stadium to the Ostkurve. What a fantastic bend that was before the chicane ruined it! Check here http://www.circuitso...n-US/hockenheim if you like

The Nordschleife is too narrow so would need to be widened (if better racing is desired), would need more run-off, more marshals as you mentioned etc, so the costs would be astronomical.

[Anja]

Nordschleife is long but at least it's still a real race track. Clermont-Ferrand is mostly public roads without room for any run-off and even if you put barriers at the edge of the road there's a major slope down behind it in what would be a pretty high-speed areas. It's not a question of cost so much as it is of the feasibility of it. Just like Nordschleife it's simply unsuitable for anything faster than GT cars in today's safety standards no matter how much money and effort you put to modernise it. 

Edited by Anja, 15 July 2017 - 09:03.

[David99]

The Nordschleife not realistic? At least there is tarmac to race on, just needs a few thousand marshalls..
 
To the contrary, the old Hockenheim is certainly not realistic; the old straights have been given back to nature and even a 4x4 will not get you from the stadium to the Ostkurve. What a fantastic bend that was before the chicane ruined it! Check here http://www.circuitso...n-US/hockenheim if you like

 

Sure the cost would be there to redo it, but from a circuit length, safety blah blah blah Hockenheim has to be more realistic that the old Nurburgring.  Segments of the track there can't be adjusted or changed even if you wanted to, nor should they.

 

If the will were there trees would be pulled and new tarmac layed at Hockenheim.

[statman]

My F1 calendar, you say? 

 

Asian leg 1

1. Adelaide, Australia
2. Sentul, Indonesia
3. Sepang, Malaysia
4. Pattaya, Thailand (Biraram circuit)
5. Shanghai, China
6. Buddh, India

European leg 1

1. Jerez, Spain
2. Monte Carlo, Monaco
3. Monza, Italy
4. Magny Cours, France
5. Silverstone, United Kingdom
6. Portimao, Portugal

American leg 1

1. Montreal, Canada
2. Road America, United States
3. Laguna Seca, United States

Euroepan leg 2

 

1. Assen, Netherlands
2. Spa, Belgium
3. Red Bull Ring, Austria
4. Hockenheim, Germany
5. Imola, Italy
6. Budapest, Hungary

Asian leg 2

1. Singapore, Singapore
2. Suzuka, Japan
3. Yeongam, South Korea

American leg 2

1. Mexico City, Mexico
2. Sao Paulo, Brasil

 

Am I right, or am I right. 

 

I would love to see Laguna Seca, even though I think the surroundings (lack of stands etc.) seem always rather boring. Imagine those hills filled with people.

[Hati]

Check here http://www.circuitso...n-US/hockenheim if you like

 

"Initially there were plans to create a shortcut between the first and the third chicane."

 

Why on earth they dropped that idea, it would have been a thousand times better track than current thirteen in a dozen track.

[OO7]

"Initially there were plans to create a shortcut between the first and the third chicane."

 

Why on earth they dropped that idea, it would have been a thousand times better track than current thirteen in a dozen track.

Agreed.  I'm not really a fan of the current layout.

[pingu666]

actually automobalista (pc game) and assetto corsa have alot of the tracks you mention and a selection of notf1carhonest *cough cough* and f1 cars from a bunch of different era's. i had thought of trying automobalista with some 2004ish cars, vs the 2017 ones.

 

if i knew how to edit/make tracks i thought of making hybrid best of tracks, or "historic" tracks with modern kerbs and stuff

 

my silverstone hybrid would use copse-becketts of the modern track with a bunch of the older one... for example

[RacingGreen]

Much as I loved the old Clermont-Ferrand I'm not sure I'd describe it's addition to a modern F1 calendar as realistic as it would need a lot of public roads closed and updated, and of course there is nowhere to put run off areas needed these days on some sections due to the hilly topography.

 

Edit - reading through thread again someone has already said as much.

Edited by RacingGreen, 17 July 2017 - 03:33.

[Atreiu]

1 - Albert Park, I'm fine with it.
2 - Interlagos, fine as well.
3 - Spain, Motorland Aragon, car layout but going straight from turn 12 to 15 https://upload.wikim...gón_FIA.svg.png
4 - Istambul Park, but replace the last 3 corners with a simple slow left hand corner
5 - Monaco
6 - Montreal
7 - Paul Ricard, 1990 layout, short and simple, good for the crowd a nice change from regular 5km tracks. Intense traffic as well.
8 - Silverstone, as is
9 - Hockemheim, go straight from turn 7 to turn 10 https://upload.wikim...eim2012.svg.png
10 - Hungaroring
11 - Spa, recreate 2002 bus stop
12 - Monza, as is
13 - Bahrain, shorter outer layout (only for their money) https://upload.wikim..._Layout.svg.png
14 - Baku
15 - Singapore
16 - Suzuka, as is
17 - Abu Dhabi, turns 5,6 and 7 become simple left hand corner, turns 8 and 9 become quick left right flick, turns 11, 12 and 13 become simple left hand corner (only for their money) https://upload.wikim...-Island.svg.png

 

---

 

edit 1:

 

Perfect calendar with nice mix of circuits old and new, fast and faster, Europe and other continents and no redundancies except for Bahrain and Abu Dhabi, but their money makes up for it.

It's perfectly realistic as well.

You're welcome. 

 

---

 

edit 2:

 

COTA has room for an easy and ridiculous quick fix.

Just make the track go straight from the exit of turn 7 to the exit of turn 9.

It would only become a little faster, but then turn 11 would immediately a much better overtaking spot and force defending drivers into deciding whether to shut the door or try an X.

Another less simple fix would be to demolish and rebuild everuthing between turn 12 and 16 and create a single faster left hand corner before turns 17 and 18.

https://upload.wikim...circuit.svg.png 

Edited by Atreiu, 18 July 2017 - 08:46.

[OO7]

Much as I loved the old Clermont-Ferrand I'm not sure I'd describe it's addition to a modern F1 calendar as realistic as it would need a lot of public roads closed and updated, and of course there is nowhere to put run off areas needed these days on some sections due to the hilly topography.

 

Edit - reading through thread again someone has already said as much.

For 200 million or whatever the cost is for a typical new circuit, I'm sure they could make the necessary changes?

[ArrowsLivery]

I agree COTA would be so much better if it went from turn 12 to turn 16. It's way too micky mouse with that rubbish fake Hockenheim section. 

[RacingGreen]

For 200 million or whatever the cost is for a typical new circuit, I'm sure they could make the necessary changes?

 

Yes but why would anyone spend that sort of money even before having to pay the ridiculous annual licence fees? We know from past experience that GP's in France are financially marginal even at the best of times. 

[AustinF1]

COTA has room for an easy and ridiculous quick fix.

Just make the track go straight from the exit of turn 7 to the exit of turn 9.

It would only become a little faster, but then turn 11 would immediately a much better overtaking spot and force defending drivers into deciding whether to shut the door or try an X.

Another less simple fix would be to demolish and rebuild everuthing between turn 12 and 16 and create a single faster left hand corner before turns 17 and 18.

https://upload.wikim...circuit.svg.png 

I agree a faster version of 7-10 would have been great, as well as some other tweaks that were intended in early versions of the COTA layout, but the FIA wouldn't have it. Hellmund wanted something like that and had it included in earlier versions of the circuit layouts. I've talked about it a lot in the COTA thread. 

 

 

...here is a pic of an earlier layout model we were shown early on at a meeting with COTA reps...In that one you can see a faster T7 - 9 compared to what exists now. Many times when this comes up, people don't believe me, but here you go. T1 was also sharper, with a longer run down to T2, which would have made T2 tighter also, with a faster and more challenging entry. T18 was tighter, in turn making T19 tighter as well, all of which would have likely made for good fun.

That post had several pics but I can only get these two to work now for some reason...

 

 

Here's what I believe was the fastest T7-10 design that I saw (the one I referred to in the Russian GP thread). T8 & 9 are much faster than what you see now, and 15-18 had a faster entry and decreasing radius rather than being slower in and faster out as you see now.

Compare that to the current layout...

 

 

...and then there's this gem.  Apparently Tilke had made a concept of his own and pitched it early on to Hellmund. By all accounts it was pretty much what you'd expect of Tilke. It was clockwise and barely utilized the current T1 hill at all. Here's a glimpse of the part of the track closest to what is now T19, 20, and the main grandstand. 

 

 

Edited by AustinF1, 19 July 2017 - 06:22.

[Rob29]

Please note that Imola is in Italy not San Marino.If Italy got a second race again I think Britain should as well?Maybe it could be called the Jersey GP even if held at Brands Hatch For the future I think it  is in city centre races for electric vehicles.

[RECKLESS]

I would love to see the Finnish GP in the calendar.

In the woods of Kymenlaakso, near the city of Kouvola, we have Kymi Ring which is Grade 1 and could well be up to the task.

 

This would be a long time coming and worth the wait.

[AustinF1]

A crossover version of COTA, something like this, could have been nothing short of brilliant imho... (can't take credit for this idea, tho I wish I could).

 

[OO7]

I agree a faster version of 7-10 would have been great, as well as some other tweaks that were intended in early versions of the COTA layout, but the FIA wouldn't have it. Hellmund wanted something like that and had it included in earlier versions of the circuit layouts. I've talked about it a lot in the COTA thread. 

 

That post had several pics but I can only get these two to work now for some reason...

 

Compare that to the current layout...

 

 

 

The current T2 is better I think.  The planned T3 & T4 looks similar to Maggots, but a little tighter.

[Balnazzard]

Ye I really hope that Finnish GP would finally become reality in the next decade! Its been long time coming, I mean heck so many times we have been asked about it, why Finnish drivers dont have their own home GP

And even though Kymi-Ring profile might not be the most exciting one, It seems still better than many other tracks out there. But again it really comes down to backing from the government as well as does Liberty Media feels like there is room for Finnish GP in the future.

Rest assured, it would most likely be sold out event, and especially so because Kymi-Ring would be the only track in North Europe/Scandinavian region that would fulfill F1 requirements.

Edited by Balnazzard, 19 July 2017 - 08:32.

[Kristian]

I agree a faster version of 7-10 would have been great, as well as some other tweaks that were intended in early versions of the COTA layout, but the FIA wouldn't have it. Hellmund wanted something like that and had it included in earlier versions of the circuit layouts. I've talked about it a lot in the COTA thread. 

 

That post had several pics but I can only get these two to work now for some reason...

 

Compare that to the current layout...

 

 

...and then there's this gem.  Apparently Tilke had made a concept of his own and pitched it early on to Hellmund. By all accounts it was pretty much what you'd expect of Tilke. It was clockwise and barely utilized the current T1 hill at all. Here's a glimpse of the part of the track closest to what is now T19, 20, and the main grandstand. 

 

 

 

I remember reading that the tighter turn 9 was requested by Whiting for homogolation. Maybe that is wrong, but I certainly know that its a waste of what was a great decent fast section, and given how much runoff there is I don't know why they did it. I can live with lots of runoff as long as it means we have great corners, but corners are being emasculated AND being surrounded by a car park. Which is crap. 

[AustinF1]

I remember reading that the tighter turn 9 was requested by Whiting for homogolation. Maybe that is wrong, but I certainly know that its a waste of what was a great decent fast section, and given how much runoff there is I don't know why they did it. I can live with lots of runoff as long as it means we have great corners, but corners are being emasculated AND being surrounded by a car park. Which is crap. 

IIRC it was because of the higher speeds that would have been carried over the top between 9 and 10 where the cars get lighter, and through the off-camber turn 10 and into the braking zone at 11, requiring more runoff at both turns.  Making more runoff at 10 would be difficult given the way the ground falls away from the track there. It sure would have been spectacular though. 10 is a real butt-clenching test of commitment as it is now.

[Balnazzard]

Here is better look at Kymi-Ring that is being built in Finland, the track should be completed next year and its planned to host Moto GP race already next year as well:




 

[Anja]

It looks fun but seems a bit too twisty and narrow for F1 in a lot of places. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see F1 there but I don't think it's very likely. 

[Balnazzard]

It looks fun but seems a bit too twisty and narrow for F1 in a lot of places. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see F1 there but I don't think it's very likely. 

Well its IS Grade 1 FIA track, so it WILL fulfill all the requirements (also safety-wise) for F1 track when its completed . There is no issue whatsoever in there, I think its all about how the new F1 owners think about Finnish GP commercially and if there is any room for it in F1 calendar, as well as how much Finnish Goverment wants to back up the idea, and do they believe it would be financially good thing.

[Kristian]

It looks fun but seems a bit too twisty and narrow for F1 in a lot of places. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see F1 there but I don't think it's very likely. 

 

It feels very much like the Hungaroring (appropriately). And that doesn't do too badly. 

 

The thing is, I can't see Finland stumping up the fees. However, they would be worthy of their place on the calendar given their driving heritage. 

 

Maybe we could have a Scandanavian Grand Prix alternating between Copenhagen and Finland each year?*

 

*Yes I know Finland isn't part of Scandanavia, but Australia is in Eurovision, so.....   

Edited by Kristian, 20 July 2017 - 09:09.

[Izzyeviel]

Could we have the Birmingham Superprix?

[darkkis]

Finnish govenment would rather spend 80 millions on this piece of **** Guggenheim museum (they tried to force it through 3 times or something) than on motor racing, so it's unlikely to happen. And tbh that track is pretty uninspiring based on the simulation at least.