93 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I know this was just a publicity stunt by Renault, but I've only just heard about it and it's really made my day:

https://www.google.c...ry-10789595.amp

[Lee Nicolle]

It was on SpeedCafe here in Oz,, with suggestions she is pairing with Robert Kubica next year for Renault!

Yes it was a stunt in a 'proper' F1 but still a feel good story. And the lady does have a long history in motorsport.

[cpbell]

From the footage, she appeared to enjoy herself!

[ensign14]

Think I'd rather put her in the car than Jolyon.

[Richard Jenkins]

Anyone in the car other than Jolyon would be quicker. Nice story, good to see.

[Vitesse2]

Anyone in the car other than Jolyon would be quicker. Nice story, good to see.

Rather ironic that a rally driver is somewhat better at keeping it on the black bits ...

[Myhinpaa]

What a great story Rosemary and many others proved what great things women can achieve before or without "feminism" ;)

 

Lovely photo at 0:35 of her together with Jim Clark at a rest halt on the '66 RAC btw.

[HistoryFan]

what was the oldest driver in a F1 car before?

 

Heinz Becker was racing a Minardi in the Boss GP in 2006 with 61 years.

[funformula]

Anyone in the car other than Jolyon would be quicker. Nice story, good to see.

Realy???
Feel free to prove better.
The armchairs are full of "drivers" capable of being within a tenth of a second to the pole position time, aren't they?

[Charlieman]

Crikey, the Renault F1 looked less of a handful than the Imps and Asconas.

 

As for Jolyon Palmer, I don't know how quick he is. We know that Huldenberg is the real deal and Palmer was close in a slightly slower car in qualifying yesterday. If I ran that team, though, I'd be worried that his bad luck is contagious.

[wsp77]

A real good news story, and a lovely person.

[john aston]

The sort of sneering about young Jolyon above really doesn't belong here . JP seems a nice guy , quick in GP2 but struggling in F1 . Relatively- no more than  .let me see, Alex Zanardi, Jan Magnussen and Dave Walker did. I think much of the sniping comes from the fact that he has a posh forename and a familiar surname . I wish him the best of luck   - and nobody qualifies an F1 car who lacks an ability I certainly could never aspire to - and I suspect I am not the only untalented plodder on this thread . 

[ensign14]

He was quick in F2, after he had been there for a gazillion years.  Not everyone gets that sort of indulgence.  Just from the British perspective, James Calado in his first F2 year beat Palmer in his second with utter contempt.  And repeated the treatment the following year.

 

Imagine what Calado, Jamie Green, Alex Lynn, Alex Lloyd, even Dean Stoneman could have done given the advantages Palmer Jr had.  And that's just the British drivers. 

 

And yes, I am aware that I could not do better, but that's not the point.  That essentially bans anyone from criticizing politicians, film directors, footballers, NHS trust managers.  What I can say though is that he scored 1 mighty point last year in a car in which his team-mate scored 7.  And this year he has 0 whereas his team-mate has 26.

 

Dave Walker didn't get a second season.  Zanardi didn't get to follow up his Williams season.  Jan Magnussen didn't see out his second.

 

The reason why Palmer gets such pelters is that there are 20 places on the Grand Prix grid and he has his solely because of his name and money.  His talent can't buy him a ride.  And when there are two dozen better drivers scratching around in GT3 or whatever it sticks in the craw.

[kayemod]

The sort of sneering about young Jolyon above really doesn't belong here . JP seems a nice guy , quick in GP2 but struggling in F1 . Relatively- no more than  .let me see, Alex Zanardi, Jan Magnussen and Dave Walker did. I think much of the sniping comes from the fact that he has a posh forename and a familiar surname . I wish him the best of luck   - and nobody qualifies an F1 car who lacks an ability I certainly could never aspire to - and I suspect I am not the only untalented plodder on this thread . 

 

The British are renowned for their sense of fair play. Well, most of the time anyway, and clearly not on forums. Jolyon qualified 11th. The situation was confused by driver penalties, but that means that theye were 9 drivers behind him, and it's hardly his fault that his car suffered a hydraulic leak on the formation lap. Admittedly he hasn't set the World on fire, but although he doesn't look like a future champion, he's some way from being the worst out there, there've been plenty in the past who struggled even to qualify.

[ensign14]

The reason why in the past plenty have struggled to qualify is because there were sometimes 40 cars for 24 places.  Not 20 that are all pretty much guaranteed. 

 

Yes, at Silverstone, his home circuit, Palmer qualified 11th. 

 

His team-mate qualified 6th.

 

The only inter-team battle that had a bigger disparity (not counting Red Bull, for whom Ricciardo had a turbo fail) was at Haas.  Where Grosjean beat his team-mate by 7 places.

 

The same team-mate incidentally who beat Palmer to a pulp on track last season.

 

Hulk has outqualified Palmer 10 times out of 10 this season.  Even Diniz did better against Damon Hill.

 

The question is, if he is not the worst out there, who is?  Ericsson?  Even Stroll grabbed a podium when he had the chance.

 

The brutal fact is Palmer is not good enough and he's keeping much better drivers out of F1, just because of his name and money.  And that is why he gets criticized.  Not his fault, he's not getting the best of luck on track this season, he's obviously intelligent given the way he has improved within formulae over the years, and he's recently changed his style to match Hulk's, but at the moment he's just ballast.

[BRG]

Yes but what has any of that got to do with Rosemary Smith?  Unless you are proposing that she replaces Palmer? 

 

It would make a change from all the BS about Kubica!

[ensign14]

That was how we entered this particular divertissement...

[William Hunt]

I don't like all that driver bashing in the racing comments section which is why I like the Nostalghia board a lot more, sad to see it appear here now with snears towards Jolyon, that really doesn't belong in the Nostalghia section imho. The guy has a tough year, mentally already difficult enough for him without the bashing.

 

What's funny is that in the Nostalghia section we constantly see topics about drivers from the past who for sure weren't as good as Jolyon but since they are from the past those drivers are praised.
There is a topic on Brett Lunger for example, clearly a rich paydriver / journeyman with less talent as Jolyon but no bashing there and lots of respect for Brett and his career.
And that's how I prefer it and how it should be.
I really don't like this negativity.

Edited by William Hunt, 16 July 2017 - 20:49.

[opplock]

An F1 race that took place this afternoon already qualifies as Nostalgia? Surely not. There is more than one thread on RC for people who wish to slag off Palmer Junior. 

[William Hunt]

It's almost like they are vultures in racing comments, it's like they wait every race to see if they can bash someone, it's almost like they enjoy bashing, it makes me sad: I can't stand negativity and always feel an urge to defend the victim of bashing, if you really love the sport you don't participate in such activities imho, every driver deserves respect whether he is quick or not so quick is irrelevant

 

Yesterday someone was calling Palmer the worst British driver ever....clearly an acute lack of knowledge of the sport in racing comments.

Edited by William Hunt, 16 July 2017 - 21:09.

[William Hunt]

back on topic, had anyone here ever heard of Rosemary Smith before?

[garoidb]

back on topic, had anyone here ever heard of Rosemary Smith before?

 

Yes. She was a prominent Irish rally driver in the 70s (and maybe before).

[BRG]

back on topic, had anyone here ever heard of Rosemary Smith before?

Yes, of course.  If you were into rallying from your teens in the UK, you knew about Rosemary, and several other lady rally drivers who were very competitive in those days.

[William Hunt]

I was in to rallying in my teens (the 1980's) but mostly followed WRC (Group B and later Group A), I assume she only participated locally in the UK?

My hero was Henri Toivonen but I think I considered Walter Röhrl the best

Edited by William Hunt, 16 July 2017 - 21:11.

[ensign14]

There is a topic on Brett Lunger for example, clearly a rich paydriver / journeyman with less talent as Jolyon but no bashing there and lots of respect for Brett and his career.
And that's how I prefer it and how it should be.
I really don't like this negativity.

 

Lunger wasn't taking a place that someone else could have - there were another two dozen F1 spots available during his career.  And he had more top tens in worse equipment...
 

[moffspeed]

I was in to rallying in my teens (the 1980's) but mostly followed WRC (Group B and later Group A), I assume she only participated locally in the UK?

My hero was Henri Toivonen but I think I considered Walter Röhrl the best

Ye Gads, no.

 

Rosemary was a serious international rally driver in the 1960's in particular.  Maybe not quite a Mouton (if Gp B floats your boat) but not too far off.  To a certain extent she took the baton from Pat Moss. My first car was a Hillman Imp Sport and I did my best to emulate R.S. and Colin Malkin, albeit usually with disastrous consequences. 

 

Always an elegant lady - but like Anita Taylor (her circuit counterpart) she was seriously quick. Looks like that was a 3 year old Renault that she was driving...perhaps not really giving out 800BHP at Ricard - is she seriously the oldest driver to handle that sort of power ??? 

[Allan Lupton]

back on topic, had anyone here ever heard of Rosemary Smith before?

Not only did we know of her at the time, some of us heard/saw/met her at the Hertfordshire gathering last autumn and she's therefore also the subject of one of Rod Waller's cartoons which we can't see at present.

[Lee Nicolle]

There is a thread here, possibly the women racing drivers where she gets a deal of words. I can remember the name from the 70s, that just reading magazines. Ofcourse a 'glamour girl' is going to get her name mentioned if she does half way well.

[RS2000]

I think I considered Walter Röhrl the best

Well he certainly did...

[Tim Murray]

Among her many successes Rosemary won the 1965 Tulip Rally outright. She also won the Coupe des Dames on many major rallies including the Acropolis and the Alpine. She would have won the Coupe des Dames on the 1966 Monte but fell foul of that year's mass disqualification of British cars.

She spent much of her rally career driving relatively uncompetitive machinery, but in my opinion is definitely worthy of comparison with the likes of Pat Moss, Michèle Mouton, Sylvia Österberg etc.

http://speedqueens.b...-smith.html?m=1

[john aston]

Just like Jill Robinson,  Rosemary  was a very quick  and talented driver in an era where most women in motor sport's only role was to wear minimal clothing  whilst dispensing free fags to teenagers like me (nb 'fags' means cigarettes for any US reader to avoid misundertanding) .  Final word on Jolyon - if fora had existed in 1972 I expect  just the same nasty grumbling would have gone on about Niki Lauda . Jolyon isn't going to be the next Lauda , but even if he's only the next Sam Posey or Nanni Galli  does that matter? And JP gets a drive because someone pays for it - who'd have thought it - wonder if any other driver in F1 history suffered such ignominy ........

Edited by john aston, 17 July 2017 - 06:00.

[Michael Ferner]

Not only did we know of her at the time, some of us heard/saw/met her at the Hertfordshire gathering last autumn and she's therefore also the subject of one of Rod Waller's Cartoons which we can't see at present.

... of which I caught a glimpse during the short film, if I'm not very mistaken!?

[ensign14]

 And JP gets a drive because someone pays for it - who'd have thought it - wonder if any other driver in F1 history suffered such ignominy ........

 

As I said earlier, in the past, if someone bought an F1 drive, it didn't preclude someone else from getting one.  Not least given that entrants could pick and choose races.  Lauda bought a ride at March, which meant that someone else who wanted that drive could just buy a March instead. 

 

Palmer's presence in F1 means someone who deserves it more doesn't get an F1 drive.

 

It is, now, a zero sum equation, in which the factors are vanishingly small.
 

[Lee Nicolle]

Just like Jill Robinson,  Rosemary  was a very quick  and talented driver in an era where most women in motor sport's only role was to wear minimal clothing  whilst dispensing free fags to teenagers like me (nb 'fags' means cigarettes for any US reader to avoid misundertanding) .  Final word on Jolyon - if fora had existed in 1972 I expect  just the same nasty grumbling would have gone on about Niki Lauda . Jolyon isn't going to be the next Lauda , but even if he's only the next Sam Posey or Nanni Galli  does that matter? And JP gets a drive because someone pays for it - who'd have thought it - wonder if any other driver in F1 history suffered such ignominy ........

Currently Palmer is on a finishing record and even quali record better than Alonso!

We really do not know his potential in poor cars.

[Henri Greuter]

Among her many successes Rosemary won the 1965 Tulip Rally outright. She also won the Coupe des Dames on many major rallies including the Acropolis and the Alpine. She would have won the Coupe des Dames on the 1966 Monte but fell foul of that year's mass disqualification of British cars.

She spent much of her rally career driving relatively uncompetitive machinery, but in my opinion is definitely worthy of comparison with the likes of Pat Moss, Michèle Mouton, Sylvia Österberg etc.

http://speedqueens.b...-smith.html?m=1

 

She was also one of the brave who dared to take on the original London-Sydney Marathon in late 1968.

Not exactly an event for the faint hearted.....

 

 

Henri

[Gabrci]

Robert Manzon drove an F1 Gordini at the Marseille Historics (if I remember correctly) in 2010, at the age of 93. However regarding contemporary F1 cars I'm not aware of anyone older.

[D-Type]

Among her many successes Rosemary won the 1965 Tulip Rally outright. She also won the Coupe des Dames on many major rallies including the Acropolis and the Alpine. She would have won the Coupe des Dames on the 1966 Monte but fell foul of that year's mass disqualification of British cars.

She spent much of her rally career driving relatively uncompetitive machinery, but in my opinion is definitely worthy of comparison with the likes of Pat Moss, Michèle Mouton, Sylvia Österberg etc.

http://speedqueens.b...-smith.html?m=1

You live and learn.  I've always thougft that Pat Moss was the only outright winner before Michèle Mouton and the Audi.

Edited by D-Type, 17 July 2017 - 12:25.

[RTH]

She was a very determined and dedicated driver in her time  from the early 1960 to the mid eighties.

She is one of the nicest people you could ever wish to meet with a great sense of humour and a gift for story telling.

 

[RTH]

It is a very great pity she did not get a chance to  do a programme of rallies in a Porsche 911. She said at the time it was rather like driving a really powerful Imp and suited the style she had become accustomed to. With an outright competitive car with full support  she may very well have achieved  really great headline  results.

[LotusElise]

Rosemary was very talented, and adaptable to different cars and events. She never did much circuit racing because she found it boring, but I suspect she could have been extremely competitive if she had wanted to.

 

She is a lovely lady too, really nice to chat to. And surprisingly tall.

[Alan Lewis]

You live and learn.  I've always thougft that Pat Moss was the only outright winner before Michèle Mouton and the Audi.

 

Well, it depends on the level of event, of course, but there's Gilberte Thirion who won the first Tour de Corse...

 

APL

[William Hunt]

one of the best and most talented female drivers from the 1960's and early 1970's was Liège born Belgian Yvette Fontaine

She did rallying as well as touring cars

She was a very good rally driver, she drove an Alfa Romeo for two years and then swithed to a Ford Cortina and a Ford Escort as a driver for Ford Belgium
Fontaine was the Belgian touring car champion in 1969 and 1970  (https://fr.wikipedia...res_de_tourisme)

I think she also won the Belgian rally car championship title but of that I'm not sure off, I would need to check that, in those days Gilbert Staepelaere won most Belgian rally titles

Fontaine certainly was one of the best female drivers ever

In the 1970's there also were several Italian female rally drivers but don't really know the details

In the 1980's Brittain also had an excellent female rally driver with Louise-Aitken Walker, she also did touring cars and sure had talent

 

Then we had Cathy Müller from France, the sister of Yvan Müller, but she was rather slow and Jutta Kleinschmidt from Germany who was succesful at the Dakar rally

Edited by William Hunt, 17 July 2017 - 19:27.

[Thundersports]

Cathy Muller wasn't slow more average she handily links to Jolyons father who she had a clash with and then a rather heated chat afterwards in Touring cars.

Edited by Thundersports, 17 July 2017 - 23:06.

[LotusElise]

You're thinking of Nettan Lindgren.

[Thundersports]

Oh that's right LotusElise Ooooopppsss. If the moderators can delete my post on the basis of being a bit old and daft!

[William Hunt]

Talking about female drivers, in 1975 Alpine entered an all female team in sportscars for Lella Lombardi and the française Marie-Claude Beaumont. They won their class and finished 4th overall at the 1000km of Monza that year. I must admit that I know little more about Miss Beaumont.

Lella turned out to be an excellent sportscar driver, she would win 3 races in the World Championship Makes (Endurance) between '79 & '81 for Osella.

[David Birchall]

I would like to watch this Rosemary Smith video but I find it impossible to get past the advts-literally!  Anybody else have that problem?

[Michael Ferner]

one of the best and most talented female drivers from the 1960's and early 1970's was Liège born Belgian Yvette Fontaine
She did rallying as well as touring cars
She was a very good rally driver, she drove an Alfa Romeo for two years and then swithed to a Ford Cortina and a Ford Escort as a driver for Ford Belgium
Fontaine was the Belgian touring car champion in 1969 and 1970  (https://fr.wikipedia...res_de_tourisme)
I think she also won the Belgian rally car championship title but of that I'm not sure off, I would need to check that, in those days Gilbert Staepelaere won most Belgian rally titles
Fontaine certainly was one of the best female drivers ever
In the 1970's there also were several Italian female rally drivers but don't really know the details

In the 1980's Brittain also had an excellent female rally driver with Louise-Aitken Walker, she also did touring cars and sure had talent
 
Then we had Cathy Müller from France, the sister of Yvan Müller, but she was rather slow and Jutta Kleinschmidt from Germany who was succesful at the Dakar rally

I struggle to see what this post has to do with "Rosemary Smith, F1 driver"...

[Vitesse2]

I would like to watch this Rosemary Smith video but I find it impossible to get past the advts-literally!  Anybody else have that problem?

Like all Mirror Group websites the Record is incredibly advert-heavy and pretty much unusable without an ad blocker. It's on YouTube though ...

 

[Henri Greuter]

Talking about female drivers, in 1975 Alpine entered an all female team in sportscars for Lella Lombardi and the française Marie-Claude Beaumont. They won their class and finished 4th overall at the 1000km of Monza that year. I must admit that I know little more about Miss Beaumont.

Lella turned out to be an excellent sportscar driver, she would win 3 races in the World Championship Makes (Endurance) between '79 & '81 for Osella.

 

 

Marie-Claude Beaumont probably gained more fame as the Renault F1 team spokes(wo)man in the early years of Renault's participation in F1, late '70s early '80's,

 

 

Henri