290 replies to this topic

[mangeliiito]

I think the roll hoop or nose or cockpit sides would have taken the impact and he'd have still walked away.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a GP2 or GP3 crash similar to his a couple of years ago. Could be wrong though.

[potmotr]

I disagree I thi k he could potentially have been more seriously injured

 

But we'll never know.

 

I just find it supremely irritating when almost everyone says 'crash x proved the halo has proved its worth'.

 

It's so ugly, makes what should be the best looking F1 cars in years look hideous.

[PayasYouRace]

Hey guys. This thread is about whether you are still watching F1 since the halo was introduced.

 

There's plenty of other places to discuss how useful it is as a device.

[SophieB]

I’ve been wondering what the likelihood is of people both stopping watching the racing and yet still keeping up with threads on a messageboard dedicated to it all. Seems like this would skew the results of the survey.

[potmotr]

To answer our illustrious hosts: yes I'm still watching F1 even with the wretched and wildly overhyped halo! 

[PayasYouRace]

I’ve been wondering what the likelihood is of people both stopping watching the racing and yet still keeping up with threads on a messageboard dedicated to it all. Seems like this would skew the results of the survey.

 

Certainly from my experience on here, there are plenty who stopped watching F1 and still post regularly, often to complain.

 

Credit to one particular poster who I'm sure posted early in this thread, as soon as Melbourne 2018 came round they completely shut up.

[Pete_f1]

I'm used to it now.

[V8 Fireworks]

I'm used to it now.

 

Me too.

 

I must say the F2 version without a fairing is less bulky and less noticeable, compared to the F1 version.

 

 

Credit to one particular poster who I'm sure posted early in this thread, as soon as Melbourne 2018 came round they completely shut up.

 

I remember laughing very loudly when I first saw the onboard on Friday FP1 at Melbourne...  Bizarrely the very same camera position is still used to this day, albeit the field of view (aim, focal length) of the camera has been tweaked to slightly improve the view (on reflection it appears the camera was reverted to the view used in early 2017).

 

2018 onboard:

 

2019 onboard:

 

 

 As fans I think we are now also used to the idea of looking around the halo to try to spot the apex.  Because it is not as if it even the 2019 version isn't intrusive, it's still very intrusive compared to the 2017 view when it was a lot easier to spot the apex:

 

2017 onboard:

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 09 September 2019 - 17:21.

[potmotr]

 

I must say the F2 version without a fairing is less bulky and less noticeable, compared to the F1 version.

 

 

Still looks like bend scaffolding poles to me! 

[V8 Fireworks]

Still looks like bend scaffolding poles to me! 

 

The halo is a type of roll cage after all.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 09 September 2019 - 17:10.

[Ruusperi]

While I'm sure the halo has been beneficial in a few accidents, I still think it's ugly. Also I'm certain, that if there was no halo at the moment, no driver would refuse to race. Heck, even if they raced in 1960s cars, I'm pretty sure they would able to fill the grid with drivers willing to risk their lives. Some people just don't care about danger (*cough* Isle of Man *cough*).

I'm hopeful that at some point they will replace the halo with a proper canopy or some magical force field. The silliest thing is that even official F1 games are required to have halo. Yes, it's important that the polygon characters made by bytes and bits won't get injured, if you drive Monza the wrong way causing crashes for your Youtube compilation.

Edited by Ruusperi, 09 September 2019 - 17:13.

[SenorSjon]

I bet some accidents also happened because of the halo blocking the view.

[Lights]

Apparently I voted "No, but I hate the Halo" because I wasn't going to stop watching but I certainly didn't love it. But you get used to it.

 

I've fully accepted the halo, partially because I figured: the safer they make the cars, the less they might have to ruin the circuits. And that's more important to me than the halo.

[PayasYouRace]

 The silliest thing is that even official F1 games are required to have halo. Yes, it's important that the polygon characters made by bytes and bits won't get injured, if you drive Monza the wrong way causing crashes for your Youtube compilation.

 

It's not silly at all, because the games are simply being as accurate to real life as they can. If they didn't have a halo, they wouldn't be recreations of the current cars. Virtual drivers don't need helmets either. But it's not silly that the games recreate that.

[HP]

If they have at least a similar safe, but more aesthetic appealing design, I'm all for it. For the sake of safety I can tolerate it.. barely.

[HP]

It's not silly at all, because the games are simply being as accurate to real life as they can. If they didn't have a halo, they wouldn't be recreations of the current cars. Virtual drivers don't need helmets either. But it's not silly that the games recreate that.

And Any decent game should have the option to toogle toggle such controversial stuff. That might please a larger crowd. Those who want it authentic and those that are more concerned about the visuals.

 

So it makes economically sense too. Some people will not buy the game with the Halo in it, and some would not buy it without it.

Edited by HP, 09 September 2019 - 17:39.

[PayasYouRace]

And Any decent game should have the option to toogle toggle such controversial stuff. That might please a larger crowd. Those who want it authentic and those that are more concerned about the visuals.

 

So it makes economically sense too. Some people will not buy the game with the Halo in it, and some would not buy it without it.

 

You can toggle it off to help you see better.

[Ruusperi]

It's not silly at all, because the games are simply being as accurate to real life as they can. If they didn't have a halo, they wouldn't be recreations of the current cars. Virtual drivers don't need helmets either. But it's not silly that the games recreate that.

Most games have "realism" settings, so you can turn various things on and off. Halo should be one them, because it hampers the 2D view. Apparently in Codemasters' game you can "hide" the middle pillar, but not sides. And if the games try to be as accurate as they can, then the damage model should be also realistic. Once again, the polygon driver won't get hurt.

 

EDIT: I'm slow as heck to write. Talking about games is off-topic, so please ignore everything.

Edited by Ruusperi, 09 September 2019 - 17:45.

[P123]

I've softened my anti-halo stance as it isn't as jarringly noticeable as I'd feared, and it does seem to have played a positive role in the outcome of some accidents.

[Tsarwash]

Certainly from my experience on here, there are plenty who stopped watching F1 and still post regularly, often to complain.

 

Credit to one particular poster who I'm sure posted early in this thread, as soon as Melbourne 2018 came round they completely shut up.

When resurrecting this thread, I did check to see if some of the people who said they would stop watching, carried on commenting on current races. Some did, and sadly some no longer comment on races or visit this board.

[TheGoldenStoffel]

Used to have pictures of F1 cars as wallpapers but since the Halo I don't any longer. Same for posters, I have several nice pictures of Formula 1 cars hanging on the wall in my office but I won't add any new ones any more. Not a huge loss ofcourse but I simply don't find them to be the sexy machines they used to be.

[masa90]

I still cannot stand it. It is the first thing I spot.

 

I understand it has function but man they make the cars look bad.

 

I am really dissapointed when saw 2021 concept and the halo looked pretty much the same. Like they gave up on trying to make it better looking. I remember reading it was gonna be bad looking for just a while better looking version is thought. It would been easier to accept if there was something acceptable looking coming up.

 

Also not to be disrespectful, it is bit weird when halo seems to be saving lives with so many crashes these days... There has been few cases where it has been a extra protection sure, but still.

 

If I could, I would make it optional. Let teams run it if they want.

 

I guess it is here to stay and it makes me sad.

 

And yes, I did not stop watching because of it but it still bothers me every race.

[DrArrow]

I bet some accidents also happened because of the halo blocking the view.

 

This is what I also think. Not explicitly by blocking the view, but decreasing overall situational awareness and situational perception (peripheral vision) and how much your brain has to work to go around halo. I would go as far that it has been a factor in the horrible Correa/Hubert crash. Halo takes a lot of peripheral visual space from the driver, where you can have visual stimuli that can warn you of a situation developing in front. 

[pdac]

My issue with the introduction of Halo was solely a concern that, for certain accidents, it might make things worse. Since its introduction I've not seen that. But I have seen incidents in which the Halo may have helped keep the drivers safe. So, yes, my opinion has changed.

 

However, two things I should say:

 

1. I too get irritated when every crash results in a flurry of posts from people saying "if not for Halo, that driver would have been killed". I doubt there have been many, if any, where such a statement would be remotely justified
2. My interest in F1 has waned considerably since its introduction - but that is pretty much down to Sky locking out the TV viewers of the UK and my realisation that there are better things to do with my time.

Edited by pdac, 09 September 2019 - 20:29.

[Otaku]

I still think it's ugly _and_ useless.

[BuddyHolly]

It's not silly at all, because the games are simply being as accurate to real life as they can. If they didn't have a halo, they wouldn't be recreations of the current cars. Virtual drivers don't need helmets either. But it's not silly that the games recreate that.

 

hmm really?  "accurate"?   yet when your car runs out of fuel it potters around the track at 60 mph and never actually stops, doesn't that sort of kill off any realism?

[noikeee]

hmm really? "accurate"? yet when your car runs out of fuel it potters around the track at 60 mph and never actually stops, doesn't that sort of kill off any realism?

Surely it's not the halo's fault that the games are ****?

[goldenboy]

I still think it's ugly _and_ useless.

Do you not think it saved leclerc?

I can think of things a lot more useless.

[loki]

I still think it's ugly _and_ useless.

I’ve thought that about Vettel’s performances as of late...

[Flasheart]

Can it be definitely proven it has saved lives? Not from what we are aware of from the outside.
Can the opposite be proven? Same thing. In that case, I’d say it is absolutely worth having.
When a car has buried in a tyre bundle, or gone over another car, how many of you have wondered, even for a fleeting moment, what the outcome would have been without the halo? Again, worth it.
I’d like to ask Alex Peroni whether he would have preferred to be with, or without it on Saturday.

I had serious misgivings when it was first proposed, and actually preferred the aero screen that Indy are now adapting, but I only occasionally take much notice of it now. It was never going to stop me watching. The sport has bigger problems than that.

As for it causing accidents. The drivers have said it doesn’t really inhibit their view. For years they have had pitot tubes, and antennas directly in front of them anyway.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

The problem with this question is that it's unlikely that anyone will definitely stop watching F1 just because of the halo, unless they're pathologically stubborn, but at the same time the halo can be responsible for a lot of lost viewers.  For example, I can't point to a single reason why I stopped watching NASCAR, but a bunch of them added together did make me stop, after some delay.  I didn't just decide to stop watching NASCAR after some change, it's just that one day it dawned on me that it's a chore to watch it, so I deleted it from my DVR schedule.  It's statistically inevitable that some viewers will be on the margins, so one thing they dislike may be the difference between staying or eventually tuning out.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 10 September 2019 - 03:15.

[SenorSjon]

Do you not think it saved leclerc?

I can think of things a lot more useless.

 

No, the other car hit the halo, but still was far enough from the helmet. Don't forget the helmet can take a beating as well, it is not a leather cap like it used to be.

 

But the incident between Vettel - Stroll - Gasly was just poor visibility all round from the cockpit. Yes, it keeps drivers save, but it is racing through binoculars for the drivers.. 

[Nobody]

No, the other car hit the halo, but still was far enough from the helmet. Don't forget the helmet can take a beating as well, it is not a leather cap like it used to be.

But the incident between Vettel - Stroll - Gasly was just poor visibility all round from the cockpit. Yes, it keeps drivers save, but it is racing through binoculars for the drivers..

With the cheapness size and light weight of cameras and LED screens I'm surprised mirrors are still actual mirrors instead or reversing camera screens. Side mounted cameras with screens in the head protection just next to the drivers helmets would also give better visibility not just of Vettel Stroll type situations but of wheel to wheel racing and positions of cars up alongside eachother.

This could all be mandated easily.

Edited by Nobody, 10 September 2019 - 08:09.

[JeePee]

We were told lies that the Halo would be integrated better into the design of the cars. F2 is even the worst, where it still looks bolted on.

 

That thing is still extremely ugly and I'm not used to it. Onboards and photos of the 2017 season look so, SO much better than todays.

[SenorSjon]

F3, the new 5000 class. The tacked on look only gets worse. I'd accept a sort of open wheel LMP1 more than this.

[Rinehart]

 

We were told lies that the Halo would be integrated better into the design of the cars. F2 is even the worst, where it still looks bolted on.

 

That thing is still extremely ugly and I'm not used to it. Onboards and photos of the 2017 season look so, SO much better than todays.

 

I hate the Halo for what it represents rather than what it looks like, but to be fair I think the Gen 2 Formula E car is the ONLY single seater that has had it integrated into its design from ground up and it looks better, more slopped back and integrated into the overall design. Won't be until 2021 that we see a seemless integration of the Halo in F1. 

[Clatter]

I'm used to it now.

Same here

[cpbell]

 

My issue with the introduction of Halo was solely a concern that, for certain accidents, it might make things worse. Since its introduction I've not seen that. But I have seen incidents in which the Halo may have helped keep the drivers safe. So, yes, my opinion has changed.

 

However, two things I should say:

 

1. I too get irritated when every crash results in a flurry of posts from people saying "if not for Halo, that driver would have been killed". I doubt there have been many, if any, where such a statement would be remotely justified
2. My interest in F1 has waned considerably since its introduction - but that is pretty much down to Sky locking out the TV viewers of the UK and my realisation that there are better things to do with my time.

 

What would it take by way of a crash or post-crash damage to convince you?  I'd argue that going cockpit-first into and almost through a debris fence like the driver in the

F3 race at Monza is a scenario where it's likely that he would have been seriously-injured or possibly killed without it.  You might as well argue that helmets don't do anything because you've never seen conclusive proof that one saved a driver's life.

[cpbell]

No, the other car hit the halo, but still was far enough from the helmet. Don't forget the helmet can take a beating as well, it is not a leather cap like it used to be.

 

But the incident between Vettel - Stroll - Gasly was just poor visibility all round from the cockpit. Yes, it keeps drivers save, but it is racing through binoculars for the drivers.. 

Helmets might be able to take huge impacts, but the driver's neck, even with HANS, is another matter. 

[CoolBreeze]

Still yucks for me. I have collection of cars from the 60s. They stopped since last year with the halo. No more wallpapers for me

[mmmcurry]

I'm pretty much used to it, I still think it's easier on the eyes than the stepped nose and the snowplough front wing / high and narrow rear wing combination.

 

Steve.