30 replies to this topic

[d j fox]

Saw Indycar qualifying and race from Mid Ohio over the weekend and was intrigued to note that the start/ re-start line was in a different place to the finish/lap scoring line. I understand that the separate starting line is on the back straight for safer rolling starts as the finish “straight” is very short. What was even more curious was that the timing line for qualifying was in another completely different place altogether, at the exit of what is called “Thunder Valley” under a footbridge! Cars would finish their hot laps and then dive into the pits.

 

 I have seen references to Brooklands “finishing straight”-was that different to the start line?

Are there any other tracks with different start and finish lines?

 

DJF

[f1steveuk]

Anderstorp used to start on one straight and finish on a different one, for F1 in 1973/74 I think

[B Squared]

Mid-Ohio was first run by Indy Car in 1980; B.J. Swanson's fatal crash in the Bay Racing Lola into the bridge at the start of the 1975 F5000 race was still in mind when Indy Cars started using the circuit.

[djr900]

Although not a Race Circuit , Wimbledon motorcycle Speedway track for several years had a start line and finish line in two different places .

I think it was because the straights were short or something like that,

Wimbledon was unique in that every other speedway track ran 4 lap races, but Wimbledon races were 4 { and a bit extra} lap races

[Vitesse2]

 

 I have seen references to Brooklands “finishing straight”-was that different to the start line?

 

DJF

That would depend on which of the myriad layouts was being used. Most Outer Circuit races, for example, started from the Railway Straight. But in general the answer would be yes; a few races did start from the Finishing Straight, but most of them didn't. They did usually finish there though!

[Vitesse2]

Early Long Beach races also had separate start and finish lines:

 

[ReWind]

Nowadays most tracks have different start and finish lines.

Start line is at the front of the grid, finish line is at or near the back of the grid.

I think in the past (i.e. up to the 1980s or 1990s) most races were flagged where they had been started. Currently that seems to be the exception.

[ChrisJson]

Anderstorp used to start on one straight and finish on a different one, for F1 in 1973/74 I think

No Steve, you´re thinking of the pits.

They were situated half way round the

track but the start and finish were at

the same place.

 

Christer

[B Squared]

Nowadays most tracks have different start and finish lines.
Start line is at the front of the grid, finish line is at or near the back of the grid.
I think in the past (i.e. up to the 1980s or 1990s) most races were flagged where they had been started. Currently that seems to be the exception.

A good point.

[GazChed]

Cadwell Park's short circuit used the start and finish straight from the long circuit only for the start .

At Brooklands the Railway Straight was used as the finishing point for some short races . Great if you happened to be passing on London Waterloo bound train but not so good if you were a spectator stood on the opposite side of the circuit where finishes were all but invisible . Unsurprisingly the idea was soon dropped .

[doc knutsen]

No Steve, you´re thinking of the pits.

They were situated half way round the

track but the start and finish were at

the same place.

 

Christer

Also, the Swedish GP at Anderstorp was run from 1973 up to and including 1978, when the loss of both Ronnie and Gunnar meant the end for that race. Those few years did throw up som notable race results, such as the sole victory for the P34 Tyrrells and for the Brabham-Alfa with the gearbox-driven "cooling aid" fan. And Laffite's Matra-powered drive in 1977 ...we could always expect the unexpected in Småland.

[Ray Bell]

Mount Panorama, Bathurst...

The start line is a couple of hundred yards forward of the finish line. No doubt the product of circumstances where the timekeepers' location was unable to be put in a spot where there was sufficient room for the field to grid up between there and the last corner.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 31 July 2017 - 22:34.

[chr1s]

No Steve, you´re thinking of the pits.

They were situated half way round the

track but the start and finish were at

the same place.

 

Christer

And that half lap from the dummy grid at the pits to the start line is how we ended up with the "warm up lap".

[Thundersports]

Rallycross throws up a couple I know of; Brands Hatchs original track had the start in the normal place then the finish line on the "knife edge". Lydden Hill was another one where the start finish line was roughly half way round the track.

[B Squared]

What was even more curious was that the timing line for qualifying was in another completely different place altogether, at the exit of what is called “Thunder Valley” under a footbridge! Cars would finish their hot laps and then dive into the pits.

You'll find this to be the case with most IndyCar road and street circuits, for the reason stated - finishing the lap and be able to immediately pit is by design.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Nevskoe Koltso (the Neva Ring) in the Soviet Union in 1961-1977: http://www.ussr-auto...koe_koltso.html .

[f1steveuk]

You see, never, NEVER trust your memory!! I shall stand in the corner and think about what I have done!

[Risil]

The Houston track that CART used between 1998 and 2001 started on the longest straight on Austin Street, but had its finish line and pits three blocks southeast on the Avenida de las Americas. Had a pretty odd pit entry too.

[dgs]

The 1983 Belgian Grand Prix was run over 40. 953 laps.

 

Start line was located 662 metres before finish line, giving first lap distance of 7.611km (lap 6.949km + 662 metres)

 

 

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

More than I should really like to admit, a lot of my races 'finished' in T1 of Lap01.  

[Jim Thurman]

Mid-Ohio was first run by Indy Car in 1980; B.J. Swanson's fatal crash in the Bay Racing Lola into the bridge at the start of the 1975 F5000 race was still in mind when Indy Cars started using the circuit.

 

If you post that at another forum, you'll be brusquely told it is factually incorrect and was in no way responsible to the start/finish line being moved.

[TerryS]

Mount Panorama, Bathurst...

The start line is a couple of hundred yards forward of the finish line. No doubt the product of circumstances where the timekeepers' location was unable to be put in a spot where there was sufficient room for the field to grid up between there and the last corner.

I thought the real reason for the Mount Panorama difference was to get the distance for the endurance race as close as possible to 1,000 kms. 6.213km by 161 laps is 1,000.293 kms.

They shortened the race by 2 laps when the Chase was added to keep it at 1,000 kms.

[Teapot]

If i'm not mistaken the finishing line at Magny-Cours was (is?) located few meters after the last corner (Lycee), while the start line was further down the straight.

[7MGTEsup]

If i'm not mistaken the finishing line at Magny-Cours was (is?) located few meters after the last corner (Lycee), while the start line was further down the straight.

 

Hence why Senna span in the last corner in qualifying (1993?) to get a better time as the line was literally on the exit of the corner.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by TerryS
I thought the real reason for the Mount Panorama difference was to get the distance for the endurance race as close as possible to 1,000 kms. 6.213km by 161 laps is 1,000.293 kms.

They shortened the race by 2 laps when the Chase was added to keep it at 1,000 kms.

As far as I know, Terry, the start line has always been up at the end of the pit area and the finish at the start of the pit area.

Photos posted here clearly show this to be the case in the fifties at least, and in the AGP book as well.

[ozpata]

[Allan Lupton]

Gransden Lodge was also used in 1947 and, according to the diagram in Motorsport Explorer, a very different course was used without the start/finish separation.

It used the same long runway but then turned left on to the perimeter track which brought it back to the 1946 start.

[dgs]

The 1983 Belgian Grand Prix was run over 40. 953 laps.

 

Start line was located 662 metres before finish line, giving first lap distance of 7.611km (lap 6.949km + 662 metres)

This race length should be 40.0953 laps, not 40.953 laps

 

I should double check before posting

[timbo]

I was of the understanding that the finish line was to be directly opposite race control, so that if any type of lap timing etc, failed, the chief timekeeper could poke his head out the window, or whatever, and visually see who crossed the line first, and could judge the winner that way. The startline was often moved forward enough to allow the whole grid to form on the start/finish straight.
This poses another question, How many potential close finishes could have been different if the finish line was further down the straight by the startline. I can think of Bathurst in Australia, perhaps Monza and Silverstone overseas, and I'm sure their are many others in different parts of the world.

[PayasYouRace]

The Houston track that CART used between 1998 and 2001 started on the longest straight on Austin Street, but had its finish line and pits three blocks southeast on the Avenida de las Americas. Had a pretty odd pit entry too.

Wasn’t the pit exit ridiculous, snaking round through a car park and joining the track after T2?

[BRG]

Wasn’t the pit exit ridiculous, snaking round through a car park and joining the track after T2?

As I recall, the entire track was ridiculous.  Especially the surface.