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Kubica's journey back to Formula 1 [part 2]


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#1 Risil

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:19

He's still journeying... Where will Robert Kubica be driving in 2018? Or 2019? Or even 2017?

 

Previous thread here: http://forums.autosp...d-title/page-84



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#2 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:22

IMO he clearly was better than Heidfeld because... naaaah, just kidding.



 

Honestly I'd like to see both him and PDR at the grid. Hopefully it's going to be dry during those 3 days.



#3 Graveltrappen

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:33

On the on hand I’d like to see him come back, but on the other hand is he up to it? Guess we’ll soon find out!!

Edited by Graveltrappen, 03 October 2017 - 12:34.


#4 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:37

BBC: "Williams is now picking up the baton [from Renault] with a more targeted testing programme planned as it feels Kubica could be the top-line driver to maximise the potential of its car in 2018."

 

I bet he is! Williams cannot afford to miss this chance.

 

Ladies and gentleman - it is happening! unbelievable! Robert will take this seat - there is no doubt in my mind. 


Edited by Swck81, 03 October 2017 - 12:40.


#5 Domi

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:42

On the on hand I’d like to see him come back, but on the other hand is he up to it? Guess we’ll soon find out!!

 

I will just quote Kubica himself "If I wouldn't be sure I can do it, I would've never came back"


Edited by Domi, 03 October 2017 - 12:43.


#6 SophieB

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:46

I think that Williams should choose Robert Kubica if the data in any way supports it, both for the sheer potential and because I like to think as a team they can relate to the sheer determinism shown by Kubica in dragging himself back to this level. I mean, I recognise F1 is not, and can never be just about sentiment and romanticism and it's probably wise to keep a good driver like di Resta on retainer as back up in case the demands of the modern F1 car are just more than can be overcome by force of will, physio and training, but it seems so cruel now to be this close and for it not to happen.

 

However, as I say, I don't envy them the decision here and I feel bad for whoever doesn't get picked.

 



#7 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:52

I think that Williams should choose Robert Kubica if the data in any way supports it, both for the sheer potential and because I like to think as a team they can relate to the sheer determinism shown by Kubica in dragging himself back to this level. I mean, I recognise F1 is not, and can never be just about sentiment and romanticism and it's probably wise to keep a good driver like di Resta on retainer as back up in case the demands of the modern F1 car are just more than can be overcome by force of will, physio and training, but it seems so cruel now to be this close and for it not to happen.

 

However, as I say, I don't envy them the decision here and I feel bad for whoever doesn't get picked.


I think Sir Frank recognizes all of it, but he has never let emotion cloud his judgment regarding Williams F1 Team and I can't see things being any different this time.


Edited by wingwalker, 03 October 2017 - 12:53.


#8 Nonesuch

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:54

Provided they include various clauses in the contract, I don't see what Williams has to lose by going with Kubica-Stroll and seeing how things work out.

 

It'd be a great story, and nobody would fault them for going back on their choice if it's apparent that Kubica isn't up to it.



#9 EthanM

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:57

I think Sir Frank recognizes all of it, but he has never let emotion cloud his judgment regarding Williams F1 Team and I can't see things being any different this time.

 

Sir Frank's retired, the team is run by Claire and Paddy (in a Patrick Head type role)



#10 Tsarwash

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:05

I'm not up to date. Is it certain that Massa is leaving ? 



#11 MustangSally

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:09

If Renault did see potential in Kubica, which we can assume, did they miss a trick here? Robert was under contract. Could they have let him do a few FP1s? He still could still have been loaned out.

 

In recent interviews, Robert himself appears far less optimistic - or if you like, more realistic - about his chances of a permanent drive than many. But the most important thing for him was to get back to where he was before the accident: a Formula One driver. Just being taken seriously enough to test is quite an achievement.

 

 

I think Sir Frank recognizes all of it, but he has never let emotion cloud his judgment regarding Williams F1 Team and I can't see things being any different this time.

 

I've seen quite a few interviews with SFW. The driver he most admired was Ayrton. Not necessarily for his speed, but for his intelligence and determination. He was quite convinced Senna could have been President of Brazil if he wanted. Kubica obviously has determination in bucketloads and one wonders if SFW might empathise with his ability to overcome physical disabilities.

 

I appreciate Sophie's point about the 'heartbreak decision'. Maybe it's one Renault did not want to countenance? I think you have to give Williams some respect for arranging this test.



#12 EthanM

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:10

I'm not up to date. Is it certain that Massa is leaving ? 

 

nope

 

well technically he has a one year contract, so leaving might be misleading. Bottom line is the non-stroll williams seat is available for 2018, and apparently the candidates for it are Massa, Di Resta Kubica and a possible 4th mystery candidate



#13 EthanM

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:11

If Renault did see potential in Kubica, which we can assume, did they miss a trick here? Robert was under contract. Could they have let him do a few FP1s? He still could still have been loaned out.

 

In recent interviews, Robert himself appears far less optimistic - or if you like, more realistic - about his chances of a permanent drive than many. But the most important thing for him was to get back to where he was before the accident: a Formula One driver. Just being taken seriously enough to test is quite an achievement.

 

 

his problem is he only realistically has one shot. If Williams passes then his chances of ever landing an F1 drive are pretty much 0



#14 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:11

I'm not up to date. Is it certain that Massa is leaving ? 

Nothing is certain. According to recent rumours Williams contenders for Williams seat are Masa, Kubica and Di Resta, and possibly Wehrlein, with Williams officialy confirming they do want to evaluate Kubica. Most recent article on BBC said Kubica is the favourtie to take the steat (assuming his hand is F1-ready) but that really changes on what you're readinng. So it is absolutely not certain Massa is leaving, however it does seem to a lot of people (myself included) that if Williams wanted him to stay they would have signed him already. He also mentioned earlier that he needs to feel like he is welcomed by the team to stay.


Edited by wingwalker, 03 October 2017 - 13:13.


#15 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:17

Dont't know why to rate Di Resta over Massa...



#16 Spillage

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:58

I find both both Massa and Di Resta utterly uninspiring candidates. If Kubica can physically drive the car, I hope he's driving it. But as I say, I don't hold out hope on Williams making the exciting choice.

#17 tghik

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 13:59

All this stuff on here - That it's happening for Kubica and Robert will take the Williams seat this is a man that has not driven competitively for years.

 

I think di Resta has nothing to fear from Kubica in fact bring it on. 

 

I agree only partially, he has nothing to fear, he always has his job with Sky tv. Will be interesting to hear Paul's take on this.

 

This Japanese grand prix will be full of commentary about this in all tv stations. Good times ...


Edited by tghik, 03 October 2017 - 14:03.


#18 SBR

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:01

Please keep Di Resta out of the seat. Decent midfield driver but so booooring...

#19 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:04

Dont't know why to rate Di Resta over Massa...


Money could be an issue.



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#20 maverick69

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:08

Di Resta was red hot in the Jr stuff. Had the better of Vettel on many/most occasions where there was a direct comparison.

 

I get the impression that his personality may have done for him in some circles (albeit, perhaps unfairly)...... A bit like how Pascal "Princess" Wehrline managed to hand over his chance to Ocon....... 

 

But hey. It could all be bollocks........

 

And with RoGrow in the house - you'd have to be really special to get turned down  :smoking:



#21 MustangSally

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:33

No one doubts Massa's talent or experience. His problem is motivation. Last year he retired mentally after Spain - he knew he was going to be dropped - and scored less than half a point per race for the rest of the season. Just a total waste of a seat. His under performing was a large part of Williams losing a WDC place to Force India. 

 

We've seen the same at Ferrari. In a year when Alonso won 5 races, his best finish was 5th. Alonso isn't that brilliant. I'd take a hungry Di Resta over Massa any day. Paul was as fast as Wehrlein in the Hungary qualifying. No practice sessions. No familiarisation. Nix. He won't be trailing around after Stroll like Massa in the last couple of races. 



#22 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:36

I was thinking about "this is my last year" thing, too. There were several cases of drivers underpeforming in their last season in F1, but whether Massa would be in that group is hard to say. His attitude seems to be "i do wan't to be there if they want me to be there", so not exactly F1-hungry, which is obviously understandable.



#23 EthanM

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:37

No one doubts Massa's talent or experience. His problem is motivation. Last year he retired mentally after Spain - he knew he was going to be dropped - and scored less than half a point per race for the rest of the season. Just a total waste of a seat. His under performing was a large part of Williams losing a WDC place to Force India. 

 

We've seen the same at Ferrari. In a year when Alonso won 5 races, his best finish was 5th. Alonso isn't that brilliant. I'd take a hungry Di Resta over Massa any day. Paul was as fast as Wehrlein in the Hungary qualifying. No practice sessions. No familiarisation. Nix. He won't be trailing around after Stroll like Massa in the last couple of races. 

 

 

Yeah but how much say do the Strolls have in what happens? Cause one could argue Massa driving around behind the kid might be perfect.



#24 tghik

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 14:52

Yeah but how much say do the Strolls have in what happens? Cause one could argue Massa driving around behind the kid might be perfect.

Papa Stroll may object with few indirect words here and there, but I doubt he'll want to oppose Paddy and make him unsupportive towards his son, let's say he'll play "politically correct"

 

Is this confirmed officially because everywhere I read it's only cited Mark Hughes as source ?


Edited by tghik, 03 October 2017 - 15:05.


#25 MustangSally

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:15

I was thinking about "this is my last year" thing, too. There were several cases of drivers underpeforming in their last season in F1, but whether Massa would be in that group is hard to say. His attitude seems to be "i do wan't to be there if they want me to be there", so not exactly F1-hungry, which is obviously understandable.

 

Understandable, yes. You know, Button said exactly the same thing about his early decision to retire. He said something like, 'you think it won't make a difference, but it does'. He went on to say that he thought his last six races were rubbish.  :lol:

 

As you say, it seems to affect some drivers and not others. Damon Hill's mid season 'retirement' was a case in point. On the other hand, when Barrichello was in a similar situation at Williams, I never felt he 'wasn't bothering and all' like Massa. And he really did have a rubbish car. 



#26 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:29

I remember thinking David Coulthard is mentally elsewhere during his last season at Red Bull.


Anyone is savvy enough with the regs to know whether Williams could run an adaptation test for either RK or PDR in case in one of them being in the the car for the last GP?


Edited by wingwalker, 03 October 2017 - 15:30.


#27 GhostR

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:47

I remember thinking David Coulthard is mentally elsewhere during his last season at Red Bull.


Anyone is savvy enough with the regs to know whether Williams could run an adaptation test for either RK or PDR in case in one of them being in the the car for the last GP?

 

They could, under certain conditions. 



#28 Domi

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:52

According to Reuters  that claims to have good source the test is not going to be shoot-out between the two.
So it fits with Benson's article


#29 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:57

I cannot understand why people still claim RK is not physically capable of driving modern f1 car, he did 2 test already in F1 machinery, the one in Hungary he managed twice a race distance. He also worked in a simulator for Mercedes and Renault. We went through it in the first thread again and again.

 

Robert is ready. The test will only prove it.

 

According to Roberto Chinchero Italian Sky:

11th October, Silverstone, Kubica's first test

16-17th October, Hungaroring, Kubica drives first day, Di Resta 2nd day

 

In Paddy we trust!


Edited by Swck81, 03 October 2017 - 16:09.


#30 BuddyHolly

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 15:58

I really hope Robert gets the seat, I think it would be good for him, us and ultimately Williams themselves. 



#31 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 16:17

his problem is he only realistically has one shot. If Williams passes then his chances of ever landing an F1 drive are pretty much 0

 

 

People were saying same thing about Kubica's Renault test and here we are  waiting for his Williams test.

 

And before that, 3 months ago, Kubica's chances of landing a seat in F1 were 0.1%


Edited by Swck81, 03 October 2017 - 16:20.


#32 RA2

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 16:47

At Silverstone, will they be using the full course or the Stowe circuit?


RK should have decent knowledge about the show tyres Pirelli will be providing, having already done 2 days on them.

#33 P0inters

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:02

I think that Williams should choose Robert Kubica if the data in any way supports it, both for the sheer potential and because I like to think as a team they can relate to the sheer determinism shown by Kubica in dragging himself back to this level. I mean, I recognise F1 is not, and can never be just about sentiment and romanticism and it's probably wise to keep a good driver like di Resta on retainer as back up in case the demands of the modern F1 car are just more than can be overcome by force of will, physio and training, but it seems so cruel now to be this close and for it not to happen.

 

However, as I say, I don't envy them the decision here and I feel bad for whoever doesn't get picked.

Not to mention the marketing potential . Kubica sells a lot more Williams shirts and bottles of Martini than di Resta . 



#34 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:24

A little look back at Kubica's career (in anticipation of his test):

 

I know, bad choice of music  :lol:



#35 balmybaldwin

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:29

I remember thinking David Coulthard is mentally elsewhere during his last season at Red Bull.


Anyone is savvy enough with the regs to know whether Williams could run an adaptation test for either RK or PDR in case in one of them being in the the car for the last GP?

 

 

They can for RK certainly.... not sure if Di Resta's race this year might rule him out



#36 jstrains

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:44

DIR is so boring driver like his commentating... I hope he does not get the drive.



#37 BRG

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:44

I cannot understand why people still claim RK is not physically capable of driving modern f1 car, he did 2 test already in F1 machinery, the one in Hungary he managed twice a race distance. He also worked in a simulator for Mercedes and Renault. We went through it in the first thread again and again.

And then Renault, after studying those tests and all the data, decided that he wasn't the one for them. Maybe they saw things that you are not prepared to see?



#38 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:46

When it comes to Di Resta I agree with Kimi:



#39 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:47

And then Renault, after studying those tests and all the data, decided that he wasn't the one for them. Maybe they saw things that you are not prepared to see?

 

Or maybe they ran out of time to evaluate him further due to Sainz/Honda/McLaren/STR saga?

 

Kubica had signed short term contract with Renault after the test but he decided to break it so he can pursue other options for 2018. So in a way Kubica was not prepared to wait for Renault's decision for too long.


Edited by Swck81, 03 October 2017 - 17:51.


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#40 tghik

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 17:53

And then Renault, after studying those tests and all the data, decided that he wasn't the one for them. Maybe they saw things that you are not prepared to see?

I think you are not ready to admit there is a different reason why Sainz was selected. Somehow Horner (Kubica drove in his simulator) said that the tests in Hungary were impressive. Then Lowe also is of different opinion to yours.

 

Let them drive and let the best man get the seat. If Kubica wins out, I'm sure they'll want to give him a full race weekend in the current car before the season ends.

Fingers crossed hopefully money will not play a role in the process


Edited by tghik, 03 October 2017 - 18:12.


#41 wingwalker

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:08

They can for RK certainly.... not sure if Di Resta's race this year might rule him out



I'm not sure, actually. The "testing" page on f1.com doesn't have that info and I couldn't find anything in the .pdf files. He already completed something like 2 GP distance in 2017 car, but who knows. It depends on the exact wording in the rules book, I guess. As I said, I think Williams will surely look at the possibility of putting RK in the car at Abu Dhabi under one-race with possible extension contract and getting a free test day to test some 2018 concepts because of that (assuming tests go well, of course).



#42 balmybaldwin

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:21

I for one will def buy Williams kit and a bottle of Martini if Kubica gets the drive :up:



#43 tghik

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:25

So now to have it - di Resta is boring - Kubica will sell more bottles of Martini and more Williams Shirts than the Scot and the Williams drive is in the bag for Kubica.

 

Just for the record.

Scottish F1 drivers have only won 5 driver world championships in the past.   

Kubica will sell more bottles of Martini and more Williams Shirts than the Scot ? Who said that ?

 

Scottish F1 drivers have only won 5 WDC because F1 was there. Different places and different political realities, I don't know what it has to do with anything ?



#44 BRG

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:27

Or maybe they ran out of time to evaluate him further due to Sainz/Honda/McLaren/STR saga?

If they needed more time to evaluate him, he clearly wasn't the obvious driver choice that some here are insisting he was.  Renault weren't convinced.  If they had been, they would have snapped him up.

 

But let's see what Williams decide.  From what I have read here, it is a foregone conclusion.  The fat lady has already sang her aria.



#45 SonGoku

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:31

Di Resta back in the seat, could it be more uninspiring. This is just an example of what's wrong with F1. Not a young gun giving a chance, no let's go with an old fox that proved he wasn't good enough. Please Williams take Robert.


Edited by SonGoku, 03 October 2017 - 18:32.


#46 Swck81

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:34

If they needed more time to evaluate him, he clearly wasn't the obvious driver choice that some here are insisting he was. Renault weren't convinced. If they had been, they would have snapped him up.

But let's see what Williams decide. From what I have read here, it is a foregone conclusion. The fat lady has already sang her aria.


Or this Williams test is just PR exercise as you claimed after first Renault test ;)

That would explain Di Resta presence during the Williams test, he will be there to report about it :)

Edited by Swck81, 03 October 2017 - 18:38.


#47 jstrains

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:40

There is a saying in my country, that he (DIR) is so dull when talking, that even snakes would fall asleep listening to him...



#48 DrProzac

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:47

BBC: "Williams is now picking up the baton [from Renault] with a more targeted testing programme planned as it feels Kubica could be the top-line driver to maximise the potential of its car in 2018."

 

If Kubica is truly their numer one choice to replace Massa already, he must have really impressed them either with hist prior tests for Renault or with simulator tests. Or they simply rate him that high due to his previous time in F1 and believe he should be fit and quick enough to make a proper return. 



#49 Domi

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:49

Anyone who follows Kubica for years knows that he wouldn't put his foot back to f1 car if he didn't be sure he can be at least 99 % of himself from 2010


Edited by Domi, 03 October 2017 - 18:49.


#50 Walsingham

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 18:59

So now to have it - di Resta is boring - Kubica will sell more bottles of Martini and more Williams Shirts than the Scot and the Williams drive is in the bag for Kubica.

 

Just for the record.

Scottish F1 drivers have only won 5 driver world championships in the past.   

So Robert is doomed because no Polish driver ever won F1 championship?