50 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I've just been re-reading the Autosport report on the 1974 Monaco GP by the always excellent Pete Lyons. In it he detailed the problems Graham Hill had had in practice:

Graham Hill's best was a Friday time, as about ten minutes from the end of Saturday the Lola stopped on the circuit. It was in a very dodgy place, inside the new tunnel, and in an effort to get it moving again Graham flagged down the passing [Guy] Edwards [his teammate] and instructed him to bring out a fuel squirter. That delivered, it got the engine going again, but only for a few yards, and the new breakdown point was in an even worse position. The stopped car's presence, as well as that of its driver who continued to work over it despite wheels flashing by within inches, put off several other drivers who were grumpy about it afterwards. But as one of his crewmen said with rueful respect, "There was no way Jake wasn't going to qualify for Monaco!"

I must have read this report at least once before, but it had completely slipped my mind that Graham was ever known as 'Jake'. Does anyone know how he came by this nickname, and how common its usage was?

[BRG]

Jake the peg perhaps?

[Dick Dastardly]

Could it be that early in his career he worked at Speedwell, John Sprinzel's tuning outfit.....and I believe, John was referred to as Jake, maybe Graham was nicknamed likewise?

[Eric Dunsdon]

Back in the 1950's I heard him referred to as 'Wally Grench' which sounds a bit Goon Showish. Never heard 'Jake' though.

[Doug Nye]

Many of his mechanics certainly referred to him as "Watch out, here comes the bastard now..."

 

I appreciate this might not be helpful, but...  

 

DCN

[Charlieman]

Damon Hill wrote his biog a few years ago, and it is a great record of Graham and Damon. If the record is to be re-written, Damon will write it on a few few years. Differently.

[f1steveuk]

Very useful Doug, I have been told by many he was, er, a bit difficult..................................................

[PCC]

Very useful Doug, I have been told by many he was, er, a bit difficult..................................................

My Big Moment with Graham Hill, such as it was, came when I was around ten years old ('71 or '72, I forget which). He was flying into Toronto for the Canadian Grand Prix, and for whatever reason my dad was called upon to collect him at the airport and drive him to his hotel in Oshawa (near Mosport). I occupied the back seat, and was thrilled, terrified  and starstruck all at once. I had a list of questions I had wanted to ask him, but of course I couldn't remember any of them when the time came. In truth, my tongue-tied state was probably partly inspired by his attitude, which I would describe as polite but not even remotely warm or inviting. I mean that simply as an observation, not a criticism. It was in contrast to the response I'd had from drivers such as Bruce McLaren or Mark Donohue, who acted like beloved uncles when asked for an autograph. Such things make deep impressions on the mind of a child.

[RS250]

My Big Moment with Graham Hill took place at the 1969 Oulton Park Gold Cup.
I think he was a bit pissed off at having to use the F2 Lotus 59b as there were no 49s available but I approached anyway, asking for an autograph. He replied "No, **** off!"
Undeterred, I tried again later in the day - this time he spotted me approaching and before I could ask I was told "I've told you once, now **** off!"

[Rob Ryder]

The last few posts just prove that everyone can have an off day .
 
At the 1974 Race Of Champions, after practice, Graham spent a good 45 minutes lifting kids into his Lola, and giving them autographs... and all with at smile.
 

 
Rob

[Doug Nye]

I remember being warned never to approach Graham within an hour of a race, because he would bite your head off.  Outside that time zone he could be affability personified.

 

And when he switched on his public persona he could quite genuinely be extremely entertaining.  However, natural, underlying, warmth was not...perhaps...his real strongpoint.  I think that's either something you develop from childhood - or simply never really develop at all.  That doesn't make you a bad person.  Other factors do that...

 

DCN

[Ray Bell]

He was certainly testy in the BRM days when Stewart started to show him up...

But at his best when wee Jackie busted his gearbox again and NGH won the Grand Prix. The motel/restaurant manager had to tell him to turn his 'affability' down a bit.

Would 'surly' be a good word for his normal demeanour?




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 17 October 2017 - 23:02.

[john aston]

The beautifully written and shrewd account by Damon Hill of his childhood relationship with Graham speaks volumes . An easy enough man to admire . especially by his adoring public, but I suspect a far harder ,man to like. I said the same thing about Frank Williams , I think,   but never about Bruce McLaren.       

[David Lawson]

The lengthy autograph session as shown in post 10 is no doubt because Hill was a team owner with a sponsor to keep happy - nothing wrong in that.

 

I agree with the view in post 13 about Damon Hill's superb autobiography with its extremely honest description of his relationships with his father and mother.

 

A friend of mine once approached Graham Hill as he was putting on his race overalls in the Brabham transporter just a few minutes before a practice session at the 1971 British Grand Prix and he willingly signed my friends programme, he even had to go off and find a pen as my friend didn't have one...

 

Whatever demeanour a race driver displays at a race track is going to vary depending on the situation at the time but motor racing is a serious business at grand prix level so they can't always be sweetness and light.

 

David

[illetas]

As a 14 or 15 year old in the 1960s and a great supporter of Graham, I wrote to him on a few occasions and always received replies and on two occasions he invited me to say hello at Oulton Park (Gold Cup meetings probably).

He was polite, chatty and friendly so Ive got only good memories 

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by john aston
The beautifully written and shrewd account by Damon Hill of his childhood relationship with Graham speaks volumes . An easy enough man to admire . especially by his adoring public, but I suspect a far harder ,man to like. I said the same thing about Frank Williams , I think,   but never about Bruce McLaren.

Do you remember the thread called 'Charmers'?

[opplock]

I pounced on Graham Hill as he was putting on his gloves prior to the preliminary race at Levin in 1969. I shouldn't think he was impressed but he refrained from telling me where to go and I still have the autograph. I found the international drivers were usually prepared to indulge kids with autograph books. JYS even conveyed the impression that it was an honour to be the first to sign my brand new book in 1967. I was only told to **** off (followed by "you little ****") once, by Geoff Perry the NZ motorcycle ace. I still got an autograph as his father recognised me. My dad was Secretary of the club organising motorcycle racing at Levin and handed out the prize money. 

[BRG]

I recall a friend of mine who worked for the BBC approaching Hill at a Brands Hatch F2 race.  I expected the worst as I knew Hill to be irascible immediately before a race and my friend was nothing if not insensitive.  But to my surprise, he said 'Graham, any chance of a chat after the race?' to which Hill responded 'Yes, see you in the Pentagon afterwards'.  Others then tried to interview him and got short shrift of the type mentioned before!  Sure enough after the race, Hill made a beeline to us at the bar and gave an excellent interview, although we did have to buy him a drink.....

[kayemod]

I can think of one possible explanation for the "Jake" handle, some years before he ever sat in a racing car, NGH suffered a badly broken leg after coming off his motorbike. This left it significantly shorter than the other leg. If anyone saw him walking without properly adapted footwear, that could be the reason for a Jake the Peg nickname, he'd have had a noticeably lopsided walk.

 

I never met Graham, but I was in his presence once in the early 70s. He was racing the Lola T370, renamed an Embassy Hill, and was at Specialised Mouldings for a seat fitting. The process then involved lining the tub with polythene, sitting the driver on a second sheet on top of that, and squirting fast setting two part polyurethane foam between the two. When removed the result was a hard lump of shaped foam that a proper fibreglass seat could be made from, and the whole process was being filmed for a TV programme. I was a tall and skinny overalled figure, non-speaking, and just lurking in the background. It was the time before VHS recorders etc, and I’ve never seen the on-screen result, but my mum saw it, and told me I starred...

 

Graham was acting up manically throughout the filming, he had to be the centre of attention all the time, and hardly let anyone else get a word in, I remember his wide-eyed comment as the foam was squirted under him, that “It was finding its way into every nook and cranny!”

 

After Sir Stirling’s near demise and retirement, my interest in F1 waned somewhat, but Graham was always the one I wanted to win. Deep down I probably knew that Jimmy was better, but he wasn’t the one with the charisma. After seeing this performance, I thought a bit less of him though. I understand the pressures he was under, but he seemed to me like a fading personality, trying a bit too desperately to remain in the limelight. I imagine he had his compensating footwear properly sorted by this time, but if I’d seen him limping Jake-like, I’d probably have been rather more sympathetic.

[Tim Murray]

The TV documentary was based around his year racing a Shadow in 1973, so the car would have been the Embassy Racing DN1. Here’s an earlier thread on the documentary:

Graham Hill’s Shadow - the documentary

I well remember Graham’s comments during the seat-moulding, and also the way ‘sausages’ of foam came welling out of the chassis when they were making the deformable structures.

[kayemod]

The TV documentary was based around his year racing a Shadow in 1973, so the car would have been the Embassy Racing DN1.

 

 

Well, that's my skills of F1 car recognition shot to ribbons, but I was quite young at the time. Eric Broadley had been around earlier, and I just connected the two.

[Allan Lupton]

I can think of one possible explanation for the "Jake" handle, some years before he ever sat in a racing car, NGH suffered a badly broken leg after coming off his motorbike. This left it significantly shorter than the other leg. If anyone saw him walking without properly adapted footwear, that could be the reason for a Jake the Peg nickname, he'd have had a noticeably lopsided walk.

I hate to admit it, but I remember the Rolf Harris "Jake the peg" thing and it was about "Jake the Peg/with his extra leg" so not applicable to someone with a gammy leg.

 

It's here if you need to see it:

https://www.youtube....h?v=KJleJbn9G6Y

[Macca]

I don't know that NGH had a shortened leg after his bike crash, only that it was left bandy (from Life At The Limit).

He said that it caused his tailor problems, but nothing about shoes. There is a photo in 'Lotus: The Indianapolis Years' of NGH and Jim Clark where you can see he walked on the outer edge of one shoe.

Bruce Mclaren had a built-up shoe as a result of Perthes Disease.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 19 October 2017 - 09:48.

[Roger Clark]

I have no idea about the origin of Jake but it's probably worth mentioning that Pete Lyons' report of the next race (Swedish Grand Prix) contained a denial from Hill that he was working on his car in the tunnel:

 

"We've discussed this sort of thing", says the GPDA President. "and we've all agreed what to do and with the help of the marshalls I was trying to do it.  It was a bad place to break down and it doesn't help for journalists to listen to stories and not bother to come round and ask me about it."  Point taken: sorry Mr President.  (But it was such a good story).

[kayemod]

I don't know that NGH had a shortened leg after his bike crash, only that it was left bandy (from Life At The Limit).

He said that it caused his tailor problems, but nothing about shoes. There is a photo in 'Lotus: The Indianapolis Years' of NGH and Jim Clark where you can see he walked on the outer edge of one shoe.

Bruce Mclaren had a built-up shoe as a result of Perthes Disease.

Paul M

 

Alan is taking all this too literally, the crucial aspect here is not the number of legs, but having a funny walk. I share one aspect of both Graham Hill and Bruce McLaren's physique, I have a significally shortened right leg. To counteract this, I have to have my right shoes expensively altered, and this lets me walk in a normal manner, really nothing much noticeable about it at all. Graham and Bruce both wore altered shoes, but in racing gear, that wouldn't be possible, though it would cause no problems at all in the car when driving, I doubt if they would need anything obvious like altered pedals. I limp badly when walking around my home in slippers, and Graham and Bruce would have a similarly awkward gait when walking around the paddock or in the pit lane in their racing gear. I'm pretty sure that this sorts out the Jake question, though no-one has ever called me Jake, not to my face anyway.

[Roger Clark]

I think some here would have known about it if the Jake nickname was in anything approaching widespread use.  I've also never heard of anybody with a bad leg being called Jake after the Rolf Harris song.

 

If the nickname was used, it could also be a reference to the singer-songwriter Jake Thackray, whose lugubrious delivery and often bawdy songs were not dissimilar to Hill's public persona.  Jake Thackeray was quite popular at the time, and still is with some of us.

[kayemod]

 

If the nickname was used, it could also be a reference to the singer-songwriter Jake Thackray, whose lugubrious delivery and often bawdy songs were not dissimilar to Hill's public persona.  Jake Thackeray was quite popular at the time, and still is with some of us.

 

♫ "...bloody funny nun you are..." ♫

 

Doesn't work without the northern accent though, so I still think the funny walk theory is far more likely.

[cpbell]

I can think of one possible explanation for the "Jake" handle, some years before he ever sat in a racing car, NGH suffered a badly broken leg after coming off his motorbike. This left it significantly shorter than the other leg. If anyone saw him walking without properly adapted footwear, that could be the reason for a Jake the Peg nickname, he'd have had a noticeably lopsided walk.

 

I never met Graham, but I was in his presence once in the early 70s. He was racing the Lola T370, renamed an Embassy Hill, and was at Specialised Mouldings for a seat fitting. The process then involved lining the tub with polythene, sitting the driver on a second sheet on top of that, and squirting fast setting two part polyurethane foam between the two. When removed the result was a hard lump of shaped foam that a proper fibreglass seat could be made from, and the whole process was being filmed for a TV programme. I was a tall and skinny overalled figure, non-speaking, and just lurking in the background. It was the time before VHS recorders etc, and I’ve never seen the on-screen result, but my mum saw it, and told me I starred...

 

Graham was acting up manically throughout the filming, he had to be the centre of attention all the time, and hardly let anyone else get a word in, I remember his wide-eyed comment as the foam was squirted under him, that “It was finding its way into every nook and cranny!”

 

After Sir Stirling’s near demise and retirement, my interest in F1 waned somewhat, but Graham was always the one I wanted to win. Deep down I probably knew that Jimmy was better, but he wasn’t the one with the charisma. After seeing this performance, I thought a bit less of him though. I understand the pressures he was under, but he seemed to me like a fading personality, trying a bit too desperately to remain in the limelight. I imagine he had his compensating footwear properly sorted by this time, but if I’d seen him limping Jake-like, I’d probably have been rather more sympathetic.

I'm sure I saw a clip of that somewhere, but whether it was online or in the programme they did the other year with personalities driving or riding the machinery their heroes had, and, inmost cases, meeting them, I cannot recall.  I'd not heard that NGH had one leg shorter than the other, though - something I have in common with him, though mine results from a disability that prevents me from walking,so I don't have to have footwear modification. 

Edited by cpbell, 19 October 2017 - 15:59.

[Glengavel]

There was a John Wayne film, 'Big Jake', that was released 1971. Perhaps Graham's walk was similar to The Duke's?

[Rob Miller]

I recon his attitude could sometimes be a bit like Jake LaMotta, boxer and standup comedian.

[Odseybod]

Or Black Jake in Captain Pugwash?

 

No need to mention Seaman Staines or Roger the Cabin Boy ....

[Vitesse2]

Or Black Jake in Captain Pugwash?

 

No need to mention Seaman Staines or Roger the Cabin Boy ....

Indeed not. Because both are urban myths.

[Odseybod]

Just wondered who would bite

[LotusElise]

Nicknames come about in the strangest of ways. All that had to have happened was for a mechanic or someone to call Graham Jake accidentally, and it could have stuck. Especially if he got cross about it.

[Glengavel]

Just wondered who would bite

 

John Ryan's lawyers I shouldn't wonder (although he passed away some years ago).

[Michael Ferner]

Nicknames come about in the strangest of ways. All that had to have happened was for a mechanic or someone to call Graham Jake accidentally, and it could have stuck. Especially if he got cross about it.

^^ That. Also, I recall that Niki Lauda called Clay Regazzoni "Jakob" at the time, which is the German version of Jake. Pure coincidence, I'm sure, and I don't recall the reason, other than it being something odd.

[Gabrci]

^^ That. Also, I recall that Niki Lauda called Clay Regazzoni "Jakob" at the time, which is the German version of Jake. Pure coincidence, I'm sure, and I don't recall the reason, other than it being something odd.

 

Could have come from Gianclaudio as it kind of sounds similar? Certainly more similar than Graham and Jake

[Michael Ferner]

Giacomo is the usual Italian form of Jakob/Jacob. Gianclaudio translates to Johnannes/Hans Claudius in German (uncommon), Jean-Claude in French or John Claude in English.

[Peter Morley]

Wasn't Jake the Peg a reference to a middle leg (at least when being used by mechanics rather than a dubious artist).

A moniker that would be applied to someone who was "popular with the ladies"...

[MCS]

Did he perform a "Jake the Peg" routine at one of the Doghouse Owners Club get togethers at the Park Lane Hilton in the late sixties / early seventies?

 

Hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

[Doug Nye]

Forgive me a diversion - Mention of Clay Regazzoni being addressed as 'Jakob' reminds me that Mr Ferrari nicknamed Niki Lauda 'Ebreo' during money negotiations...  

 

DCN

[Henk Vasmel]

For those who cannot translate this, it is Italian for "Hebrew" or Jew.

[ensign14]

While we are on this tangent, I only recently found out that the French name Elie (as in Bayol) is the Gallic equivalent of Elijah. 

[Glengavel]

Forgive me a diversion - Mention of Clay Regazzoni being addressed as 'Jakob' reminds me that Mr Ferrari nicknamed Niki Lauda 'Ebreo' during money negotiations...  

 

DCN

 

 

For those who cannot translate this, it is Italian for "Hebrew" or Jew.

 

Pots and kettles; I don't think anyone ever nicknamed Enzo Ferrari 'Mr Generosity'...

[LotusElise]

While we are on this tangent, I only recently found out that the French name Elie (as in Bayol) is the Gallic equivalent of Elijah. 

 

Elio and Helio are the same name too.

 

Elie sometimes gets written with an extra "l", which can prove confusing when I'm researching for Speedqueens. I have the same problem with Pat, Jackie, Jody, Jo, Dominique, Vivian and Lilian when I've only got a name to go on. There are a lot of unisex names in motorsport.

[ensign14]

Heh, I assumed Helio was short for Helios.  Where the Hades is there an h at the start of Elijah?

[Tim Murray]

Presumably this also applies to Ilya? (Although I do recall that in one of the broadcast versions of War and Peace they chose to anglicise Count Ilya Rostov’s first name to ‘Elias’, which annoyed me.)

[LotusElise]

Heh, I assumed Helio was short for Helios.  Where the Hades is there an h at the start of Elijah?

 

Brazil? If the h sound at the start of Helio's name was meant to be voiced, it'd be written Relio. Name spellings are pretty freestyle in Brazil anyway.

 

It's the same thing as Hannibal/Annibale and Hector/Ettore. Not all languages use the h sound.

[ensign14]

No, but it's easier and commoner linguistically to drop an h than add one (hence Hector/Ector and, indeed, many modern dialects)...pretty much the only reason English has an h sound is as the result of a softening of a k (canis/hound; centum/hundred).

[Macca]

Returning to the subject; perhaps ask Ian Flux, or Alan Turner if he is still around.

Paul M