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VW to return to Pikes Peak with an EV


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#51 Ben1445

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 21:09

It's just a render. Let's wait and see if the real thing looks even remotely like it.

Aaaalways the cynic.

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#52 Vielleicht

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 23:00

There's still a good chance it will look pretty similar.

 

This was the teaser picture from last autumn.

76ed88c8aa2783b701073e53709e33ac.jpg

 

These are the renders from yesterday.

eV2.jpg

EV1.jpg

It's due to start testing in France in the coming weeks, so would be odd to release something that will become drastically different this late on. The futuristic styling design matches VWs future ID branded cars, so it's safe to assume they'll keep that for marketing reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if it looks more or less as these recent shots, just perhaps with a little more detailed design work.



#53 Pascal

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 23:09

It's due to start testing in France in the coming weeks

I assume they'll commandeer the road leading to the top of Mont Ventoux, just like Peugeot did when testing the 208 Turbo 16 Pikes Peak.

#54 TF110

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 05:19

I think it'll look mostly the same. The previous image was just a shadowy image showing the shape. This looks like a near finished design.

#55 BRG

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 19:39

Aaaalways the cynic.

Right.  So you think it will have a totally opaque screen running all the way round the cockpit so that the driver can't see out?  And that it will have no doors or any way for the driver to get in?

 

I have seen so many artists impressions of cars, buildings, bridges, ships, aircraft, trains etc over the years and they almost never look much like the real thing when it finally appears. Mainly because the artist can ignore physics and dynamics and make a pretty picture, but the poor engineer has to make the damned thing work.


Edited by BRG, 21 March 2018 - 19:40.


#56 Ben1445

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 19:58

Right.  So you think it will have a totally opaque screen running all the way round the cockpit so that the driver can't see out?  And that it will have no doors or any way for the driver to get in?

 

I have seen so many artists impressions of cars, buildings, bridges, ships, aircraft, trains etc over the years and they almost never look much like the real thing when it finally appears. Mainly because the artist can ignore physics and dynamics and make a pretty picture, but the poor engineer has to make the damned thing work.

Well basically I expect it to look like the render but with a non-opaque windscreen, and some doors and any other little fasteners, access panels or little devices along with, presumably, a simple livery of some sort. So basically the detailed design work. 

 

From what we have seen so far and from the timelines of the project, do I expect a vehicle that looks nothing like those renders? No. No I do not. Because I am not a cynic. I hope for the best and merely dust myself off when I am wrong. Its great - you should try it. 



#57 TF110

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 04:26

Shouldn't be hard to add doors or a door and have it look the same. Of course body panel seams, lower window tint and all that will be there too, but as it is in that picture I think is 90% of what we'll see, at least I hope so.



#58 Kalmake

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:30

Roof+screen are probably flimsy and lift off. They even drew a seam on the roof.

 

Example:



#59 BRG

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 19:13

Because I am not a cynic. I hope for the best and merely dust myself off when I am wrong. Its great - you should try it. 

I am sorry for you.  You  must be confronted with so many disappointments in life  when things don't turn out all peachy like you had hoped. ):

 

I, on the other hand, have lived a life full of wonderful surprises, when things turned out to be much better than I had expected. :D

 

I am sure that the VW EV will be fine in real life and will be great at the Peak, but I will not be disappointed when it turns out to look rather different to this glammed up, stylised image. 



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#60 TF110

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 02:52

I don't know why it would be so different to the images released. It's not like there's much that needs to be changed. Pretty much anything goes at Pikes Peak in the unlimited classes.

#61 Tsarwash

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:18

I think it'll look mostly the same. The previous image was just a shadowy image showing the shape. This looks like a near finished design.

The front and rear wings are quite different from the silhouette shot to the coloured renders on the road. The front wing protrudes much more to the sides on the silhouette, and the rear wing is a completely different shape. Different models. 



#62 TF110

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:24

The front and rear wings are quite different from the silhouette shot to the coloured renders on the road. The front wing protrudes much more to the sides on the silhouette, and the rear wing is a completely different shape. Different models. 

I know that, but the new render looks like a nearly finished model not just a blacked out silhouette shot. I like it and hope it remains the same.



#63 Tsarwash

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:29

well the renders do look great, so if the final car looks like that then it will be good.


Edited by Tsarwash, 23 March 2018 - 05:30.


#64 Vielleicht

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:01

Here she is in the flesh

VWPikesPeak1.jpg



#65 Vielleicht

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:06

e-racing365's article

http://e-racing365.c...kes-peak-entry/

 

"The I.D. R Pikes Peak can accelerate 0 to 62 mph in 2.25 seconds, faster than a Formula 1 or Formula E car, and has two electric motors producing 500 kW of power."



#66 Vielleicht

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:18

DbZoOXVU8AAz0JO.jpg

 

Reveal event video

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ZkKzVNNbzXKv



#67 Ben1445

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:18

Those headlights are  :love:

 

(ok so they're stickers this beauty but it's the design style VW will use on the ID range) 


Edited by Ben1445, 22 April 2018 - 18:20.


#68 maverick69

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:32

What a cool car.

 

Looks like they've incorporated most of the "unlimited" tricks  :up:



#69 Jeeves

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:38

Here she is in the flesh

 

I wish WEC LMP's would look like that! Bar the sheet metal rear wing support, that is one awesome looking race car.



#70 Ben1445

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:40

DbaBHVEU0AAZSru.jpg

Looks like a current spec Formula E steering wheel to me (?)


Edited by Ben1445, 22 April 2018 - 18:46.


#71 maverick69

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 18:56

I wish WEC LMP's would look like that! Bar the sheet metal rear wing support, that is one awesome looking race car.

 

Looks a bit crude in that area. But having the underside of the wing uninterrupted is proven to be massively beneficial (took a while.......).

 

Defo agree how that is how the WEC cars should look. The Peugeot 905, Mercs, Lolas, Porkers and Jags were just pure art.

 

The huge fin on the back of the cars now is just horrific.



#72 TF110

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 19:26

The car looks good. Really aggressive too. Makes the record Porsche 919 look mundane even. Can't wait to see what this thing can do. I also agree that lmp1 should look like this. I said that from the renderings!

Edited by TF110, 22 April 2018 - 19:28.


#73 maverick69

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 19:33

I also love the fact that they've gone for full blown ground effects.

 

That floor looks like it'd suck a golfball through a garden hose.

 

I also think that the Porsche run at Spa was a bit of testing for this concept.


Edited by maverick69, 22 April 2018 - 19:41.


#74 Vielleicht

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 19:50

Defo agree how that is how the WEC cars should look. The Peugeot 905, Mercs, Lolas, Porkers and Jags were just pure art.

Now you mention it, this car does remind me a little of the early version of the 905

peugot_905_1.jpg



#75 BRG

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 19:51

The car looks good. Really aggressive too. Makes the record Porsche 919 look mundane even. Can't wait to see what this thing can do. I also agree that lmp1 should look like this. I said that from the renderings!

 

I also love the fact that they've gone for full blown ground effects.

 

That floor looks like it'd suck a golfball through a garden hose.

 

I also think that the Porsche run at Spa was a bit of testing for this concept.

Let's not forget that this car has been designed for one very specific purpose.  A short(ish) dash up a mountain where downforce is vital becuase of the many corners but high top speed is not a consideration as there is no Mulsanne or even Kemmelstraight on the Peak.  So comparison with LMPs is apples and oranges.  



#76 Stephane

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 20:01

Since the top is all-tarmac, the cars are looking less like GroupB rallycars and more like LMP cars. It's not bad or good, just different.



#77 Ben1445

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 20:19

Let's not forget that this car has been designed for one very specific purpose.  A short(ish) dash up a mountain where downforce is vital becuase of the many corners but high top speed is not a consideration as there is no Mulsanne or even Kemmelstraight on the Peak.  So comparison with LMPs is apples and oranges.  

Considering it is also designed to take design cues from VW's (future) ID range it's slightly more to comparable to DPi than LMPs. 

 

But then it is also perfectly reasonable to want LMPs to look like DPi cars... 



#78 Ali_G

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 22:15

The car looks good. Really aggressive too. Makes the record Porsche 919 look mundane even. Can't wait to see what this thing can do. I also agree that lmp1 should look like this. I said that from the renderings!


People said that LMP cars became ugly due to advanced aerodynamic knowledge.

This and the updated 919 show otherwise. It’s the LMP regs which make them ugly.

#79 TF110

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 22:46

Let's not forget that this car has been designed for one very specific purpose.  A short(ish) dash up a mountain where downforce is vital becuase of the many corners but high top speed is not a consideration as there is no Mulsanne or even Kemmelstraight on the Peak.  So comparison with LMPs is apples and oranges.

That's more of gearing, power output and ultimate downforce. The 919 record car had close to the same things as this car but has a combustion engine and 7 forward gears is designed for track racing. Pikes Peak has no long straights with the need for 200+mph speeds. Nor does it need a battery that combines with an engine. So this all electric car has big output from the battery and super high downforce, nothing too different from an all out lmp, just electric and geared properly for a hillclimb.

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#80 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:10

Has anyone seen a battery spec for this car?

 

9 minutes at 500kW with 70% full throttle is 9min/60min/h*500kW*0.7 = 52.5kWh. According to the eracing link 20% will come from regeneration during braking, so ~42kWh should be the minimum usable battery size. I wonder if that "small" battery - compared to a Tesla -  is the better solution for this hillclimb where you have to lift the car up by 1500m.



#81 TF110

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:27

I guess they went that small for weight. Still puts out a good amount of power and since regenerative braking adds some charge back to the battery, they went with a solution that wasn't 'too big'. You have to think about cooling too and all that which goes with bigger or more powerful battery packs.



#82 Vielleicht

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:13

DbZgJChX0AEGHUl.jpg



#83 maverick69

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:55

I bet that car will absolutely spank the record (weather permitting).

 

Still not keen on full electrical power. Sounds like a Benny Hill milkfloat.

 

Then again - things will and must change.

 

One of my mates down the pub is sticking an electric motor in a Mazda RX8.

 

Then again - he'll probably get his money back in oil usage alone! And no tax!



#84 learningtobelost

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:49

One of my mates down the pub is sticking an electric motor in a Mazda RX8.

 

Then again - he'll probably get his money back in oil usage alone! And no tax!

 

They say there's a fine line between madness and genius. 

 

The car looks absolutely fantastic. Let's hope this attempt is successful, and commands plenty of positive press - something that VAG, motorsports and, well, the planet could probably do with! 



#85 Vielleicht

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:57

I bet that car will absolutely spank the record (weather permitting).

Still not keen on full electrical power. Sounds like a Benny Hill milkfloat.

Then again - things will and must change.

One of my mates down the pub is sticking an electric motor in a Mazda RX8.

Then again - he'll probably get his money back in oil usage alone! And no tax!


Given that there is less than a minute between the overall and EV records, it will be facsinating to see where they lie between the two. I still don't think the all out record is impossible, if on the unlikely side.

As for the RX8, I wouldn't be surprised if retrofitting like that becomes a very common hobby in coming years

#86 Cornholio

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 14:16

Looks good and interested to see how it goes, to be honest I find it a shame that there isn't really any sort of racing series catering to these sort of no-holds-barred machines that often run at Pikes Peak, especially in the modern climate of massive standardisation it would stick out like a sore thumb (in a good way).

 

I know, probably not sustainable etc. I can dream though.


Edited by Cornholio, 23 April 2018 - 14:16.


#87 maverick69

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 14:37

Looks good and interested to see how it goes, to be honest I find it a shame that there isn't really any sort of racing series catering to these sort of no-holds-barred machines that often run at Pikes Peak, especially in the modern climate of massive standardisation it would stick out like a sore thumb (in a good way).

 

I know, probably not sustainable etc. I can dream though.

A global "Can-Am" or F5000 would be good.

 

I know they're having a good go at it down under - but I'd defo take a weekend off and pay a few quid to see unlimited cars around Brands Hatch or Silverstone for example.

 

I remember Silverstone in 2007. Seeing those Lola T70's hammering it into bridge was mental. Sounded like the devil having a shart. Better than the F1 race TBH.



#88 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 14:58

If building a <once unimaginable technology> was feasible it would’ve been done a long time ago.


Sorry, terrible fallacy of thought. It hasn't been done yet therefore it never will? I bet people like you were shouting on the sidelines at the Wright brothers maiden flight saying "da Vinci couldn't do it, neither can you!".

Current battery technology IS good enough for regular transport. It is good enough to beat any IC over a short time/distance. An F1 car probably can't be beaten by an EV over a GP distance yet but it is feasible, it'll only take a couple fold increase in energy density to do so. Batteries that can do this have been hypothesized already just not monetized therefore havnt reached production.

It's a when rather than if question, of that much I am certain .

#89 pdac

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 15:09

Sorry, terrible fallacy of thought. It hasn't been done yet therefore it never will? I bet people like you were shouting on the sidelines at the Wright brothers maiden flight saying "da Vinci couldn't do it, neither can you!".

Current battery technology IS good enough for regular transport. It is good enough to beat any IC over a short time/distance. An F1 car probably can't be beaten by an EV over a GP distance yet but it is feasible, it'll only take a couple fold increase in energy density to do so. Batteries that can do this have been hypothesized already just not monetized therefore havnt reached production.

It's a when rather than if question, of that much I am certain .

 

Nuclear fusion has not just been hypothesized but proven, yet I don't imagine I will see a fusion reactor powering anything of use in my lifetime. I don't expect batteries to go significantly further than they are now for quite some time either. Once you discover a new method for something, then you can improve rapidly. Once you reach the limits of that method and start to look for a new one, it can come quickly or it might be very very slow in coming.



#90 Vielleicht

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 17:36

I don't really really want to get too bogged down with what will or will not happen with EV technology. But yes, they are already way more feasible now than they were 5 years ago, which is really cool to see.

We just have the problem that we need to stop using fossil fuels and fast - and this is just one of the possible solutions to that problem. Maybe EVs will improve a lot or maybe they won't. The only travesty would be to not try to move on towards a sustainable future.

Edited by Vielleicht, 23 April 2018 - 17:36.


#91 pierrep

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 18:49

cool thing about electricity, doesn't give a **** about altitude. and instant torque on corner exit. recipe for a great result.



#92 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 18:57

If you haven't seen Loeb's record run...

 



#93 maverick69

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 19:40

If you haven't seen Loeb's record run...

 

 

That is just mental. What commitment.

 

But I have to say that Ari Vatanen's "climb dance" was better - as he has to deal with different surfaces, less safety..... and a whole load of boost arriving at once.



#94 Vielleicht

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:22

Oh go on then, have another

DbeFzPPWAAEErzD.jpg

From on track testing



#95 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:28

Such a cool looking car. My inner 10 year old approves.



#96 Disgrace

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 16:46

What a beast. I wonder if it might look even better without the cartoon wing.



#97 TF110

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 16:58

It looks like it's not quite as wide as an lmp1, excluding the extended splitter and side skirts. I would guess it's body/track is about 1700,1800mm wide but the vehicle itself is said to be 5.2m in length according to their press. Here's a little video

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=dCmEPf8-ck8


Edited by TF110, 24 April 2018 - 17:00.


#98 noikeee

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 17:03

Nice spaceship.



#99 Nathan

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 18:23

Is this a child of the 919?



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#100 Nytelotus

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:43

15245901325705_zpsvt6n5dqz.jpg


Edited by Nytelotus, 27 April 2018 - 09:52.