82 replies to this topic

[Tstag]

I was just reading the Lewis Hamilton thread (now closed) and don't want this thread to debate whether or not kneeling during an anthem is right or wrong. There is a time and a place for that and it's not here!

No my question is whether we need national anthems in F1 or Sport in general. In F1 what is the point of the national anthem? As a motorsport fan I'm interested in where a car is made, who the manufacturer is and to some extent the nationality of the driver. But I don't really feel a need to hear the national anthem of any country. Its not like Mercedes win a Grand Prix because they are a German car company. The car is made in the UK and the team is international but perhaps mostly British so actually playing the German national anthem doesn't even make sense. At one time Ferrari were making cars in the UK as well but we still listened to the Italian national anthem. It makes no sense at all.

F1 is a global sport when it visits Brazil we hear the Brazilian national anthem. But what for? Do Brazilians need to hear it to feel Brazilian?

When a driver wins a GP you hear the national anthem of their country. Again is it really needed in this day and age?

Don't get me wrong I'm a proud Brit and in some sports like the Olympics it might be relevant but in F1 do we really need it? If we want to depoliticise Sport is this the place to start?

[V8 Fireworks]

Well not really, it is kind of irrelevant.  It seems to be there for tradition.  In other motor racing they just go onto the podium without any anthems being played. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 21 October 2017 - 14:01.

[Jellyfishcake]

When a driver wins a GP you hear the national anthem of their country. Again is it really needed in this day and age?

Don't get me wrong I'm a proud Brit and in some sports like the Olympics it might be relevant but in F1 do we really need it? If we want to depoliticise Sport is this the place to start?

 

In terms of when they win a race I like national anthem as part of the ceremony, I don't see why it is that much less relevant here than in the Olympics anyway.  

 

The national anthem of the host race is alright, but the whole standing in a line for it is a little bit too showy for my liking.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

How about playing drivers' favorite music on the podium 

[Ivanhoe]

How about playing drivers' favorite music on the podium 

That's more for dart players

[Lights]

That's more for dart players

 

Yes, or boxers.

[Risil]

I don't really see the problem. It's an act of courtesy to the hosts.

Opinions on the relevance of national allegiances differ, but even in this day and age citizenship, which is tied to one state or another, really does matter.

I've always got a buzz from hearing a new or unfamiliar national anthem or flag on the podium, but that's me.

[f1paul]

I think we do need national anthems. When a driver gets his 1st win or 1st WDC it's when the national anthem is playing when we often see the emotion on the face of the driver. It's something that just seems right and it would be wrong to get rid of it. 

[maximilian]

The notion of nation-states is long obsolete, and as such, so are national anthems.  Certainly playing the anthem for winning constructor is basically nonsense, given the global effort behind most of the teams/engines/technology, and the often convoluted ownership/licensing - i.e. Red Bull being an Austrian team, Force India, etc. - might as well scrap that part.  It would probably make more sense to display the logos/banners of the main sponsors of the team, instead.

 

As long as we'll have the "Grand Prix of <insert country here>" I guess it'll make sense to play the anthem, but it's certainly absurd that everybody has to run to the front of the grid in the height of race prep to waste 3 minutes of their lives at the most inopportune moment - instead of, let's say, working on last-moment fixes of a spark plug - something really important! 

 

Just be glad they don't also have to PRAY before the races, like they do in the US. 

Edited by maximilian, 21 October 2017 - 14:16.

[Ickx]

At least we don't have to see it in F1, I have at least never seen the pre race thing. The show before Nascar is quite ridiculous to me personally as we have a different tradition with our flag, although it's used quite frequently it is not like people publicly salutes. 

 

I guess I don't really care that much. I have already moved on when the last cars crossed the line and trying to keep up with the forum.

[BuddyHolly]

I'd happily lose the national anthem as long as it removes the dumb need for the drivers to come to the front and line up.  

[Anja]

I'm far from being a traditionalist but for some reason I find these ceremonies in sport rather nice. 

 

But I agree that playing an anthem for the winning team makes very little sense. 

Edited by Anja, 21 October 2017 - 14:24.

[SonGoku]

I find it utter nonsense to be honest and I also don't see the link with F1. To be honest, I would rather listen to some West Coast Classics or dance music than the national anthems.

[HeadFirst]

Need is a funny word. Of course we don't "need" national anthems, but you could also ask, "Do we really need craft beers, liquid soap, or F1?" 

[V8 Fireworks]

I'd happily lose the national anthem as long as it removes the dumb need for the drivers to come to the front and line up.  

 

That part is fine and is a courtesy to the fans in the stands and the host country.

 

It is the anthem on the podium that is unnecessary.

[E1pix]

Anthems are fabulous.

Shouldn't we honor our and other's nations?

[PiperPa42]

I agree with Jellyfish: I have no problem with the anthem of the host being played prior to the start. Requiring all the drivers to stand in line up front and punishing them for not doing so, can go to the scrap bin. Why does it has to influence the championship?

Edit:
I want to keep the anthems for the podium, it's tradition and I can't imagine how it must be to hear your national anthem for the first time on the podium. The same for teams, I am looking forward to see Gene Haas hearing The Star-Spangled Banner after his team's first win.
Another edit because somebody likes facts to be true

Edited by PiperPa42, 21 October 2017 - 15:28.

[maximilian]

 I am looking forward to see Gene Haas hearing God bless America after his team's first win.

 

That'll be a long time coming, though... not because Haas can't win, but because they won't play THAT song! 

[Rob29]

Think there are more important problems to worry about.One that annoys me is in Indycar when they show Scottish & English flags but not US state ones?

Not sure what they play in NASCAR but prayers before the race could offend us non christians

[jonpollak]

It's appropriate at the Olympics..And the Indy 500.

[Fastcake]

I prefer to keep these type of things to a bare minimum. It's been slowly rising these past few years, ever since they started making the drivers hang around at the front and start paying attention to the normally mediocre performance of the anthem. Anything that approaches the over the top flag waving patriotic wank sometimes exhibited by our cousins across the pond gets a massive no from me.

 

It is common in many sports for the podium ceremony to play the national anthem of the winner, and play a gif of a slowing fluttering flag on a computer raise the flags of the top three, so I don't have a problem with that aspect. On the other hand, plenty of sports don't play the anthems, so I don't mind either way.

[PiperPa42]

That'll be a long time coming, though... not because Haas can't win, but because they won't play THAT song! 

Funny thing is that I've heard the US national anthem 20+ times the last year

[Kalmake]

I guess the host anthem makes sense if they are using public funding for the race (which they shouldn't).

 

Podium anthems are a joke since most drivers are tax exiles.

[Tsarwash]

Think there are more important problems to worry about.One that annoys me is in Indycar when they show Scottish & English flags but not US state ones?

Not sure what they play in NASCAR but prayers before the race could offend us non christians

That's is easy. Scotland and England are two separate countries, whereas US states are not. Would you get annoyed when Austrian flags are shown instead of German ones ? 

As for the question, I hate it when I hear some overdone singer warbling the US anthem, especially when the lyrics are patently just nonsense. Don't get me as a bigot here, I despise the UK national anthem as well, of all the people in the country who needs saving by God, the Queen must be near the bottom of the list, as she has shedloads of security and private doctors to keep her alive. Most of them are hopelessly lively little ditties more suited to a nursery rhyme, of horrific military style dirges when can last forever.

 

I think the question ought to be, why with all the great tunes out there, don't we all get some better national anthems ? 

[Tsarwash]

Funny thing is that I've heard the US national anthem 20+ times the last year

 

But it's not the national anthem. 

[LucaP]

I like the anthems/celebration, but often the anthems of the winning driver/team are quite boring, they could rotate and play random ones 

 

Imagine Vettel winning and say, Angolan anthem playing. Or a Ricciardo win, and the anthem of Nicaragua

[pdac]

I think national anthems in sports is a sign that those sports respect tradition and values. I don't think there are many sports that do now, so probably time to junk the anthems.

[Whatisvalis]

Anthems make sense at international events. Anthems at high school / college / weekend sports events (cough, America) are weird and nationalistic.

[RECKLESS]

I for one am absolutely for the anthems and the whole ceremony.

I'm not patriotic or anything but I just like to cheer for my countrymen and the anthem is awesome to hear if they win.

Edited by RECKLESS, 21 October 2017 - 16:02.

[teejay]

Whilst countries are paying hosting fees and as such use the race as a tourist/promotional tool, then yes, they should be played. 

[Kev00]

I don’t mind National anthems for the winner of the race. That makes sense. But National anthems before a race is just a load of crap. It would make more sense to play the anthem of all the drivers than it does the anthem of the host country.

[PayasYouRace]

Think there are more important problems to worry about.One that annoys me is in Indycar when they show Scottish & English flags but not US state ones?
Not sure what they play in NASCAR but prayers before the race could offend us non christians

The countries that form the United Kingdom are not analogous to the states that form the United States.

[Jacobss]

I was just reading the Lewis Hamilton thread (now closed) and don't want this thread to debate whether or not kneeling during an anthem is right or wrong. There is a time and a place for that and it's not here!

No my question is whether we need national anthems in F1 or Sport in general. In F1 what is the point of the national anthem? As a motorsport fan I'm interested in where a car is made, who the manufacturer is and to some extent the nationality of the driver. But I don't really feel a need to hear the national anthem of any country. Its not like Mercedes win a Grand Prix because they are a German car company. The car is made in the UK and the team is international but perhaps mostly British so actually playing the German national anthem doesn't even make sense. At one time Ferrari were making cars in the UK as well but we still listened to the Italian national anthem. It makes no sense at all.

F1 is a global sport when it visits Brazil we hear the Brazilian national anthem. But what for? Do Brazilians need to hear it to feel Brazilian?

When a driver wins a GP you hear the national anthem of their country. Again is it really needed in this day and age?

Don't get me wrong I'm a proud Brit and in some sports like the Olympics it might be relevant but in F1 do we really need it? If we want to depoliticise Sport is this the place to start?

What day and age we do have? Nations and countries do exist. They did, they do and they will.

 

Funny how I always hear from people, which countries exploited half of the world that it now doesnt matter which country you are from. First you build your wealth at exploiting weaker nations and then you say people's origin doesnt matter at this day and age. Because thats what it means. I can forget about my nation and country, but first when when we all become equal and you give back what you have stolen.

 

Yes, we need national anthems. We love to cheer our countrymen. If it doesnt matter to you, just mute your TV.

[jjcale]

No.

[jjcale]

Whilst countries are paying hosting fees and as such use the race as a tourist/promotional tool, then yes, they should be played. 

 

When did FOM/FIA ever sign a contract with a country .... the officials/politicians hanging about and giving out prizes need to go too. 

[jjcale]

Drivers and Teams should nominate theme songs ... like F1's closest sporting analogue, WWE... 

[opplock]

No. Lining up drivers at front of grid before a GP to "respect" host country anthem started with Putin.  When Pedro Rodriguez won the South African GP they played "South of the border, down Mexico way" not having a copy of Mexican anthem. One of John Watson's GP wins was serenaded by the Irish national anthem. Ulster born Watson was unimpressed. Wars have started over lesser things.

[PayasYouRace]

What day and age we do have? Nations and countries do exist. They did, they do and they will.

 

 

Indeed, and the concept isn't going anywhere any time soon. Given that a country's Grand Prix is supposed to represent the pinnacle of motorsport in that country, then it only makes sense that it features an element of national recognition.

[Knowlesy]

Anthems are fine by and large. I wouldn't say we need them but I am happy enough they are there.

The idea that you must stand to attention for them or ensure you are in a specific place when they are playing is just incredibly pathetic though.

At least we haven't got the poppy contagion in F1... yet!

[ANF]

No. Lining up drivers at front of grid before a GP to "respect" host country anthem started with Putin.  When Pedro Rodriguez won the South African GP they played "South of the border, down Mexico way" not having a copy of Mexican anthem. One of John Watson's GP wins was serenaded by the Irish national anthem. Ulster born Watson was unimpressed. Wars have started over lesser things.

[Stephane]

They should do it properly, like in WEC, not just the drivers in line, but everyone on the grid concerned

 

https://www.facebook...36851563033194/

[THEWALL]

From Motorsport.com: "There are also plans to tailor the images that are available in each market so they are better focused on local interest – whether it is through focusing on a driver or team that is of most interest, or well tailored graphics and commentary."

 

In the same way we don´t need national anthems, we don't need this. These subjects are related. Globalization means that, even if I live in, say, South America, I should be able to choose the best broadcast or follow the best driver, whether I want to watch in Spanish, English or whatever and that I don't necessarily follow drivers from that area of the world or who speak the language. We are way past the point of people sympathizing with, or supporting someone just because they were born in relative close geographic proximity or speak one of the same languages.

 

Instead of moving towards unifying, these measures, together with things like national anthems, basically serve nationalistic interests or commercial ones, which, in many cases, exploit the former. Strange that the paradigm of international business seems to have shifted at some point from one of globalization to a localization one.

 

Having said that, a national anthem sung well by any good singer, famous or not, is nice from a show point of view, but so is any other piece of music. That drivers or anyone else are forced to attend to or listen is IMO just part of the remnants of an older, disconnected generation, still running these things.

Edited by THEWALL, 21 October 2017 - 18:20.

[BRG]

If anybody thinks that there will be a US GP without a huge flag, cheerleaders and marching bands, fly pasts by the USAF, Marines and National Guard and finally some schmuck murdering 'The Star Spangled Banner', you are fooling yoursleves.  It won't happen.  They play the anthem at every event, however minor.  As is their right. 

 

And plenty of other countries feel equally inclined to play their anthems at their GPs, including the British GP.  The Daily Mail would have a total meltdown if they didn't.  Which might be the only reasons for not playing it.

 

It is all part of the show and pageantry that is modern sport and if Mr Vettel can't get his act together to do his massively highly paid bit, then perhaps he should try another line of work.  There are vacancies at my local Lidl. I bet he wouldn't miss the start because he was queueing for the toilet.

[noriaki]

Post-race, yes we do. 

 

After the race it's a nice and classy moment, the one bit of the entire celebration procedure where all the fuss dies down and the winning driver alone gets to become the centre of everyone's attention - and a long standing tradition to boot. Can't think of a better way of ruining the post race celebration than swapping the national anthem with some dance-song type WWE bs.

 

Not too bothered with whether the pre-race anthem should be there or not, though. Well I've always been for differentiating between the events, so I guess I'd support the host's right to decide whether to play it and to what degree of grandiosity, but it's not a big issue for me. 

[jjcale]

No. Lining up drivers at front of grid before a GP to "respect" host country anthem started with Putin.  When Pedro Rodriguez won the South African GP they played "South of the border, down Mexico way" not having a copy of Mexican anthem. One of John Watson's GP wins was serenaded by the Irish national anthem. Ulster born Watson was unimpressed. Wars have started over lesser things.

 

Are you sure?

[Risil]

Question for TNF maybe?

I definitely remember the standing up at the front being a Bigger Thing at the Russian GP than the others. But perhaps it was just televising it that made the difference.

[RECKLESS]

Post-race, yes we do.

After the race it's a nice and classy moment, the one bit of the entire celebration procedure where all the fuss dies down and the winning driver alone gets to become the centre of everyone's attention - and a long standing tradition to boot. Can't think of a better way of ruining the post race celebration than swapping the national anthem with some dance-song type WWE bs.

Not too bothered with whether the pre-race anthem should be there or not, though. Well I've always been for differentiating between the events, so I guess I'd support the host's right to decide whether to play it and to what degree of grandiosity, but it's not a big issue for me.

Amen. Agree 100%

[superden]

Pre-race, no.

Post race/podium, yes.

[Fastcake]

Are you sure?

 

Yes, the drivers standing at the front of the grid started with the Russian GP in 2014. Before then, it was quite common for the gridwalk interviews to carry on with the anthems playing in the background.

[ensign14]

No. Lining up drivers at front of grid before a GP to "respect" host country anthem started with Putin.  When Pedro Rodriguez won the South African GP they played "South of the border, down Mexico way" not having a copy of Mexican anthem. One of John Watson's GP wins was serenaded by the Irish national anthem. Ulster born Watson was unimpressed. Wars have started over lesser things.

 

When West Brom played Red Star Belgrade in a UEFA Cup tie back in the day, the Yugoslavs forgot to bring a copy of their national anthem, so the PA played Kenny Ball's "Midnight In Moscow" instead.