82 replies to this topic

[wilsongt]

Going on instinctive reaction rather than any evidence - they're all looking at a new racing car at time of release? Lotus 12? BRM?

[2F-001]

Well, I did wonder if that might be Raymond Mays, third from left with the balding head.

[Porsche718]

We'll see if you can identify more ....

 

 

A hint has just been revealed ! So what is there now, that wasn't before?

[Porsche718]

wilsongt and 2F - you may be going by the colouring of the photo, and even the styles of clothing and guessing mid-50s. Surprisingly, it's much later than that.

Edited by Porsche718, 29 October 2017 - 07:06.

[Vitesse2]

I'd say 1970s, given the style of the lady's sheepskin jacket. And I can't help thinking the woman on the far left looks a lot like Yoko Ono ... although that's probably just the shades making me think that!

[fbarrett]

BRM launch?

[Porsche718]

Yoko Ono and Raymond Mays? You wouldn't expect to see that in the same sentence!!

[DanTra2858]

Oh come on what stupid answers, can you not see they are watching "TIME TEAM" dig another trench and digging up the remains of a 250 F Masser. 😂🤗

[Tim Murray]

A hint has just been revealed ! So what is there now, that wasn't before?

To save having to keep switching pages:





Still none the wiser though. It strikes me that there are many more women there than I’d expect to see at an average ‘70s racing car launch, plus the teenagers and uniformed man. I’m baffled.

[Porsche718]

Now that you Northern Hemispherians are awake. I'll give you a bit more.

 

[Bumblyari]

Would one of the ladies in the picture be called Babs perhaps ?

[Porsche718]

The ladies in the "fraction"? No

[Bumblyari]

Ok then, I'll take your word for it that none of the ladies in the 'fraction' are called Babs, not even the one in the sheepskin coat who looks like a Babs to me.

 

So what about the one lying in the hole from which the pile of sand on the right hand side has been dug ? 1969 wasn't it ?

[Porsche718]

Correct Bumblyari

 

 

photo - geocaching.com

 

During the mid '20s, a battle for the World Land Speed Record was fought between Malcolm Campbell's V12 18.3 litre Sunbeam, and J G Parry-Thomas' 27 litre Liberty aero-engined Babs.

 

In 1924, at Pendine Sands, Wales, Campbell set the record at 146 mph, then 150 mph the next year. Parry-Thomas brought Babs to the smooth sands of Pendine in 1926, and raised the record to 169, then 171 mph.

 

In February 1927 Campbell returned with a new "Bluebird". Now Napier-Lion powered. With this 22 litre W12 engined machine, Campbell raised the record to 174.88 mph. J G Parry-Thomas now set his mind to return in early March. 

 

Babs was prepared. Parry-Thomas set off on his first run down the sands of Pendine. Everything went smoothly. But on the return run up the beach at a speed exceeding 100 mph, Babs went out of control. Possibly because of a rear wheel collapsing, possibly because of the right-hand drive chain breaking. The car rolled over and J G Parry-Thomas was killed.

 

Within a few days, an inquest was held and finalised, and the next day the decision was made to bury Babs in the sands where she had come to rest. It was there she stayed for 40 years.

 

In 1967, workmen laying services to a newly erected military building on the edge of the beach, accidentally uncovered a section of Babs. Owen Wyn Owen, a vintage car restorer from Wales, heard of the discovery, and set his mind to the raising of Babs from her grave and restoring her. There ensued a two year battle before all parties agreed. In 1969 Babs was lifted from her resting place. Owen Wyn Owen took 15 years restoring her to running order.

 

She spends much of the year on display at the Pendine Museum of Speed.

Edited by Porsche718, 29 October 2017 - 12:06.

[Porsche718]

Us Southerners are off to bed. Leave you with this....

 

 

Identify this car. What was its "claim to fame"?

[Michael Ferner]

I couldn't find a reference pic without googling, but isn't that the Life what-was-its-type, F190? Claim to fame? Worst ever F1 car...


EDIT Couldn't stand the suspense (how fast do you sleep, Porsche?) and googled it in the meantime - yes, I was right

Edited by Michael Ferner, 29 October 2017 - 13:01.

[bartez1000]

This is element of Life W12 Engine, designed by Franco Rocchi. It's unusual layout resulted in asymmetrically placed inlet ports and exhaust. This engine is usually recognized as failure, as it produced  ~480hp while Honda and Ferrari could provide nearly 700. Moreover, reliability was terrible, which, when merged with mediocre chassis resulted in  14 DNPQ out of 14 tries during 1990 season. Bruno Giacomelli, who was entered 12 times in this car was 20-30s off the pace.  As a result, Life F189 is often perceived as worst car to enter F1 World Championship race.

 

EDIT: Whoops, Michael Ferner posted his message while i was writing mine.

Edited by bartez1000, 29 October 2017 - 13:05.

[Porsche718]

You're right guys. Darn! I knew I posted too much of the engine!

 

 

Rocchi had been obsessed with the "benefits" of a W12. Compactness of a V8, power benefits of a 12 cylinder. I mean....how hard could it be?

 

Very hard ... apparently. Bartez mentioned most of its "best" points already. But didn't mentioned that it rarely made it back to the pits under its own power. Its greatest number of laps completed before breaking down was 6!

 

Gary Brabham and Bruno Giacomelli must have become so fed up with being on the wrong side of a tow rope. Toward the end of the season they replaced the Rocchi W12 with a Judd V8......and guess what it was just as bad! Eventually the L190 chassis was reunited with W12 engine and restored and shows up at historic meetings.

 

It's a strange quick of our "historic" race-car industry that this is a car that will eventually be revered and loved by the historic community. Not because it won anything, not because it was driven by a Senna, or a Schumacher, or a Nuvolari. But because it an absolute shocker!

[Porsche718]

Showed too much last photo. So.....

 

What is this vehicle's claim to fame?

 

[Doug Nye]

The photographer who captured 'Blackie' broadside at Warwick Farm with his colleague in the left foreground was Nigel Snowdon. The left-hand shot of him sliding the BT19 at Zandvoort credited - irritatingly - to "Pinterest.au" was taken by Geoff Goddard I feel sure while the right-hand photo (broadly similar) is I think a David Phipps shot.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 03 November 2017 - 12:37.

[Porsche718]

Thanks for adding corrections and acknowledgements. I will add them to my files. Steve

[bartez1000]

Easy. Dead giveway was the tyres - this kind of rubber would probably not be used in any road racing car, so it could be utility vehicle, but not very big as wheels would be bigger. This is custom Mercedes transporter, used to haul Mercedes racing cars like W196 or 300SLR around Europe during mid 50s. Sometimes it it known as "The Blue Wonder" as this vehicle was blue, and not racing silver, as one could deduce from black-white photos.  The original truck was scrapped during 60s, and a replica was recently produced. Allegedly an engine from 300 SL was used to provide power.  Some other big teams used customized transport trucks - like Ferrari's Fiat or Vanvall's Leyland royal tiger, but no other decided to produce one themselves. This was possible for Mercedes  as it was manufacture producing both trucks and sports cars. Interesting detail is usage of lights, grille and front shape that tend to be silmilar to ones used in Mercedes sports cars. Today we may see similar trend in Vans that have common design clues with smaller cars of given manufacturer. Mercedes Sprinter has some similar details to S500.  Smallest Mercedes truck of that time, the L319 did not used that mechanism. So, we may say that "Das blaue Wunder" was ahead of time.

[Ray Bell]

That would be this one?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Doug Nye"
The photographer who captured 'Black' broadside at Warwick Farm with his colleague in the left foreground was Nigel Snowdon. The left-hand shot of him sliding the BT19 at Zandvoort credited - irritatingly - to "Pinterest.au" was taken by Geoff Goddard I feel sure while the right-hand photo (broadly similar) is I think a David Phipps shot.

Didn't Henry N Manney III also get a similar pic?

The Blackie photo to which you refer...



...is in Nigel's book, The Ultimate Excitement. I'm not sure whether James was asking the identity of the photographer with the hat or the photographer who took this one:



This pic is not up to the usual Nigel-sharp standard, but I believe it also wasn't taken at Leger Corner. It looks very much like the exit to the Northern Crossing to me.

With regarded to the man with the hat, I can tell you that Nigel's brother, Chris, Darrel Bird and Dennis Lane were taking photos in that location on that day, Richard Austin often did but I think this is too early for him.

[Lee Nicolle]

That would be this one?

There is a few of these replicas around. This one ofcourse reputedly a dead replica. Jay Leno has one, probably more practical and with a modern diesel. Built by a Swede? aand finished by Lenos own team.

[Lee Nicolle]

Didn't Henry N Manney III also get a similar pic?

The Blackie photo to which you refer...



...is in Nigel's book, The Ultimate Excitement. I'm not sure whether James was asking the identity of the photographer with the hat or the photographer who took this one:



This pic is not up to the usual Nigel-sharp standard, but I believe it also wasn't taken at Leger Corner. It looks very much like the exit to the Northern Crossing to me.

With regarded to the man with the hat, I can tell you that Nigel's brother, Chris, Darrel Bird and Dennis Lane were taking photos in that location on that day, Richard Austin often did but I think this is too early for him.

To me that is very un Jack like. He was very smooth with a lot of mechanical sympathy and driving it sideways with the tyres on fire was not his style. More Pete Geoghan or Norm Beechey!

[Ray Bell]

Lee, I suggest you find the video of the 1968 Warwick Farm race...

Jack got really ragged in that one. Especially watch for the moment he goes to outbrake Gardner.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 30 October 2017 - 05:09.

[opplock]

 

 

 

 

Gary Brabham and Bruno Giacomelli must have become so fed up with being on the wrong side of a tow rope. 

 

 

I recall reading an interview with Giacomelli towards the end of the year. He said he was paid US$30,000 per race. Not a bad rate of pay for doing a few laps on Friday and then being free to enjoy a GP weekend.  

[Ray Bell]

What has happened to our thread starter?

I am waiting anxiously to see his whole picture of the Mercedes transporter.

[bartez1000]

OP still don't reply, so I may as well post link to full photo:

http://www.carstylin...54/images/4693/

Hockenheimring test drive, 1955.

 

As Porsche718 seems to be unavalible, here is my fraction of photo, to keep thread alive:

What is this? Which car had this element?

 

[kevins]

Mclaren MP4/12 third pedal break steer?

[bartez1000]

https://i.kinja-img....79900549776.jpg

Yes, this is footwell of Mclaren MP4/12 with two brake pedals. The leftmost one was extra, allowing for more braking of inside read wheel. Nice article about this system:

http://www.motorspor...e-steer-mclaren

Edited by bartez1000, 05 November 2017 - 19:41.

[wilsongt]

Loved this thread, though never quick/knowledgeable enough to give a correct answer. Any chance of a resurrection?

Regards
Glenn