228 replies to this topic

[gillesfan76]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 10:02, said:

That contradicts what he said in that interview, though.

 

F1R: So when did you decide [to retire]?

NR: On the grid in Abu Dhabi, before the race.

 

Could it be that Nico meant that as a conditional retire i.e assumed he was going to win the championship. I mean it was highly unlikely that he wouldn't have given he didn't have to win the race but finish 2nd noting the car superiority. So unless he had a reliability issue or a horrendous start, it wasn't likely he'd not finish 2nd. I also guess that when he was lined up on the grid he didn't expect that Lewis would actually try and back him into the pack, because apparently before the race the team talked about that very situation and made it clear to Lewis it wasn't ok. Not that it made any difference to Lewis.

 

Of course I'm speculating about all of this, but we do know is that he has said that he would have kept going had he not won the championship.

[MKSixer]

I found the entire piece as well as the commentary it is generating rather hilarious. There is one point of mechanical failure that decided the championship and it occurred in Malaysia.  Without that failure HAM is the champion and all of the slimmer thighs, tin-foil hat waves directed at Lewis from all areas of the globe don't matter.  He had the championship well in hand with his performance in Malaysia until that failure.  With a brand new PU.  Nico didn't beat Lewis in 2016 any more than Kimi beat Lewis in 2007.  Cheers-mk

[Gareth]

Jordan44, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:03, said:

If that wasn't the point he was trying to make why did he say it?

"My smaller leg muscles got me on pole, and that messed with Lewis's head, so he messed up the start"

However the question was asked it still shows the great level of delusion he finds himself in.

He's not saying his smaller leg muscles messed with Lewis's head. He's saying being in second did.

[Jordan44]

Gareth, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:31, said:

He's not saying his smaller leg muscles messed with Lewis's head. He's saying being in second did.

 

He's saying his smaller leg muscles got him on pole, which is what messed with Lewis's head.

Edited by Jordan44, 01 November 2017 - 15:37.

[Marklar]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 10:02, said:

That contradicts what he said in that interview, though.
 
F1R: So when did you decide [to retire]?
NR: On the grid in Abu Dhabi, before the race.

To be fair he changed the story multiple times since the moment he announced his retirement
 

Gareth, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:31, said:

He's not saying his smaller leg muscles messed with Lewis's head. He's saying being in second did.

Not really

"My smaller leg muscles got me on pole, and that messed with Lewis's head, so he messed up the start"

But dunno, maybe he meant it differently and his anecdote about his leg was not important to mention at all!

Even then, suggesting that being 2nd by a small margin after being dominated the whole weekend, would mess with his head, sounds pretty reaching it.

It's understandable though, since he tries to distract from other factors the whole time, like, a damp grid spot messing with Hamilton head, but who knows, maybe Nico ordered the rain 

Edited by Marklar, 01 November 2017 - 15:51.

[GoldenColt]

It could all be worse. Imagine he was saying those things while carrying the WDC trophy with him, like he was doing all the time at the end of 2016. 

Edited by GoldenColt, 01 November 2017 - 15:50.

[as65p]

gillesfan76, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:10, said:

Could it be that Nico meant that as a conditional retire i.e assumed he was going to win the championship.

Yeah, quite possible.

Marklar, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:40, said:

To be fair he changed the story multiple times since the moment he announced his retirement

No surprise there. To be fair, as long as he only thinks about it all to himself, he has no obligation to fix a time "when I made the decision", it only effectively became one once he said it to Toto Wolff.

[as65p]

Marklar, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:40, said:

Not really

"My smaller leg muscles got me on pole, and that messed with Lewis's head, so he messed up the start"

 

Reads to me like the bolded is the core of the message, the SML (of which I already have pics in my head by now ) being only a means to it, of which probably (and hopefully) Hamilton knew nothing.

[Jordan44]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 16:45, said:

Reads to me like the bolded is the core of the message, the SML (of which I already have pics in my head by now ) being only a means to it, of which probably (and hopefully) Hamilton knew nothing.

 

No, a quote from the F1 Racing article:

 

It was worth 0.04s and I was on pole by 0.03s - that messed with Lewis's head

Edited by Jordan44, 01 November 2017 - 16:48.

[gillesfan76]

This is messing with my head.

[MKSixer]

Marklar, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:40, said:

 

"My smaller leg muscles got me on pole, and that messed with Lewis's head, so he messed up the start"

 

The cringeworthiness is strong in this one. 

Edited by MKSixer, 01 November 2017 - 17:05.

[RECKLESS]

MKSixer, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:12, said:

Nico didn't beat Lewis in 2016 any more than Kimi beat Lewis in 2007. Cheers-mk

Kimi had more dnf's as well as more wins.

You had more sour grapes.

[Swck81]

GoldenColt, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:43, said:

It could all be worse. Imagine he was saying those things while carrying the WDC trophy with him, like he was doing all the time at the end of 2016. 

 

Next level of abstraction. World Champion carrying WDC trophy. How dare he!

[as65p]

Jordan44, on 01 Nov 2017 - 16:48, said:

No, a quote from the F1 Racing article:

 

It was worth 0.04s and I was on pole by 0.03s - that messed with Lewis's head

 

Well, same. What supposedly messed with Lewis head was that Rosberg was on pole, not how he got there. That's how I read it, at least. But I guess it will remain open to interpretation unless Nico decides to elaborate (please: NO).

 

[Jordan44]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 17:25, said:

Well, same. What supposedly messed with Lewis head was that Rosberg was on pole, not how he got there. That's how I read it, at least. But I guess it will remain open to interpretation unless Nico decides to elaborate (please: NO).

 

 

No, it's not the same. He gave the figures to point out the significance of them. That's the whole point.

Edited by Jordan44, 01 November 2017 - 17:32.

[KrlBrmmn]

MKSixer, on 01 Nov 2017 - 15:12, said:

I found the entire piece as well as the commentary it is generating rather hilarious. There is one point of mechanical failure that decided the championship and it occurred in Malaysia.  Without that failure HAM is the champion and all of the slimmer thighs, tin-foil hat waves directed at Lewis from all areas of the globe don't matter.  He had the championship well in hand with his performance in Malaysia until that failure.  With a brand new PU.  Nico didn't beat Lewis in 2016 any more than Kimi beat Lewis in 2007.  Cheers-mk

 

Hamilton gained 10 points after team orders in Monaco. He would have finished 3rd behind Nico without that. Nico was also crashed in to by Vettel in Malaysia and would have won that race easily otherwise. Everyone can make up what ifs. Nico also out qualified him over the season in 2014. The point is Nico was a worthy winner and put himself in a position to win. Hamilton had it easy this year with #2 Bottas.

Nico has also has a rather embarrassing record over Hamilton. He won 8 races in a row against him. Something no other F1 WDC has ever suffered.

[Jordan44]

KrlBrmmn, on 01 Nov 2017 - 18:03, said:

Hamilton gained 10 points after team orders in Monaco. He would have finished 3rd behind Nico without that. Nico was also crashed in to by Vettel in Malaysia and would have won that race easily otherwise. Everyone can make up what ifs. Nico also out qualified him over the season in 2014. The point is Nico was a worthy winner and put himself in a position to win. Hamilton had it easy this year with #2 Bottas.

Nico has also has a rather embarrassing record over Hamilton. He won 8 races in a row against him. Something no other F1 WDC has ever suffered.

 

So what? The team orders were completely justified thanks to horrific pace from Nico. It doesn't detract at all from Hamilton, the call HAD to be made. It's not a what if scenario. And no, there's no way in hell Nico would have finished 3rd. Both of them would have been jumped by a ton of cars in the pitlane as Nico was basically the slowest car in the race.

Edited by Jordan44, 01 November 2017 - 18:18.

[as65p]

Jordan44, on 01 Nov 2017 - 17:32, said:

No, it's not the same. He gave the figures to point out the significance of them. That's the whole point.

If you must insist, we have to disagree.

 

Jordan44, on 01 Nov 2017 - 18:13, said:

So what? The team orders were completely justified thanks to horrific pace from Nico. It doesn't detract at all from Hamilton, the call HAD to be made. It's not a what if scenario. And no, there's no way in hell Nico would have finished 3rd. Both of them would have been jumped by a ton of cars in the pitlane as Nico was basically the slowest car in the race.

Not at all. In fact, that they had to make the call in order to get Hamilton in front despite the large pace difference, points to Rosberg quite possibly being capable of keeping the lead even at his horrible pace. Rosbergs pace was on Hamiltons level 5 laps after he let Lewis through, so he would have needed to only survive those 5 laps and could have afterwards battled on at his normal level instead of being dropped into the pack. Sure it was the best decision from Mercedes POV as a team to let the way faster (at that point) guy through, but that doesn't mean it was the only possible decision.

[Jordan44]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 18:33, said:

If you must insist, we have to disagree.

 

Not at all. In fact, that they had to make the call in order to get Hamilton in front despite the large pace difference, points to Rosberg quite possibly being capable of keeping the lead even at his horrible pace. Rosbergs pace was on Hamiltons level 5 laps after he let Lewis through, so he would have needed to only survive those 5 laps and could have afterwards battled on at his normal level instead of being dropped into the pack. Sure it was the best decision from Mercedes POV as a team to let the way faster (at that point) guy through, but that doesn't mean it was the only possible decision.

 

False.

 

Edited by Jordan44, 01 November 2017 - 18:42.

[Marklar]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 18:33, said:

Rosbergs pace was on Hamiltons level 5 laps after he let Lewis through, so he would have needed to only survive those 5 laps and could have afterwards battled on at his normal level instead of being dropped into the pack.

He pitted 5 laps later in order to save his race. He was hopelessly off the pace at that point.

[JHSingo]

I think they're both equally as obsessed with each other. It's clear from comments Hamilton has made that he's still not over last year, and Rosberg makes comments like this.

 

Kinda sad, really. Further proof that money can buy you many things, but not class.

[garoidb]

gillesfan76, on 01 Nov 2017 - 16:54, said:

This is messing with my head.

 

You are collateral damage. It was only supposed to affect Lewis!

[1Devil1]

Swck81, on 01 Nov 2017 - 17:18, said:

Next level of abstraction. World Champion carrying WDC trophy. How dare he!

 

He isn't allowed to cary it. Championships won by reliability are not real ones according to the house rules. 

[as65p]

Marklar, on 01 Nov 2017 - 18:49, said:

He pitted 5 laps later in order to save his race. He was hopelessly off the pace at that point.

And after his stop he was on roughly comparable pace to Hamilton for the next 20 or so laps. At least according to the Forix "gap analysis" graph.

 

Anyway the main point is, the team order wasn't something inevitable but something Mercedes chose to do (with good reason, but still). For the team it was a no-brainer, but at the same time there can be no denying that it also helped Hamilton in his WDC fight against Rosberg. I mean, just imagine the two having the same year-long battle in different teams, then it obviously wouldn't have happened that way and the outcome of Monaco 2016 might have been completely different.

 

Rosberg was the overall luckier guy in 2016, but it's still foolish to deny the occasions when Hamilton was helped by luck or outside influence, like in Monaco.

[Marklar]

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 21:18, said:

And after his stop he was on roughly comparable pace to Hamilton for the next 20 or so laps. At least according to the Forix "gap analysis" graph.

Because he had new tyres, while Hamilton carried on with wet tyres on a dry track in order to win the race over less pitstops. Rosberg should have been vastly quicker at that stage, but he wasnt

Later they pitted both again (Hamilton for the 1st time, Rosberg for the 2nd), those were the time differences after that (first few laps are ignorable since these were SC related



http://en.mclarenf-1...r2=Nico Rosberg
 
Rosberg - under similar conditions - was consistenly over the whole race 1.5-2.5 s slower. Even with new inters on a drying track compared to old full wets he was barely quicker, it's pretty clear to be honest.

as65p, on 01 Nov 2017 - 21:18, said:

Anyway the main point is, the team order wasn't something inevitable but something Mercedes chose to do

It was inevitable if they wanted to even land on the podium, since Rosberg lacked pace even for that.

It was unnecessary for the championship though.

Edited by Marklar, 01 November 2017 - 21:31.

[JonnyJ]

Pah! Marklar, the problem is you trust numbers too much...;)

[as65p]

Marklar, on 01 Nov 2017 - 21:21, said:

http://en.mclarenf-1...r2=Nico Rosberg
 
Rosberg - under similar conditions - was consistenly over the whole race 1.5-2.5 s slower. Even with new inters on a drying track compared to old full wets he was barely quicker, it's pretty clear to be honest.

It was inevitable if they wanted to even land on the podium, since Rosberg lacked pace even for that.
 

Okay. I stand corrected regarding their pace difference.

 

Quote

It was unnecessary for the championship though.

 

Yet it helped Hamiltons championship aspirations and dented Rosbergs.  That's as undeniable as your numbers.

[DaddyCool]

CountDooku, on 01 Nov 2017 - 10:30, said:

 

Apparently he "pyched Lewis out" but he's still a quitter who couldn't handle the heat. Quitters don't get to claim any high ground.

 

Sure, having been recently married with a kid (and the second one on the way) surely had nothing to do with him quitting. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he only knocked up Vivian the second time just to have a convenient excuse for cowardly fleeing the scene.

 

Was Schumacher a coward too when he quit after 2006 when Kimi and Fernando were breathing down his neck? 

[CountDooku]

DaddyCool, on 01 Nov 2017 - 23:01, said:

Sure, having been recently married with a kid (and the second one on the way) surely had nothing to do with him quitting. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he only knocked up Vivian the second time just to have a convenient excuse for cowardly fleeing the scene.

Was Schumacher a coward too when he quit after 2006 when Kimi and Fernando were breathing down his neck?

I never called him a coward, you just did.