535 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

First entry is confirmed:

 

http://sportscar365....tep-up-to-lmp1/

 

LMP1

DragonSpeed (TBA-TBA): Ben Hanley, Henrik Hedman, TBA

[V8 Fireworks]

Toyota - in or out? 

[Victor_RO]

Toyota - in or out? 

 

Latest reports say "in" about 80-90% certain.

[f1paul]

This series is dying, even I'll say this and I'm an optimistic person. Having a superseason won't change much, all it is, is that there's a season a normal winter break and then 3 more races were you will just add up the points from the races in 2018. Over those effectively off season months, I'll forget who's leading the championship because there's a massive gap between the final race in 2018 and the first one in 2019. 

 

It needs another big manufacturer in LMP1 to get me into it.

 

It's a shame really. 

[TF110]

This series is dying, even I'll say this and I'm an optimistic person. Having a superseason won't change much, all it is, is that there's a season a normal winter break and then 3 more races were you will just add up the points from the races in 2018. Over those effectively off season months, I'll forget who's leading the championship because there's a massive gap between the final race in 2018 and the first one in 2019. 

 

It needs another big manufacturer in LMP1 to get me into it.

 

It's a shame really. 

How is it dying? You'll have more lmp1's next year than in the last 3. Why does it have to be with a manufacturer, especially one like VW who basically buys the rules and results? Privateer teams coming in is better for the series because they aren't reliant on what things help or hurt the auto world like dieselgate. Plus we get to have cars with naturally aspirated engines, or turbocharged; minus the hybrid. So we can get some actual noise back into the sport.

 

Aside from lmp1, you have 2 new GTE cars and 1 brand new team/manufacturer, Aston Martin and BMW respectively. the WEC is lmp1 focused, but it wouldn't be the wec without the other classes.

Edited by TF110, 31 October 2017 - 19:34.

[f1paul]

How is it dying? You'll have more lmp1's next year than in the last 3. Why does it have to be with a manufacturer, especially one like VW who basically buys the rules and results? Privateer teams coming in is better for the series because they aren't reliant on what things help or hurt the auto world like dieselgate. Plus we get to have cars with naturally aspirated engines, or turbocharged; minus the hybrid. So we can get some actual noise back into the sport.

 

Aside from lmp1, you have 2 new GTE cars and 1 brand new team/manufacturer, Aston Martin and BMW respectively. the WEC is lmp1 focused, but it wouldn't be the wec without the other classes.

That is a great point.   

 

But what I fear is, LMP1 will die and then WEC will turn into ELMS but with more worldwide tracks. 

 

The 2 championships could merge in the future to make 1 big series. 

[August]

This series is dying, even I'll say this and I'm an optimistic person. Having a superseason won't change much, all it is, is that there's a season a normal winter break and then 3 more races were you will just add up the points from the races in 2018. Over those effectively off season months, I'll forget who's leading the championship because there's a massive gap between the final race in 2018 and the first one in 2019. 

 

That's a good point about the long winter break, although an early-February race may be added. Obviously a winter series is not a good idea unless you can exploit other series' winter break with multiple races. That very much requires races in Latin America, Africa, Middle East, Southeast Asia, or Oceania.

 

Also, I'm not convinced finishing the season at Le Mans is the right thing. Who cares about the WEC titles right after Le Mans?

 

How is it dying? You'll have more lmp1's next year than in the last 3. Why does it have to be with a manufacturer, especially one like VW who basically buys the rules and results? Privateer teams coming in is better for the series because they aren't reliant on what things help or hurt the auto world like dieselgate. Plus we get to have cars with naturally aspirated engines, or turbocharged; minus the hybrid. So we can get some actual noise back into the sport.

 

I'm afraid the budget gap between Toyota and the privateers will also be seen in the performance of the teams. It's definitely good to get privateers with more long term commitment than OEMs. But I'm afraid none of the privateers have the resources to really challenge Toyota.

[messy]

Increasingly I think I find GTE more interesting than LMP1. There are so many teams, proper manufacturer entries, top drivers, I know the BOP is very controversial but it's such an interesting class to watch. I think people are fixating on Porsche (and Audi before that) going, and sure it probably means next season will be an absolute Toyota benefit up at the front, but there's so much more to see.

[chunder27]

You only have to look at what woks elsewhere to see how tough it is to get prototype racing to work.

 

GT racing works everywhere, there are multiple series, Blancpain, IMSA, GT Open, actuallt the least well supported is the WEC series in terms of GT quality.

 

Yet prototypes are a mish mash everywhere, USA as usual doing their own thing, two series with poor numbers split when they could perhaps be combined.

 

GT racing is the future, and the constant.  Not as exciting to see live maybe, but for tv audiences awesome.

[ArrowsLivery]

I have been ranting for a while now about how GTE needs to have their own separate series to go along with the wec, but sadly it does not look like FIA are listening. It’s such a shame that those great cars will only go racing ~ 10 times over the next 2 years because the ACO must protect their precious, though in my opinion, terrible, prototype classes.

[PiperPa42]

The GTE Pro cars will run 12 races next year in North America in addition to those 10 races.

[ArrowsLivery]

The GTE Pro cars will run 12 races next year in North America in addition to those 10 races.

I know, but those are the American based teams. The factory Ferrari squad and the Aston Martins are not competiting in IMSA.

[Victor_RO]

Manor confirmed to run one or more Ginetta LMP1s next year: http://sportscar365....a-lmp1-program/

 

So that's two likely Toyotas, one (unknown) Dragonspeed car, possibly two Ginettas for Manor (since Ginetta announced that their first sale was for a 2-car program), one CLM for Kolles, one Dallara for SMP. 7 LMP1s likely at least then.

[August]

I know, but those are the American based teams. The factory Ferrari squad and the Aston Martins are not competiting in IMSA.

 

But Corvette competes in IMSA and does only Le Mans in the WEC. Ford has brought its IMSA cars to Le Mans in addition to the WEC cars. Risi represents Ferrari with a good team of Vilander and Fisichella. Aston is the only GTE manufacturer without an IMSA program, although in some years they have participated in the Rolex 24.

[F1matt]

Most of the stories I have read regarding SMP is that they will run 2 Dallara's, not sure how this will affect their LMP2 program but if that puts us past 8 LMP1 cars that is a very healthy series.

[Victor_RO]

Most of the stories I have read regarding SMP is that they will run 2 Dallara's, not sure how this will affect their LMP2 program but if that puts us past 8 LMP1 cars that is a very healthy series.

 

There weren't any Dallaras in the WEC this season anyway. The "joker update" aero kit is in testing and calibration already, so if that works then teams might buy the LMP2 car; the car is homologated otherwise so resources are free to work on the LMP1 project.

[FPV GTHO]

I have been ranting for a while now about how GTE needs to have their own separate series to go along with the wec, but sadly it does not look like FIA are listening. It’s such a shame that those great cars will only go racing ~ 10 times over the next 2 years because the ACO must protect their precious, though in my opinion, terrible, prototype classes.

 

Surely it would be a simpler solution to just race GT3 at LeMans/WEC and ditch GTE

[Victor_RO]

Surely it would be a simpler solution to just race GT3 at LeMans/WEC and ditch GTE

 

Too much enmity and bad blood between the ACO and Ratel for that to happen.

[TennisUK]

So, something like this:

 

2 x Toyotas

2 x SMP Dallaras

1 x Kolles

2 x Ginetta (mystery team) +1 spare

1 x Ginetta (Manor), possibly 2

1 x Dragonspeed (TBC constructor)

 

So 9, maybe 10 if Manor run two cars. And possibly more to come. Perhaps if an Oreca can be built up in time Rebellion would consider LMP1 since there would now be legitimate competition.

[Victor_RO]

And given the season starts later at Spa, there's more time for the teams to get their stuff in order and have the cars delivered.

[HistoryFan]

Toyota - in or out? 

 

it looks like in although it would be more interesting if they're out

[HistoryFan]

Manor confirmed to run one or more Ginetta LMP1s next year: http://sportscar365....a-lmp1-program/

 

So that's two likely Toyotas, one (unknown) Dragonspeed car, possibly two Ginettas for Manor (since Ginetta announced that their first sale was for a 2-car program), one CLM for Kolles, one Dallara for SMP. 7 LMP1s likely at least then.

 

Manor is a single car entry in LMP1

 

[HistoryFan]

LMP1

Manor (Ginetta-TBA): TBA, TBA, TBA

DragonSpeed (TBA-TBA): Ben Hanley, Henrik Hedman, TBA

[TF110]

Manor is a single car entry in LMP1

 

Is it even clear yet? Nothing has been revealed so far I thought. What's interesting is that this is in addition to the mystery team who already purchased Ginetta's. So we have potential to see 3 possibly 4 of those cars on the grid. That's great because Ginetta said they see 7 cars being sold/used earlier this year. This is a big sign to all the people saying lmp1 is dead. Far from it. It looks healthier now than it has since the mid 2000's!

[HistoryFan]

I think autosport wrote it.

[Mat13]

This will coincide nicely with the death of F1 on FTA.

[TennisUK]

LMP1

Manor (Ginetta-TBA):

It will use a Mechchrome engine, as well all Ginettas.

[ArrowsLivery]

Is it even clear yet? Nothing has been revealed so far I thought. What's interesting is that this is in addition to the mystery team who already purchased Ginetta's. So we have potential to see 3 possibly 4 of those cars on the grid. That's great because Ginetta said they see 7 cars being sold/used earlier this year. This is a big sign to all the people saying lmp1 is dead. Far from it. It looks healthier now than it has since the mid 2000's!

You must be joking. 7 “Ginettas” does not make the class healthy. This is the worst the top prototype class has looked since everybody left after 1999.

[Anja]

This is the worst the top prototype class has looked since everybody left after 1999.

 

So you've seen the final entry list then?

[HistoryFan]

It will use a Mechchrome engine, as well all Ginettas.

 

Autosport wrote it's not confirmed yet.

 

[sopa]

Looking forward, how can Toyota manage to avoid winning LM24 next time around, though I would be surprised if anyone can match them on outright speed at WEC events.

[F1matt]

Toyota's budget probably has to be agreed at board level in Japan before they can submit an entry for the following season, I fully expect them to be on the grid, they will probably put the current cars in storage after the last race of 2017 and dust them down before the prologue of 2018, cant see any major developments, potentially the driver line up could be interesting!

[Nonesuch]

So you've seen the final entry list then?

 

That's a fair point, but the LMP2 situation should be at least somewhat of a cautionary tale. The idea that a number of cars would race with one spec engine is decent, but if all the main teams pick the same car, which already have the same engine - and LMP1 repeats that by being a mainly one car and one engine series, you're ending up with a situation where LMP1 is just a slightly faster LMP2.

 

I say slightly because LMP1 is probably going to be a bit slower than it was. First because the reduction in manufacter involvement takes some of the pressure off of Toyota, and second because the ACO has been known to think LMP1 has become too fast in recent years, and third because LMP2 has been made faster to set it further apart from the GTE field. This even led to some questioning the viability of 'gentlemen drivers'.

 

If such a situation were to emerge, the LMP1 and LMP2 categories could be in need of some rethinking. Again.

[ArrowsLivery]

To me it’s clear that there is no need for two separate prototype classes. Why split an already small field into 2?

[Nonesuch]

Having different categories allows the ACO to (somewhat) control prices for each. The teams that can afford LMP2 now don't necessarily have the ability to run an LMP1 team in 2019.

 

Then again, the ACO - or the FIA for that matter - aren't really the kind of organisations that have shown themselves to be particularly dependable when it comes to controlling team budgets.

[TF110]

You must be joking. 7 “Ginettas” does not make the class healthy. This is the worst the top prototype class has looked since everybody left after 1999.

7 cars being sold is not 7 cars being run.    First of all, they announced a purchase of 3 cars, which means a two-car team with a spare chassis. Then Dragonspeed announced they'll enter lmp1 which has yet to confirm the type of car. So that's NOT a Ginetta. And just a few days ago, Manor announced they will enter lmp1 with a single (so far) Ginetta lmp1. That means we only know of 1 confirmed Ginetta lmp1 entry, not 7. Aside the Ginetta cars, we have confirmation of at least one SMP Dallara. And ByKolles was testing last month with their own car.

 

So here's what we know so far for lmp1:

 

Ginetta- 4 or 5(?) cars sold so far. 3 to an as yet to be named team, 1 or 2 to Manor; 3 entries

Dallara- 1 or 2 SMP's; 1 entry

TBD- 1 Dragonspeed; 1 entry

 

Not confirmed but likely:

 

Toyota- 2 cars

ByKolles- 1 (hoping for 2)

 

So right now, it looks like 8 cars in lmp1 for 2018/19 can be reasonably expected. Only 3 (4 chassis) of those confirmed sales and 1 confirmed entry are Ginetta's 

Edited by TF110, 04 November 2017 - 20:09.

[ArrowsLivery]

7 cars being sold is not 7 cars being run.    First of all, they announced a purchase of 3 cars, which means a two-car team with a spare chassis. Then Dragonspeed announced they'll enter lmp1 which has yet to confirm the type of car. So that's NOT a Ginetta. And just a few days ago, Manor announced they will enter lmp1 with a single (so far) Ginetta lmp1. That means we only know of 1 confirmed Ginetta lmp1 entry, not 7. Aside the Ginetta cars, we have confirmation of at least one SMP Dallara. And ByKolles was testing last month with their own car.

 

So here's what we know so far for lmp1:

 

Ginetta- 4 or 5(?) cars sold so far. 3 to an as yet to be named team, 1 or 2 to Manor; 3 entries

Dallara- 1 or 2 SMP's; 1 entry

TBD- 1 Dragonspeed; 1 entry

 

Not confirmed but likely:

 

Toyota- 2 cars

ByKolles- 1 (hoping for 2)

 

So right now, it looks like 8 cars in lmp1 for 2018/19 can be reasonably expected. Only 3 (4 chassis) of those confirmed sales and 1 confirmed entry are Ginetta's 

 

Is it even clear yet? Nothing has been revealed so far I thought. What's interesting is that this is in addition to the mystery team who already purchased Ginetta's. So we have potential to see 3 possibly 4 of those cars on the grid. That's great because Ginetta said they see 7 cars being sold/used earlier this year. This is a big sign to all the people saying lmp1 is dead. Far from it. It looks healthier now than it has since the mid 2000's!

 

You're the one who claimed that Ginetta said they have 7 cars being sold/used. Not me. 

[DanardiF1]

Is it even clear yet? Nothing has been revealed so far I thought. What's interesting is that this is in addition to the mystery team who already purchased Ginetta's. So we have potential to see 3 possibly 4 of those cars on the grid. That's great because Ginetta said they see 7 cars being sold/used earlier this year. This is a big sign to all the people saying lmp1 is dead. Far from it. It looks healthier now than it has since the mid 2000's!

 

Manor said that if they could expand to a second car they will, but as with everything its probably down to getting the right funding to run that second car.

[DanardiF1]

Have Oreca mentioned anything about a P1 project? As I understand it their current P2 monocoque is the same or architecturally similar to the previous one which also formed the basis of the Rebellion car, so there *could* feasibly be an upgrade to make a P1 car from a very good base...

[TennisUK]

Apparently a bit more work than one might think. I suspect for one that it might be a bit heavy, at least compared to the non-Kolles LMP1s

[TF110]

You're the one who claimed that Ginetta said they have 7 cars being sold/used. Not me. 

Ok, and? The fact that they said that means there is interest in lmp1. Now we have news they apparently have sold at least 4 of them. 1 is a spare of course, but that leaves 3 from them alone that will be on the grid. I never said there will be 7 Ginetta's racing.

Edited by TF110, 05 November 2017 - 04:33.

[FLB]

Something caught my attention reading Endurance-Info's Bahrain preview:

 

Les équipes restent dans l’attente du règlement sportif 2018/2019 mais il se murmure de plus en plus que les équipes pourront changer les pneumatiques en même temps que le ravitaillement en carburant dans les différentes catégories.

 

Source: http://www.endurance...mercredi-matin/ (the quote is the last item)

 

Translation: The teams are still waiting for the 2018/2019 Sporting Regulations but it's being more and more wispered that the teams will be able to change tires at the same time as refueling in the different (all) categories.

 

Me: Ummm... WHAT???

 

In other words, is the ACO is getting ready to drop the so-called Le Mans Rules, i.e. nobodoy touches the car until refueling is done? Something that makes the Le Mans series different from everything else? Is that an opening to IMSA? Trying to have the same pitting regulations as the Americans?

[Anja]

We have 3 confirmed Dallaras - two for SMP (AER engine) and one for DragonSpeed (Gibson engine). 

 

https://www.motorspo...ontender-979877

Edited by Anja, 17 November 2017 - 17:23.

[HistoryFan]

interesting: 3 SMP cars, but 2 different engines - that's nice.

Then we have a third confirmed car (Ginetta-TBA) for 2018.

 

Looks like an interesting LMP1 private field.

 

If Toyota withdraws (what is very unlikely) we could have a good amount of cars with realistic chances for the win.

[Vielleicht]

DragonSpeed's new Dallara BR1 2018 LMP1

Edited by Vielleicht, 17 November 2017 - 17:40.

[ArrowsLivery]

Something caught my attention reading Endurance-Info's Bahrain preview:

Source: http://www.endurance...mercredi-matin/ (the quote is the last item)

Translation: The teams are still waiting for the 2018/2019 Sporting Regulations but it's being more and more wispered that the teams will be able to change tires at the same time as refueling in the different (all) categories.

Me: Ummm... WHAT???

In other words, is the ACO is getting ready to drop the so-called Le Mans Rules, i.e. nobodoy touches the car until refueling is done? Something that makes the Le Mans series different from everything else? Is that an opening to IMSA? Trying to have the same pitting regulations as the Americans?

I believe they brought in those “Le Mans rules” only around 2010 as cost savings? It’s not a long standing tradition or something.

[Victor_RO]

I believe they brought in those “Le Mans rules” only around 2010 as cost savings? It’s not a long standing tradition or something.

 

Refuelling and tire changes have been separate since the early 1990s I believe, in 2009 they just brought in a rule that said only one air gun was allowed in use (over the "garage line") at any time during a pitstop; beforehand they were allowed 2.

[TF110]

Refuelling and tire changes have been separate since the early 1990s I believe, in 2009 they just brought in a rule that said only one air gun was allowed in use (over the "garage line") at any time during a pitstop; beforehand they were allowed 2.

I liked the two guns, but now pit stops won't be as long as they were. I don't care if they refuel and change tires at the same time or not. More on track action is going to be the result.

[Vettelari]

Toyota will lap the field at every single race they don't break down. It will turn into a colossal joke. There's no way Toyota will approve of themselves getting BOP'd out of wins to teams with a tenth of the budget as them.

[ArrowsLivery]

Refuelling and tire changes have been separate since the early 1990s I believe, in 2009 they just brought in a rule that said only one air gun was allowed in use (over the "garage line") at any time during a pitstop; beforehand they were allowed 2.

My mistake. I recall there was one year at LM where Audi beat Peugeot mostly on faster pitstops. They were still using the open cockpit. I guess it must’ve been 2008?