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2019 Formula One Silly Season


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#51 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:35

I think if Ricciardo left for Mercedes or Ferrari than Sainz would be moved to Red Bull as per his contract. 

its a shame for him I can truly see Renault having the edge on Red Bull in 2019 and 2020


Edited by sladealonso, 03 November 2017 - 12:36.


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#52 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:39

Mercedes will be looking for an option for Bottas for 2019 and they will have their eyes fixed on Ocons continued development. Ricciardo will flirt with Mercedes as he is suddenly seeing his momentum at Red Bull be stolen by Verstappen but Mercedes will be hesitant as they have options in both Bottas short-term and Ocon long-term. If Ocon continues in 2018 as he has in 2017 Mercedes will have their eyes fixed on him for 2019, while they are extending their contract with Hamilton for a further three years and granting him more freedom outside the car. 

 

Ricciardo will also be flirting with Ferrari and they will be somewhat interested, but just as Mercedes they have their eyes fixed on a young talent coming up the ranks with them. However, unless Leclerc massively impressed at Sauber in 2018 they might feel that it will e too early to bring him in alongside Vettel in 2019. That is a dilemma for Ferrari, but they still have Kimi who will raise his game slightly in 2018 and enough to convince Ferrari he is a valid short-term option for another year while Leclerc gets a chance to develop at Sauber before being brought into Ferrari in 2020. 

 

So that is another door half-open but in the end shut for Ricciardo. McLaren has at this point started to win the odd race and get the odd podium or two but they can't consistenly challenge Mercedes and Ferrari for the title despite Alonsos six tenths and they struggle to fend off a re-bord Red Bull who is now an outside title contender. The fact is also that Alonso can't decided whether to retire from F1 or not for 2019 and drags out on his decision so there is not a slot open at McLaren for Ricciardo who are looking to keep Vandoorne on. 

 

Renault is fighting with Force India and shows glimpses of better pace but they still can't crack into top 4 in the championship and now McLaren is up there as well. Ricciardo does not feel that is a step forward. 

 

So he is left with extending with Red Bull but Red Bull is calm about the whole thing because they already have Verstappen on board and even if they prefer to keep Ricciardo as well, they always have Sainz as an option. Sainz is now leading Renault and has put Hulkenberg in his place, and racks up some podiums while Hulkenberg has fourth, fifth and sixth places. Solid but unspectactular where as Sainz is emerging as a new player in F1. Red Bull therefore can afford to take their time with Ricciardo who suddenly realises he has no real options outside extending with Red Bull and so he does for a 2 + 1 year contract.

 

Sainz is subsequently released from Red Bull to Renault and no longer on loan from Red Bull. 

 

Mercedes and Ferrari are clam, they both have their respective solid but unspectacular Finn to extend with for another year while waiting for their respective young French talent to be ready to step up to the main team, where they both have their star driver safely secured. 

So Ricciardo is left with resigning with Red Bull as he can't wait for Alonso to decide what to do at McLaren and not eager to take a step back to Renault where he would replace Sainz who would take his then vacant seat at Red Bull. 

 

And the pieces slots into place, and Ricciardo will have to prepare himself to take the fight to Verstappen on and off-track and within the team before that becomes Team Verstappen. 

There you go. 

 

I can definitely see this occurring but I fancy Ricciardo to gamble and take the plunge into "Hamiltons team" for 2019 and Ocon will end up being Hamilton's successor down the line this I think will put Sainz in a Red Bull and Bottas will take the Renault seat as he's a proven winner it'll look good for them



#53 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:42

I think there won't be an opportunity for him to gamble as Mercedes will be looking elsewhere, just as Ferrari will do. 

 

They are both in identical situations - one star driver secured indefinetely, with a trusty stop-gap Finn in the short term while waiting for their young French talent to be ready to move up. 

 

Ricciardos gamble is to stay at Red Bull and take the fight to Verstappen while working together to challenge Mercedes and Ferrari off the top spots. 



#54 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:45

hhmmm... christmas music before thanksgiving?



#55 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:46

Ricciardo isn't going anywhere..

 

he will pair with Max until 2020 at least..



#56 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:47

but is he better off even at Renault or if Alonso goes McLaren because of Red Bulls engine situation, are Red Bull really going to be championship challengers if they have a Honda in the back I don't think so


Edited by sladealonso, 03 November 2017 - 12:47.


#57 Maxioos

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 13:07

but is he better off even at Renault or if Alonso goes McLaren because of Red Bulls engine situation, are Red Bull really going to be championship challengers if they have a Honda in the back I don't think so

 

You let it sound like it's a fact.

 

Nobody knows what RBR plans related to enige are. But, most think it (plan) has to be there and has to be good because of Max his extension.



#58 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 13:31

You let it sound like it's a fact.

 

Nobody knows what RBR plans related to enige are. But, most think it (plan) has to be there and has to be good because of Max his extension.

im not so confident for them it seems like there only option at the moment



#59 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 14:06

its a shame for him I can truly see Renault having the edge on Red Bull in 2019 and 2020

that's hilarious..

 

are they going to poach Newey like they did the FIA guy??



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#60 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 14:07

but is he better off even at Renault or if Alonso goes McLaren because of Red Bulls engine situation, are Red Bull really going to be championship challengers if they have a Honda in the back I don't think so

hilarious...  again..

 

edit: It doesn't matter what engine red bull has..


Edited by kevinracefan, 03 November 2017 - 14:10.


#61 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 14:09

I think aided by the fact Red Bull only loaned him out to Renault. Why would they do that if they don’t see a future at Red Bull for him?

That was before Max extended his contract with Red Bull

Sainz and Verstappen got along fine in 2015, it was more people involved around them that didn’t get along.

I remember Marko saying that the problems between Verstappen and Sainz was also a reason for Max' promotion to Red Bull, they had to do something about the toxic situation at Toro Rosso. The two camps behind the drivers certainly played an important role, but I didn't have the impression Carlos and Max got along very well also.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 03 November 2017 - 14:09.


#62 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 15:38

that's hilarious..

 

are they going to poach Newey like they did the FIA guy??

 

Having  a Honda PU will more than balance out Newey, just look at McLaren who are widely considered to have a top drawer chassis, and with a Renault team as a whole on the rise they aren't going to be mid pack forever they are going to slowly move forward, while a Honda powered Red Bull can only go backwards

hilarious...  again..

 

edit: It doesn't matter what engine red bull has..

That's just being naïve if you truly believe Red Bull could fight at the front with a Honda, they are just about doing that with there current vastly superior model of PU



#63 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 15:48

Having  a Honda PU will more than balance out Newey, just look at McLaren who are widely considered to have a top drawer chassis, and with a Renault team as a whole on the rise they aren't going to be mid pack forever they are going to slowly move forward, while a Honda powered Red Bull can only go backwards

That's just being naïve if you truly believe Red Bull could fight at the front with a Honda, they are just about doing that with there current vastly superior model of PU

first off, neither you nor anybody else knows what lump they'll run in 2019..

 

nothing but posturing going on at the moment..

 

secondly, that Honda is NOW faster than all the Renaults but Red Bulls, if you haven't been watching..

 

absolutely zero way to KNOW which lump will be better by then.. they BOTH BLOW UP too often...

 

thirdly, Red Bull has the current best chassis to evolve from, with no major rules changes expected.. (have you seen them run the last 4 races?)

 

forthly (fourthly?) Red Bull has the best in season development record for the past 8 years..

 

I'm not the naive one...



#64 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 15:52

first off, neither you nor anybody else knows what lump they'll run in 2019..

 

nothing but posturing going on at the moment..

 

secondly, that Honda is NOW faster than all the Renaults but Red Bulls, if you haven't been watching..

 

absolutely zero way to KNOW which lump will be better by then.. they BOTH BLOW UP too often...

 

thirdly, Red Bull has the current best chassis to evolve from, with no major rules changes expected.. (have you seen them run the last 4 races?)

 

forthly (fourthly?) Red Bull has the best in season development record for the past 8 years..

 

I'm not the naive one...

McLaren not Honda and that's painfully obvious, although there is no denying Red Bull are the Gold standard for chassis development and aero as a whole I stand by the fact that Honda have shown little signs of turning up with an engine to match any of the others they should be able to close up I agree but I doubt they will be able to anywhere near enough and Red Bull would end up imo fighting Force india behind the works Renault and McLaren but obviously as you say we cant be sure just my 2 cents.



#65 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 16:00

McLaren not Honda and that's painfully obvious, although there is no denying Red Bull are the Gold standard for chassis development and aero as a whole I stand by the fact that Honda have shown little signs of turning up with an engine to match any of the others they should be able to close up I agree but I doubt they will be able to anywhere near enough and Red Bull would end up imo fighting Force india behind the works Renault and McLaren but obviously as you say we cant be sure just my 2 cents.

#wewillsee together..



#66 sladealonso

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 16:18

#wewillsee together..

 

only time will tell...



#67 SonGoku

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 16:27

I get the feeling that Mercedes are very very happy with the Hamilton-Bottas combination and you can't blame them. It depends on BOT, if he can grow and improve, I don't see why Mercedes wouldn't continue with him.



#68 Whatisvalis

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 17:57

With Vet and Ves extending 2019 is already a little dull. If Red Bull continue their pace next year then DR will probably stay on - I hope he goes to Merc, but he is probably key to driver movements.

More fun to speculate who will lose their drive and be out of F1.

#69 kevinracefan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 18:14

Ricciardo wants to be a Red Bull guy.. He gets to do awesome stuff, on their dime, because he's in the club...

 

he's going to give them every possible chance to be quick enough to stay..



#70 Trust

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 18:16

Next year is Bottas last year in Mercedes. In a much tougher competiton his lack of pace will reveal his flaws in Constructors championship.



#71 RandomG

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 04:24

If Alonso and Vandoorne are both at McLaren on long-term contracts, I wonder how exactly Lando Norris is going to find his way into Formula One in the near future?

 

Red Bull probably wouldn't take him because he is not on their programme whilst Ocon and Leclerc are being lined up for Mercedes and Ferrari respectively. Unless Alonso or Vandoorne are definately not racing as they could be next year, then I think it could be quite awhile before Norris actually makes it to F1.



#72 efuloni

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 06:20

I cant see why Mercedes would hire Riccardo if Ocon keeps performing the way he is. Either they would stay one more year with Bottas (unlikely) or they will get Ocon, since I believe he proved himself good enough (at least just as much as Bottas did in Williams). So, Daniel will likely go to Ferrari. Kimi is old and Ferrari is just waiting for someone solid and reliable to take his seat. Ferrari usually does not gamble in theirs seats, so I wouldnt bet in LeClerc. They will wait a few more years to replace Vettel with a young gun (LeClerc or someone else)

)



#73 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 10:38

If Alonso and Vandoorne are both at McLaren on long-term contracts, I wonder how exactly Lando Norris is going to find his way into Formula One in the near future?

Red Bull probably wouldn't take him because he is not on their programme whilst Ocon and Leclerc are being lined up for Mercedes and Ferrari respectively. Unless Alonso or Vandoorne are definately not racing as they could be next year, then I think it could be quite awhile before Norris actually makes it to F1.

They’ll probably bench Norris a few years like they did with Vandoorne. Formula 2 next year, Super Formula in Japan the year after. And by 2020 surely Alonso is close to retirement as well.

Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc and Norris are surely the future of F1, battling for the World Championships.

#74 sladealonso

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 10:40

If Alonso and Vandoorne are both at McLaren on long-term contracts, I wonder how exactly Lando Norris is going to find his way into Formula One in the near future?

 

Red Bull probably wouldn't take him because he is not on their programme whilst Ocon and Leclerc are being lined up for Mercedes and Ferrari respectively. Unless Alonso or Vandoorne are definately not racing as they could be next year, then I think it could be quite awhile before Norris actually makes it to F1.

They could make him do Super Formula to keep him busy but then maybe drop him in somewhere like Sauber for a year or two



#75 noikeee

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 18:44

I lost my faith in Vandoorne after this season tbh. He can still turn it around and have a good career, but I'm struggling to imagine him turning into a world champion now.

With Renault engines at McLaren and a year of experience there will be no excuses and no place to hide next season, we'll get a proper measure on him vs Alonso. I could very easily see Alonso moving in 1 year time and/or Vandoorne not proving himself enough, both things could make way for Norris. Either way there's no guarantee Norris will be brilliant on the first year of F2 already, even if I do think he's very very good and with tons of potential, so there could be no reason to rush him for '19 already.

Edited by noikeee, 04 November 2017 - 18:45.


#76 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 20:08

They could make him do Super Formula to keep him busy but then maybe drop him in somewhere like Sauber for a year or two

 

I can't imagine Norris will be accommodated in a Honda powered Super Formula team.  :eek:



#77 sopa

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 20:25

I lost my faith in Vandoorne after this season tbh. He can still turn it around and have a good career, but I'm struggling to imagine him turning into a world champion now.

 

 

Rosberg got beaten by Webber in his first full F1 season, yet he became World Champion. Same with Button early in his career.

 

But you are probably right about him not being in the very elite, so a level short of the likes of Verstappen. Still he could achieve some great results if the stars align.



#78 lustigson

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:51

I lost my faith in Vandoorne after this season tbh. He can still turn it around and have a good career, but I'm struggling to imagine him turning into a world champion now.

 

He did score more points than his double-WDC team-mate...  :drunk:



#79 noikeee

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:26

He did score more points than his double-WDC team-mate...  :drunk:

Which isn't representative of what's going on in the slightest.



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#80 Marklar

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:28

He did score more points than his double-WDC team-mate... :drunk:

So did Ricciardo against Max or Stroll against Massa. By now people should realize how representative points are.

#81 Nonesuch

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:32

He did score more points than his double-WDC team-mate...  :drunk:

 

True, but his average finishing position is two places lower.

 

Alonso has retired 11 times in 17 races. McLaren-Honda is an utter joke.

 

At the same time it's not like Alonso's had all the issues, and not all issues instantly lead to retirements, so judging Vandoorne too harshly seems a bit odd as well.

 

Getting a good view of drivers in a backmarker team is always a bit tricky.


Edited by Nonesuch, 06 November 2017 - 10:34.


#82 TheFish

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:34

It seems like it all depends on Ricciardo. If he finds himself not in a Red Bull then we might have some decent musical chairs.

 

Silly season seems to have been a let down for a while now btw, even with the shock Rosberg retirement we haven't had anything much happen since Vettel to Ferrari, Alonso to McLaren in 2014.


Edited by TheFish, 06 November 2017 - 10:35.


#83 lustigson

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:52

Which isn't representative of what's going on in the slightest.

 

So did Ricciardo against Max or Stroll against Massa. By now people should realize how representative points are.

 

True, but his average finishing position is two places lower.

 

Dude(tte)s!  :p  :clap:



#84 Vettelari

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 13:25

I would think that McLaren would be more likely to "park" Norris in IndyCar than in Super Formula. The ties are obvious after what we all watched go on with Alonso last year. I think that would be a safer bet than Super Formula at this point. A year or two in IndyCar followed by a year or two in Sauber.



#85 lustigson

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 15:09

I suspect Lando Norris will do one, perhaps even two seasons of Formula 2. That will take him to a possible 2019 Formula 1 debut at 20 years of age.

 

If there's no spot at McLaren by then, due to Alonso's retirement or Vandoorne moving on, Norris'll probably do a (number of) season(s) at other teams.

 

Alternatively, still being only 20, he could do an additional season of Super Formula... probably with a Toyota-powered team.  :)



#86 AustinF1

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:22

Among his talking of loving F1 and wanting to stay for a long time, etc, Lewis keeps dropping little things like this... https://sports.yahoo...l-sh&soc_trk=tw

 

 

"The question is how much longer [do] I want to commit to this sport," Hamilton told Globo Esporte ahead of this weekend's Brazilian GP.

 
"I know it won't be much longer because I also want to do other things like having a family and business. 
 
"There are other challenges for me."


#87 RaikkonenFan96

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 17:36

Among his talking of loving F1 and wanting to stay for a long time, etc, Lewis keeps dropping little things like this... https://sports.yahoo...l-sh&soc_trk=tw

 

Until he matches or gets ahead of Schumi in WDC's likely. And likely in wins too.

 

 

 

When you think about it, with bit better luck Lewis would already be 6 time WDC. Thats insane in my opinion.


Edited by RaikkonenFan96, 11 November 2017 - 17:37.


#88 AustinF1

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 17:44

WeWillSee.



#89 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 19:07

Apparently Speedweek is already convinced Ferrari will renew Raikkonen’s contract for 2019 as well. Ferrari doesn’t want to pair Ricciardo with Vettel again and Leclerc isn’t deemed ready after one season at Sauber.

No idea where they base this info on, as the 2018 season hasn’t even started yet..

#90 BillBald

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 23:16

Apparently Speedweek is already convinced Ferrari will renew Raikkonen’s contract for 2019 as well. Ferrari doesn’t want to pair Ricciardo with Vettel again and Leclerc isn’t deemed ready after one season at Sauber.

No idea where they base this info on, as the 2018 season hasn’t even started yet..

 

I think it depends on Renault. If they do a really good job on the engine, that will put Red Bull on par with Ferrari, and hopefully McLaren and maybe even sometimes Renault will become competitive.

 

Where would that leave Kimi? Struggling to look good, I think.



#91 sopa

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 00:52

I think it depends on Renault. If they do a really good job on the engine, that will put Red Bull on par with Ferrari, and hopefully McLaren and maybe even sometimes Renault will become competitive.

 

Where would that leave Kimi? Struggling to look good, I think.

 

Red Bull being competitive with Ferrari would also mean Ricciardo would have less incentive to change teams. Though he might think facing Vettel would be an easier task than facing an ever-maturing Verstappen, but who knows.

 

Kimi has been expected to leave each season and yet each season Ferrari keeps extending him. However, the difference between this and previous silly seasons is that Ricciardo is on the market. Ferrari should at least try to get him, regardless of the outcome of negotiations.



#92 noikeee

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:22

Apparently Speedweek is already convinced Ferrari will renew Raikkonen’s contract for 2019 as well. Ferrari doesn’t want to pair Ricciardo with Vettel again and Leclerc isn’t deemed ready after one season at Sauber.

No idea where they base this info on, as the 2018 season hasn’t even started yet..


Makes sense, but if next year Kimi is crap and Leclerc is great they might be forced to do it.

Also I wonder what the hell is their long term plan if Leclerc flops.

#93 sopa

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:36

Also I wonder what the hell is their long term plan if Leclerc flops.

 

Obviously Raikkonen will be racing in 2022. Long-term enough?   ;)  :p  



#94 SenorSjon

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:42

Makes sense, but if next year Kimi is crap and Leclerc is great they might be forced to do it.

Also I wonder what the hell is their long term plan if Leclerc flops.

 

Their usual solution is to throw a lot of money at a driver they want. They will want to get Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso and/or Ricciardo.



#95 Radion

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:43

ANOTHER year of suffering for me as a Kimi fan? Please, make it stop :cry:


Edited by Radion, 19 December 2017 - 08:43.


#96 dau

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:35

Makes sense, but if next year Kimi is crap and Leclerc is great they might be forced to do it.

Also I wonder what the hell is their long term plan if Leclerc flops.

Just get some other driver, of course. Ferrari isn't exactly known for being desperate to use their own junior drivers after all.



#97 sopa

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:43

If Leclerc flops and they don't/can't hire Ricciardo, then seriously I don't know, what else Ferrari would do other than re-signing Raikkonen.

 

Perez or Hulkenberg or Grosjean don't have a chance imho, they have been passed on so many times already, it doesn't make sense any more.

 

There might be a slim chance of signing Ocon or Sainz, but it is conditional on two factors:

 

- they must pretty well beat their team-mates (apparently the same Perez and Hulk, who are nobodies in Ferrari's book)

- whatever contractual tie they have with their 'owner team' (Merc and RBR) must come to an end.

 

Or if Mercedes releases Bottas - and prefers Ocon or Ricciardo - , then the younger Finn might find a way to Ferrari.

 

Otherwise Kimi will stay all the way and doesn't frankly matter, how he performs - as long as he is good for "team athmosphere".  :p



#98 noikeee

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:19

Their usual solution is to throw a lot of money at a driver they want. They will want to get Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso and/or Ricciardo.

 

 

Just get some other driver, of course. Ferrari isn't exactly known for being desperate to use their own junior drivers after all.

 

But what other driver. If they're not willing to pair Vettel with Ricciardo now I'm very skeptical they're gonna wanna do it later, or pair him with another A-list driver like Hamilton, Verstappen etc. So they'd effectively need to go shop for a #2.

 

 

If Leclerc flops and they don't/can't hire Ricciardo, then seriously I don't know, what else Ferrari would do other than re-signing Raikkonen.

 

Perez or Hulkenberg or Grosjean don't have a chance imho, they have been passed on so many times already, it doesn't make sense any more.

 

There might be a slim chance of signing Ocon or Sainz, but it is conditional on two factors:

 

- they must pretty well beat their team-mates (apparently the same Perez and Hulk, who are nobodies in Ferrari's book)

- whatever contractual tie they have with their 'owner team' (Merc and RBR) must come to an end.

 

Or if Mercedes releases Bottas - and prefers Ocon or Ricciardo - , then the younger Finn might find a way to Ferrari.

 

Otherwise Kimi will stay all the way and doesn't frankly matter, how he performs - as long as he is good for "team athmosphere".  :p

 

I was thinking along these lines, I could see a scenario where Ocon gets a Mercedes promotion and Bottas ends up at Ferrari. But that only happens if Ocon keeps looking good and Leclerc doesn't look good.



#99 BCM

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 01:27

The story on Autosport about Ferrari giving Raikonnen next year to lift his game also has Marchionne talking about Leclerc, Verstappen and Giovannizzi. No mention of Ricciardo.

 

He may very well end up stuck at RB.


Edited by BCM, 20 December 2017 - 01:28.


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#100 HermannH

HermannH
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  • 1,200 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 20 December 2017 - 03:24

If Max outperforms Daniel massively next year without bad luck, I don't think Ferrari will hire him..

Why? Ferrari has a history of hiring those who are getting destroyed by their teammates at Red Bull.