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2019 Formula One Silly Season


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#101 Afaf

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 05:43

Raikkonen is still in the conversation? Bewildering.



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#102 DeVol

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:22

Raikkonen is still in the conversation? Bewildering.

 

Leave them alone, they know what they are doing.  :yawnface:



#103 Fondmetal

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 08:06

2018 hasn’t even started and your talking about 2019? Lol

#104 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 08:09

2018 hasn’t even started and your talking about 2019? Lol


Silly season threads have always started a couple of years before the season in question. Partly because of the long lead time of such deals and partly because by the end of a season the next season’s silly season is usually just about complete.

#105 sopa

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 08:58

The story on Autosport about Ferrari giving Raikonnen next year to lift his game also has Marchionne talking about Leclerc, Verstappen and Giovannizzi. No mention of Ricciardo.

 

Marchionne already said in 2017 that Raikkonen needs to lift his game. Still retained him though. Words don't mean anything, action means.



#106 noikeee

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:02

The story on Autosport about Ferrari giving Raikonnen next year to lift his game also has Marchionne talking about Leclerc, Verstappen and Giovannizzi. No mention of Ricciardo.

 

He may very well end up stuck at RB.

I think Vettel would be even more horrified at the idea of having Verstappen as team-mate than Ricciardo. Though Max is such a major prospect and so far ahead from anyone else in his age range, that Ferrari might want to snap him up regardless, even if it enrages Vettel and causes team meltdown, to secure their future. I could imagine something like a Seb/Max superstar duo for a season, then Seb goes away and it's Max/Leclerc the next season. But Max is under Red Bull contract for 2019, surely?
 
As for Giovinazzi, there's no snowball's chance in hell that he's a full-time Ferrari driver in 2019, unless he gets a midseason seat next year somewhere then drives like the next Senna, and/or there's a couple of driver injuries (*touches wood*). Leclerc's ahead of him on the pecking order. I suspect Marchionne only mentions Giovinazzi to motivate him and to appease the Italian press.


#107 Ragnar668

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:32

 

I think Vettel would be even more horrified at the idea of having Verstappen as team-mate than Ricciardo. Though Max is such a major prospect and so far ahead from anyone else in his age range, that Ferrari might want to snap him up regardless, even if it enrages Vettel and causes team meltdown, to secure their future. I could imagine something like a Seb/Max superstar duo for a season, then Seb goes away and it's Max/Leclerc the next season. But Max is under Red Bull contract for 2019, surely?
 
As for Giovinazzi, there's no snowball's chance in hell that he's a full-time Ferrari driver in 2019, unless he gets a midseason seat next year somewhere then drives like the next Senna, and/or there's a couple of driver injuries (*touches wood*). Leclerc's ahead of him on the pecking order. I suspect Marchionne only mentions Giovinazzi to motivate him and to appease the Italian press.

 

VER until the end of 2020, allthough it's widely believed there is some sort of performance clausule in the contract. Because it was there before he extended.
Don't know about the contract of VET, but if he looses his cool again like Baku 2017 and Mexico 2016, think Ferrari will act accordingly   

 

edit: VET untill the end of 2020 also


Edited by Ragnar668, 20 December 2017 - 10:33.


#108 AnR

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:47

 

I think Vettel would be even more horrified at the idea of having Verstappen as team-mate than Ricciardo. Though Max is such a major prospect and so far ahead from anyone else in his age range, that Ferrari might want to snap him up regardless, even if it enrages Vettel and causes team meltdown, to secure their future. I could imagine something like a Seb/Max superstar duo for a season, then Seb goes away and it's Max/Leclerc the next season. But Max is under Red Bull contract for 2019, surely?
 
As for Giovinazzi, there's no snowball's chance in hell that he's a full-time Ferrari driver in 2019, unless he gets a midseason seat next year somewhere then drives like the next Senna, and/or there's a couple of driver injuries (*touches wood*). Leclerc's ahead of him on the pecking order. I suspect Marchionne only mentions Giovinazzi to motivate him and to appease the Italian press.

 

 

Why on earth would Vettel be "horrified", strange, probably true though that none off the big teams drivers wants to face Max as a teammate.

Especially after splitting the dominant Merc in 2017, and for the first time in 4 years any team nearly could bring it down the line

 

The only veto I've heard off is from the Merc team when Bottas replaced Rosberg.


Edited by AnR, 20 December 2017 - 11:16.


#109 as65p

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:06

But what other driver. If they're not willing to pair Vettel with Ricciardo now I'm very skeptical they're gonna wanna do it later, or pair him with another A-list driver like Hamilton, Verstappen etc. So they'd effectively need to go shop for a #2.

 

 

Obviously the current dynamic is to maximize in the best possible way all departments around Vettel, so he can win championship(s), and that would ideally include a supportive teammate but good enough to bother Vettels direct rivals. Which I think is practically a very elusive combination.

 

IMO that dynamic would only change in case Vettel keeps doing stupid stuff like in 2017, then they would probably look for another no.1, which could mean going after Verstappen. I can't really imagine Ferrari ever going for a "get the fastest two possible and let them fight it out" approach.

 

From a pragmatic POV I can understand how hard it is to replace Kimi. He's clearly ticking all the boxes for "perfect no.2 for Vettel", except ultimate performance, while bringing in someone, anyone new could rock the boat in a number of ways.



#110 sopa

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:16

 

From a pragmatic POV I can understand how hard it is to replace Kimi. He's clearly ticking all the boxes for "perfect no.2 for Vettel", except ultimate performance, while bringing in someone, anyone new could rock the boat in a number of ways.

 

Raikkonen is like Irvine then. Nobody ever thought Irvine was among the best drivers on the grid, many considered even several midfielders superior to him - including Barrichello, who later replaced him. But Irvine was thought to be the best #2, ultimate team player, so that he even survived his underwhelming 1996 and 1997 campaigns.

 

But in the end even Irvine was replaced, or perhaps partly he himself wanted to leave, seeing an opportunity in Jaguar to be something other than a #2 for a change. Nobody should be irreplaceable, certainly not a #2 driver. But Ferrari thinks Raikkonen is irreplaceable.



#111 Jovanotti

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:00

Raikkonen is like Irvine then

That's certainly one of the more creative analogies I've read here so far. Maybe Kimi will even manage to be compared to the one and only Yuji Ide one day.

Edited by Jovanotti, 20 December 2017 - 12:01.


#112 noikeee

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:14

Why on earth would Vettel be "horrified", strange, probably true though that none off the big teams drivers wants to face Max as a teammate.

 

Well, you answered it yourself on the same sentence.

 

People have been saying Ferrari will hire Ricciardo to partner Vettel for years, and I've been saying for years it's a stupid idea that won't happen. They're stable with Vettel and don't want to risk potentially pissing him off and/or unsettle stability in the team, by hiring the only driver that has outdriven him as team-mate in F1. To go for Verstappen which seems even quicker than Ricciardo, doesn't sound like a better idea on that regard. Unless they're desperate to secure Max for their future, even if it comes at the risk of destabilizing Vettel's relationship with the team.

 

I don't think any driver has any veto neither (at least not at the moment), these theories are just common sense to keep the team happy. Although as a fan I say bring it on, Max v Seb sounds fun.



#113 johnmhinds

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:16

A number 2 driver is someone who you expect to step up his game and take the place of your number 1 driver if he drops out of the race.

Räikkönen hasn’t been that kind of driver for a couple of years now, the guys around him are all more likely to take the initiative given the chance.

#114 johnmhinds

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:23

Well, you answered it yourself on the same sentence.

People have been saying Ferrari will hire Ricciardo to partner Vettel for years, and I've been saying for years it's a stupid idea that won't happen. They're stable with Vettel and don't want to risk potentially pissing him off and/or unsettle stability in the team, by hiring the only driver that has outdriven him as team-mate in F1. To go for Verstappen which seems even quicker than Ricciardo, doesn't sound like a better idea on that regard. Unless they're desperate to secure Max for their future, even if it comes at the risk of destabilizing Vettel's relationship with the team.

I don't think any driver has any veto neither (at least not at the moment), these theories are just common sense to keep the team happy. Although as a fan I say bring it on, Max v Seb sounds fun.


You’re working on the assumption that those other drivers are faster or more consistent than Vettel, Ferrari must have some data that shows they aren’t.

They could have easily signed up both Verstappen and Ricciardo by now and dumped Vettel if they believed they were faster than him.

#115 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:37

Norris will be on the grid for McLaren, most likely in the seat that was once Vandoorne's.

 

By then we'll have a battle between LeClerc at Ferrari, Verstappen at Red Bull and Norris at McLaren. Mercedes will be out of the game.



#116 noikeee

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:47

You’re working on the assumption that those other drivers are faster or more consistent than Vettel, Ferrari must have some data that shows they aren’t.

They could have easily signed up both Verstappen and Ricciardo by now and dumped Vettel if they believed they were faster than him.

I don't think they're 100% certain that Ricciardo is quicker than Vettel in all conditions, and I don't think they have had the opportunity to hire Verstappen recently, nor did he have enough experience to lead the team previously.
 
So to put it short I think they rate Max's speed higher, Dan's speed probably a wee bit higher but uncertain, and it just hasn't been worth the risk and the price (I'm not so sure they could've been "easily signed up" without some serious cash exchange) to go for them yet.


#117 sopa

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:52

I'm not sure Ricciardo is rated higher than Vettel, and also I think there must have been some window to hire him. It's not like he signed a solid 5-year-contract with Red Bull till the end of 2018, back in 2013.

 

However, with Max it's different. But even if you are very talented, it's very rare to get hired into a top team straightaway. And also Red Bull has been proactive to sign him up on very long deals, so that it would take lots of money and lawyers to get him released from that. Not worth the hassle unless he has a performance clause to execute.



#118 Ragnar668

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 13:11

Norris will be on the grid for McLaren, most likely in the seat that was once Vandoorne's.

 

By then we'll have a battle between LeClerc at Ferrari, Verstappen at Red Bull and Norris at McLaren. Mercedes will be out of the game.

 

Ocon



#119 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 14:14

They could have easily signed up both Verstappen and Ricciardo by now and dumped Vettel if they believed they were faster than him.

 

Notwithstanding that both Verstappen and Ricciardo are on contract to RBR!?  :rolleyes:



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#120 johnmhinds

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 14:31

Notwithstanding that both Verstappen and Ricciardo are on contract to RBR!?  :rolleyes:

Vettel had a year left on his contract with Red Bull that he broke and Alonso had two years left on his contract when he left Ferrari.

 

F1 contracts don't mean a lot once people have decided they want to move on.



#121 as65p

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 16:13

Maybe Kimi will even manage to be compared to the one and only Yuji Ide one day.

 

Be careful what you wish for. Sometime during his apprently life-long Ferrari engagement he's bound to get to that level.  :D



#122 kevinracefan

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 17:31

hilarious..

 

more data needed...

 

#boredomthread



#123 kevinracefan

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 17:33

A number 2 driver is someone who you expect to step up his game and take the place of your number 1 driver if he drops out of the race.

Räikkönen hasn’t been that kind of driver for a couple of years now, the guys around him are all more likely to take the initiative given the chance.

are we forgetting Kimi would've won a race if not for bad strategy?



#124 BRG

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 19:55

Silly season threads have always started a couple of years before the season in question. Partly because of the long lead time of such deals and partly because by the end of a season the next season’s silly season is usually just about complete.

And the earlier they start, the sillier they can be.  As this thread is already showing.

 

 

But no mention yet of Kubica?  Isn't he going to be at Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull in 2019?  He is going to organise a shoot-out to see which team he choses.



#125 Ivanhoe

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 20:06

Vettel had a year left on his contract with Red Bull that he broke and Alonso had two years left on his contract when he left Ferrari.
 
F1 contracts don't mean a lot once people have decided they want to move on.

Different situation, unlike Max and Dan, Vettel had a get-out clause in his contract.

#126 Anuity

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 21:46

I can totally see Ferrari keeping Kimi for one more year. And then taking a bet on Leclerc or Verstappen (if stars align). See no reason for Ferrari to take Ricciardo honestly.

Edited by Anuity, 20 December 2017 - 21:47.


#127 SilverArrow31

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 21:48

Different situation, unlike Max and Dan, Vettel had a get-out clause in his contract.


Verstappen surely has performance based break out clauses in his new contract, i wouldnt be that shocked if Riccardo does on his current contract either. They would be mad not to with Honda on the horizon.

#128 Anuity

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 21:53

Mercedes are happy with Hamilton, one of the reasons they got him a number 2 this year. Ferrari are happy with Seb. it's clear that short term neither team is interested Un Verstappen.

#129 MastaKink

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 02:38

Verstappen surely has performance based break out clauses in his new contract, i wouldnt be that shocked if Riccardo does on his current contract either. They would be mad not to with Honda on the horizon.

 

Apparently Marko said on Austrian TV that he and Max visited Sakura before he signed his extension and that's what crossed the line for Max so he doesn't look to be put off about Honda but yeah I'd hope he covered himself in case they fail.

 

Read it on F1technical so no idea if it's true but here's the post from Snorked..

 

Verstappen visited Honda Sakura before he resigned for Red Bull:

Red Bull announced at the end of October that Verstappen extended its contract with the team until the end of 2020. Marko said in the Austrian TV program Sport und Talk : "We have simply explained to him what our plans for the future look like and we have assured him that all top people in the team up to 2020 are under contract with us, and that we have an alternative engine, we flew to Honda in Sakura, where they have a fantastic factory, and that's what crossed the line. "



#130 Ragnar668

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 06:32

Apparently Marko said on Austrian TV that he and Max visited Sakura before he signed his extension and that's what crossed the line for Max so he doesn't look to be put off about Honda but yeah I'd hope he covered himself in case they fail.

 

Read it on F1technical so no idea if it's true but here's the post from Snorked..

 

Verstappen visited Honda Sakura before he resigned for Red Bull:

Red Bull announced at the end of October that Verstappen extended its contract with the team until the end of 2020. Marko said in the Austrian TV program Sport und Talk : "We have simply explained to him what our plans for the future look like and we have assured him that all top people in the team up to 2020 are under contract with us, and that we have an alternative engine, we flew to Honda in Sakura, where they have a fantastic factory, and that's what crossed the line. "

Don't know if this is mentioned in the F1technical  part, but Marko also said they we're keeing their key personel for the years to come.

don't think Verstappen signed because the looks of the factory



#131 MastaKink

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 07:49

Don't know if this is mentioned in the F1technical  part, but Marko also said they we're keeing their key personel for the years to come.

don't think Verstappen signed because the looks of the factory

 

Yeah it's in there, the "all the top people" bit.

 

Marko suggests it's what crossed the line rather than being the sole reason or anything. I'm sure there was lots of factors that contributed. 



#132 StanBarrett2

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 08:01

Verstappen surely has performance based break out clauses in his new contract,

No need to worry !!!!, Jos would never approve if Max's management hadn't taken care of that.



#133 SenorSjon

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:24

are we forgetting Kimi would've won a race if not for bad strategy?

 

But he should have be more on the front end to grab victories. Verstappen won 2 races and Ricciardo 1 in the inferior Red Bull. Kimi was saved by the woefull Renault reliability, otherwise he would have ended up 6th in the WDC-standings.



#134 Ragnar668

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:31

Yeah it's in there, the "all the top people" bit.

 

Marko suggests it's what crossed the line rather than being the sole reason or anything. I'm sure there was lots of factors that contributed. 

Of course, coudln't find the right wording in English.
meant something like if you go to Mercedes or Ferrari I'm sure the factory looks fantastic also.
bit of a non-topic



#135 MastaKink

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:45

Of course, coudln't find the right wording in English.
meant something like if you go to Mercedes or Ferrari I'm sure the factory looks fantastic also.
bit of a non-topic

 

Still worth noting Marko's comments when discussing how Max might feel about a Honda hook up on the horizon though, I thought anyway.



#136 sopa

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 13:16

"---

... we flew to Honda in Sakura, where they have a fantastic factory, and that's what crossed the line. "

 

Lol.

 

I'm sure Honda showcased their fantastic factory to Ron Dennis and Alonso back in 2014 too.

 

E: After all, that's where the legendary "piece of jewellery" quote came from.


Edited by sopa, 30 December 2017 - 13:19.


#137 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 18:18

 

I think Vettel would be even more horrified at the idea of having Verstappen as team-mate than Ricciardo. 

 

 

Vettel should drive better then !   ;)



#138 sniper80

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 20:14

Raikkonen would thrive at Williams for 2 more years.


Edited by sniper80, 30 December 2017 - 20:15.


#139 BRG

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 19:30

I am sure they would be interested in Kimi - provided he could rustle up $25m a year to pay for the seat.



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#140 MustangSally

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 10:41

I am sure they would be interested in Kimi - provided he could rustle up $25m a year to pay for the seat.

 

And maybe Kimi would be interested if Wiliiams could rustle up 8m or so.

 

Williams had first refusal on Raikonnen before and took Bottas instead.

 

'The talks didn't go the right way' said Kimi at the time.

 

Least likely scenario.



#141 HistoryFan

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 15:19

Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton - Esteban Ocon
Ferrari: Sebastian Vettel - Valtteri Bottas
Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo - Max Verstappen
Force India: Sergio Pérez - Lando Norris
Wiliams: Lance Stroll - Sergey Sirotkin
Renault: Nico Hülkenberg - Carlos Sainz
Toro Rosso: Pierre Gasly - Dan Ticktum
Haas: Romain Grosjean - Charles Leclerc
McLaren: Fernando Alonso - Stoffel Vandoorne
Sauber: Marcus Ericsson - Antonio Giovinazzi  
 



#142 jstrains

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:25

938x452.jpg

 

Neighbours and friends meet at the skiing event in Kiztbuhel AT :cat:



#143 jjcale

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 20:48

Please let there be some fire with this smoke!! 

 

Plus LH fans would love a swap .... since so many think Ferrari have the better car :D

 

http://www.givemespo...er-in-kitzbuhel 

 

Four-time Formula One World Champion, Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel, has been spotted and photographed meeting with Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff and Daimler CFO Bodo Uebber in Kitzbuhel.

 

DUK39llXkAUoTgN.jpg



#144 SonGoku

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 23:26

Please let there be some fire with this smoke!! 

 

Plus LH fans would love a swap .... since so many think Ferrari have the better car :D

 

http://www.givemespo...er-in-kitzbuhel 

 

 

 

Four-time Formula One World Champion, Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel, has been spotted and photographed meeting with Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff and Daimler CFO Bodo Uebber in Kitzbuhel.

 

 

DUK39llXkAUoTgN.jpg

 

Then Ferrari would finally have a global superstar in their car since Schumacher.



#145 aray

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:09

Max and Dan both will beat Vettel over the season in that Ferrari,but neither of them needs Ferrari to win a championship.All they need is a strong Renault engine that can compete with Merc and Ferrari and i believe that time may come as early as this year.



#146 Ricardo F1

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:50

Stroll doesn’t seriously have a deal beyond this year does he????

#147 Bleu

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:57

Stroll doesn’t seriously have a deal beyond this year does he????

I would assume his deal is more like 1+1+1+1... years than straight multi-year deal.



#148 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:17

Stroll doesn’t seriously have a deal beyond this year does he????

 

He has a deal that stretches as far as his financial support stretches. 



#149 rodlamas

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 16:43

I think that if Lewis wins a 5th, he will quit. But just a random thought.



#150 kevinracefan

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 17:32

He has a deal that stretches as far as his financial support stretches. 

similar to maldonado.. and stroll hasn't broken near as many A - arms and wings..