133 replies to this topic

[statman]

The Jenson Button topic gave me some inspiration.

 

Newey's book is out. Some pictures from the publisher:

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone ordered the book or started?

Edited by statman, 03 November 2017 - 16:59.

[Swck81]

   need to order asap.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ds=adrian newey

Edited by Swck81, 03 November 2017 - 17:04.

[V8 Fireworks]

The Jenson Button topic gave me some inspiration.

 

Anyone ordered the book or started?

 

What's funny? 

 

Seems like a good book about the basic aerodynamic principles of a modern, yet suitably superseded, F1 car...    Of course, without giving away any RBR trade secrets to Mercedes or Ferrari.

 

I presume there is no chapter about how the rbr seems to be able to run low ride height in qually despite no fuel load in the car.... 

 

 

I take it the pages you show are about coanda effect stuff and how they were trying to recapture exhaust blown diffuser effects despite the mandatory exhaust position rules. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 03 November 2017 - 17:11.

[PayasYouRace]

Looks like something I’d like to read.

[Loosenut]

If I were a team boss, I know what I would be buying all my engineers for christmas..

[Ramon69]

Haha, what's up with everyone in F1 releasing books this year? Should be a good product to read though, I must admit.

 

Newey... for sure one of the  best! I still believe that Mercedes wouldn't have dominated like that between 2014 and now if Red Bull had a better engine in their cars because those chassis were extremely good!

[maverick69]

Just got the kindle version for £7.99.

 

A good read with me mug 'o' cocoa. It must be said!

[kevinracefan]

I have the chilton repair manual.. I think it was RB10

 

interesting as hell...

[V8 Fireworks]

I have the chilton repair manual.. I think it was RB10

 

interesting as hell...

 

I have the chilton repair manual.. I think it was RB10

 

interesting as hell...

 

What's this? 

[loki]

They wouldn't let me buy it on Amazon UK.  On Amazon US it's only available from third party UK sellers, no Kindle or Audible.

 

Edit:  The hardcopy is available to US customers on theAmazon UK site, about US$30 with shipping, Kindle not available in US yet.

Edited by loki, 03 November 2017 - 18:55.

[BillBald]

This is the end of Red Bull, I'm afraid.

 

Now the other teams will know how to build a car.

[RacingGreen]

Looks like a good stocking filler - I'll mention it to my wife

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I imagine the title of the book should be "How to build a car which is not going to be faster than mine".

[ensign14]

I have the chilton repair manual.. I think it was RB10

 

interesting as hell...

 

Haynes, not Chilton.  After all, he's in Indycar now.

[loki]

This is the end of Red Bull, I'm afraid.

 

Now the other teams will know how to build a car.

Kodza probably bought a case of the books for his mates at the pub...

[shonguiz]

I thought it was about car design but reading the Amazon description it looks like that will be only a tiny fraction of the book, shame.

[Nathan]

Hopefully Amazon has mine in the post.

[paulb]

I have the chilton repair manual.. I think it was RB10

interesting as hell...

Hilarious! I don’t think folks really get it ....... yet.

ensign14 did, oooops.

Edited by paulb, 05 November 2017 - 16:28.

[Fatgadget]

One to top the lot would be how to play a Fender Strat and a Gibson flying vee  by Jimi Hendrix...

[Fatgadget]

Kodza probably bought a case of the books for his mates at the pub...

Who is Kodza?

[PeterScandlyn]

   need to order asap.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ds=adrian newey

 

Why 

 

Are you planning on building a car 

[Tsarwash]

Interesting.

[Marc Sproule]

i am ever so depressed.

 

no one contacted me to help provide photos for the book.

 

granted he's not actually building a car in the pics, but at least he still had hair.

 

https://www.flickr.c...157644609509307

Edited by Marc Sproule, 04 November 2017 - 06:28.

[blackmme]

I downloaded the sample for Kindle and will definitely be getting the hardback to take on my hol’s in a couple of weeks.
Just the short sample was a good read and raised a few chuckles and one outright laugh.

Regards Mike

[ANF]

I don't like the blurbs on the cover so I won't be reading it.

[prty]

   need to order asap.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ds=adrian newey

 

I'll order the audiobook
 

[paulb]

i am ever so depressed.

no one contacted me to help provide photos for the book.

granted he's not actually building a car in the pics, but at least he still had hair.

https://www.flickr.c...157644609509307

He looks perpetually befuddled. Always something grinding away between the ears. Thanks for sharing Marc.

[spacekid]

Thanks for the thread, I'll definitely be checking this out!!

[Dolph]

Just ordered the Newey, Button and Priestley books.

[Dolph]

Why 

 

Are you planning on building a car 

 

Don't mind him. He must be one of those F1 fans. We get a lot of that riff-raff around here. 

[TennisUK]

Picked it up this morning, half way through now, good read.

[V8 Fireworks]

Why 

 

Are you planning on building a car 

 

 

Don't mind him. He must be one of those F1 fans. We get a lot of that riff-raff around here. 

 

 

 The car that Newey builds is far beyond the scope of most F1 fans in their garden sheds.

 

Even a project like below, using the engine and transaxle from a family sedan and "ordinary" fabrication and composite techniques, I find very intimidating. 

 

 

I find Project Binky even more bewildering.   

 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 04 November 2017 - 20:01.

[kevinracefan]

Haynes, not Chilton.  After all, he's in Indycar now.

you're right, Haynes

 

https://www.amazon.c...l/dp/0857338013

[GazChed]

Wouldn't it be great if a talented individual were to take inspiration from this book and use it as a basis for a single seater . Mind you one of the biggest problems would be finding somewhere to race it . In the U.K. the only series that comes to mind is the Monoposto championship which I think still allows home built cars or Hillclimbing and Sprinting for which several small constructors manufacture cars .

[V8 Fireworks]

Wouldn't it be great if a talented individual were to take inspiration from this book and use it as a basis for a single seater . Mind you one of the biggest problems would be finding somewhere to race it . In the U.K. the only series that comes to mind is the Monoposto championship which I think still allows home built cars or Hillclimbing and Sprinting for which several small constructors manufacture cars .

 

The trouble is it will be wildly expensive, not just to build but to run.  Formula Libre in hillclimbing is a good place for such cars, the mileage completed is so little that running costs are of little issue. 

 

An old Formula Ford or Formula Vee is likely to be a more realistic proposition for amateur racing.  An established class with people to actually race against (always a problem for miscellaneous cars!), proven reliability, resale value (something you will not have with a homemade car!), and (relatively) reasonable running costs in the scheme of motorsport.

[GazChed]

I agree with you V8 , yes it would be very expensive but I feel it is a shame that few opportunities exist in circuit racing for anyone to even try . Incidentally I have just visited the Monoposto forum and seen that the 2017 championship winning Dallara F304 was recently offered for sale for the princely sum of £24,000 with an extensive spares package for an extra £6,000 . I don't suppose you could build a carbon fibre tub for that sort of money !

[MadYarpen]

Wonder if Ferrari and McL ordered one:)

[V8 Fireworks]

I don't suppose you could build a carbon fibre tub for that sort of money !

 

There was a souped-up Formula 3 chassis with a Judd Formula 1 V8 fitted in the back competing at the local hillclimb.   

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 November 2017 - 09:30.

[GazChed]

I believe the Gould GR37 ( and GR51 ?) was based on the Ralt RT37 F3 tub . If my memory serves me right they were powered by oversize F1 engines although I think bike engines are favoured in UK hillclimbing these days . For an example of what can be achieved these days go to 'Jos Goodyear GWR Raptor Doune 35.05 ' . As far as I am aware they haven't speeded the film up !

[Mat13]

The car that Newey builds is far beyond the scope of most F1 fans in their garden sheds.

Even a project like below, using the engine and transaxle from a family sedan and "ordinary" fabrication and composite techniques, I find very intimidating.

https://www.youtube....h?v=UPZtfL36SZU

I find Project Binky even more bewildering.

https://www.youtube....h?v=7hCPODjJO7s

LOVE Project Binky! As a mini (Hornet) owner, Project Binky is brilliant for inspiration. And dangerous, as my fabrication skills leave a lot to be desired....

[Lotusse7en]

A good read but don't look for design details !

One thing though , he mentioned Gilles Villeneuve's accident and wondered about how this could have affected the other drivers , seeing Gilles lying on the track . He then states that Graham Hill died in a related accident and how this could have affected Damon

 

Graham's accident was totally unrelated , being an aircratt accident , after running out of fuel IIRC . He and members of his team died , including Tony Brise 

[Tim C 27]

I recommend it. I got through 75% of it on Saturday and finished off the rest on Sunday evening so it was a “can’t put it down” type of book. It is written as if he’s sat in the pub with you, talking about the cars.

I did spot a few errors like stating Senna was in F1 in 83 and a few more that had he asked me to proof read, I could have sorted... 😉 It also has a paragraph that it almost repeated slightly further on that didn’t get picked up - I forget what the topic was, but these are minor issues. It’s an excellent book.

Edited by Tim C 27, 06 November 2017 - 18:18.

[femi]

He felt a need to sell books. Is he broke?

[Collombin]

A good read but don't look for design details !
One thing though , he mentioned Gilles Villeneuve's accident and wondered about how this could have affected the other drivers , seeing Gilles lying on the track . He then states that Graham Hill died in a related accident and how this could have affected Damon

Graham's accident was totally unrelated , being an aircratt accident , after running out of fuel IIRC . He and members of his team died , including Tony Brise

Damon's reaction to Graham's death might surprise you. And no, Graham did not run out of fuel, you're being too generous there.

[Lotusse7en]

Damon's reaction to Graham's death might surprise you. And no, Graham did not run out of fuel, you're being too generous there.

I never commented on Damon's reaction , Newey did 

Well , then ... ( according to the gospel of Wikipedia) 

Originally U.S.-registered, Hill's aircraft was "unregistered and stateless" at the time of the accident, displaying its previous cancelled US registration N6645Y. His U.S. pilot certification had expired, as had his FAA instrument rating. Hill's UK Private Pilot's Licence Instrument Meteorological Conditions rating, which would have permitted him to fly passengers in the visibility that prevailed at the time, was also out of date and invalid.^[17] The Independent stated he was effectively uninsured.^[18]

[maverick69]

One of the best books I have read in ages.

 

It's definitely not a car design handbook - but it clarifies or debunks some of the myths or opinions on technical aspects of F1 cars that are banded about.

 

If I were to take a couple of things from the book (in broad F1 terms) then it would be:

 

a) Always look to maximise ground effect

b) Always look to contain tyre squirt

[statman]

If I were a team boss, I know what I would be buying all my engineers for christmas..

 

Would be funny if Sauber turns up with a copy of the Williams FW14 car next season 

[guiporsche]

I for one found the book disappointing, a missed opportunity really of writing a classic in modern motorsports history.

The first half delivers. The description of his family background and early successes in Indy is enticing. And then very fortrightly he analyses year by year his successes and cock-ups from Indy years until leaving Williams in 1996. His reflections on Imola and Senna's accidenty are poignant, and the best part of the book. More importantly, he always explains the design philosophy of all his cars: his aims, how he did it, how he got the ideas, and what worked and what not.

 

Then in the second halve it all unravels. It is clear for everyone that followed that era that in Newey's career the Mclaren period was an inflexion point, as it showed the best and the worst of his designs. The 1998 MP4-13 is well covered but then '99 is barely touched, as he spends more time complaining about Ferrari's bargeboards and talking about his business activites on hotel refurbishments. 

There's no analysis of the 2000 car, and insucccesses on track are basically blamed on Ilmor's lack of power and reliability. His design philosophy, compared to tthe 98-00 cars started changing in 2001 but he does not make a single reference at all to the MP4-16. He does talk about his fallout with Ron and almost joining Jaguar and argues that from then on Ron took revenge by creating a design by committee process. The 2002 car is described in one sentence as not one of his best designs, and then he goes into the famous MP4-18, simply explaining that he tried to do radical improvement on the aero but without (as in previous cars) explaining the car's rationale, of its development, of his ideas.

 

It's disappointing because you learn from mistakes and in biographies what's interesting is to see individuals rising from trouble, not just a description of their successes. And the MP4-18 was by far his biggest cock-up -  he claims having joined Mclaren in part to dismiss ideas that he overprioritized aero and needed someone to 'edit' his work, but it is clear that it took him that 2002-03 period to really learn the lesson, something which he does not acknowledge.

There is a short description of the MP4-18's aero problems but it is a bit useless as he does not dwell on how he had gotten to design the car in first place. This is all very striking as there were plenty of analysis back then concerning the car's expensive development program, its rear packaging overheating issues, undriveability; and sheer dangerousness as disclosed by Wurz recently. 

He then blames Fry and Lowe for insisting into developing the car into the unsuccessful MP4-19A, instead of implemeting his ideas, which eventually made it into the victorious MP4-19B. Then he goes on to the MP4-20, but suffice it to say that he also does not explain why compared with 2002 the MP4-17B became competitive in 03.

So instead of a humane account of his successes and mistakes, what we get from the whole book is more an account of "I was (almost) always right, they (his colleagues, the FIA, Ferrari, Mosley) were always wrong and stiffled my creativity". It seems a biy self-absorbed, and there's little mention of other designers' works, within and outside his teams (beyond Prodromou). Incidentally he does not seem to be very fond of Ross Brawn...

There's also some questionable parts on his assumption that he always fairly interprets rules, but that's more subjective. Also, the book needed proper editing to sort out basic factual mistakes.

Edited by guiporsche, 11 November 2017 - 13:11.

[Collombin]

Does he touch upon the episode in 2001 where he signed a contract with Jaguar? Would be interested to hear his side of that, as it hardly showed him in a good light.

[guiporsche]

He does but very, very hastily.... Basically he says that by mid-00 Ron lost faith in him. Apparently Ron said he and Whitmarsh would be given Mclaren to run after his retirement, but asked for their inconditional loyalty (a very Ron-thingy as it seems) - Newey refused and that was the beginning of the end. When negotiating a new contract Ron offered him less than what he was earning and Rahal showed up. Newey agreed to join Jaguar by signing a letter of intent, but within hours Ron and his wife were at Newey's home convincing him to stay, basically offering him the world and the chance to do America's Cup. Newey agrees, saying that Ron's masterstroke was to mention the Rahal-Lauda power battle inside Jaguar. 

 

That's about it, he then says Rahal was not very happy but eventually they made amends. What Newey does not say is that there were rumours back then that one of the contract's key conditions was that Rahal would be the team's sole director..... Whether that was true or not, he does not discuss it.

Then he goes on discussing Ron's revenge by implementing (via Whitmarsh) the matrix system: but even how the latter functioned, and how decisions were made regarding car design is, of course, not described at all.

 

All in all I would definitely recommend the book to anynone interested in contemporary F1. It's just that it could be so much better and does not really satisfies one's curiosity. If only the standards of the first halve were maintained for the whole...

Edited by guiporsche, 11 November 2017 - 13:55.