31 replies to this topic

[lustigson]

It hadn't occurred to me earlier, but earlier today I stumbled upon the fact that Jim Clark actually led the 1968 WDC at the point of his death.

 

The other occasion that immediately came to mind, of course, was Jochen Rindt, who actually held his lead to become the 1970 champion posthumously.

 

I also though of Mike Hawthorn, who died in a road accident as reigning, albeit retired, 1958 World Drivers' Champion.

 

Are there any other instances of drivers being deceased but still leading, be it in Formula One or other championships?

[Tim Murray]

Paul Warwick in British F3000 in 1991 - he also became the champion posthumously.

[ensign14]

Von Trips?  I assume he was killed instantly in the 1961 crash, so Phil Hill hadn't scored the points to overtake him yet.

[Victor_RO]

Sean Edwards in Porsche Supercup in 2013. Sadly points tally overhauled at the last race weekend a couple of weeks after his death. (Not a death in a race meeting of that championship though)

[Steve99]

Von Trips? I assume he was killed instantly in the 1961 crash, so Phil Hill hadn't scored the points to overtake him yet.

I thought Von Trips was behind Hill on points going into the race? I stand to be corrected!

[Tim Murray]

No, he had 33 to Hill's 29.

[2F-001]

Von Trips was a few points ahead prior to Monza; Hill finished in all the rounds he took part in (with Ferrari skipping Watkins Glen), and scored in all of those bar one - so after dropped scores (only best five to count) he only won by one point.

Typing too slow - again! Too quick for me, Tim.

Edited by 2F-001, 06 November 2017 - 16:36.

[Collombin]

In the AAA national championship, Gaston Chevrolet, Jimmy Murphy, Ray Keech, Ted Horn. And Bob Carey as an equivalent to Hawthorn.

[Jim Thurman]

Two more posthumous champions: 

 

Danny Caruthers, 1971 USAC Midget Championship

 

Jimmy Caruthers,1975 USAC Dirt Car Championship. The season had finished, but he died of cancer before receiving the championship trophy.

 

And, yes, they were brothers.

[Vitesse2]

In the AAA national championship, Gaston Chevrolet, Jimmy Murphy, Ray Keech, Ted Horn. And Bob Carey as an equivalent to Hawthorn.

Plus, subject to Michael's eventual findings about 1946, George Robson. Reckoned on the six races which have 'normally' been assumed to have determined the title, Robson was leading Ted Horn by 20 points going into the final event at Goshen.

[chr1s]

Jarno Saarinen was leading both 250cc and 500cc World motorcycle championships when he was killed at Monza in 1973.

[ensign14]

As a side-issue, very few drivers have been killed while leading races; Paul Stewart of course mentioned above, also Senna, Vukovich, Ascari Sr and Richard Seaman.  Can't think of any others right now.

[D28]

Joe Weatherly would fit into category of a defending champion when he was killed.

He was NASCAR Grand National Champion in 1962 and 63. He died at Riverside in 1964 in the season's 5th race. The season actually began in Nov and I believe Joe was leading in points going into Riverside. 

Edited by D28, 07 November 2017 - 01:51.

[Collombin]

As a side-issue, very few drivers have been killed while leading races; Paul Stewart of course mentioned above, also Senna, Vukovich, Ascari Sr and Richard Seaman. Can't think of any others right now.

Pedro Rodriguez and Rich Vogler are a couple of others.

[ensign14]

And Jimmy Bryan.

[Tim Murray]

... plus Campari at Monza 1933, Sommer at Cadours 1950 and Scott Brown at Spa 1958. According to Duncan Hamilton in Touch Wood both Louis Rosier and Benoît Musy were leading at the times of their respective accidents in the 1956 race at Montlhéry where they both died.

[lustigson]

Interesting additions, everyone, including the rather detailed ones of drivers actually suffering fatal accidents while in the lead of the race. That adds another dimension to it, indeed.

[Steve99]

I stand corrected! Thanks

[Mallory Dan]

As a side-issue, very few drivers have been killed while leading races; Paul Stewart of course mentioned above, also Senna, Vukovich, Ascari Sr and Richard Seaman.  Can't think of any others right now.

Think you mean Paul Warwick, Ens.

[ensign14]

Yes, of course.  Leading the race and the championship...

[MLC]

Pedro Rodriguez and Rich Vogler are a couple of others.

 

I was going to mention Vogler. If I recall correctly, since the race was red flagged due to his crash, the results were taken from the previous lap which meant Rich won the race in which he was killed.

[Michael Ferner]

Keech was also leading the race he died in. And Bert Karnatz was leading the championship when he died racing, and in fact he was never passed. They just deleted him from the records!

[ensign14]

I was going to mention Vogler. If I recall correctly, since the race was red flagged due to his crash, the results were taken from the previous lap which meant Rich won the race in which he was killed.

 

That happened to Warwick too.
 

[Henri Greuter]

Interesting additions, everyone, including the rather detailed ones of drivers actually suffering fatal accidents while in the lead of the race. That adds another dimension to it, indeed.

 

 

There is even a case about a fellow countryman of you Lustigson!

 

Rob Slotemaker was leading the Dutch national championship for touring cars at the time he was killed, though closely. There was talk about `fixing` the result of the final race to such an extend that Rob would remain in the lead and thus earn a final title. But a few drivers didn't agree to that suggestion. insisting that it was not in the spirit as Slotemaker would have had it. The only thing that happened to pay a tribute to Rob was that the Pole was left empty and the race was on.

I don't have all the other details in my mind anymore but if recall correct, female driver Henny Hemmes was one of the drivers involved who wanted to see Slotemaker to become postumous champion. I've did a brief search on the internet who did become champion but that failed. Somehow the name Jacques Cleutjens who drove a Ford Capri comes up with me when I think about this matter. But I stand ready to be corrected.....

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 08 November 2017 - 19:21.

[nexfast]

It was indeed Jacques Cleutjens as recorded in Frank de Jong's site:

 

http://touringcarrac... NTK Class.html

[Henri Greuter]

It was indeed Jacques Cleutjens as recorded in Frank de Jong's site:

 

http://touringcarrac... NTK Class.html

 

Aiiiiii  !!!!!!

 

I should have known to look for that site of Frank.

 

Apologies to Frank!!!!!

 

 

Henri

[DCapps]

Joe Weatherly would fit into category of a defending champion when he was killed.

He was NASCAR Grand National Champion in 1962 and 63. He died at Riverside in 1964 in the season's 5th race. The season actually began in Nov and I believe Joe was leading in points going into Riverside. 

 

This is correct: Weatherly was leading with 3,032 points to 2,900 of Ned Jarrett, and 2,732 of Billy Wade.

[lustigson]

I hadn't thought about Slotemaker, Henri. Thanks!

[Henri Greuter]

I hadn't thought about Slotemaker, Henri. Thanks!

 

 

My Pleasure, I only feel so ashamed that I never thought about consulting our friend Frank's splendid site on touring cars to verify the data.

Feels to me like an insult to Frank.

 

 

BTW, I also found another driver to mention, if he eventually qualifies after all.

 

Reading Gary Doyle's biography on De Palma, he listed that Gaston Chevrolet was listed the deceased 1920 AAA champion despite the fact he was killed in the final race of the season.

Doyle also wrote  that In later years however some events were added to the championship and that's how Chevrolet lost his title.

 

I can't work out the details but maybe Michael Ferner or Don Capps can/want to add more on this situation?

 

Henri

[Collombin]

I mentioned Chevrolet - his Indy points alone turned out to be enough in the end.

Milton had a very good season if you look at the non-championship events but it was only ever a 5 race championship season and Gaston was undoubtedly the champ. All the later revisionism is poisonous bull, however misguidedly well intentioned it might have been.

"Never has more damage been done than by people who thought they were doing the right thing" - Lucy van Pelt, psychiatrist (5 cents please)

[Henri Greuter]

I mentioned Chevrolet - his Indy points alone turned out to be enough in the end.

Milton had a very good season if you look at the non-championship events but it was only ever a 5 race championship season and Gaston was undoubtedly the champ. All the later revisionism is poisonous bull, however misguidedly well intentioned it might have been.

"Never has more damage been done than by people who thought they were doing the right thing" - Lucy van Pelt, psychiatrist (5 cents please)

 

 

I am sorry E.B. I had missed your post, my apologies to you.

Second time within this thread I feel embarassed....

Thanks for stepping forward and adding and the wise lesson in the last line.

 

 

Henri

[DCapps]

My Pleasure, I only feel so ashamed that I never thought about consulting our friend Frank's splendid site on touring cars to verify the data.

Feels to me like an insult to Frank.

 

 

BTW, I also found another driver to mention, if he eventually qualifies after all.

 

Reading Gary Doyle's biography on De Palma, he listed that Gaston Chevrolet was listed the deceased 1920 AAA champion despite the fact he was killed in the final race of the season.

Doyle also wrote  that In later years however some events were added to the championship and that's how Chevrolet lost his title.

 

I can't work out the details but maybe Michael Ferner or Don Capps can/want to add more on this situation?

 

Henri

 

 

I mentioned Chevrolet - his Indy points alone turned out to be enough in the end.

Milton had a very good season if you look at the non-championship events but it was only ever a 5 race championship season and Gaston was undoubtedly the champ. All the later revisionism is poisonous bull, however misguidedly well intentioned it might have been.

"Never has more damage been done than by people who thought they were doing the right thing" - Lucy van Pelt, psychiatrist (5 cents please)

 

This whole business of falsehoods that Arthur Means and then Russ Catlin (with Bob Russo) concocted and spread regarding Gaston Chevrolet has been discussed here and elsewhere. Whatever the reasons that caused Means to do what he did defy logic, but at least Catlin had the excuses of stupidity and gullibility.