51 replies to this topic

[Tsarwash]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...tralia-41964046

 

An eight-year-old girl has died after crashing her junior drag racing car on a track in Western Australia.

Anita Board was on a solo "test run" when her vehicle hit a concrete barrier at the Perth Motorplex, police said.

Paramedics treated her at the scene on Saturday before taking her to hospital, where she died a day later.

The girl had been attempting to gain her licence for junior dragster racing, the Australia National Drag Racing Association (Andra) said.

She had just turned eight - the minimum age required to race under official rules - and was driving a 210cc dragster, local media reported.

 

 

Mike Sprlyan, of Junior Dragster Australia, told news outlet Perth Now that beginners aged between eight and 17 reached top speeds of about 40-50km/h (25-30mph).

 

Sad for all involved. I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. 

 

[Retrofly]

Must have been a freak accident for that to happen at those speeds.

 

I mean you can get that fast going downhill on a pushbike, such a shame.

[McLaren]

So sad to hear about this.

[A3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...tralia-41964046

 

 

 

Sad for all involved. I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. 

 

Kids have died in karting too. As well as in others sports. Don't know if this is a topic for this forum.

[SophieB]

Kids have died in karting too. As well as in others sports. Don't know if this is a topic for this forum.

 
I'm happy to let it run, considering how a lot of F1 drivers got their start racing as little kids. In fact, Graham and then Damon Hill are the last F1 drivers I can think of that succeeded without racing in karts as kids (although I'm sure I'll be knocked down in the stampeded if there's more). I also remember Lewis Hamilton saying how when he was a little kid, he attended the funeral of a boy killed while karting:
 

Hamilton is all too aware of the tragedies that can occur as hero Senna was killed when he was just nine, as was a karting rival of his own age back in 1994 in Daniel Spence.
Spence succumbed to head and neck injuries sustained after a kart landed on top of him, an incident brought vividly to mind again in light of Bianchi's crash.
Speaking in his BBC column on this matter, Hamilton said: "That was a very traumatic time for me as a kid.
"Even now I can remember standing on the bank beside a track with him with our suits on just before a race, all laughing and joking, and then the next thing I knew I was at his funeral. It was the first time I had ever been to one.

It is difficult. As adults, drivers make informed decisions to compete, knowing the risks but do the kids? Then again, I believe that constantly framing children's (and adults) lives in terms of risk avoidance isn't ideal either. 

 

I think little kids should be allowed to do motorsport while I worry ineffectually about it, I guess. How young is too young to start?

[Rinehart]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...tralia-41964046

 

 

 

Sad for all involved. I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. 

Do you think children should also be banned from riding bikes, toboggans and swings which have also proven fatal from time to time? 

 

RIP.  

[robefc]

RIP, awful for her and her family.

 

RE: the broader discussion, it's a tricky one. To add to Rinehart's examples - horse riding?

[A3]

 
I'm happy to let it run, considering how a lot of F1 drivers got their start racing as little kids. In fact, Graham and then Damon Hill are the last F1 drivers I can think of that succeeded without racing in karts as kids (although I'm sure I'll be knocked down in the stampeded if there's more). I also remember Lewis Hamilton saying how when he was a little kid, he attended the funeral of a boy killed while karting:
 

It is difficult. As adults, drivers make informed decisions to compete, knowing the risks but do the kids? Then again, I believe that constantly framing children's (and adults) lives in terms of risk avoidance isn't ideal either. 

 

I think little kids should be allowed to do motorsport while I worry ineffectually about it, I guess. How young is too young to start?

 

Well, I believe it should not be in racing comments. Move it to the paddock club it you want, but a kid dying in a drag race is no different than a kid dying in baseball.

Baseball also has the highest fatality rate among sports for children ages 5 to 14, with three to four children dying from baseball injuries each year.

 

(USA) https://www.hopkinsm...stics_90,P02787

[robefc]

Well, I believe it should not be in racing comments. Move it to the paddock club it you want, but a kid dying in a drag race is no different than a kid dying in baseball.

 

 

 

(USA) https://www.hopkinsm...stics_90,P02787

 

If by no different you mean equally likely I think you'd need to look at the number of participants in each sport.

[A3]

If by no different you mean equally likely I think you'd need to look at the number of participants in each sport.

 

No I didn't mean that.

 

But you've got a point, kids in motorsports maybe safer for them than ofther sports. Or not. 

 

The question of the OP was " I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. "

 

Replace motorsports with sports and we could be argueing till the end of days.

[V8 Fireworks]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...tralia-41964046

 

 

 

Sad for all involved. I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. 

 

Those junior dragsters are very slow.  It's unfortunate and very sad.

 

Whether it's dragsters or go-karts, it's hard to know how much the wishes and risk profile of the child are being consider compared to those of the parent at that age.

[SophieB]

Well, I believe it should not be in racing comments. Move it to the paddock club it you want, but a kid dying in a drag race is no different than a kid dying in baseball.

 

 

 

(USA) https://www.hopkinsm...stics_90,P02787

 

A3, this wasn't an invite to discuss the moderation further. Please report threads if you feel they are inappropriate, as per the board rules.

Edited by SophieB, 13 November 2017 - 10:37.

[A3]

ok, apologies.

[wingwalker]

According to this site description, Racing Comments section is for "The place for debates on the current affairs of Formula 1, rallying, MotoGP, NASCAR, V8, Indycar, and all other forms of motorsport". So I don't see why this shouldn't be discussed here, even if the subject matter is obviously extremely unpleasant and morbid.

[robefc]

No I didn't mean that.

 

But you've got a point, kids in motorsports maybe safer for them than ofther sports. Or not. 

 

The question of the OP was " I would question whether children of that age should be competing in motorsports where fatalities are a possibility. "

 

Replace motorsports with sports and we could be argueing till the end of days.

 

Ah, see what you mean.

[krapmeister]

Incredibly tragic news.

 

I am almost certain she wouldn't have been doing more than 50kph due to her age/experience, which is no faster than the speed she would've been doing had she driven a hire kart (and which she had done just a day or 2 before). And tbh she would've been far more protected in the junior dragster with a full roll cage, harness, etc than the kart. It has been an incredibly safe form of junior motorsport up to now but unfortunately despite all the safety measures something has happened that has cost her her life.

 

She came from a drag racing family, indeed her older sister has been racing a junior drag racer for a couple of years already iirc. I can't imagine what the parents are going through.

 

I am sure there will be some recommendations that come out of any investigation but I hope they don't change the age participation level, all sport has an element of risk no matter what the age...

Edited by krapmeister, 13 November 2017 - 11:03.

[SophieB]

Motorsport.com‏Verified account @Motorsport 12m12 minutes ago

More

Junior drag racing suspended at Perth Motorplex after fatal crash: http://www.motorsport.com/all/article/?id=978206 …

[krapmeister]

 

Motorsport.com‏Verified account @Motorsport 12m12 minutes ago

More

Junior drag racing suspended at Perth Motorplex after fatal crash: http://www.motorsport.com/all/article/?id=978206 …

 

 

Unfortunately I really feel that is a bit of a reaction to the media impact the story has had, especially as it is a government-owned venue...

[chunder27]

It will get mileage as it is a young girl, and she was very very young.

 

For me double figures ought to be the legal age they can start for all sorts of reasons.

 

I am aware that some kids are dropped onto bikes when they are perhaps 4 or 5, and that is obviously fine in private.

 

But to compete? At single figures I don't know.  The time you spend as a kid being free and just simply being a kid is short enough as it it.

 

But the family were massively keen drag racers and she was no doubt desperate to get involved. Just very sad.

[Tsarwash]

Do you think children should also be banned from riding bikes, toboggans and swings which have also proven fatal from time to time? 

 

RIP.  

 

Kids have died in karting too. As well as in others sports. Don't know if this is a topic for this forum.

I didn't really word that well, but it is well known here that motorsports are more dangerous per numbers of participants than many if not most other sports. 

[Kev00]

I know people say Karting is just as dangerous, or that any sport is not immune to freak accidents, but I was pretty shocked to hear of an 8 year old in a drag racing accident. I would never think of kids under the age of 14 or so drag racing.

[robefc]

I know people say Karting is just as dangerous, or that any sport is not immune to freak accidents, but I was pretty shocked to hear of an 8 year old in a drag racing accident. I would never think of kids under the age of 14 or so drag racing.

 

I think the term 'drag racing' is maybe a little misleading in terms of the speeds the drivers of that age do etc. I don't mean you are using it wrongly, I just mean if you read an 8 year old died 'drag racing' you think WTF?!?! And then you read about the speeds they actually get up to etc and it's a bit of a different thing (imo anyway).

[chunder27]

I went  Santa Pod earlier this year for a British championship event and there were a large number of junior dragsters there. Probably 30 or so.

 

There are grades in term of performance for each age group, in that the older guys race quite a quick little car and the young kids race something far, far slower, but use the same engine

 

Over here they only race eighth mile too.  But it was great, some of them are really well presented and turned out and tog et the chance to do what must be perhaps one of the safest motorsports at a young age is great.

 

For me though under 10's is too young, not sure what the restriction is here sorry.

[loki]

I know people say Karting is just as dangerous, or that any sport is not immune to freak accidents, but I was pretty shocked to hear of an 8 year old in a drag racing accident. I would never think of kids under the age of 14 or so drag racing.

Jr drags are the kid kart equivalent for that form.  They are no faster than a kart or jr MX bike.  Top Fuel racer Shawn Langdon's 5 year old nephew just started jr drags.  Those that have kids know that when they start getting to grade school age if the family is into something, the kids will start badgering to be a bigger part of it.  Some of the time the kid is pushed into it but a great deal of the time, perhaps most, the kids want to be a part of it.

[pdac]

When someone dies, it's not them that suffers after their death, it's the ones left behind. In this case, it will be the parents who suffer so they are the ones who have to decide whether, in hindsight, it was right for them to let their kid participate.

 

However, developed countries now also believe that it is the states responsibility to ensure that parents do not mistreat their kids. The state may now feel that it is inappropriate for young kids to participate in motorsports. This will likely come down to public opinion.

[RacingGreen]

Incredibly sad news, and as a parent ( and grandparent ) I feel for her family and all those who knew and loved her. Eight is just too young. 

[GreenMachine]

Yes, very sad.

 

Perhaps a little unexpectedly, the WA State Government has not acted impulsively to ban ... something.  They have said (last I saw) they will await a coroner's report on the incident, and the outcome of the sanctioning body's investigations.  Common sense in a politician, who'd have thought it?!

[sblick]

If I read the story correctly they only shut down the track to do a proper investigation. 

Very sad.  I hope a freak accident and not from poor prep or belts not being tight.  That would kill me as a parent to know

[pRy]

Lewis started karting at age 8 at Rye House which advertises 8-16 karts with a top speed of 40mph.

 

It sounds like a tragic freak accident. In the same way a child could come off a bike and land badly against a wall. I feel for her family. What a terrible loss.

[krapmeister]

The track hasn't been shut down but they have suspended all junior dragster racing in the state (WA) until the investigation/s into the accident have taken place and they know what happened.

[GreenMachine]

The track hasn't been shut down but they have suspended all junior dragster racing in the state (WA) until the investigation/s into the accident have taken place and they know what happened.

"they" being ANDRA, or the WA Gov't, or ... ?

[krapmeister]

WA government - the track is owned by the state.

FWIW ANDRA hasn't seen the need to suspend junior dragsters anywhere else in Australia.

Not actually 100% sure if the suspension is officially state-wide or just at the track (Perth Motorplex) as I have read conflicting reports, but as it is the only permanent facility in WA it pretty much amounts to a state-wide suspension...

Edited by krapmeister, 14 November 2017 - 03:07.

[Slowersofterdumber]

If by no different you mean equally likely I think you'd need to look at the number of participants in each sport.

I don't think it's about numbers. Think of it this way: being inside a car at 50 km/h is WAY safer than riding a bicycle at the same speed. This dead was a freak accident, and yet there's a debate over it while everybody accepts kids the same age riding bicycles.

I would understand if this was about motorcycling at early ages, THAT looks potentially far more dangerous and the kind of thing where this accident is actually a danger on normal, not freak accidents. But having read about the cars and conditions that these kids have to deal with, I don't think they're putting themselves in any kind of danger they don't deal with in the real World. Being a car passenger on daily life surrounded by the kind of **** driving you see out there everyday is far more dangerous. Today on the way to work I got passed on a blind corner with a solid line while driving like 5km/h under the speed limit. If anyone came head on that would have been a fatal accident. These kind of imbeciles pose a far bigger threat to life than driving these drag cars and yet we accept it. All the energy used to protect these junior racers would be better used recording and jailing bad drivers.

[krapmeister]

Great editorial piece on the Anita Board accident that is worth a read: http://dragnews.com....ring-anita.html

[SophieB]

Great editorial piece on the Anita Board accident that is worth a read: http://dragnews.com....ring-anita.html

 

That is indeed a thoughtful article. I broadly agree  that sadly sometimes horrible things just happen. By all means the investigations have to be carried out to make sure there's not an underlying systemic issue but life can't be made entirely safe.

Her poor family, though.

[Tsarwash]

. All the energy used to protect these junior racers would be better used recording and jailing bad drivers.

That sentence makes little sense to me. Are you saying that people shouldn't be devoting energy to ensuring that junior motorsports are safer ? Because I think that there is already considerable effort put into preventing dangerous driving, at least in the UK. 

 

I think it's important for kids to go out and play and hurt themselves, but I'm questioning if competitive motorsports is appropriate for children under the age of ten. Horse riding is the only other common sports activity which is as dangerous as motorsports and I'm sure we wouldn't want to see children competing at horse racing. 

[Slowersofterdumber]

That sentence makes little sense to me. Are you saying that people shouldn't be devoting energy to ensuring that junior motorsports are safer ? Because I think that there is already considerable effort put into preventing dangerous driving, at least in the UK.


I think it's important for kids to go out and play and hurt themselves, but I'm questioning if competitive motorsports is appropriate for children under the age of ten. Horse riding is the only other common sports activity which is as dangerous as motorsports and I'm sure we wouldn't want to see children competing at horse racing.

No. I'm saying that a risk that causes thousands of deaths every year in every country in the World (drunk or stupid drivers on open roads) justify far more efforts than a risk that may cause one death every 10 years (freak accident on a very safe racing class).

Of course safety advances are welcome in every area, but we have to tackle the big problems first and harder.

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

From that article:

 

"What we do know currently about Anita's accident is that it was a freak occurrence, that occurred not during the run itself but around the exit turnoff from the track."

[robefc]

I don't think it's about numbers. Think of it this way: being inside a car at 50 km/h is WAY safer than riding a bicycle at the same speed. This dead was a freak accident, and yet there's a debate over it while everybody accepts kids the same age riding bicycles.

I would understand if this was about motorcycling at early ages, THAT looks potentially far more dangerous and the kind of thing where this accident is actually a danger on normal, not freak accidents. But having read about the cars and conditions that these kids have to deal with, I don't think they're putting themselves in any kind of danger they don't deal with in the real World. Being a car passenger on daily life surrounded by the kind of **** driving you see out there everyday is far more dangerous. Today on the way to work I got passed on a blind corner with a solid line while driving like 5km/h under the speed limit. If anyone came head on that would have been a fatal accident. These kind of imbeciles pose a far bigger threat to life than driving these drag cars and yet we accept it. All the energy used to protect these junior racers would be better used recording and jailing bad drivers.

 

I agree with everything you have said except for I don't understand why you have quoted my post or said. The point about numbers was merely that if you were going to compare number of fatalities or serious injuries you would need to do it in percentage terms - i.e. take account of the number of participants as well.

 

Your point about driving also relates to something in the article Sophie linked. It's a great article but I am not sure allowing children to take risks ends up with adults who can make sound decisions because I think we (as in humans) are absolutely useless at assessing risk. Hence why people drive like the person you mentioned or we need laws to make us wear seat belts.

 

That's not a point in support of not allowing children to take risks btw, just a general comment.

Edited by robefc, 15 November 2017 - 19:58.

[MattPete]

I know people say Karting is just as dangerous, or that any sport is not immune to freak accidents, but I was pretty shocked to hear of an 8 year old in a drag racing accident. I would never think of kids under the age of 14 or so drag racing.

 

 

Yes, I know that bicycles can go pretty fast, but we have a rule in our house: all vehicles are human powered.  I've seen too many kids lose control, freak-out, and hit a tree head-on in those battery-powered jeep things (http://tinyurl.com/yce44jqo) and break an arm.  Also, I don't want my kids to get fat.

 

It's weird, because I'd rather have my 8-year-old build a half-pipe in the backyard and do crazy BMX tricks than ride one of those battery-powered cars. Perhaps it's the implicit knowledge that riding a bike, and being skilled enough to ride a half-pipe, involves a lot of experience and skill.

 

The problem with powered vehicles is that anyone can just jump in. This isn't a commentary about this specific death (I know nothing of the details), but an overall philosophy based on empircal observation.

[RandomG]

From that article:

 

"What we do know currently about Anita's accident is that it was a freak occurrence, that occurred not during the run itself but around the exit turnoff from the track."

This is very reminiscent of Maria de Villota

[GazChed]

According to the Pony Racing Authority website , Jockeys must be aged between 9 and 15 years of age .

[teejay]

I'm from Perth, where this has been massive news. 

 

Life is dangerous, every single days. A tragic accident, but as per all motorsport, look, learn, and the show should go on.

 

IMHO.

[chunder27]

I remember the same conversations happening when a kid was killed racing Ministock cars over here in the UK a few years ago.

 

There were several reasons why that happened and I am not going to go into detail on here.

 

But suffice to say this drag racing was probably even more of an accident than that was.  This happened at the end of a run, and was probably a result of youth being over excited and not concentrating perhaps as much as an older child might or an adult would. We all do it don't we?

 

Either way she was very young.

 

All I can say is that for me 8 is too young, you have no idea of responsibility at 8 years old, or how you can hurt yourself. You have only just learned to form sentences properly and learned how to count and talk to other people in a way and start to form your own personality.

 

I am sure she knew what she was doing, and the family clearly were very involved in the sport too.  But for me 8 is just a bit too young to be doing anything like this.

 

Saying that kids have been riding little motocross bikes at far younger than this for years, and I bet plenty have seriously hurt themselves or even died, as you can do that in a back yard!

 

What can you do really?

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Rest in peace.

 

IMO, These kind of accidents are foods for thoughts, so I hope the solutions are going to be in place to avoid similar cases.

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

https://youtu.be/Xtwt7o82dNM?t=2m20s

 

Here's a an onboard video from 2013 at this track. The dragsters in this video go really slow when they are approaching the exit.

[Roadhouse]

Imho, mostly a discussion about visible and invisible dangers. 'Drag' racing is far from the biggest danger the average 8 year old faces. We used to climb tree's, jump with our bikes (build a ramp so we could jump over each other), built wooden huts rising up to 4m high.

We always wore full crash helmets though and paramedics were always nearby to help, because safety first!

[chunder27]

Again the accident part is vital. There is no way you can protect a child completely, nor should you. it is vital that children learn about danger and risk, that way they can pass it on and be more aware. The activity this child was doing was no more dangerous than riding a bike or driving a go kart. There was merely a mistake made in a situation that was not easy to escape from. She was on her own and being independent, and not much could have been done to fix this, so I hope there is no crass over reaction.

 

My worry about modern society is the nanny state blindly preventing anyone from doing anything, not because it's dangerous, but because of compensation and sueing culture.

 

If it were not for this, a hell of a lot of things we watch would be a lot better than they currently are.

[superden]

I wonder what he'd say about litigiousness.

[ANF]

Darwin, really?