367 replies to this topic

[Gold]

Everyone will have different opinions, but this is a question that asks what date (if any) F1 died, or changed considerably from what it was before, to you.

 

Not that you necessarily stopped following it, but that it wasn't the same as before. If you want, add a few sentences on what you feel changed for the worse.

I'm wondering what dates people will come up with.

[scuderiaknob]

It didnt die, but changed a lot for me after the Japanese GP 2006 where Schumis engine blew, for me that was the end of an era, i topped following for a while after before resurrecting around 2009 or so.

[Michael Ferner]

It died in pieces, bit by bit. I finally switched off in late 2001, but wasn't really paying as much attention as before for several years already. Small rear tyres and the ban on traction control in 1993, refuelling stops in 1994, grooved tyres in 1998 were pretty low watermarks. Looking back, I think the refuelling stops in 1994 were what turned me off worst, at least in the long term. It effectively killed off all ontrack competition.

[Risil]

Good thing we're back to big rear tyres, no traction control, no refuelling and slick tyres now then! Or perhaps not.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Things changed for me while watching the 1958 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. Rule changes meant that the race was reduced to from 101 laps to 75, Maserati had pulled out and Fangio was absent, nearing retirement. Many of the drivers that I watched in  past years were no longer with us and now replaced by drivers and cars that I associated more with Brands Hatch. It was a fine sunny day and the fact that Peter Collins won made it a happy one for me but clearly thing were changing and by 1960 my interest had waned considerably and I tended to watch on TV rather than from the trackside. I continue to watch what is now 'F1' though more often than not I wonder why I bother with it.

[HistoryFan]

I think it was around 1982 when Ecclestone ensure that there are no guest drivers allowed and all should be more professional. That was the end of enthusiast drivers.
Of course there were some good years afterwards, but that was the start of a process that ended in a hitech formula which could just attract investors, manufactures and so on entries. But now racing-heart-teams we had in the past as Tyrrell, Arrows, Lotus, Brabham and so on.

[Vitesse2]

November 29th 1975.

 

At least for quite a while.

[kayemod]

It's been dying bit by bit for a great many years, almost every loss caused by misguided human intervention. Without much hindsight, so much of the decline was entirely predictable, and the current situation with too wide, too powerful cars with far too much aero grip, that struggle to pass each other without cheats like DRS should never have been allowed to happen. These days I rarely watch live,  and almost always with a recording delay so I can fast forward all the boring pre-race waffle and driver "interviews", or only watch next day if what happened on track sounds fairly interesting, and dare I say it, "exciting". Sometimes though, the race is so dull and processional, that I've dropped off for a while, aided by a glass or two of Malbec, and not bothered to rewind whatever I've missed. Everything could be fixed, but I rather doubt if the "fans" that remain would want that, very few seem to even know the names of the pre-Schumacher greats, I suspect that Jackie Stewart for example is just a boring, overexcited old man to most of them. Apologies for the doom & gloom, but I can't see much improving before the sport dies altogether. At least in our dotage, we'll still have TNF, I hope so anyway.

[AJCee]

Its 'death' is a relative thing. As evidenced elsewhere on these forums there are many who find it alive and kicking.
As others have said, it's changed bit by bit. Some might point to Brands Hatch 1976, some Silverstone eleven years later as markers of certain changes. Some will have seen a change earlier than that. Change is natural and inevitable but depending on where you stand not necessarily for good.
The dull predictability and air of stage management on the early 2000s certainly did no favours to the sport and the ever tightening restrictions on the scope for diversity of design was occurring at the same time (but had been in evidence a while before).
It's not dead, just different and less appealing.

Edited by AJCee, 18 November 2017 - 17:54.

[john aston]

It didn't. It is a truth universally acknowledged (if I my coin a phrase) that most people believe that  the decade starting with the time they first fell in love with Grand Prix racing (as contested by Formula One cars, not 'F1 ' for old farts like me  ) was the best ever. See also rock music , film , TV  etc . The sport changes but many of its watchers don't . So , in my case . early Seventies to mid Eighties was obviously the best.

 

But look at a Motor Sport  from the early Seventies and plenty of miserable old sods (actually the same age as I now am ) were then moaning about cars looking like fag packets, long haired drivers , ridiculous wings and JYS' wimpish safety campaigning .

 

Pus ca change . plus ca la meme  chose, as we rarely say in Thirsk.  

[Gold]

Thanks for your comments. I'll add my own, looking back over the history of F1 the cars kept (on the whole) getting faster and faster, wider, lower, bigger wings, etc. For me it died in the years 1993-1994.

May 1st 1994 if I had to pick a date.

The combined accidents of Senna, Ratzenberger, Wendlinger and others drafted a slew of changes to "castrate" the cars some of which permeate to this day.

 

-The introduction of the stepped floor and the wooden plank in July 1994 (a wooden plank!) to reduce downforce (still to this day).

-The (in my opinion ugly) high noses as a result of the stepped bottom in 1995.
-The narrower tires 1993-2016

-The narrowing of the chassis from 2.2m to 1.8m in 1998 made the cars look as wide as cars from the 1960's and 70's again (we are back up to 2.0m in 2017, not as wide as before unfortunately, we are currently as wide as 1993-1997)

-The holes in the airbox to reduce induction pressure in 1994

-The grooved tires of all things!!! (1998-2008). It made an F1 car look like a supermodel wearing flip - flops! They are one of the main reasons I simply couldn't be in awe of a car from 1998-2008.
-The steady decline in engine displacement since 1995.
-The loss of the V12 in 1996.

 

I believe the above changes (apart from the loss of the V12) all started due to Senna, Ratzenberger and Wendlingers accidents post 1st May 1994 and really castrated the cars profoundly.

 

As a parallel to that with the death of Ayrton, not having a single champion on the grid in 1994, in my view really no competition for SCH until about 10 years later with Alonso in 2005.

 

So for me 1994-1995 was the year.

If one views 3D models of all F1 cars over the years, you'll notice they get lower, wider and meaner looking until 1994, then it's downhill.

Thank God 2017 has shown a remarkable turnaround. I really hope liberty picks us off where fate left us post 1994-1995. We could lighten the cars a bit for starters.
 

Edited by Gold, 18 November 2017 - 18:17.

[Nick Planas]

It didn't. It is a truth universally acknowledged (if I my coin a phrase) that most people believe that  the decade starting with the time they first fell in love with Grand Prix racing (as contested by Formula One cars, not 'F1 ' for old farts like me  ) was the best ever. See also rock music , film , TV  etc . The sport changes but many of its watchers don't . So , in my case . early Seventies to mid Eighties was obviously the best.

 

But look at a Motor Sport  from the early Seventies and plenty of miserable old sods (actually the same age as I now am ) were then moaning about cars looking like fag packets, long haired drivers , ridiculous wings and JYS' wimpish safety campaigning .

 

Pus ca change . plus ca la meme  chose, as we rarely say in Thirsk.  

Absolutely. I bet if we could revive anyone watching "Grands Prix" from the 1900s, or '20s, or 30s, they would all say the same thing. It's rather like the time on Joe Saward's blog when someone said "modern cars don't look like F1 cars any more" and I think I referred them to that poster which showed every winner from 1950 onwards. Compare most F1 cars from more than 3 or 4 years apart and they are different. It's Formula One (sorry, F1) if it's called F1 by the powers that be in their regulations.

 

As for the drivers, I recall being hyper critical when I saw the footage of Alexander Rossi crunching the gears of an historic Lotus 49 he was demonstrating at COTA, because he clearly couldn't heel & toe. But in fairness to Rossi (who is after all an Indy winner) they haven't been heeling and toeing in F1 for nearly 30 years! I'm certain that if we could put the great Senna at the height of his powers in a modern F1 car without any coaching whatsoever, he'd have difficulty working out all the buttons and therefore getting the best out of the car. And none of the top guys from the '60s (MY heroes' era) would be as adept with the ignition advance/****** on the steering wheel as well as the heroes of the 1900s... F1 is alive, and kicking, and spinning its wheels, and providing some great racing.

 

Having said all that, I prefer to watch it rather than stand in a crowd getting very little view, and not knowing what is going on! At least in the 1960s no-one else knew what was going on either, so we were all equally ignorant (I'm thinking Brands Hatch, commentators round the back of the track...) 

[Doug Nye]

Add me in to that, John and Nick - it hasn't died, it's not even seriously ill, though it is certainly suffering from quite a nasty virus - contracted by accident, and - as usual - via the law of unintended consequences.  Born in an age of sporting idealism - forged through competing quests for national prestige - reborn through a period of engineering change - transformed in commercial form - almost strangled by too-tightly focused engineers and marketeers - it has for decades become a battleground between a general public obsessed by rather pathetic 'fandom', and dyed-in-the-wool specialist enthusiasts totally absorbed with car versus car - two factions entirely powerless to create any change whatsoever...

 

One either accepts the endeavour today as a branch of show business, or just as a relatively diverting adjunct to corporate promotion, based upon a majestic and honourable past...

 

For me, a mere 20 cars on the starting grid - fewer than half of them threatening to be at all competitive - is the biggest current problem.  

 

I'm a supporter of the small team/private entrant/cannon fodder/mobile chicanes faction - 30 or more on the grid for a proper Show.  As Tim Parnell used to say "Mek the boogahs up front work for their money" - and to his mid-field drivers "Just don't lose time when they come up to lap you - if they're any good at all, don't you worry.... they'll find a way by...".

 

And you know what?

 

Most of the time they did.  

 

And when they didn't - and a few of them bleated something about that being "not fair" - why, we all laughed....  

 

Truly competitive people can't stand being laughed at. It's an immaturity matter. And as Tim might have said "Some of the boogahs should joost get used to it...".

 

DCN    

Edited by Doug Nye, 18 November 2017 - 19:46.

[D28]

I share kayemod's viewing habits for F1, and also share in his dotage years, no offense intended, I think we are about the same vintage.

I'm unsure how much of my declining interest in F1 is due to aging, some I think, but not all.

My interest peaked in my youth definitely the 3 l years but I remained interested somewhat until the current engine formula. I attended my last race in 1998 and was chagrined to realize how little I received for the ticket price. The paddock was closed to spectators and there was no closeup viewing of the cars and the mechanics at work. This was always one of the main attractions and the sealing off of the show from most of the customers was a decider for me. Since 2000, the situation has only worsened.

The things I dislike about F1 are familiar enough, tire management strategies and 1 supplier, limited fields, no private entries, down force dominance in design focus, no hairy conventional racing engines, and a formula that forces all entrants to use the same basic engine design.  But above all the inability to overtake easily, so that qualifying and pit stops are often the whole race.

I cannot see many positives in the proposals by Liberty and F1 insiders that would rekindle my enthusiasm for F1. They will just have to soldier on without me, not a problem for them really.

Edited by D28, 18 November 2017 - 21:01.

[retriever]

When the FIA in 1995 sold the rights to Formula One Administration and Mr Ecclestone. The rot started then. 

 

Also when every other driver started a sentence with the words "For sure".

[Lee Nicolle]

F1 is boring. And for many people inaccesable as well with no FTA TV.

I used to be interested enough to watch it until maybe 20 years ago, since then more sporadically until now basically nothing. And just follow the results.

The cars have gone stupidly hi tech, with the stupid hybrid crap and sound like a turbo kiddy car!. Sorry actually worse! Then there is the flappy wings, and these days the mad boffins nightmare aero, especially those stupid 20 element front wings. That and 5 lap tyres!

Many have said the death of Senna etc. While my memories of that are still fresh [I turned the TV on just as he went into the wall] it was very sad but the racecars still had a semblance to a racecar.

F1 and far too much motorsport has become 'entertainment' and not a sport. I like Dougs comments above, especially about half a field!

[DCapps]

Wow! I guessed I must of missed something... If it died, which does not seem to be the case since I still see it popping up in the television schedules and sporting pages....

 

OH!!!! Now I get it! The question is really, "When did you lose interest in F1?" Has not this question been asked a few times already over the now 18 years of the forum?

[GMACKIE]

No, it has not died...it is being kept alive by artificial means.

 

Not sure of the date, but when it ceased to be a 'SPORT', and became a 'BUSINESS', I lost interest.

[Nick Planas]

 

For me, a mere 20 cars on the starting grid - fewer than half of them threatening to be at all competitive - is the biggest current problem

... quite. And yet, I recall some grands prix from the late 1960s which were exciting at the time (or so I thought - at the time) with 15 starters or less. 

Just taking an example for comparison from the 1969 Spanish Grand Prix:

Of the 14 entries,

9 drivers had already won at least one grand prix. 2 more drivers would go on to win grands prix, the remaining three were all capable but either had no luck, or in the case of Piers Courage, would not live long enough to get the chance.

4 were past / current World Champions, 2 more would go on to be World Champions (one posthumously)

Sadly 5 of them would die in a racing car within the next 2 1/2 years 

6 Marques were represented, 4 of which won a race that year, the other two had won races in the past and would in the future.

After 56 of the 90 laps half the field had retired, and only 6 eventually finished. The winner (JYS) finished 2 laps ahead of 2nd place (Bruce) and 3 laps ahead of 3rd placed man (J-PB)

 

So you could argue that the quality of the grid was higher than nowadays.

 

By way of comparison

This year's Brazil GP from last weekend

20 entries

8 drivers have already won more than one grand prix; who knows how many of the remainder will one day grace the top step but looking at them I can think of at least 4 who should.

4 are past / current World Champions, I can think of two almost dead certs in the future.

10 marques are represented, only 3 of which are likely to be on the list of winners this year (Doug's point being proven there); of the remainder another 4 have won GPs in previous years (5 if you count Force India from its Jordan days)

16 cars of the twenty finished; it would probably have been more but for the severe case of dodgem cars on the first lap...

Less than 6 seconds separated the first four cars AND if (if...if...if...) there had been a couple more laps there could easily have been a different winner.

 

I would say that shows that things are definitely different, but that MY golden age of the '60s was by no means perfect.

 

And Lee, some of the races are boring but it's worth looking at some old YouTube footage from the 1960s and 70s if you want real boredom... (by which I mean cars pounding round at 20 second intervals for the final 2/3rds of a race!)

 

It's just different today folks, and somewhere out there are a bunch of kids who've just watched the Brazilian GP and will be writing about it in 50 years time and how inspired they were to see such a quality field...

[HP]

It's changing all the times and so far I managed to adapt.

 

There's this saying: If it's not changing it's dead.

 

So far F1 ain't dead and me neither. F1 could be better though, but for better or worse, I'm not making the rules.

[uffen]

F1 hasn't died, but it has been severely wounded. For me the first serious wound was in 1989 with the introduction of the flappy paddle gear change. The wounds continued to be inflicted with driver aids but thankfully most were excised. But, damage continued to be done by many of the items and actions mentioned already. Next year's halo will inflict serious carnage and while F1 will continue to live it will be a pale shadow of what it once was.

[Rob Miller]

When they started talking about "our package".

[Charlieman]

When I went away to university in 1981, I followed motorsport less closely than previously. I watched enough F1 races on TV to see good and bad things happening. The sport changed slowly and in spite of BCE's entry restrictions a few interesting teams emerged. Mansell mania was a sort of new phenomenon which I observed from a distance.

 

I started to watch F1 more seriously in 1988 because a girlfriend owned a TV set. When I saw the Prost/Senna collisions in 1989 and 1990 I noted that F1 was changing in ways that I found unpleasant. A few years later when you couldn't really believe that the Benneton team was acting honestly, I concluded that sporting values had plummeted. Ironically, it encouraged my interest; success by honest teams and drivers was such a delight. When I watch F1 today, it is in the knowledge that a driver may regard it acceptable to drive into another.

 

It may seem irrelevant to F1 on the surface, but I think TV coverage of the BTCC touring cars changed perceptions of acceptable conduct across motorsport. Drivers behaved appallingly on and off the track. It made good TV, but only by mimicking the standards of commercial wrestling. It has delivered detrimental effects across our sport.

[Charlieman]

I'm a supporter of the small team/private entrant/cannon fodder/mobile chicanes faction - 30 or more on the grid for a proper Show.  As Tim Parnell used to say "Mek the boogahs up front work for their money" - and to his mid-field drivers "Just don't lose time when they come up to lap you - if they're any good at all, don't you worry.... they'll find a way by...".

I agree with the principle in professional motor racing. Slow coaches in short races for historics or club events often show more generosity to front runners -- I welcome their good manners.

 

One problem in current F1 is the dreary reliability. When a car experiences problems, it tends to come to a full stop. We rarely see a driver struggling with a 90% working car. Occasionally a driver persists after a chunk of floor or aero vane gets wiped out, often at speeds which make you question whether the missing bit made much difference.

[Nick Planas]

When I watch F1 today, it is in the knowledge that a driver may regard it acceptable to drive into another.

 

It may seem irrelevant to F1 on the surface, but I think TV coverage of the BTCC touring cars changed perceptions of acceptable conduct across motorsport. Drivers behaved appallingly on and off the track. It made good TV, but only by mimicking the standards of commercial wrestling. It has delivered detrimental effects across our sport.

I think F1 driving standards is this regard have improved in the last few years in most cases - perhaps due to the stewarding but also because the top guys have not all copied Schumacher. One reason why I can never think of MS, for all his undoubted talent, as a true great was his ruthlessness in simply driving into opponents at critical moments.

 

One reason why I regard Lewis Hamilton as a truly great driver is his refusal to stoop to those levels. There's only one top driver out there whose reflexes have appeared to lean towards this course of action, and he hasn't won a championship for four years now... But you don't see the likes of Alonso, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, etc resorting to these tactics. It's still a sport when the lights go out.

 

Right, that's all too recent for the nostalgia forum. I'll shut up now!

[Eric Dunsdon]

Very interesting thoughts and replies which rather confirm my status as old curmudgeon I'm afraid.  I agree that my opinions are based on what I saw and read about mostly as a teenage enthusiast. The sport that I fell in love with then no longer exists. I recall that back then, an old timer (probably in his thirties!) telling me that what I enjoyed watching at Silverstone and Goodwood was all very well but it had little to do with what he called 'Real Motor Racing' . I sometimes wish that I could share some of the enthusiasm of those less biased and more able to have moved on than I have. Meanwhile its back to the history books for me.

[nicanary]

Selling commercial rights for a quid. I'd have paid double that, and at least we'd still have a sport rather than an organised entertainment.

[chunder27]

About 2009.

[john aston]

I love rock and other contemporary  music genres. And I wish I had a pound for every miserable old git (tragically, often younger than  I am) telling me 'it's all the  same now, all this stuff done by computers, now when  I were a lad  (pick some random date which could be early seventies to late eighties ) we had proper songs and bands . etc. No ,not bought or downloaded anything for years apart from remastered old stuff . '  Tragically these poor wights miss out on a huge amount of brilliant stuff but if I say 'Heard Dawes? Or Silver Seas? Or Bjork or Saint Vincent  ? ' the response will be 'Nah mate It  can't be as good  as '73 was etc.' And , as I mentioned earlier in this thread '73 was only good because he was 18 and finally made some progress with his mate's sister Sue..

 

Grand Prix racing is like that. Some of the modern stuff infuriates - bloody joke circuits in joke places  like Baku , daft penalty regime , silly DRS - but , ultimately it is still the same mano a mano binary contest - who blinks first ?  And the best drivers demonstrate exactly the same skills as Stirling , Jimmy , Jochen , Ayrton , Niki , Nelson or Jack  . And if few of them  behave with the exuberance of an Innes , Mike or a James I can live with that - in fact it's probably a plus for me as exhibitionism was never a trait I found even a tiny bit endearing. I don't miss drivers being incinerated and /or eviscerated either .

 

The biggest change, and the one I really do loathe with a passion,  is the fact that 'F1 ' is no longer seen by most as the pinnacle of the far bigger thing called motor sport(starting with trials and hillclimbs , drag racing and club rallies and progressing via club racing to international racing - F3 , F2 , Indy and sports cars - to the Grand Prix pinnacle). Most .ahem ..fans .watch lots of televised F1 (and BTCC if there's nowt else on )  , rarely, if ever,  attend live motor sport and are heroically ignorant about its many facets but still , STILL!  think they know about motor sport. It's easy really - watch the telly showing pictures the director has decided to show them , listen to the commentator telling them what they're seeing , add three cans of lager and hey presto- Instant  Expert fanboy is created , with added tribalism and a predisposition to conspiracy theories ('You know that Mercedes fixed it so that big girl Rosberg  won last year? You didn't ? Look , read this link mate . Course it's genuine pal - I wasn't born yesterday '  

 

Harrumph     

Edited by john aston, 19 November 2017 - 17:52.

[2F-001]

If I may exercise the music metaphor a little more...

I think one problem that many of my generation have is that we grew up with motor racing as an interest we felt we had had to 'find' for ourselves (I'll get to the music in a Minuet) and work quite hard to find information or media coverage if we couldn't attend a particular meeting - and even harder to learn any 'inside' stuff; and we craved more tv coverage, and more tv coverage that wasn't crudely interrupted by interminable footage from the collecting rings for state-endorsed gambling on the enforced athletic performance of pre-deceased pet food.

Now we are drip fed masses of information and race coverage, slickly packaged as ready-made entertainment - with many more folks watching (and as John says, without any first-hand involvement or effort and devour it all with insatiable appetites). And the old hands feel cheated, feeling that their sport has been taken away from them, repackaged as a brand and sold to the World.

But hey, that's the way it is; for years we bemoaned the lack of coverage and recognition, we exhorted our less enthusiastic friends to take an interest. But in reality (even if we didn't know it at the time) we wanted to keep it exclusive and arcane and untainted by the wider world.

When The Beatles came back from Hamburg, as a hardened, more polished and worldly-wise band, ready to be managed, packaged and spun as a brand, their old fans - who faithfully supported them at the Cavern Club - felt they had lost them, that 'their' group had been taken from them and sold to the World.

Edited by 2F-001, 19 November 2017 - 18:40.

[2F-001]

I remember someone saying that motor racing died as a sport when car owners started employing professional drivers (i.e: more than a Century ago…).

[jm70]

About 1988.  I had followed it since 1960.  I was a Steward at the early Long Beach races and worked in race control.   I continued to follow until about 1988/89.  At the Phoenix F1 race I went Saturday and worked the Trans-AM race.  I had week end credentials and stayed home Sunday.  I think that the first F1 race I went to was Watkins Glen in 1967 might have spoiled me for what followed.  I believe that had the best field of drivers and it continued downhill ever after.  And frankly, I blame Bernie.

[guiporsche]

I entirely subscribe to @Johnaston's above comment, while adding two points of my own:

 

a) the sheer decline in the quality of English-written motorsports journalism isince the past, say, ten years. There's remarkably few journalists capable of analysing the sport in an unbiased way while rendering the technical side intelligible to any layman. The only I can think of is Mark Hughes; Maurice Hamilton and Richard Williams also deserving much respect for their books. Most of the rest, even if masquerading as journalists, seem to me to be great specialists in the dark arts of spreading rumours and jingoistic opinion-making. Internet changed the way motorsports journalism is produced and sold, but the underlying problem is one of ethics and education, or lack of it. And while journalists have never been impervious to pressures and financial interests, motorsports used to be a niche with better standards.

 

b) the advent of pay-per-view TV, which in my country began in the mid-2000s and basically killed mainstream (besides my own) societal interest for the sport. Only recently I've resumed following F1 again and only because of its primeval qualities: the 'mano a mano' between drivers, engineers, teams. And let's see how long it will last, as I'm not too confident about Liberty's ability NOT to transform F1 into either some sort of Nascar open-wheeler series or a concoction prioritizing aero cars that can't pass themselves - F1 has always evolved and adapted to contemporary challenges, and that's the key to assure its long-term future.

 

P.S. I do find Nascar great actually, which is also precisely why I think F1 should not go down that route.

Edited by guiporsche, 19 November 2017 - 19:19.

[F1matt]

It hasn't died yet but the organisers are doing their best to alienate fans with 3 engines per season and the introduction of the halo and other crazy ideas.It looks to be dying a slow death and I think it will eventually merge with formula E but that is a different discussion. I feel priveledged to have attended events in the late 70's and 80's and will be eternally grateful to my late father for that, I had to rely on his stories of races in the 50's and 60's......

[kento11]

The first race I saw live was 1964 Aintree 200. Alot has changed, of course but for the good or bad, hard to say.  Safety has improved greatly (very good), mechanical reliability has greatly improved (good), Driver professionalism has grown (good? maybe), Sterile courses (not so good but then safer), over regulation(bad) big money (good and bad). I guess we could go on and on. I still watch it and some times get frustrated but there is a lot in life that is frustrating. I even get frustrated at how difficult it is to add pictures to this forum.

[elansprint72]

This question reminds me why I seldom bother to look in here these days.

[2F-001]

Well, that's a shame Pete. But could you explain what you mean - (genuinely, I'm not sure I understand).
Do you not like the original question (which I took to be deliberately provocative - and presumptive, but an interesting opportunity to explore own perceptions of how racing has changed)?
Or that too many seem to be dismissive of current Grand Prix racing?
Or do you feel that F1 has indeed died, and you don't want to pick over its bones?

[DCapps]

This question reminds me why I seldom bother to look in here these days.

 

I think that Pete does have a point. Just saying....

[uffen]

 

 

Grand Prix racing is like that. Some of the modern stuff infuriates - bloody joke circuits in joke places  like Baku , daft penalty regime , silly DRS - but , ultimately it is still the same mano a mano binary contest - who blinks first ?  And the best drivers demonstrate exactly the same skills as Stirling , Jimmy , Jochen , Ayrton , Niki , Nelson or Jack  . And if few of them  behave with the exuberance of an Innes , Mike or a James I can live with that - in fact it's probably a plus for me as exhibitionism was never a trait I found even a tiny bit endearing. I don't miss drivers being incinerated and /or eviscerated either .

 

You've only listed a very few of the things that infuriate. Add quiet engines, goose-liver tires, the requirement to use two different tire compounds (not of your choice), track limits or no track limits, driver aids despite the rule against them, reluctance in wet weather, 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 grids, fuel conservation, blue flags for lapping, engine maps that give temporary power advantages, engines that get "confused" by a driver taking a corner faster than usual, extremes of have/have not teams, altitude/humidity/temperature, etc. customized fuels, data being beamed across the world, and on and on. It grinds one down, it really does. It adds up.

 

The drivers demonstrate some of the same skills as those you mentioned, shifting gears sure isn't one of them. They also demonstrate skills that didn't exist back in the day, like setting engine maps based on radio instructions, and pushing a speed limit button when the enter the pit lane. Skills that I don't care about one whit.

 

I'm with you on the exhibitionism and incineration and maiming.

[Bonde]

Like many others have stated, times change and "effwone" along with it. I guess there are more people "following" it now than when I was a keen fan 1972-1984 and sporadically so 1985 'till about 2000.

 

It didn't die - for most of us on TNF, I think Formula One and old fans just grew apart. As others have also observed, one's favourite period tends to be the one where one first caught the bug, typically in one's teens.

 

I started loosing interest when Giga Bucks ('twas already Mega Bucks when it caught my interest), Computers, Carbonfibre & Wind Tunnels became de rigeur, taking most of the artistry, inspiration, craftsmanship and pure graft out of the equation, breaking the lineage from the brilliant seeds of amateur designers of, say Formula 750 cars, to be replaced by the money needed and available for more or less anonymous nine-to-five corporate PhD engineering teams.

 

Tilkedromes in new-rich countries, paddle shifting, pit stops, regulations that mandate near-identical cars, grooved tyres and 'orrible aerodynamics pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me. And car 'brands' named after caffeinated sugar water...good grief (but then

Specials had been named after cancer sticks and other strange things in the US for about a century...)

 

Being an Olde Farte now, I do enjoy occasionally attending historic racing - lovely looking and sounding cars, full accessibility to paddocks, pis and drivers. Much better value, if one can live without watching the current crop of Best Drivers trying to race.

 

BTW, did I ever mention I have hated raised noses since day one?...having said that, the 2017 cars look infinitely better than they have for ages (an easy starting point) - decent rear wing width set low and aft (mimicking mid 1970's to 1982), bigger rear tyres (fronts still way too fat, IMO) - and could we please get rid of about a metre of so of wheel base? Current Formula One cars are just way too long, IMO.

[eldougo]

I feel it has not died,however it is well on the way to comitting Hara-Kiri ,due to the main stream media that as have no respect for the knowledgeable viewers that have watch this sport grow and prosper since it began in 1950.However i feel like 2F-001 said about the Beatles...( they had lost them, that 'their' group had been taken from them and sold to the World)....Bernie took it to the top good or bad it has happened, however the NEW social media world and very illed informed journo (if you could call them that) stooped to rake the bottom of the barrel too get a scoop or dirt on some driver or team and from my point of view out here in Australia the UK media have helped in it's decline.

Also the UK governing body that have let the media run it and completely ignored the RULES of racing just to get more TV money.They are the major group that have allowed this to happen lower formale races and worst of all the Touring cars racers have taken it down to this decline we see now .All because by NOT sticking to the rule book and the media use it to sensationlise the rule breakers and now its a common place to see driver disregarding the RULES of racing to their own benefit time and time again.And the FIA fell into this trap set by the UK and now its' common practice to bend and break the racing driver code that been eroded away bit by bit.

And this is why i personally can't get to excited about it anymore,my only interest is Australian drivers and watch them make name for them selfs in F1. Another major factor in it's demise is the super smooth political correct track used today are BOREING to watch and then the driver use more and more track and get away with it most of the time.That alone is the BIG nail in the coffin of F1as it stand today.And these engine rule and other bullshit that they keep coming up with is a JOKE and don't get me started on the (well we did not have they right package today to win ) bollocks  you mucked up and lost it as simple as that.

Most of the comments said so far are right on the money and i guess we will have to wait and see the end of a GREAT SPORT.

[chunder27]

I guess the best answer to this is to say how long you have been a fan, and when was the last time you attended anything to do with F1.

 

I have been a fan since the early 80's  I have never been to a full F1 race, only qualifying and I stopped doing that before the end of the last century!

[eldougo]

I spent many years in the 70's working in F! and been a fan long before that.Go to the AGP every few years in Melbourne.It still a buzz to see a full field go by or a driver on hot lap.

[2F-001]

I guess the best answer to this is to say how long you have been a fan, and when was the last time you attended anything to do with F1.

I guess I first began taking real notice of (specifically) GP/F1 racing in '67 as a very young lad. First GP meeting attended 1969, the last 2017. There have, though, been some sizeable gaps between mid-80s and now - but for varying reasons: financial, a fluctuating interest through some periods, uninspiring or unattractive venues, my increasing discomfort in large crowds (and a lot more cycling events to go to).

And, to be honest, the availability of tv coverage (however much it may not be 'packaged' with the likes of me in mind) has doubtless worked its way into my own cost/comfort/convenience/involvement/atmosphere algorithm.

In recent times I've been to clubbie and historic meetings, speed events, short oval (and even watching friends testing - how dull am I?). I just accept that "F1" has mutated over time into something outwardly different: I'm probably not the prime target for its new brand-led persona, but it can still be exciting, the technology is interesting but not necessarily contributing to the quality of racing, and I find a Grand Prix's sense of occasion somewhat overblown, but I can't see myself ignoring it completely any time soon.

[2F-001]

Regarding Touring Cars (mentioned above, and thinking 'UK' here) - did I read somewhere that with the rise of the TOCA-packaged series, there was some renegotiation (i.e. relaxing) of the sporting code in regard to body-contact, with specific regard to touring cars? Or have I dreamt that?

Someone with whom I used to have fairly frequent contact, had in the past quite often served as Clerk-of-the-Course at professional series, including the touring car package. This person told me that if faced with censuring a driver for misdemeanours - with the possibility of a licence endorsement or ban - they would almost instantly find themselves dealing not with the driver himself (usually a him) but his lawyer.

Not only did this actively discourage my acquaintance from contributing (presumably without payment) from motor racing in such a high level role, it seemed to say something awkward about what I grew thinking of as a sporting activity.

Has motor racing (or perhaps any other professional sport) become too "important" (or even self-important) for its own good? I'm sure that for those for whom it is their profession, the view will, understandably, be different.

[Terry Walker]

When you could no longer see the drivers, nor the car numbers. I began a drift to motorcycle racing around the time Valentino Rossi moved to the premier category. I was a motorbike ride for many years myself (never on a circuit though), so I have at least some idea what's going on, although why they wave their legs around before corners escapes me. And the lean angles frankly astonish me.

[2F-001]

...why they wave their legs around before corners escapes me.

I recall hearing Rossi asked about this in an interview. He said something like, "Well, I know why the others do it... it's because they've seen me do it!"

[RogerFrench]

Formula One, like Mark Twain, might well say that the report of its death is an exaggeration.
There are a number of things not to like, depending on your point of view, but we are just coming to the end of a season of competitive racing that matches anything I remember in the last 60-odd years.
My personal dislikes are bland circuits and excessive communication. I do not think anything other than safety-related information should be passed to the driver.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think 'died' is a pretty strong term. Having said that, for myself its never been the same since they introduced those disgusting regulation changes for 1998. The rot set in with that.

[ellrosso]

I think I'll go along with RogerFrench. Some of the racing has been good - Max Verstappen is extremely impressive, our own Dan Ricciardo has been impressive too with some great overtakes. I'm not a big fan of Hamilton but he's

a worthy champion. I've been to the last two Melbourne Grand Prix and been underwhelmed on both occasions - the most exciting event each time is the RAAF FA-18 demo! Only a handful of support events, each one quite processional. Maybe I was spoilt by Adelaide in 1985-86 and later years on TV, I don't know.

 

I went to Melbourne in 1996 when Damon Hill won and it just did'nt have the same spark as Adelaide. Even though the cars have more power now they still don't excite (bland noise). Coming away from the track I wondered whether there were any 11 year old boys filled with dreams of becoming a racing driver as I was leaving my first race meeting back in 1967.......

 

I was more impressed watching Ricciardo doing two hot laps in the RB7 at Eastern Creek a couple of years back - sounded quick, was quick and he was pushing hard. 1.11.4 with fresh tyres - fantastic stuff! Moto GP is much more exciting than F1 at the moment.