25 replies to this topic

[Paul Collins]

Sounds great, no classic races planned for the initial event, but organisers say hopefully in the future.

I might go for a look as I'm usually down that way around early August each year.

From the onboard lap with Plater it looks interesting.

https://m.youtube.co...x&v=s-zgQPFYNK4

https://www.welshroadrace.com/

Edited by Paul Collins, 19 November 2017 - 20:48.

[Risil]

This looks fantastic! Will they do something about the sheep though?

[Paul Collins]

As Plater mentions on his video, they will either be in the deep freeze, or removed by the farmer prior to the event.

I understand they used this circuit for a few years just after WW2, with all of the names from the time, Les Graham etc, competing there, interestingly the lap record in those days was held by a 350 not a 500, which makes me think it will be more of a 600 circuit than a superbike circuit given its twists and turns, there certainly doesn't look to be anywhere to get a superbike wound up in top gear for very long!!

[tonyed]

This looks fantastic! Will they do something about the sheep though?

Use them instead of straw bales, nice and soft. 

[chunder27]

Isn't Epynt always spelt with one n!

[Vitesse2]

Paul Collins, on 19 Nov 2017 - 22:13, said:

I understand they used this circuit for a few years just after WW2, with all of the names from the time, Les Graham etc, competing there, interestingly the lap record in those days was held by a 350 not a 500, which makes me think it will be more of a 600 circuit than a superbike circuit given its twists and turns, there certainly doesn't look to be anywhere to get a superbike wound up in top gear for very long!!

I guess at that time the area was more restricted than it is now, with the roads being technically private, as there's no way even the War Department (as it was then) could have circumvented the 1930 Road Traffic Act if they were public. A bit of research reveals that Sennybridge was compulsorily purchased in 1940 as a training area, so the chances are that it became either a 'prohibited place' under the terms of the Official Secrets Act or (more likely) a 'restricted area' under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act of 1939. That Act was renewed and extended in 1940, so I think that was probably the basis on which the land was requisitioned.

 

The race website says the event continued until 1953 but gives the Korean War and increased military activity as a possibly spurious reason for its end. I suspect it may just be that the roads again became public, so racing could no longer be permitted without a specific Act of Parliament. Although, having said that, the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act of 1939 wasn't actually repealed until 1959 and some of the powers within it subsisted until 1964!

 

I have seen mentions that the armed forces did - as a training exercise - stage road races for their personnel during WW2, again presumably on the WD estate. There are some pictures around somewhere. And anyone who's seen the opening scenes of The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp will no doubt recall the precision riding of a squadron of Royal Signals motorcyclists!

[Paul Collins]

There was also a circuit at Imber Road in Warminster around the same time, again I believe it used roads which where either part of the MOD base there, or public roads which had been placed under the control of the MOD, very little information is available on the internet about it, but I did find a couple of photographs and some scans of programmes.

I went looking for the Imber Road circuit last year, but arrived at a large barrier across the road and the sound of tanks firing up ahead so wisely decided to turn my scooter around and retreat!!

Edited by Paul Collins, 20 November 2017 - 14:07.

[Steve123]

Interesting to read about Imber Road, Warminster. For the last year or two I have been researching the Warminster racing. it took place from 1948-1953, usually with 3 meetings each year.

The course is substantially unchanged today, but the surface is much improved. To find it, go over the railway bridge at Warminster and walk a short distance up Imber Road. Walk through the housing estate until; you come to the main entrance to the REME depot. You can see much of the track by looking across the entrance, or through the high wire fence which now surrounds the depot.

The course was around 1250 metres per lap, with about 10 corners, some of them very sharp. From the start, over by the railway line, it went downhill and then (after a few turns) went gently uphill along the fastest stretch approaching the entrance. On Google Earth, you can see the outline of the track.

The first meeting was about a week after the first Blandford meeting (only 20 miles away). What a contrast! Blandford was very fast; Warminster very tight and hence rather slow speeds. Despite very tight fuel rationing and rain, a crowd of 7000 attended the first meeting. Where on earth did they put them all?

Les Archer was the star of the first meeting. Entries at subsequent meetings included Bob Foster and Tommy Wood. All races were over only 6 laps, including finals.

The Warminster road race meetings seem to have included quite a lot of grass track racers. As time went on, it would seem that it remained one of the relatively few tracks which permitted the use of alcohol. I believe that the other ultra-short tracks such as Alton Towers and the earliest configuration of Cadwell Park allowed the use of alcohol, whereas most of the more important tracks such as Silverstone, Boreham and Castle Combe insisted on petrol-benzol (have I got this right? Does anybody have any more information about the alcohol/petrol-benzol divide of the 1040s/early 1050s?)

During the 1950s the "kings" of Warminster were Fred Wallis on his AJS-JAPs, Peter Ferberache (Ariel) and John Hodgkin (Vincent).

Not surprisingly, there were many complaints about the noise! There were (and still are) many family homes only a very few hundred years from the course. Not everybody appreciated the privilege of having unlicensed road racing taking place almost outside their living room window.

If anybody out there has any more information or memories, I would be glad to link up with them.

[Paul Collins]

Great info on Imber Road Steve, thanks for posting, I was much further up the road when I was looking for it, hence ending up on the edge of the tank range!! I've had another look on google earth based on your info and can see the area you are talking about, but still can't figure out the circuit layout from the many roads around the buildings.

Is there any chance you could highlight the circuit on a map and post up?

[Steve123]

Thank you for your encouragement, Paul. I have not yet worked out how to draw a map and post it. When my computer programming son visits at Christmas I will seek his help!

 

In the meantime, this might help. Put "Imber Road BA12" or "Woodcock Road BA12" into Google and go to satellite map. Imber Road is immediately west of the track, and Woodcock Road is immediately south of the railway line which goes past the startline. 

The huge workshops of the REME camp will be clearly visible.

The startline was immediately below the largest of the workshops, between that workshop and the railway line. Train passengers would have had an excellent view. 

The track direction was anti-clockwise. From the wide apron at the start, riders dropped downhill through an s-bend which must have been very crowded on the first lap. They then went past the next (smaller) workshop and then turned sharp left beside it (now going north). At the top end of this workshop they again turned sharp left onto the back "straight" (?), going fairly gently uphill. On the satellite image you can see the grassland to the north of the straight. The straight had an s-bend half way along it, which I think was then a bit sharper than it is now.

The camp entrance is at the end of the straight. At this point the course turned sharp left and the riders went south along a very short straight and then swept round to the right. They then went through some left hand sweeps with another workshop on their right, going round a piece of land which appears to have some huts on it (not clear from the satellite). They were now more or less parallel to the railway line.

Another right bend, followed by a left brought them back to the start.

All this is only about 1250 metres! If my description is hard to follow, think what it must have been like on a racing bike.

[Paul Collins]

Many thanks Steve, the area you describe is exactly where I was looking on the satellite image then, and Copheap Lane across into Woodcock Road is on my jogging route when I'm in Warminster each year, so I'm very familiar with that location around the railway bridge/Imber road junction. 

 

I'm sure I will now be able to piece the circuit roads together based on your info, i'll have another look on google earth tonight.

[BRG]

Forgive a non-biker butting in.  As a long time car rallyist, the subject of closed roads has always been of interest to me.  The stuff about Imber is also interesting as I know those ranges well, having run a rally there many years back, although not in the camp area where the track described lay. 

 

But to return to the Welsh event, of course the Eppynt ranges are very well known to the rally fraternity.

 

I guess at that time the area was more restricted than it is now, with the roads being technically private, as there's no way even the War Department (as it was then) could have circumvented the 1930 Road Traffic Act if they were public.

With some difficulty, I have identified the new circuit on the map.  The website refers to part of the track as the A487 which is nonsense as that is the coast road from Fishguard north to Aberystwyth, nowhere near to Eppynt!.  I am pretty sure that all the roads are in fact military owned as they are all used on rallies without any RTA closure orders, although the road that they are calling the 'A487' is generally open to public traffic except when the Army are playing with their toys (or we are playing with our toys of course!).  A give-away is the white line on each edge of the road which the local authority wouldn't do.

 

Whatever the legalities, it will be a challenging place for a bike race.  I know those boys are brave, but it will need real nerves and skill to race on this track.  I hope they all keep safe!

[Paul Collins]

Thank you for your encouragement, Paul. I have not yet worked out how to draw a map and post it. When my computer programming son visits at Christmas I will seek his help!

In the meantime, this might help. Put "Imber Road BA12" or "Woodcock Road BA12" into Google and go to satellite map. Imber Road is immediately west of the track, and Woodcock Road is immediately south of the railway line which goes past the startline.
The huge workshops of the REME camp will be clearly visible.
The startline was immediately below the largest of the workshops, between that workshop and the railway line. Train passengers would have had an excellent view.
The track direction was anti-clockwise. From the wide apron at the start, riders dropped downhill through an s-bend which must have been very crowded on the first lap. They then went past the next (smaller) workshop and then turned sharp left beside it (now going north). At the top end of this workshop they again turned sharp left onto the back "straight" (?), going fairly gently uphill. On the satellite image you can see the grassland to the north of the straight. The straight had an s-bend half way along it, which I think was then a bit sharper than it is now.
The camp entrance is at the end of the straight. At this point the course turned sharp left and the riders went south along a very short straight and then swept round to the right. They then went through some left hand sweeps with another workshop on their right, going round a piece of land which appears to have some huts on it (not clear from the satellite). They were now more or less parallel to the railway line.
Another right bend, followed by a left brought them back to the start.
All this is only about 1250 metres! If my description is hard to follow, think what it must have been like on a racing bike.

Got it thanks Steve 👍 Only bit I'm slightly unsure about now is at the esses on the back straight, did they go through what is now a car park and arrive at the gate with the guard house on their left, or stay on the road as it appears now, arriving at the left hander with the guard house on their right? the latter looks most feasible and would be a very ,short straight" more like a left/right flip into the right hander.

We'll get back onto Eppynt soon 😀

Edited by Paul Collins, 05 December 2017 - 18:53.

[Steve123]

I cannot be absolutely sure about he back straight. Please bear in mind that the roads around REME are in much better condition than they were in 1948, and there have been some changes. Quite a lot of the track was then concrete.

Looking at the satellite picture, there appears to be a fork about halfway along the top straight, with the upper road going up through what is now a car park, and the lower road going close to the edge of the largest workshop. I think that it is the lower road (past the workshop) which was probably part of the race track, but I cannot be entirely

sure.

[Geoff E]

Perhaps there is something of interest here (old map next to satellite photo)

http://maps.nls.uk/g...0&right=BingHyb

[Paul Collins]

Steve I think you are correct, looking at Geoff's map the original road was the one closest to the buildings.

Thanks for posting Geoff

[Paul Collins]

Anyway back to Wales, I'm hoping to visit the event next year on my way to or from Warminster, as it's not far off my route.

Not sure how easy it will be for spectators to get around the circuit though, I've heard that viewing will be restricted to a few places with no movement between those spectator areas once the event is underway, other than by buses laid on in between races.

[Paul Collins]

Anyone else on here thinking of going? If so, and if you are planning to stay overnight I would get something booked soon, as all the surrounding area seems to be pretty much sold out already, and those places with any rooms left are charging like a wounded Rhino!!

Luckily I got in early and managed to get a room for the weekend, but it took a bit of searching around.

[ERIC63]

Was thinking of going when it was first announced,but having already booked for the S100 and MGP,the finances won't permit.But even so I'm inclined to wait and see how it goes and maybe have a look next year.We would have been going  for 4 nights and it looks like a seriously expensive job for the 2 of us.If I've read it correctly,even to camp(and apparently the official campsite is nowhere near the track),it's £30 per person per night,plus £75 in total for a weekend's admission(although that is quite reasonable considering).Then on top of that,top dollar for food and a few beers.I've also heard it's £30 for a programme (if that's true,it's a bit o.t.t.). 

Also I wonder what the spectating areas will be like.About half a dozen viewing areas only accessible by bus between races should you want to watch from another spot.That's potentially thousands of people moving around between races on shuttle buses.

And then of course you've got the Welsh weather and it's definitely exposed in the Brecon Beacons.There might be a slight chance of rain   

[Paul Collins]

Yes I think this year will a huge experiment for all concerned, I avoided the 'Official Travel Partner' package deals and did my own thing on booking.com, eventually finding a room in Llandovery, which appears to be about 8 miles from the circuit, so my plan is to take my fold-up Evo electric scooter in the boot of the car and then whizz to and from the circuit on that, weather permitting of course!!

[ERIC63]

I don't know for sure if this is right,Paul but I read on another site that it might not happen.Apparently the ACU can't sanction the event,although there's no reason given.

[Paul Collins]

Information does still seem a little thin on the ground Eric, so you could be right.

Oh well, I have my room held on a free cancellation basis until the day before arrival so let's see what happens over the coming months.

[ERIC63]

Just had a look on their website and they've stopped selling tickets,at least for the moment.

[Paul Collins]

Found the MCN report online last night, they've obviously hit problems.

[ERIC63]

http://www.welshroadrace.com/

They've just issued a statement.Definitely off

Edited by ERIC63, 03 February 2018 - 09:10.

[Paul Collins]

Just seen it Eric, oh well, at least they have 18 months now to iron out any problems for 2019