1382 replies to this topic

[Fatgadget]

and in all honesty.. McLaren gave up a good Mercedes engine partnership in favour of a Honda works deal. Only to then ditch the deal and use a customer partnership with Renault. Some would say, they probably prefer the Mercedes Engine at this point but that wont happen   

 

Weather in Hungary for the weekend looks bone dry and hot. The circuit is not power sensitive so you'd expect Honda to be right up there again. Lets see what Max and RBR can do. Of course they are no match for Ferrari/Mercedes Engines at the moment at Spa or Monza, but if SIlverstone is any indication, they would be at the top end for sure. Honda have seem to develop a reliable PU which is helping RBR pick up podiums and wins when they have the chance to do so and that is the important bit. Reliability. Looking at Renault's reliability problems this year, would any fancy RBR picking up so many points this season? I do miss the odd jibe from Marco and Christian about the renault power unit. 

 

Personally i am glad Honda have come around, whether its McLaren or RBR that uses their PU is irrelevant now. I do not know the intricacies of the Honda deal with RBR/TR, but i presume Honda would be happy to supply more teams in the future if they have the capacity to do so. Stick it in the Williams for instance. good data from 3 teams and that can only mean a steeper development curve to get to the top of the pile. Williams can save a bit of money too. Why pay for an expensive Mercedes PU only to be running at the back of the grid?

That was a perfectly logical route to take. They enticed another heavy duty manufacturer into the F1  fray -check.✔ A manufacturer that paid them  hard cash to use their engines -check ✔.A manufacturer with previous pedigree - check.✔..What is  there not to like or get excited about?

[Requiem84]

For anyone who isn't following it closely:

 

Renault potentially reverting to Spec A this weekend to bolster reliability - it really is a neverending story with Renault, isn't it? Makes me extremely happy that RB went for Honda. 

 

Abiteboul hinted in Hungary that both teams may run the older Spec A engines that they still have in the pool, rather than the Spec B on which the Norris failure occurred, to bolster reliability.

[Nova]

For anyone who isn't following it closely:

 

Renault potentially reverting to Spec A this weekend to bolster reliability - it really is a neverending story with Renault, isn't it? Makes me extremely happy that RB went for Honda. 

 

 

 

 

Knowing that feeling, every year with McLaren hoping Honda had turned things around, and they had not. So albeit a Honda fan, hope Renault resolve their problems and that we get some good racing on track.

[SenorSjon]

It is Hungary, not exactly power sensitive. They could have just said that without bringing reliability into the fray.

[Clatter]

It is Hungary, not exactly power sensitive. They could have just said that without bringing reliability into the fray.

They could, but a bit of honesty doesn't go amiss. Looking at the reports on LN's issue they are talking of redesigning a part, doubtful that could be achieved in less than a week.

[Enzo308]

from the Mclaren thread...(would have been funny to see RB goes apresh*t over penalties like this)

 

https://www.autospor...alties-expected

 

Quote

The four drivers from the Renault and McLaren Formula 1 teams are set to take grid penalties at Spa and Monza when a new Spec C power unit is introduced.

Nico Hulkenberg, Daniel Ricciardo, Carlos Sainz Jr and Lando Norris have already taken penalty hits this season, and the introduction of new spec means that in each case they are likely to start from the back of the grid.

"We will have penalties after the break, we know that," Renault F1 boss Cyril Abiteboul told Autosport.

"Unfortunately that's been the plan since Bahrain, since Melbourne even for Carlos, when he had that problem with the MGU-K that caused the whole engine to be lost because of the fire.

"We know that we are on the back foot and that we are going to have to swallow a few penalties. They will come in sync with a new spec of engine [and] that will be the final spec, the Spec C.

"I don't want to confirm when and for whom that will come, but that will mean penalties and also a bit of extra power."

[SenorSjon]

So 4 Renault cars, 4 Honda's, that could be an interesting qualifying. Verstappen's back of the grid could mean 12th. 

[A3]

Surprising to hear Lewis say this:

When we get to the longer places like Monza, it could be different this year, they have a new power unit, they’re not lower than us on power.
“I think in some places they’ve got more power than us. It will be interesting to see how they go in those other places.”

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/23921

[Nova]

Surprising to hear Lewis say this:
https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/23921

 

Lewis is always going on about how others are so competitive, so when all he has to do is to beat a mediocre teammate he is really riding the ride of his life against powerful foes. Or he is close to death with illness, but still champions through. Against all odds. The best of the best. Drama to make him self look better.

 

Perhaps he is sincere here, but I prefer someone more objective to say it.

[Fatgadget]

Lewis is always going on about how others are so competitive, so when all he has to do is to beat a mediocre teammate he is really riding the ride of his life against powerful foes. Or he is close to death with illness, but still champions through. Against all odds. The best of the best. Drama to make him self look better.

 

Perhaps he is sincere here, but I prefer someone more objective to say it.

And who might that be ?

[BJHF1]

Cyril?

[NixxxoN]

Surprising to hear Lewis say this:
https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/23921

 

Not surprising at all. Its their favorite mantra "oh we are not so good, the rivals are very strong and may beat us" from Mercedes, and they'll end up winning anyway.

 

To me, looking at germany onboards, Honda still seems to lack power compared to every other engine, Renault included.

Edited by NixxxoN, 02 August 2019 - 21:50.

[BJHF1]

Well then, I’ll take it as bad advertisement for the engine side.

[Henri Greuter]

 

 

To me, looking at germany onboards, Honda still seems to lack power compared to every other engine, Renault included.

 

 

 

If true, that suggests two things, or maybe even one.

 

The RedBull chassis must be by now the class of the field again and, if that is not the case given the performances of Gasly, Max is on a different planet by now..

I think it is a case of Max still at this world but nearly if not on top and the RedBull chassis being very well by now, some of each option.

[NixxxoN]

If true, that suggests two things, or maybe even one.

 

The RedBull chassis must be by now the class of the field again and, if that is not the case given the performances of Gasly, Max is on a different planet by now..

I think it is a case of Max still at this world but nearly if not on top and the RedBull chassis being very well by now, some of each option.

 

Its so obvious that the RB chassis has mostly been and still is the class of the field, just look how it overtakes (and have used to overtake) Mercs and Ferraris... not by straightline speed, but in corners and out-braking. Remember Ricciardo's divebombings from so far back? That could only be possible with a great chassis, he can no longer do it with the Renault, poor guy

 

And yes Max is very very fast (and I dont think Gasly is at the same level and will ever be) but still should be partly closing that quite big gap and in fact he is

Edited by NixxxoN, 03 August 2019 - 07:30.

[Ivanhoe]

 To me, looking at germany onboards, Honda still seems to lack power compared to every other engine, Renault included.

In qualifying yes, on Sundays, not so sure.

[NixxxoN]

In qualifying yes, on Sundays, not so sure.

Still dont remember any RB-Honda overtake by pure power, like Merc and Ferrari usually do. Austria was because of DRS and by max being able to carry more speed than the others at T1 basically.

[Stephane]

ANd when was the last time an Honda powered car was overtaken by "pure power" ?

[blacky]

To me, looking at germany onboards, Honda still seems to lack power compared to every other engine, Renault included.

 

Yep, I remember a scene in Hockenheim when a STR was dead even with HAM or BOT accelerating out of the corner but the Mercedes pulled away. Alex Wurz immediately said that it is obvious that they are still lacking a bit.

Edited by blacky, 03 August 2019 - 09:38.

[NixxxoN]

Yep, I remember a scene in Hockenheim when a STR was dead even with HAM or BOT accelerating out of the corner but the Mercedes pulled away. Alex Wurz immediately said that it is obvious that they are still lacking a bit.

 

It's here at 5:25 mark... Hamilton vs Albon. Sainz and Gasly behind. Hamilton runs wide and has a terrible corner exit and loses a lot of speed, yet recovers it all in the end. Look at Ham and Sainz accelerating how fast they are, then look at the TR and RB

 

Edited by NixxxoN, 03 August 2019 - 09:45.

[TomNokoe]

Surprising to hear Lewis say this:
https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/23921

Hamilton is confusing power for straight line speed.

The Red Bull is less draggy than the Mercedes.

[muramasa]

It's here at 5:25 mark... Hamilton vs Albon. Sainz and Gasly behind. Hamilton runs wide and has a terrible corner exit and loses a lot of speed, yet recovers it all in the end. Look at Ham and Sainz accelerating how fast they are, then look at the TR and RB

 

Cannot be fair comparison because Albon was always on wet part throughout Parabolika while Ham was either or both on drier line all the way or/and in a tow from T4 to hairpin. Also Ham recovered at hairpin partly because Ham overshot abit as well, and Sainz and Ham accelerating faster out of hairpin because Ham's overshooting squeezed Albon and compromised Albon's hairpin exit.

Also you are conveniently ignoring Albon's rapidly closing in on Sainz and Ham in very short distance from hairpin to T7 then T8 despite having aforementioned slow exit from hairpin.

 

Besides at the latter stage of the race, Kvyat passed a Racing ◉ BWT Mercedes immediately while Bottas with a Brixworth Power Unit couldn't pass the exact same Racing ◉ BWT Mercedes car for many laps before eventually spin-crash.

 

Honda is weakest PU as Tanabe himself publicly say almost every race and data from GPs suggest, but still you need to be fair and accurate, not cherrypick convenient things, in order to assess things. Overall everything averaged Honda PU is weakest no doubt but not comprehensively, not inferior in every single items and circumstances/situations, looks like at least in few items and conditions Honda is not the worst albeit marginally.

[Andy35]

What would Fernando have done today in a Honda powered Mclaren ?

 

 

( This is like me waving a sausage under my dogs nose and saying " Well, you will never know"  )

[NixxxoN]

Cannot be fair comparison because Albon was always on wet part throughout Parabolika while Ham was either or both on drier line all the way or/and in a tow from T4 to hairpin. Also Ham recovered at hairpin partly because Ham overshot abit as well, and Sainz and Ham accelerating faster out of hairpin because Ham's overshooting squeezed Albon and compromised Albon's hairpin exit.

Also you are conveniently ignoring Albon's rapidly closing in on Sainz and Ham in very short distance from hairpin to T7 then T8 despite having aforementioned slow exit from hairpin.

 

Besides at the latter stage of the race, Kvyat passed a Racing ◉ BWT Mercedes immediately while Bottas with a Brixworth Power Unit couldn't pass the exact same Racing ◉ BWT Mercedes car for many laps before eventually spin-crash.

 

Honda is weakest PU as Tanabe himself publicly say almost every race and data from GPs suggest, but still you need to be fair and accurate, not cherrypick convenient things, in order to assess things. Overall everything averaged Honda PU is weakest no doubt but not comprehensively, not inferior in every single items and circumstances/situations, looks like at least in few items and conditions Honda is not the worst albeit marginally.

 

You can see with your own eyes that Albon exits the corner in much more speed yet Hamilton catches him in the end, and overshooting if anything is bad for Hamilton.

I ignore Albon closing in on Sainz/Ham because they obviously lifted off at that corner so...

[kosmos]

What would Fernando have done today in a Honda powered Mclaren ?

 

 

( This is like me waving a sausage under my dogs nose and saying " Well, you will never know"  )

 

 

 

Not getting pole, not getting into the podium and not winning the race. He is better in the beach with his girlfriend.

[BJHF1]

You can see with your own eyes that Albon exits the corner in much more speed yet Hamilton catches him in the end, and overshooting if anything is bad for Hamilton.
I ignore Albon closing in on Sainz/Ham because they obviously lifted off at that corner so...

It’s rather pointless using one scenario in a hour and half long race to try and compare PU performance. I mean there was scenarios where Vettel looked like a sitting duck compared to Verstappen in Silverstone. A lot depends on the engine mode they’re in and the state of the battery. Any PU can be made to look bad or good in such cases.

[NixxxoN]

It’s rather pointless using one scenario in a hour and half long race to try and compare PU performance. I mean there was scenarios where Vettel looked like a sitting duck compared to Verstappen in Silverstone. A lot depends on the engine mode they’re in and the state of the battery. Any PU can be made to look bad or good in such cases.

You dont put conservative mode when trying to overtake someone and at the same time defend of other cars behind.

[Otaku]

I wonder what new excuse will some people come up with now... RB-Honda beating everyone on merit, on a dry track, in qualy. Half a second to the ferraris too...

[Anuity]

Poor Mclaren. Despite all the PR talk, all this must hurt big time.

[BJHF1]

You dont put conservative mode when trying to overtake someone and at the same time defend of other cars behind.

Alright then. I guess we will just assume they were all at full beans then.

[ArrowsLivery]

Poor Mclaren. Despite all the PR talk, all this must hurt big time.

As their fans would have you know, McLaren is happier than ever being 4th in the WCC and picking up 7th places in the race, never being a podium threat.

[statman]

another milestone, congratz to Honda!

[Anuity]

As their fans would have you know, McLaren is happier than ever being 4th in the WCC and picking up 7th places in the race, never being a podium threat.

 

I am not a Mclaren fan and like the team, I hope to see them back on top one day. But it is really annoying what they did, I was saying it since mid 2017, it was a fatal, and absolutely disastrous decision to split with Honda. I cannot understand how anybody can be happy with what the team is doing now. They looked way more promising in the end of 2017.