Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

I cannot polish the Yas Marina circuit, but I can fix it.


  • Please log in to reply
173 replies to this topic

#1 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 16,629 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:00

Since the race is fresh in our minds and so is the frustration with lack of overtaking, here are my ideas to fix the circuit.

 

https://imgur.com/a/5Wjcg

 

1 - The original turns 5, 6 and 7 sequence is horrible. It doesn't help overtaking, there is no real challenge for the drivers and it creates no real spectacle. My idea is to substitute it for a simple hairpin before the long straight. Why? Because the hairpin would leave the defending drivers more vunerable by forcing them to compromise either cornery entry or corner exit.

 

2 - The current chincane at the end of the straight is too slow and absolutely unchallenging. Without an absurd DRS advantage, it doesn't even help overtaking on the straight after it. A quicker left right flick would suddenly make it a more challenging corner in which hitting the apex and getting an ideal line would make a greater difference down the subsequent straight. So mistakes would be punished and defending drivers would have to hit the spot.

 

3 - Turns 11, 12, 13 and 14 are horrible. Triple chincane followed by very short straight and 90 degree corner; whoever was responsible for this should never design a circuit again. Yeah. The idea here is to replace the chincane by a simple left hand corner which would be favorable for overtaking on both corner entry and exit if the defending driver miscalculates his defense. The run to what is now turn 14 would be a little longer and perhaps also allow some dive bombing for the most obstinate drivers.

 

None of these changes would make it a great circuit. All the money in the world can build terrrific facilities but such an ill concieved circuit is beyond repair without massive reconstructions. But it might make the racing better. It could hardly make it worse.


Edited by Atreiu, 29 November 2017 - 20:12.


Advertisement

#2 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 6,923 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:09

1 - The original turns 5, 6 and 7 sequence is horrible. It doesn't help overtaking, there is no real challenge for the drivers and it creates no real spectacle. My idea is to substitute it for a simple hairpin before the long straight. Why? Because the hairpin would leave the defending drivers more vunerable by forcing them to compromise either cornery entry or corner exit.

 

The worst thing about it is that there's already a simple hairpin there. Just used in different track configurations. Supposedly they can't use that layout in F1 and have to go through the chicane because of lack of runoff. Because, you know, it's not like that circuit was built from scratch basically without space and budget limitations, they couldn't simply put the stands further away... 



#3 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 16,213 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:28

Did anyone catch Ted's bit with Tilke? He says they're working on reprofiling one turn to open things up. WeWillSee. Not holding my breath.



#4 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 7,292 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:35

Hamilton and Vettel were talking about the track needing changes in the cool down room.

 

You know things are bad when the drivers start slagging off your track on the live feed.



#5 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 34,790 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:36

Been saying for years this is the worst circuit i have EVER seen. It is way too fiddly, too many pointless turns, just cut out half the corners and bang, it's fixed.

 

Absolutely horrid track. 



#6 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 29,861 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:37

The worst thing about it is that there's already a simple hairpin there. Just used in different track configurations. Supposedly they can't use that layout in F1 and have to go through the chicane because of lack of runoff. Because, you know, it's not like that circuit was built from scratch basically without space and budget limitations, they couldn't simply put the stands further away...


To make it worse, the runoff at the next corner goes under the stands to bring the stands closer to the track. Why didn’t they do that at the hairpin too?

#7 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:47

all tracks should have turns wide enough with a little bit of banking to run side by side...

 

P J 1 could be used to widen  out the groove where necessary..



#8 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 6,923 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:47

The layout itself looks like a typical street circuit to me - something dictated by the surroundings and existing roads. But for some unfathomable reason that's what Mr Tilke came up with working from a blank slate. I just can't understand it. 



#9 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 16,629 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:56

The layout itself looks like a typical street circuit to me - something dictated by the surroundings and existing roads. But for some unfathomable reason that's what Mr Tilke came up with working from a blank slate. I just can't understand it.


To accomodate the hotels, surely, but over half the track is unrestricted and was still horribly concieved.

What a waste.

#10 Frank Tuesday

Frank Tuesday
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:59

Also: turn 15 to turn 21 should just be a gentle bend running parallel to the straight. Instead they had to make it go under the hotel.  They'd rather have a terrible track that goes under their hotel than a good one that does not.  Everything you need to know about the track is right there. 



#11 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 11,041 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:01

The layout itself looks like a typical street circuit to me - something dictated by the surroundings and existing roads. But for some unfathomable reason that's what Mr Tilke came up with working from a blank slate. I just can't understand it. 

 

In part, he had to build it around the marina and the cock-shaped hotel the local rulers wanted as an extension.

 

The rest of it he had more free reign in is still shite however.



#12 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 34,790 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:01

T14 should join to tT1, turns 15,16,17,18,19 and 20 are just absolute rubbish. 



#13 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 19,924 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:15

I still remember when we were supposed to believe turns 2, 3 and 4 were gonna be the "new Eau Rouge".  :up:



#14 ArrowsLivery

ArrowsLivery
  • Member

  • 3,655 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:21

It’s ridiculous how Tilke had a blank slate and he made that piece of trash track. The man should be banned from motorsports.

#15 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 7,561 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:30

You could tell Ted wanted to air him out in his notebook, and I wish he did it. Can't believe so many people entrust billions to just 1 circuit designer. Especially when he desgns turd track after turd track these days.



#16 thegamer23

thegamer23
  • Member

  • 11,867 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:30

Tilke talked about a "slight" change that can have big effect on racing.
And it won't be the first chicane

Wonder what it can be.

Edited by thegamer23, 29 November 2017 - 18:31.


#17 thegforcemaybewithyou

thegforcemaybewithyou
  • Member

  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:35

Easily fixed. It might need some new barriers at the Tamburello.

 

rImd8CG.jpg



#18 TheWilliamzer

TheWilliamzer
  • Member

  • 1,069 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:36

I think the best things about Yas Marina are not the circuit or the racing. It's like a festival of eye candy over-expensive shows and an island of luxery show off that happens to have a race associated to it.

#19 turk157

turk157
  • Member

  • 177 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:38

No amount of fixing will help

Yas Marina like it sounds should be a fishing port not a f1 track.



Advertisement

#20 August

August
  • Member

  • 3,234 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 18:43

T14 should join to tT1, turns 15,16,17,18,19 and 20 are just absolute rubbish. 

 

Just ship the bridge from Valencia to go over the harbor into the T1.



#21 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 8,103 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 29 November 2017 - 19:09

Did anyone catch Ted's bit with Tilke? He says they're working on reprofiling one turn to open things up. WeWillSee. Not holding my breath.

This I presume. 

 

 

7:15



#22 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 5,674 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 November 2017 - 19:31

Yas Marina is a terrible track. It cost Ferrari the 2010 WDC.  :down:

 

 ;)



#23 stewie

stewie
  • Member

  • 3,282 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2017 - 19:38

You can roll a turd in glitter, but it's still a turd. Oh to get back to have Brazil as season finale.

#24 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 18,961 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 29 November 2017 - 21:31

If not for commercial considerations, Yas Marina is a race track that should be replaced with something else. If it's a new track, let have someone else than Tilke have a go at it. There must be other capable people around able to design a race track besides Tilke.



#25 FredrikB

FredrikB
  • Member

  • 1,126 posts
  • Joined: May 00

Posted 29 November 2017 - 21:32

Tilke talked about a "slight" change that can have big effect on racing.
And it won't be the first chicane

Wonder what it can be.

 

Hopefully re-profiling many of the corners with flat or even negative camber. You need some banking to be able to run side by side, and that is the main problem with this track. There is only one line through the corners.



#26 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 29,861 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:02

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

 

yas_marina_circuit_map.jpg

 

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

 

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

 

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

 

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

 

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.

 



#27 thegamer23

thegamer23
  • Member

  • 11,867 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:07

You made Abu Dhabi to look interesting. :up:

#28 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 19,924 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:09

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.


That's pretty damn cool, but I'm not sure there's realistic enough space for the overpass.

#29 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 29,861 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:13

That's pretty damn cool, but I'm not sure there's realistic enough space for the overpass.


I’d say there’s more space than there is at Suzuka. The hill would be artificial of course.

#30 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 17,425 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:31

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.
 
yas_marina_circuit_map.jpg
 
To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.
 
In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.
 
I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.
 
At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.
 
The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.

Genius! Make it happen!

#31 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 24,163 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:33

<nuke.gif>



#32 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 28,496 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:34

Just bulldoze it, turn it into a carpark for all the tasteless shitty buildings and go race on a circuit somewhere.



#33 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 5,416 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:34

I think the best thing to do with YAS Marina is probably to turn it into a car park.

Wait, it already is, isn't it?

Not my favourite track, to put it mildly. Finishing the season there is even worse. The epitome of the term 'utterly **** modern day F1 circuit', if such a thing is in the dictionary. Fiddly, featureless, boring, no overtaking, no history, no atmosphere however many pyrotechnics they throw at it, if every F1 race ever held at this sanitised sh*thole was erased from history I doubt many people would notice. Except probably Nico Rosberg.

#34 Vielleicht

Vielleicht
  • Member

  • 5,959 posts
  • Joined: June 16

Posted 29 November 2017 - 22:37

Seem to remember the Populous folks, of most recent Silverstone iteration (non-)fame, published a while back what they would do with Yas Marina...

abudhabibypopulous.jpg

I can't work out what went though their minds about that section after T4 :confused:


Edited by Vielleicht, 29 November 2017 - 22:38.


#35 RacingGreen

RacingGreen
  • Member

  • 3,015 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:37

T14 should join to tT1, turns 15,16,17,18,19 and 20 are just absolute rubbish. 

 

 It can't the marina is in the way

 

yas_marina_track_image.jpg?itok=pdGbz45t



#36 MKSixer

MKSixer
  • Member

  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 30 November 2017 - 02:56

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

 

yas_marina_circuit_map.jpg

 

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

 

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

 

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

 

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

 

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.

Nicely done.  These are changes that would make the track more interesting, increase the technical challenge, and provide opportunities for more racing (passing).  Now if we can just get them to mandate that 85% of the downforce be developed by the floor and single element front and rear wings, we'd have a winning formula!

Cheers-mk



#37 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 16,629 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 30 November 2017 - 02:59

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

 

yas_marina_circuit_map.jpg

 

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

 

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

 

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

 

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

 

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.

 

 

From a circuit design afficcionado, your idea is incredible.



#38 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 2,804 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:54

Few years ago there have been same topic. Funny enough, some examples are exact copy of those which were posted there.



#39 JeePee

JeePee
  • Member

  • 4,236 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 30 November 2017 - 07:49

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

 

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

 

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

 

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

 

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

 

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.

 

This is briliant dude. And the best part: it's super cheap. They only need to build the overpass and change some guardrails, but the whole circuit exists of 2 painted white lines on a gaint piece of tarmac so you get more than half of the changes done with an eraser and a marker.



Advertisement

#40 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 4,186 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:33

Wow! Brilliant idea :clap:  :clap:



#41 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 7,206 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:37

Tilke said that one thing with this track is that the turn before the straight shouldn't not be too slow, because when it is driver the front is always going to hit the throttle first. So i guess this the turn they'll be re-profiling. I guess they will ditch the chicane before the first straight and make a new, less tight hairpin, kidna sorta like this:

mm553a.jpg
 

 

 

The thing that always puzzled me the most about this track is the T12-13 chicane. It's the most awkwardly design piece of F1 track on the calendar and I have no idea why it is there. I also don't like how the track after it is made from two very similar sections.


Edited by wingwalker, 30 November 2017 - 10:34.


#42 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 13,226 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:14

Seem to remember the Populous folks, of most recent Silverstone iteration (non-)fame, published a while back what they would do with Yas Marina...

abudhabibypopulous.jpg

I can't work out what went though their minds about that section after T4 :confused:

 

I think Silverstone didn't improve with the new layout. It is just another endless lap. They should aim for 80 second laps, not 100 seconds. More laps means better for the audience and if there is a good overtake point, more chances for an overtake.



#43 Vettelari

Vettelari
  • Member

  • 1,564 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 30 November 2017 - 11:00

72° for a high and a low of 64 here. Drops to 55 for the afternoon rain which lasts 10-30 min. And then it goes back to 76.don't need A/C here on walking dead.

#44 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:22

Yas Marina is a terrible track. It cost Ferrari the 2010 WDC.  :down:

 

 ;)

uh-huh..

 

most people think the ferrari pit wall cost them the championship..

 

thanx for clearing that up!



#45 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:29

I’d say there’s more space than there is at Suzuka. The hill would be artificial of course.

it does look mostly good, but that overpass is going to be a tough sell, if not a no go altogether..

 

suzuka gets away with it because it was there before anyone gave a damn about safety.. grandfathered so to speak..

 

one thing is certain.. they can afford it to change it...



#46 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 29,861 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:37

it does look mostly good, but that overpass is going to be a tough sell, if not a no go altogether..

suzuka gets away with it because it was there before anyone gave a damn about safety.. grandfathered so to speak..

one thing is certain.. they can afford it to change it...

What safety issues would there be, either here or at Suzuka in real life? There are hundreds of circuits with bridges, both over and under. Even Abu Dhabi has that stupid underpass for a pit exit.

#47 NixxxoN

NixxxoN
  • Member

  • 4,116 posts
  • Joined: June 17

Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:42

Seem to remember the Populous folks, of most recent Silverstone iteration (non-)fame, published a while back what they would do with Yas Marina...

abudhabibypopulous.jpg

I can't work out what went though their minds about that section after T4 :confused:

 

Thats a really interesting modification the bit with the 1! Not sure about 2 though

 

I think Silverstone didn't improve with the new layout. It is just another endless lap. They should aim for 80 second laps, not 100 seconds. More laps means better for the audience and if there is a good overtake point, more chances for an overtake.

 

New siverstone section is brilliant for racing, I'd say it really improved the old one. Take out nostalgia glasses



#48 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 30 November 2017 - 13:37

What safety issues would there be, either here or at Suzuka in real life? There are hundreds of circuits with bridges, both over and under. Even Abu Dhabi has that stupid underpass for a pit exit.

that 1 in a million shot cars fall off the bridge, hurled into spectators or other cars..

 

yeah, I know it's a long shot, but...   ...

 

edit: plus the lower embankments are close enough to corners to have issues.. wrecks can happen anywhere, and bridge embankments are harder than trees..


Edited by kevinracefan, 30 November 2017 - 13:40.


#49 LBDN

LBDN
  • Member

  • 799 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 30 November 2017 - 14:06

I wonder if they ran the circuit in the opposite direction if it would make any difference

#50 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 29,861 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 November 2017 - 15:12

that 1 in a million shot cars fall off the bridge, hurled into spectators or other cars..

yeah, I know it's a long shot, but... ...

edit: plus the lower embankments are close enough to corners to have issues.. wrecks can happen anywhere, and bridge embankments are harder than trees..


I think that’s a massive reach to be honest. Cars jumping barriers are incredibly rare.