77 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

I don't know why but there are just a few "exotic" racing drivers.

In NASCAR black drivers have a very complicated history as NASCAR is super conservative.

 

But there were some black drivers and also other exotic drivers like Native Americans.

 

Willy T Ribbs for example.

Wendell Scott, Bill Lester

 

More?

[Geoff E]

http://forums.autosp...ers-in-the-usa/

[Risil]

Whatever word you want to use to describe Native Americans racing in America, it's probably the exact opposite of "exotic".

[Vitesse2]

In the thread Geoff linked, the book For Gold and Glory by Todd Gould is mentioned. The associated PBS documentary - never televised outside the USA AFAIK - is now available online here:

 

http://video.wfyi.or...deo/2306606929/

[RS2000]

Willy T had his first Grand National (then the premier series) test at Charlotte when I was living in the USA. Not entirely sure what happened but the clash set back the African American cause in NASCAR - but in those days anyone not completely doing the good ol' boys' bidding was inevitably going to.

[E1pix]

Benny Scott and Tommy Thompson raced in pro '70s Formula Super Vee in the States.

Benny Scott came really close to getting a pro F5000 drive for Vel's/Parnelli Jones alongside Mario, in 1976. Then Mario went to Lotus and the ride went to Al Unser in American Wheels colors. The Parnelli Team's sponsor Viceroy was also sponsoring Benny in Super Vee, and presumably once Mario left, so did the Viceroy money.

Tommy was sadly killed in maybe '77, in a Super Vee, in a Lola T326 I believe, at Trenton.

As a lifetime supporter of worthy but often disadvantaged drivers, the plights of "drivers of color" I've known or known of isn't good. There was a Native American driver in the '60s named David Whitehorse. He was killed in a Midget car at Hales Corners Speedway near Milwaukee in 1966, directly before my 71-month-old eyes.

Edited by E1pix, 02 December 2017 - 23:18.

[Bob Riebe]

American Indians, and most do not mind that term except those who play PC games, but have no great love for the term native Americans, they prefer First People, as they realize any one born here is native.

[E1pix]

Interesting, as out west it's just the opposite. And for what it's worth, we spend much time in their culture.

[Jim Thurman]

Benny Scott and Tommy Thompson raced in pro '70s Formula Super Vee in the States.

Benny Scott came really close to getting a pro F5000 drive for Vel's/Parnelli Jones alongside Mario, in 1976. Then Mario went to Lotus and the ride went to Al Unser in American Wheels colors. The Parnelli Team's sponsor Viceroy was also sponsoring Benny in Super Vee, and presumably once Mario left, so did the Viceroy money.

Tommy was sadly killed in maybe '77, in a Super Vee, in a Lola T326 I believe, at Trenton.

As a lifetime supporter of worthy but often disadvantaged drivers, the plights of "drivers of color" I've known or known of isn't good. There was a Native American driver in the '60s named David Whitehorse. He was killed in a Midget car at Hales Corners Speedway near Milwaukee in 1966, directly before my 71-month-old eyes.

 

Benny Scott did race in pro F5000, including the inaugural Long Beach Grand Prix, among a few other starts. The sponsorship wasn't connected to Vel's/Parnelli, despite being the same sponsor. It was for the BAR - Black American Racers -  team, who fielded Benny Scott, and also were the team Tommy Thompson drove for.

 

Tommy Thompson did sadly die. It was at Trenton, a year later, in 1978. IIRC, Benny Scott returned to Super Vee for BAR to finish the season after Tommy Thompson's death.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 03 December 2017 - 17:38.

[Jim Thurman]

In addition to the thread mentioned earlier, which features a great list of drivers compiled by Michael Ferner, there are also other African-American drivers in NASCAR:

 

Elias Bowie (first African-American driver known to make a start in NASCAR's top series, still often not credited)

Charlie Scott

Randy Bethea

George Wiltshire

 

Sadly, due to a general lack of knowledge, the other drivers I listed there also rarely receive mention.

 

And from open wheel oval ranks:

Rajo Jack

Mel Leighton

Joie Ray

Lincoln Bolt

Dick Hawkins

Leroy Nooks

Cheryl Glass

 

From road racing:

Bob West

 

There have been more African-American racers compete on the local short track or amateur (SCCA) road racing level. And, drag racing as well.

 

As far as Native Americans, well, Joie Chitwood wasn't, despite articles claiming otherwise.

[Henri Greuter]

Recently I've read the book "Ralph de Palma Gentleman Champion" by Gary Doyle.

 

I was shocked to se the second picture at the bottom of page 311.

I know that took place within that era.

 

It gives a clue as of why afro-american drivers didn't compete at top level motor racing back then.

I don't wanna think about Ralph's involvement with this picture and his feelings about it....

I really, really won't.....

Given his own background....

 

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 December 2017 - 08:39.

[PayasYouRace]

What is in the picture Henri, for those of us who don’t have the book?

[DCapps]

What is in the picture Henri, for those of us who don’t have the book?

 

The photo is also here: https://history.denv...g-brief-history

 

[E1pix]

Benny Scott did race in pro F5000, including the inaugural Long Beach Grand Prix, among other starts. He had a very good race at Laguna Seca. The sponsorship wasn't connected to Vel's/Parnelli, despite being the same sponsor. It was for the BAR - Black American Racers -  team, who fielded Benny Scott, and also were the team Tommy Thompson drove for.
 
Tommy Thompson did sadly die. It was at Trenton, a year later, in 1978. IIRC, Benny Scott returned to Super Vee for BAR to finish the season after Tommy Thompson's death.

Thanks for clarifying, Jim. I did realize V/PJ didn't field Benny's Super Vees, but should have mentioned BAR, and also recalled Long Beach. I was mostly referring to a season-long deal in F5000 that never materialized, and yes, Thompson's death was in 1978. Thanks again.

One sidebar is a reference in Sports Car had Fast Eddie Miller joining Redman in F5000 at Haas/Hall, but Eddie himself now tells me he doesn't recall that. It would have been wonderful to see those two Super Vee guys do that, though Eddie ran both a T300 and T330 in '73.

What I never knew was Benny's prior efforts in SCCA amateur Formula A!:
https://en.m.wikiped...iki/Benny_Scott

[E1pix]

Per the image Don posted, Holy Moly!!!!! :-(

[PCC]

Per the image Don posted, Holy Moly!!!!! :-(

It's shocking to realize that there was a time when the Klan was almost mainstream. It's even more shocking to realize that those days may be coming back.

[E1pix]

Couldn't agree more, Old Friend. :-(

[DCapps]

It's shocking to realize that there was a time when the Klan was almost mainstream. It's even more shocking to realize that those days may be coming back.

 

The Klan was not almost mainstream, it was mainstream nationally during the late 'Teens and well into the Twenties, and never quite went away in the Southeast and Southwest, while also lingering in the Midwest as well until the present day....

[Vitesse2]

The Klan was not almost mainstream, it was mainstream nationally during the late 'Teens and well into the Twenties, and never quite went away in the Southeast and Southwest, while also lingering in the Midwest as well until the present day....

Which I guess could be seen as a very vivid demonstration of the sometimes negative power of revisionism. By seeking to downplay the KKK's importance and influence, later writers have manipulated people into thinking that - like Mosley's Blackshirts - it was only a minor player. And now look ...

[Henri Greuter]

The photo is also here: https://history.denv...g-brief-history

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting Don.

Due to respecting copyrights I didn't want to post a scan of the book.

The more while it is such a touchy subject. It is so easy as non-American to make comments etc and I didn't want to do so. The more while, as a Dutchman, I know my own country has played a very dirty part in what happened in the USA in the years before 1865 ......

 

But regrettably it was a phenomena known within the USA with having multiple effects, also on the chances for afro-american drivers to make it big into motor racing.

 

Thanks again Don.

 

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 December 2017 - 16:17.

[Henri Greuter]

What is in the picture Henri, for those of us who don’t have the book?

 

 

I think that a well respected person as Don Capps answered the question in an appropriate manner.

By the way, PYR, I assume that you likely will understand my post above as of why I didn't want to reproduce the pic.

 

Henri

[PCC]

The Klan was not almost mainstream, it was mainstream nationally during the late 'Teens and well into the Twenties, and never quite went away in the Southeast and Southwest, while also lingering in the Midwest as well until the present day....

Thanks for that correction, depressing as it is...

[E1pix]

I know we're off-track a bit, but Thanks everyone, anyway.

[PCC]

It is so easy as non-American to make comments etc and I didn't want to do so.

True, and I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought it was solely an American problem, because that is emphatically not the case.

[E1pix]

Didn't read that there at all, Peter. :-)

[Jim Thurman]

Thanks for clarifying, Jim. I did realize V/PJ didn't field Benny's Super Vees, but should have mentioned BAR, and also recalled Long Beach. I was mostly referring to a season-long deal in F5000 that never materialized, and yes, Thompson's death was in 1978. Thanks again.

What I never knew was Benny's prior efforts in SCCA amateur Formula A!:
https://en.m.wikiped...iki/Benny_Scott

 

BAR is an interesting story in itself. 

 

Yep, sadly Benny Scott was one of those drivers who never managed to get a season-long deal. He had some very good races in FSV. In addition to racing in the SCCA, he raced a Volvo PV544 on So Cal ovals. I know he visited this forum, because he sent me a PM once. 

[PayasYouRace]

I think that a well respected person as Don Capps answered the question in an appropriate manner.
By the way, PYR, I assume that you likely will understand my post above as of why I didn't want to reproduce the pic.

Henri

Yeah that’s fine. A description would have been enough if you didn’t want to post it.

[E1pix]

BAR is an interesting story in itself. 
 
Yep, sadly Benny Scott was one of those drivers who never managed to get a season-long deal. He had some very good races in FSV. In addition to racing in the SCCA, he raced a Volvo PV544 on So Cal ovals. I know he visited this forum, because he sent me a PM once.

Benny looked great at Road America in '75; not quite the likes of Eddie, Bagley, Lazier, and Herm Johnson, but very good on what seemed a lesser budget.

I looked him up today, not realizing he had died in his early 60s. :-(

Edited by E1pix, 03 December 2017 - 17:54.

[Jim Thurman]

 

Elias Bowie (first African-American driver known to make a start in NASCAR's top series, still often not credited)

Charlie Scott

Randy Bethea

George Wiltshire

 

Sadly, due to a general lack of knowledge, the other drivers I listed there also rarely receive mention.

 

 

Expanding a bit on this, there are still plenty of articles that proclaim Wendell Scott the first African-American to race in NASCAR's top series, even though he was predated by both Charlie Scott and Elias Bowie. First full-time driver, yes. First, and only, race winner, yes also.

 

In wake of the announcement of Darrell Wallace Jr.'s full-time entry to NASCAR's top series in 2018, I just noticed major media outlets erring by listing only three African-American drivers in NASCAR history: Wendell Scott, Willy T. Ribbs and Bill Lester. The drivers I listed again received no credit or mention. I realize they are obscure, but one of them equalled the number of starts made by Lester.

[group7]

Some more here about Benny Scott, including a short video from the Speed Channel.

 

Also if you look on Pinterest, there are a number of images.

 

http://www.myf5000.c...enny_scott.html

 

 

Michael

[E1pix]

Fantastic Michael, Thank You!!!     

[Lee Nicolle]

James Garner, I believe he had Indian heritage. Sometime road racer and Off Roader as well.

[Jerry Entin]

 

Enus Wilson on the right, with Bill McLaughlin who owned the Iso A3C they would race at Sebring in 1964.

 

Surprisingly, nobody has brought up Enus "Sonny" Wilson so far, the Oklahoma Indian who raced two Birdcage Maseratis in the early 60s, one bought from Roger Penske, the other from Alan Connell. When I asked him where he got the money, he explained there were some oil wells in his backyard.

 

 

 

Photo: Willem Oosthoek Collection

 

Edited by Jerry Entin, 04 December 2017 - 01:03.

[Rob G]

The Mack brother alluded to in the linked thread was George Mack, who raced in the IRL in 2002. The year before, Cory Witherill became the first full-blooded Native American to race in the Indy 500.

[E1pix]

Good examples, Rob, totally forgot about Cory.

 

I thought his qualifying for Indy was epic! 

[DCapps]

Expanding a bit on this, there are still plenty of articles that proclaim Wendell Scott the first African-American to race in NASCAR's top series, even though he was predated by both Charlie Scott and Elias Bowie. First full-time driver, yes. First, and only, race winner, yes also.

 

In wake of the announcement of Darrell Wallace Jr.'s full-time entry to NASCAR's top series in 2018, I just noticed major media outlets erring by listing only three African-American drivers in NASCAR history: Wendell Scott, Willy T. Ribbs and Bill Lester. The drivers I listed again received no credit or mention. I realize they are obscure, but one of them equalled the number of starts made by Lester.

 

Thanks to a not very good job (rather lousy would be more accurate) of research, I was one of those who managed to overlook Elias Bowie and then had questions about Charlie Scott, yet another hard lesson in the perils of researching US stock car racing and NASCAR in particular. What Jim points out is another example of just how difficult it is to correctly revise what is generally accepted by the fans and by many or most in the recent auto racing press, not to mention the bulk of auto racing historians.

 

There is a very complicated and challenging (to put it mildly) story that still needs to be explored and researched regarding African Americans and both the automobile and motor sport in the USA. A great topic area for a dissertation....

 

Here is something that might be of interest appearing in the blog of a good friend of mine: https://automobilean...k-from-tom.html

 

Plus, here is something else that might be of interest for those familiar with a Michael Murphy song that was also covered by Hoyt Axton -- personally, I tend to lean towards the Axton version... : https://indiancountr...cer-locomobile/

[group7]

Great thread   for some very under appreciated drivers and others.

 

I remember back in December 2006 in the Richard Macon thread (page 3), Jerry Entin had posted a photo with a description, of I think E.D. Martin's Ferrari # 0730 being worked on by his mechanic, Jerry's description of the mechanic caused some consternation for another poster.

 

Sadly a Lot of the great images that Jerry posted have gone, including that one, I did save it for my files.

 

Michael

Edited by group7, 04 December 2017 - 04:51.

[E1pix]

Photobucket and other such sites have really hurt us.

 

I can't even recall the hosting site that removed mine, or maybe I don't want to.

[ensign14]

There was a chap in British F3 from Jamaica called Carlton Tingling.  He won the Class B title when that was worth a little something.  Disappointing that he never made it any further; you'd think there would be lots of positive advertising from sponsoring a black driver in an era when that would be unique - and when casual racism was falling away.

[E1pix]

You would think so!

I talked to a guy a few years back specifically promoting minority drivers. One would think the more unique, the better.

"Team Diversity" rings a bell...

[Michael Ferner]

The Mack brother alluded to in the linked thread was George Mack, who raced in the IRL in 2002. The year before, Cory Witherill became the first full-blooded Native American to race in the Indy 500.

Does that mean John Boling wasn't "full-blooded"? How do you tell?

[427MkIV]

Does Danny Ongais count as he's a native Hawaiian?

[Tom Glowacki]

Benny Scott and Tommy Thompson raced in pro '70s Formula Super Vee in the States.

Benny Scott came really close to getting a pro F5000 drive for Vel's/Parnelli Jones alongside Mario, in 1976. Then Mario went to Lotus and the ride went to Al Unser in American Wheels colors. The Parnelli Team's sponsor Viceroy was also sponsoring Benny in Super Vee, and presumably once Mario left, so did the Viceroy money.

Tommy was sadly killed in maybe '77, in a Super Vee, in a Lola T326 I believe, at Trenton.

As a lifetime supporter of worthy but often disadvantaged drivers, the plights of "drivers of color" I've known or known of isn't good. There was a Native American driver in the '60s named David Whitehorse. He was killed in a Midget car at Hales Corners Speedway near Milwaukee in 1966, directly before my 71-month-old eyes.

David Whitehorse was the brother of Harry Whitehorse.  Harry died last week in Madison, Wisconsin, aged 90.  He was a proud Ho-Chunk, and owned the junk yard that was the final resting place for my first car.  Besides his own racing activities, he was well-known in the Madison area for his customized ElCamino pick up truck, which he re-styled with a coffin nose Cord front end.  

 

http://host.madison....943408bd31.html

[E1pix]

Tom, you just absolutely blew my mind.

WOW! He outlived David by almost my entire life!

[Tom Glowacki]

Tom, you just absolutely blew my mind.

WOW! He outlived David by almost my entire life!

I wish I could find a picture of the El Camino, that would have really made your day.

 

I did a quick Google images search and found this on him:

Edited by Tom Glowacki, 04 December 2017 - 15:55.

[E1pix]

Unreal, was one of those David's?

[Tom Glowacki]

Unreal, was one of those David's?

I wouldn't know.  All I can is that I'm almost positive that the picture was taken in front of his body shop/salvage yard on the southeast side of Madison.

[E1pix]

I think David was killed in the black car, I'd ask my older brother but he can't remember last week.

[Jim Thurman]

Thanks to a not very good job (rather lousy would be more accurate) of research, I was one of those who managed to overlook Elias Bowie and then had questions about Charlie Scott, yet another hard lesson in the perils of researching US stock car racing and NASCAR in particular. What Jim points out is another example of just how difficult it is to correctly revise what is generally accepted by the fans and by many or most in the recent auto racing press, not to mention the bulk of auto racing historians.

 

I think one of the primary reasons Elias Bowie was overlooked was because it happened on the West Coast. There are many in the racing world that seem to know absolutely nothing of racing from the Mountain States westward. They know of some of the more famed tracks and events, but past that, little else. Often, the background and regional racing experience of the drivers seems a complete mystery to those East of the Mississippi, even with some remarkably well-known racers.

 

But, beyond the regionalism that is as sadly prevalent in portions of the motorsport press as it is in other media endeavors, I can see how this happened (and continues to happen). The "fans" generally accept what is put forth as fact. One assumes that a writer/author who comes across as knowledgeable is, in fact, correct with the information they present. However, as we've discussed ad infinitum, many assume the first person got it right and simply copy off that and repeat it. Most errors are simply handed down. And, yes, they are difficult to correct or revise.

 

I don't want this to be so long that folks eyes glaze over, but I'll try posting a more detailed look at the evolution of "The First Black/African-American Driver in NASCAR('s Top Series)."

Edited by Jim Thurman, 04 December 2017 - 22:20.

[MCS]

I don't know why but there are just a few "exotic" racing drivers.

In NASCAR black drivers have a very complicated history as NASCAR is super conservative.

 

But there were some black drivers and also other exotic drivers like Native Americans.

 

Willy T Ribbs for example.

Wendell Scott, Bill Lester

 

More?

 

I am fairly certain that we have covered this before, but Willy T. Ribbs did (most of) the Dunlop Star of Tomorrow FF1600 series in the UK in a Scorpion Racing Royale RP24 in 1977 and was a front runner.  An interview/profile even appeared in Motoring News (inside front cover) just ahead of the British GP at Silverstone and the visit to London of the legendary boxer, Muhammed Ali who was Willy T's hero.  Willy T. heard about Ali's visit and caught up with him during some of his training in Hyde Park and showed him the article in an attempt to get some help and sponsorship.  Sadly, he wasn't successful.

 

I remember - at some point - being delighted to see on a television in Florida one sunny afternoon that he had qualified for the Indy 500 and wondering if this was the start of something. But he never seemed to get the main chance and my last memory is an IMSA GTP race at Laguna Seca where he was a substitute driver for Gurney's AAR Toyota operation.  He looked beaten, which was very sad as the guy I met in the late seventies was seriously ready to go.

Edited by MCS, 04 December 2017 - 19:48.