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Kubica's future in motorsport [update: racing for Williams in 2019]


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#2651 tghik

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:55

You seem to be implying that there is some sort of rule that there should only be one Russian driver in F1.  Why shouldn't Russian sponsors only support one (or several) particular drivers, just like sponsors from elsewhere do? Do you think that Ericcson's sponsors would pull out if Rosenqvist got a F1 seat because they only need to have one Swede in F1? 

I never said there is a rule. There is only what was reported last december. SMP's owner who is a close friend of the 'top' was asked by that same "top" to do what is necessary to have a Russian driver in F1 as there was none to go with Sochi. The occasion had arisen with Williams and they went for it pretty aggressively and quickly offered Williamd something they could not refuse. Kubica himself said the day before the driver was announced he was 99.9% sure he was to be. The Russians achieved their goal.

 

They are not stupid, to pay so much for a mediocre driver when they have other candidates like Markelov? it's pretty obvious they will look to get better return for their money. Second, if there is 1 or 2 other Russians already in F1 (could be Mazepin and Kvyat), is there a need anymore to pay at all ? The incentive loses its strength (and money offer) with every Russian already in.

Someone for some reason would want to have fun in world of F1 and buys a team. Unless the "top" decides to be more involved and have a full team with 2 Russian drivers, Sirotkin may be on the way out soon. Anyways there's only 1 way is to see Williams follow Force India and declare bankruptcy.

 

Tbh I'm surprised how sure Sirotkin is about staying in F1...he may get lucky and get another season, but that could be it



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#2652 midgrid

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:06

You seem to be implying that there is some sort of rule that there should only be one Russian driver in F1.  Why shouldn't Russian sponsors only support one (or several) particular drivers, just like sponsors from elsewhere do? Do you think that Ericcson's sponsors would pull out if Rosenqvist got a F1 seat because they only need to have one Swede in F1? 

 

I've been waiting for Hamilton's retirement announcement ever since Norris was signed, to be honest.



#2653 Starchild

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:10

Also to pay 20 mil euro is a lot for a driver of Sirotkin's skills. Maybe SMP will look to replace Sirotkin with another Russian, let's say Markelov

Why would they do that when Sirotkin is clearly better driver than Markelov.

Yes, Markelov is pretty exciting to watch, he is good racer, but that's all. Just compare Sirotkin first year in GP2 and Markelov's... Sirotkin was immediately impressive and finished 3rd in his rookie year while Markelov finished 24th. It took a huge 4 seasons for Markelov to even match results Sirotkin was showing in his rookie year! Also Sirotkin already has one year of experiance in F1 and he is also one year younger than Markelov. And he's also doing pretty good in his rookie year, matching more experienced Stroll. He is 7:6 up in quali and it's 5:4 for Stroll in races where both finished. They are as evenly matched as they can be.

It doesn't meke any sense to replace him with Markelov...



#2654 jals99

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:33

Why would they do that when Sirotkin is clearly better driver than Markelov.

Yes, Markelov is pretty exciting to watch, he is good racer, but that's all. Just compare Sirotkin first year in GP2 and Markelov's... Sirotkin was immediately impressive and finished 3rd in his rookie year while Markelov finished 24th. It took a huge 4 seasons for Markelov to even match results Sirotkin was showing in his rookie year! Also Sirotkin already has one year of experiance in F1 and he is also one year younger than Markelov. And he's also doing pretty good in his rookie year, matching more experienced Stroll. He is 7:6 up in quali and it's 5:4 for Stroll in races where both finished. They are as evenly matched as they can be.

It doesn't meke any sense to replace him with Markelov...

Markelovs father is very rich, and he will pay a lot more than SMP. And he is father, not just sponsor as SMP

I think he will easily pay 30 millions, while SMP pays 12-15 millions. I just hope Sergey will be retained as Artems teammate



#2655 HistoryFan

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:41

who is Markelov's father?



#2656 F1matt

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:43

Markelov's father must be very rich, there is no way he could have stayed in GP2/F2 for this long without an unlimited budget, the guy is woeful, not oven WEC standard. 



#2657 jals99

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:52

Markelov's father must be very rich, there is no way he could have stayed in GP2/F2 for this long without an unlimited budget, the guy is woeful, not oven WEC standard. 

He is owner Russian Time team for his son



#2658 HistoryFan

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 13:53

if you have 30 millions you can stay that long in F2 but perhaps can not go to F1.



#2659 jals99

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 14:19

if you have 30 millions you can stay that long in F2 but perhaps can not go to F1.

He was waiting for superlicence, and this year was preparing for F1 as Renault test pilot



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#2660 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 14:29

He was waiting for superlicence, and this year was preparing for F1 as Renault test pilot

He's following on Sirotkin's footsteps, stay one year as Renault's junior driver and then move to F1 in the year after, with significant financial backing.


Edited by PedroDiCasttro, 05 September 2018 - 14:29.


#2661 F1matt

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 15:20

In theory if Markelov does get into F1, and Stroll, Sirotkin, and Ericsson stick around almost a quarter of the grid is made up of pay drivers while drivers like Kubica, Van Doorne, and possibly Ocon drop out of the sport. I cant think of another sport where talent is overlooked for money, if I was Frank Williams I would rather shut up shop than become a service provider in a playground for rich kids. 



#2662 MustangSally

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 18:33

They're all rich kids. But it has reached a new level with Dads buying whole teams instead of just a seat. 



#2663 Nathan

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 18:47

Well it means motor sports is coming full circle.

 

 

Related to Robert, does anyone think he would turn a Williams seat down for the remainder of 2018?  I get the impression he see's it as a career torpedo.



#2664 A3

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 18:50

This is part of a translated interview I found on reddit:

 

 


Jacques Villeneuve said that these days in Formula 1 instead of choosing the best drivers you choose out of these who bring the most money...
Back in the day, the main point was "how much?". But not how much the driver brings into the team, like it is now, but how much he wants for his work. Now it's different, I guess that's just the way it is in Formula 1. I'm more used to a different paddock. I guess priorities have changed...

 

So going from that I don't see Kubica having a comeback anytime soon.

 

Honestly, in my opinion it seems that Robert thinks he's better than the teams think he is. Which is normal for a competitive racing driver I guess.

 

But for me, I don't think he'll be really competitive again with his handicap. That's why I don't understand the desire to have him back.


Edited by A3, 05 September 2018 - 18:52.


#2665 tghik

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 19:29


Honestly, in my opinion it seems that Robert thinks he's better than the teams think he is. Which is normal for a competitive racing driver I guess.

 

But for me, I don't think he'll be really competitive again with his handicap. That's why I don't understand the desire to have him back.

 

It depends what you mean by "really competitive", it could mean different things to different people. Would Ocon's level be enough ?


Edited by tghik, 05 September 2018 - 19:32.


#2666 MustangSally

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 19:33

.

 

 

Related to Robert, does anyone think he would turn a Williams seat down for the remainder of 2018?  I get the impression he see's it as a career torpedo.

 

He would take it tomorrow. But the whole situation has changed dramatically since Stroll's early release was mooted.

 

The seat at FI was going to be empty, with Ocon off to Renault or McLaren. Now Ocon has nowhere to go. Presumably, he only has a race by race contract with FI . . . all contracts with the old Force India were annulled by administration. His current situation is very unclear. But one would image FI would prefer him to carry on scoring points in 2018 while everything else unravels.



#2667 A3

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 19:34

It depends what you mean by "really competitive", it could mean different things to different people

 

People apparently would love to see a comeback with Williams. Well, the car is a shitbox so I don't understand how that would turn out positive for any driver. :D

 

Ocon vs Kubica? I'd put my money on Ocon.



#2668 DrProzac

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 19:41

Some may find this interesting: in a recent Q&A Kubica implied that he was 99,9% sure he will be driving for Williams before they've signed Sirotkin.

 

 

Zresztą w ubiegłym roku mieliśmy tego przykład. Nawet rzeczy, które są pewne na 99.9% nie są pewne na sto procent!

https://www.facebook...873380699417520



#2669 tghik

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 20:06

 

Ocon vs Kubica? I'd put my money on Ocon.

Hehe I think RK would be on top

Let's make a friendly bet and let's not make it about money, if it ever happens they end up in the same team, counting points from the middle of the season (Kubica needs to get back up to speed) at the end of that season the losing person will write in bold letters "I don't know how to evaluate drivers !"  ;)



#2670 A3

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 20:24

Hehe I think RK would be on top

Let's make a friendly bet and let's not make it about money, if it ever happens they end up in the same team, counting points from the middle of the season (Kubica needs to get back up to speed) at the end of that season the losing person will write in bold letters "I don't know how to evaluate drivers !"  ;)

 

I'm in.:up:

 

I don't question Robert's speed, but racing is more than driving laps. I think his handicap will hinder him and that is the reason he hasn't got a seat yet.



#2671 MustangSally

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 20:31

I'm in. :up:

 

I don't question Robert's speed, but racing is more than driving laps. I think his handicap will hinder him and that is the reason he hasn't got a seat yet.

 

I'm not sure I agree, but who knows. His biggest handicap is the lack of seat time.



#2672 tghik

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 20:55

I'm in. :up:

 

I don't question Robert's speed, but racing is more than driving laps. I think his handicap will hinder him and that is the reason he hasn't got a seat yet.

done lol

RK was very consistent before accident, with rare mistakes. Who knows what it would now but If he was able to drive in WRC, he'll be fine. So I shall win ;) hopefully ... and hopefully they don't disappear from F1



#2673 A3

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 21:11

I'm not sure I agree, but who knows. His biggest handicap is the lack of seat time.

 

From the footage I've seen so far it looks like he can't really grip the wheel tightly with his right hand. I'm not sure how that's going to work out for him over a race distance. Is he able to catch the back end stepping out quickly enough? Soo many questions.

 

If he's going to drive next year I'm sure he'll do fine with testing milage.



#2674 OvDrone

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 21:45

who is Markelov's father?

 

 

Darth Vader apparently.



#2675 Dolph

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 00:18

Well it means motor sports is coming full circle.

 

 

Related to Robert, does anyone think he would turn a Williams seat down for the remainder of 2018?  I get the impression he see's it as a career torpedo.

 

If he beats Sirotkin at races he will be seen in a good light.



#2676 wonk123

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:06

I'm in. :up:

 

I don't question Robert's speed, but racing is more than driving laps. I think his handicap will hinder him and that is the reason he hasn't got a seat yet.

 

That sounds quite narrow minded. The team has made modifications for him. As someone else says, lack of seat time and maybe age will be the biggest hinderance. If he still has the talent, his arm will not be a problem.



#2677 Requiem84

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:42

That sounds quite narrow minded. The team has made modifications for him. As someone else says, lack of seat time and maybe age will be the biggest hinderance. If he still has the talent, his arm will not be a problem.


Let’s say RK would not have his arm issues now, do you think he would already have a seat or not?

#2678 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 07:03

who is Markelov's father?

 

I believe he's known by that name "Mr Markelov", but I may be wrong.  :stoned:

 

I think it it's a valid point that SMP may lose motivation for supporting Sirotkin in F1 if there was another Russian making waves. But then Williams did choose Sirotkin over Kvyat.



#2679 MustangSally

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:25

From the footage I've seen so far it looks like he can't really grip the wheel tightly with his right hand. I'm not sure how that's going to work out for him over a race distance. Is he able to catch the back end stepping out quickly enough? Soo many questions.

 

 

 

Paddy Lowe has stated categorically that the issues do not present any limitation. If it wasn't for Sirotkin pitching up with 15m at the 11th hour, he would have been driving this season. Sure, it's still hard for some to believe, I understand that.



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#2680 Murdoch

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:45

Paddy Lowe has stated categorically that the issues do not present any limitation. If it wasn't for Sirotkin pitching up with 15m at the 11th hour, he would have been driving this season. Sure, it's still hard for some to believe, I understand that.

 

So why aren't there any offers from any other teams? 

 

Either for this year or next year?



#2681 MustangSally

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:10

So why aren't there any offers from any other teams? 

 

Either for this year or next year?

 

I've already answered that question. Lack of seat time. He's an unknown quantity. I've already said, he will probably go to FI with the Strolls, in a similar kind of role as he has at Williams.



#2682 thegamer23

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:14

Can't see Kubica racing in F1 in 2019 either, at this point.

He should focus in getting a seat in Formula E for next season, maybe with BMW given their debut.

Or DTM. 


Edited by thegamer23, 06 September 2018 - 09:14.


#2683 thuGG

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:35

So why aren't there any offers from any other teams? 

 

Either for this year or next year?

 

How do you you know there are no offers?

Do teams publish such offers somewhere?

How do you know about internal matters like that?



#2684 GhostR

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:47

So why aren't there any offers from any other teams? 

 

Either for this year or next year?

 

Why? Mostly because those other teams have either already filled their seats, or have driver selection criteria that means Kubica doesn't make their short list. 

 

I honestly don't get this common attitude I keep seeing that "the teams aren't interested, therefore the driver can't be good enough / capable enough". Seriously ... folks need to learn that teams use a range of different criteria for selecting a driver, and each team has it's own unique criteria. For example:

 

Red Bull has, somewhere near the top of their list: Is the driver Red Bull affiliated?

Sauber has two lists: the "Ferrari Junior" list and the "Our driver" list.

Williams (currently), somewhere near the top: How much sponsorship money do they bring?

 

There's only a very small number of teams who have "Is the driver the best driver available?" at the top of their list with no other criteria present. Even Mercedes, in their selection of Bottas, is not looking purely at driver performance - there's other factors at play there.


Edited by GhostR, 06 September 2018 - 09:54.


#2685 Murdoch

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:41

I've already answered that question. Lack of seat time. He's an unknown quantity. I've already said, he will probably go to FI with the Strolls, in a similar kind of role as he has at Williams.

 

Rubbish. He's had testing millage within the last 12months, a pre-season test next year will be more than adequate if he is as good as some believe. He should be able to jump in straight away and be close to the pace (assuming the controls are set up correctly). Not really a risk if there aren't any risk (IYSWIM), but I sense teams do see a risk or they simply think he is no longer fast/competent enough.



#2686 Murdoch

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:45

Why? Mostly because those other teams have either already filled their seats, or have driver selection criteria that means Kubica doesn't make their short list. 

 

I honestly don't get this common attitude I keep seeing that "the teams aren't interested, therefore the driver can't be good enough / capable enough". Seriously ... folks need to learn that teams use a range of different criteria for selecting a driver, and each team has it's own unique criteria. For example:

 

 

If 'IF' he was the RK of old, i'm sure as an unaffiliated driver he would get a spot in many teams (Ferrari for one). However, he it doesn't appear to be on anyone's radar, happy to be proved wrong. 



#2687 Albaforever

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:47

Why? Mostly because those other teams have either already filled their seats, or have driver selection criteria that means Kubica doesn't make their short list. 

 

I honestly don't get this common attitude I keep seeing that "the teams aren't interested, therefore the driver can't be good enough / capable enough". Seriously ... folks need to learn that teams use a range of different criteria for selecting a driver, and each team has it's own unique criteria. For example:

 

Red Bull has, somewhere near the top of their list: Is the driver Red Bull affiliated?

Sauber has two lists: the "Ferrari Junior" list and the "Our driver" list.

Williams (currently), somewhere near the top: How much sponsorship money do they bring?

 

There's only a very small number of teams who have "Is the driver the best driver available?" at the top of their list with no other criteria present. Even Mercedes, in their selection of Bottas, is not looking purely at driver performance - there's other factors at play there.

 

In fairness to Bottas at the time a lot of teams were looking to sign him and in someway's I think Williams suffered big time losing Bottas to Mercedes, my view.  

 

As for Kubica I think he will end up at Racing Point (F.I) as their Reserve driver for next season?    



#2688 tghik

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:11

but I sense teams do see a risk or they simply think he is no longer fast/competent enough.

 

How can you prove it I'm curious ?



#2689 Juanto

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 13:05

How can you prove it I'm curious ?

 

You also cant prove he is competent enough to race, as we havent seen it . So for now its a matter of opinion for both sides.



#2690 MaxScelerate

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 14:25

They're all rich kids. But it has reached a new level with Dads buying whole teams instead of just a seat. 

Stroll had one of the largest Ferrari collection. He bought the (ex F1 course) Circuit Mont-Tremblant 15 years ago and spent millions bringing it to "FIA standards" (whatever that means). 

 

He bought it as a toy for himself. The seat for junior is just gravy.



#2691 empe

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 14:49

this thread is more and more like:

 

X87ww3a.jpg

 

 

(as an ordained Dudeist priest, I shouldn't complain)



#2692 tghik

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 15:58

You also cant prove he is competent enough to race, as we havent seen it . So for now its a matter of opinion for both sides.

Exxactly, I never did say I have proof, but my point is there are so many guys claiming RK has no contract so he is slow. It's like Alonso is midfield driver because there is no interest from Ferrari or Merc or Ocon is slow coz he's without seat for next season.



#2693 MaGiK

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 17:32

So far Robert showed that he still has the speed to do the job.
In Barcelona and Hungaroring tests he did better laptimes than both Williams drivers during racing weekends.
Is he as fast as he used to be? Surely not. But he isnt slow either.
And the fact that they kept Lance and ditched Felipe shows that their driver choice isnt really about the speed.

#2694 MadYarpen

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 18:17

Pure speculation I guess? Doesn't look like anything more and that he has any source for this article...

 

https://translate.go...ams/&edit-text=



#2695 Kev00

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 19:49

Can't see Kubica racing in F1 in 2019 either, at this point.
He should focus in getting a seat in Formula E for next season, maybe with BMW given their debut.

Or DTM.


I’ve never understood why he has never given DTM a go. Manufacturers have wanted him in the past. It’s a series which I believe he would do well in with his F1 and rallying experience and it has proven a stepping stone into F1 with other drivers.

#2696 F1matt

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:08

I have long suggested on this thread that he should have asked the FIA to bend the rules and compete in F2, he could keep his position as Williams test driver and everyone involved in F1 could have watched him race to see if he still has it, for what its worth I think he would have walked the championship. Kubica was a supremely talented driver and F1 fans and Robert himself were both robbed during the rally crash in Italy.

 

Kubica has been on a long journey to recovery and while I accept nobody is entitled to a drive in F1 he has took his opportunities and never let anyone team down who has given him a test, so why shouldn't he be on any teams radar? I am not and never have been a "fan boy", I just appreciate a very talented racing driver who isn't ready to give up on his fight to get back into F1, there are some people who go over the top and keep the RK flag flying on this thread but they just want to see him back in F1 as well, he is a racer and far to good to be doing the DTM.

 

If F1 does close its door on him I hope he can drive an Indycar and race Alonso, now that would be a story!



#2697 Muppetmad

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:23

If F1 does close its door on him I hope he can drive an Indycar and race Alonso, now that would be a story!

I would also love to see this - the Ferrari team lineup that was meant to be in 2012 finally coming stateside in 2019  :up:



#2698 danmills

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:44

Would it be plausible to think Stroll Snr will plan to use two no.2 drivers over the season? That way the team gets points as a constructor; but if, say, they field Kubica for the second half, and he does well, it might not shadow any performance of his son on paper? Damage limitation to so speak.



#2699 empe

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:17

Hypothetical question - would it be possible for RK to drive the current Indycar no power steering car, given his limitations? Has he himself ever mentioned it i.e. in an interview?  



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#2700 Muppetmad

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:38

Hypothetical question - would it be possible for RK to drive the current Indycar no power steering car, given his limitations? Has he himself ever mentioned it i.e. in an interview?  

It's a question often posed here, but we simply don't know. To my knowledge, he has never mentioned it.