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2018 Rallying thread (WRC, World RX, ERC, etc)


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#801 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:38

yeah, I think Hyundai messed up with drivers choice.

 

They didn't know who of them should be the leading driver, and it seems  their decisions weren't correct. Which possibly cost them the manufacturer's title.

 

I understand Mikkelsen stays (and IMO he didn't show anything special), while Paddon is out. I'm afraid this is another bad decision.

 

 

I really hoped Loeb would go to MSport. Now it's a shame Paddon isn't going there. But MSport has bigger issues probably. Sunninen is testing for Monte. Nobody else from what I've seen. Fingers crossed they'll be there for the whole season. Although I'm afraid Fiest will be even further back this time.


Edited by MadYarpen, 14 December 2018 - 10:39.


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#802 messy

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:43

Paddon, on the strength of 2018, should EASILY be the second full time driver for that team alongside Neuville. Mikkelsen was pathetic, frankly. 



#803 noikeee

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 12:20

Paddon, on the strength of 2018, should EASILY be the second full time driver for that team alongside Neuville. Mikkelsen was pathetic, frankly. 

Yeah, which is quite strange given he was starting to look pretty handy at the end of his VW stint.



#804 sopa

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 12:35

While Mikkelsen was out of sorts in 2018, Paddon looked out of sorts in 2017. Then again I remember in 2016 Neuville was out of sorts, when Paddon starred.

 

Maybe Hyundai has some peculiar handling characteristics that only few drivers can manage, and even then it's not sure who. Mikkelsen was definitely a more competitive driver in VW days. That's why Hyundai is messing around with drivers and ultimately they just don't know, who can actually do the job in that car, apart from Neuville. Going for Loeb probably is a safe bet for them that at least the legend should adapt to it...

 

What a shame. When the new regulations started in 2017 and VW had pulled out, Hyundai with their line-up looked like a strong team, who should at least win the manufacturers championship, even if not drivers one. But now they haven't won in the last 2 years, while both M-Sport Ford and Toyota have. Hyundai has looked competitive, but there is something wrong either in the team or with the car, so that a competitive list of drivers can't deliver the results.



#805 Reiksss

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 12:46

Imo, Hyundai favours Neuville's driving style. That is why Mikkelsen kept saying during last year that he basically has to relearn driving. Hence, no results. He was competitive with Citröen in Germany, so the blame is not on his shoulders completely. However, I feel sorry for Paddon and I just could not understand, how did Hyundai not find a relevant suitable option for him. A pity.

#806 messy

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 13:10

While Mikkelsen was out of sorts in 2018, Paddon looked out of sorts in 2017. Then again I remember in 2016 Neuville was out of sorts, when Paddon starred.

 

Maybe Hyundai has some peculiar handling characteristics that only few drivers can manage, and even then it's not sure who. Mikkelsen was definitely a more competitive driver in VW days. That's why Hyundai is messing around with drivers and ultimately they just don't know, who can actually do the job in that car, apart from Neuville. Going for Loeb probably is a safe bet for them that at least the legend should adapt to it...

 

What a shame. When the new regulations started in 2017 and VW had pulled out, Hyundai with their line-up looked like a strong team, who should at least win the manufacturers championship, even if not drivers one. But now they haven't won in the last 2 years, while both M-Sport Ford and Toyota have. Hyundai has looked competitive, but there is something wrong either in the team or with the car, so that a competitive list of drivers can't deliver the results.

 

Someone's always 'out of sorts' at Hyundai. I don't get the feeling they're particularly nurturing or forgiving of their driver's mistakes....easy to forget that they messed Neuville around in 2016 too, dropping him to their 'II' team so he wasn't registered for manufacturer points.....always seems to be that one driver is flying and happy with everything, then the rest are all struggling round and down in the dumps. Well, except Sordo who just reliably keeps doing his 7.5/10 thing every time regardless of how many times he's dropped....

 

Malcolm Wilson should be jumping at Paddon right about now IMO. He's one of the very few who are up to scatch at the sharp end. 



#807 Silberpfeil

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 14:09

https://twitter.com/...0718364672?s=21

No PSRX in World Rallycross in 2019.

If you want to know how to run a booming series into the ground in two years, look no further than WorldRX…

EDIT: The press release cites the waning number of competitors as the reason for PSRX‘s exit. However, they and VW (via Sven Smeets) still "believe" in WorldRX (whatever that means), and will keep an eye on the electrification efforts.

Interestingly, Smeets also explicitly mentions "huge uncertainty regarding the entries and the competition for next season."

The full release can be found here: https://mailchi.mp/p...57?e=7daa250cff

At this point, I‘d be surprised if we see a competitive field at all. If IMG is extremely lucky, they’ll have, off the top of my head, the Fabias, maybe the Hansen-run Peugeots, maybe the Hyundais, STARD with their ancient Fiesta, maybe Prodrive (I don’t think anything has been conformed there?) and Münnich as well as other assorted privatiers like Bennett and perhaps SLR, and that‘s only the at least somewhat competitive ones.

That‘s not in any way enough to stage a competitive World Championship, never mind one that attracts enough viewers to be sustainable.

Edited by Silberpfeil, 14 December 2018 - 14:36.


#808 Myrvold

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 17:15

At this point, I‘d be surprised if we see a competitive field at all. If IMG is extremely lucky, they’ll have, off the top of my head, the Fabias, maybe the Hansen-run Peugeots, maybe the Hyundais, STARD with their ancient Fiesta, maybe Prodrive (I don’t think anything has been conformed there?) and Münnich as well as other assorted privatiers like Bennett and perhaps SLR, and that‘s only the at least somewhat competitive ones.

That‘s not in any way enough to stage a competitive World Championship, never mind one that attracts enough viewers to be sustainable.

 

GCK, GRX (hopefully with three cars), Münnich, 1-2 Fabias, possibly 2x Hansen(There were some positive vibes after the China meeting), possibly SLR with 1 or 2 cars, and then the assorted privateers. It's not huge, but not that much fewer than 2018. I can see the non-European rounds struggle with entries.

However, this opens up for teams like OMSE to get back in to it, I know they've said they've pulled out for 2019, and I think thats the likely outcome, the whole "our budget is way to small to compete with factory teams" are now gone. They would, together with GCK and GRX be the top teams.

Also, I do hope some of the teams that have pulled out, actually sells their cars. I see no reason to keep all Audi, VW's and Peugeots locked down.

 

Lastly, seeing all manufacturers pull out, might be a good thing for privateer entries. IMG should get desperate, and "dump" entry prices, and we'll have a chance to get closer to the first couple of WRX seasons with many drivers, no real factory teams. Like RX should be.
However, IMG really needs to be properly on it, and I have my doubts about that.



#809 Silberpfeil

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 17:54

GCK, GRX (hopefully with three cars), Münnich, 1-2 Fabias, possibly 2x Hansen(There were some positive vibes after the China meeting), possibly SLR with 1 or 2 cars, and then the assorted privateers. It's not huge, but not that much fewer than 2018. I can see the non-European rounds struggle with entries.
However, this opens up for teams like OMSE to get back in to it, I know they've said they've pulled out for 2019, and I think thats the likely outcome, the whole "our budget is way to small to compete with factory teams" are now gone. They would, together with GCK and GRX be the top teams.
Also, I do hope some of the teams that have pulled out, actually sells their cars. I see no reason to keep all Audi, VW's and Peugeots locked down.
 
Lastly, seeing all manufacturers pull out, might be a good thing for privateer entries. IMG should get desperate, and "dump" entry prices, and we'll have a chance to get closer to the first couple of WRX seasons with many drivers, no real factory teams. Like RX should be.
However, IMG really needs to be properly on it, and I have my doubts about that.


Mainly, I just hope that we won’t lose any more cars. I think we had 15 entries for COTA this year? I hope for at least 16 permanent entries, because it would look terrible if there weren‘t even as many cars as there are points positions. (Then again, Bennett and Demoustier apparently managed to score negative points this year (engine penalties?), so what do I know.

It‘s true that WRX just got massively more attractive for privateers, but this late in the year, I don‘t think many brand-new programmes could be set up. Maybe the Solbergs can field Oliver‘s DS3? ;) That being said, the EKS Audis appear to be openly for sale, if I remember their press release correctly. I‘d struggle to see anyone running the VWs, though, especially if they‘re thinking about coming back in some capacity. I‘d like for OMSE to come back. The car was an absolute dud, especially compared to the other new cars, but looked fabulous and might profit from a bit of extra development.

It‘s also true that IMG haven‘t exactly looked in control for the last couple of months, watching as team after team pulled out. I hope they can get their act together, but I‘m struggling to find positives in their recent performance that I could pin said hopes on.

Lastly, one argument I‘ve come across quite a bit recently in the proverbial trenches that are Facebook and Twitter comment sections these days is that this is all the fault of the electric switch. Personally, I suspect that if eWRX had become a thing for 2020, we‘d still have Peugeot, PSRX, and perhaps EKS & even the Hoonigan Fords on the entry lists for 2019, and we could give the old cars the send-off they deserve on the big stage next year. As it is, the constant maneuvring and delays, while temporarily placating the fans, might have actually cost IMG and WRX as a whole dearly.

#810 ClubmanGT

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 03:16

Changes at the top for Hyundai just days out from the season kicking off. 

 

I suspect Mikkelsen's days are numbered... too bad it's too late for Paddon.



#811 messy

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:17

It's such a shame that M-Sport and Paddon didn't come together after the Hyundai split. I like Elfyn Evans as much as the next guy but I don't feel he's much of a team leader with Ogier gone. Paddon and Craig Breen both out of the WRC this year? With such a limited number of top line drivers around that's not good.

#812 Lennat

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:08

Imo, Hyundai favours Neuville's driving style. That is why Mikkelsen kept saying during last year that he basically has to relearn driving. Hence, no results. 

 

That is probably true, but I also feel that, taking their whole careers into account, there are few indications Mikkelsen is as good as Neuville regardless.



#813 Myrvold

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 16:01

I suspect Mikkelsen's days are numbered... too bad it's too late for Paddon.


How,from what I hear from NZ-sources, Mikkelsen lawyered up the moment Loeb arrived, as he suddenly were looking at a part-time season himself.
His contract was seemingly written well enough to avoid that, and that wont change no matter who runs the team.

#814 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:08

On a side note - I think everyone should get a turn at sweeping the road, it shouldn’t be about who is leading the championship. It’s a silly rule that just makes some of the results fake. Why should you be punished just for doing well at driving? It’s a totally over the top rule!

Apart from that I’m totally hyped for this season, can’t wait to see the cars!

Edited by Danyy, 04 January 2019 - 06:15.


#815 Muppetmad

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:23

There are times when being first on the road is advantageous and times when it's disadvantageous. There isn't a system that can fairly account for this, and I'm not convinced it's as unfair as Ogier has claimed (many, many times).



#816 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:37

Disagree, you talk like it’s an even split. 9 times out of 10 being first is a disadvantage hence why this rule is here in the first place. How about picking names out of a hat?

#817 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 15:54

Disagree, you talk like it’s an even split. 9 times out of 10 being first is a disadvantage hence why this rule is here in the first place. How about picking names out of a hat?


9 out of 10?
Tarmac events, it's an advantage being first.
Monte Carlo can be completely random anyway
Sweden, only a disadvantage with fresh snow.
It's on dry gravel you have the disadvantage. There are no way of making it completely equal through the whole season.

#818 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 18:14

9 out of 10?
Tarmac events, it's an advantage being first.
Monte Carlo can be completely random anyway
Sweden, only a disadvantage with fresh snow.
It's on dry gravel you have the disadvantage. There are no way of making it completely equal through the whole season.


How many pure tarmac events do you think they are compared to gravel and snow?
If there’s no way in making it completely equal which is not what I asked for anyway then just make it random like I already suggested then? Unless you actually believe it’s fairer making it always the one who is leading the championship

#819 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 18:46

How many pure tarmac events do you think they are compared to gravel and snow?
If there’s no way in making it completely equal which is not what I asked for anyway then just make it random like I already suggested then? Unless you actually believe it’s fairer making it always the one who is leading the championship


Over 25% of the events are events where there are a bigger chance of having an advantage running first, don't see any issue with that.
I do, I have absolutely zero issues with the championship leader running first on the first day. The way WRC is today, with the complete lack of privateers (which is a big issue imo), there wouldn't be much of a problem using shakedown as a qualification stage either, letting the fastest getting first choice in running order. However, this is a further negative for privateers who often needs the shakedown quite badly in terms of setup adjustments. I would like a system that doesn't cause drivers to drive slowly on purpose to "play the system, and I would like a system that isn't random.

I think the present day system works fine, the only change could be the shakedown-qual. 



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#820 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 19:52

You can’t have your cake and eat it, either have drivers trying not to win everything outright or a system that means you can still go for the win regardless. I can live with the current system but I think it defeats the sole purpose of a driver wanting to be the best by wanting to win everything if in the back of their minds it’s not the best way but fair enough if you like it :)

Edited by Danyy, 04 January 2019 - 19:54.


#821 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 20:24

Don't see how having it like today would apply to "can't have your cake and eat it (too)".

There is not a single way of making things equal in rally, there will always be differences, and it will always be an advantage of road position, no matter if that is first or last on the road.

Having it after the championship standings for day 1, is a quite logic way to do it, and without a doubt more fair than a random drawing.



#822 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 21:44

Don't see how having it like today would apply to "can't have your cake and eat it (too)".
There is not a single way of making things equal in rally, there will always be differences, and it will always be an advantage of road position, no matter if that is first or last on the road.
Having it after the championship standings for day 1, is a quite logic way to do it, and without a doubt more fair than a random drawing.

You shouldn’t be fighting making it random so hard if their isn’t much in it. If you are correct making it random, will have no effect.

Edited by Danyy, 04 January 2019 - 21:51.


#823 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 22:08

You shouldn’t be fighting making it random so hard if their isn’t much in it. If you are correct making it random, will have no effect.

The difference is, with a set order like today, you know it. You know that by doing good in the first two rallies, enduring a more challenging Mexico due to running first, you'll have an advantage come France. Later in the season, go through a hard time in Sardinia, to a more neutral Finland and you have a great time in Germany.

Do a random draw, and you might find yourself running 12th on all tarmac event, and 1st in Mexico, Chile, Argentina and Sardinia which is some of the worst rallies to run first in.

 

Though - "if there isn't much in it" are not my words...



#824 Danyy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 22:19

The difference is, with a set order like today, you know it. You know that by doing good in the first two rallies, enduring a more challenging Mexico due to running first, you'll have an advantage come France. Later in the season, go through a hard time in Sardinia, to a more neutral Finland and you have a great time in Germany.
Do a random draw, and you might find yourself running 12th on all tarmac event, and 1st in Mexico, Chile, Argentina and Sardinia which is some of the worst rallies to run first in.

Though - "if there isn't much in it" are not my words...

You assume too much, weather makes anywhere a roll of the dice whether you have an advantage or not. Like I said you have your opinion I have mine, no one has to be right ‘without a doubt’

Edited by Danyy, 04 January 2019 - 22:22.


#825 ArnageWRC

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 15:40

It's 2019, time for a new thread methinks.