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2018 Rallying thread (WRC, World RX, ERC, etc)


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#101 ArnageWRC

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 16:17

I'm all for a return of the Safari - as long as it's a proper event, and not a 2-3 day 'generic WRC event', which would be a waste. Make it tough, long, etc  



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#102 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 16:25

Having lost their round of World RallyX to Silverstone, Lydden have got the final of the Global Rallycross Championship on the last weekend in Oct.

...and they're having to build a big jump somewhere on the track...



#103 chunder27

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 20:43

They are also charging the same amount as they did in 2017 for WRX, for an event that no-one but GRC can compete in, in a class that usually only gets about 12 cars, in October nearly November

 

Good luck with that, greedy pigs



#104 Muppetmad

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:40

Neuville leads; Ogier is in 11th. I'd be happy to see the rally finish like this - but somehow I doubt that'll happen...


Edited by Muppetmad, 16 February 2018 - 09:40.


#105 Stephane

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:42

https://twitter.com/...459296569397248

Plus

Time to plough on with the afternoon loop where @SebOgier will be clearing a clean line through the snow once again. Hof-Finnskog 2 (SS5, 21.26 km) gets underway at 13h41 (CET) #WRC #FordPerformance #RallySweden

À l'origine en anglais

 
DWJyS4eXUAAsNQq.jpg


#106 Branislav

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 15:44

What a stupid, stupid rule :down:



#107 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 16:11

Agreed its a stupid rule.....surely each gravel / snow rally can get 6-8 national level drivers to run through the stages before the World Rally crews to clear / sweep the roads?



#108 Muppetmad

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 18:10

Everybody is going to be advantaged/disadvantaged by running orders at one time or another - it's the nature of the sport, and all of them deal with it. Starting first can be a disadvantage on some rallies, an advantage on others.



#109 Myrvold

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 18:34

What a stupid, stupid rule :down:


Agreed its a stupid rule.....surely each gravel / snow rally can get 6-8 national level drivers to run through the stages before the World Rally crews to clear / sweep the roads?


First, what rule would be better. Last in champ. goes first? The last 4 years in Sweden it's been an advantage to run first (no matter how much Ogier still complains). I was on SS Svullrya today, met the snowplough around 0430.
However. Ogier complains a lot about how awful it is to run after national cars as well as they drive other lines than the WRC cars... basically Ogier always complain!

#110 Myrvold

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 18:36

Edit: Videos gone.


Edited by Myrvold, 18 February 2018 - 13:17.


#111 Branislav

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 23:26

Starting first can be a disadvantage on some rallies, an advantage on others.

Advantage? Where?



#112 Muppetmad

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:20

Advantage? Where?

Running first on tarmac rallies is often an advantage - the road is clean. The first few runners typically capitalise on this by intentionally cutting corners to drag dirt out onto the road, reducing the grip for those yet to run.



#113 sopa

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:56

It's quite standard for the first runner to be at a disadvantage in rallies on loose surface, but this year's Sweden is very extreme. Ogier struggled to stay inside top 10 and the two Toyotas - who were running after him - have dropped well off the lead too. And you could argue all three are snow specialists, they finished 1-2-3 last year!

 

Of course, ** happens and sometimes you get very unlucky. But that's as extreme you can get. Top 3 in the championship had no chance at all.



#114 Muppetmad

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:37

Somebody was going to have to bear it. If Ogier loses the championship lead as a result, he won't sweep the roads in Mexico and he can capitalise on that.

 

It'd be nice if the problem didn't exist, but it does, and sometimes it works in someone's favour and at other times in another's. That's rallying for you.



#115 TF110

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 09:06

Looks like Toyota is back on form, 1-2-3 on SS10.



#116 messy

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 09:15

This is a properly strange Rally this year isn't it? I know running first is always a disadvantage but it's been pretty extreme, Ogier is 3 minutes off the lead, he's going to struggle to claw back a top six finish let alone get back into contention at the sharp end. It really skews how well the drivers are actually doing. Is Craig Breen, for example, having the Rally of his life and announcing himself to the motorsport world as a superstar, or is he just enjoying vastly favourable conditions?

#117 tormave

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 17:41

This is a properly strange Rally this year isn't it? I know running first is always a disadvantage but it's been pretty extreme, Ogier is 3 minutes off the lead, he's going to struggle to claw back a top six finish let alone get back into contention at the sharp end. It really skews how well the drivers are actually doing. Is Craig Breen, for example, having the Rally of his life and announcing himself to the motorsport world as a superstar, or is he just enjoying vastly favourable conditions?

 

There's just a lot more snow this year compared to previous years in Sweden. It would've been a lot more even if it didn't snow all day Friday. Gotta feel bad for Tänak, he's really had the rally of his life and will barely score points. The other factor is just the quality of the field. Everyone in the 12 factory WRC cars bar Breen have won at least one WRC event, and 11/12 are still running. Hence plowing the road on day one drops you far enough down the field to have to plow on day two too.

 

I'm loving every minute of it nevertheless. Proper winter rally with snow banks for once.



#118 PiperPa42

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 17:46

There's just a lot more snow this year compared to previous years in Sweden. It would've been a lot more even if it didn't snow all day Friday. Gotta feel bad for Tänak, he's really had the rally of his life and will barely score points. The other factor is just the quality of the field. Everyone in the 12 factory WRC cars bar Breen have won at least one WRC event, and 11/12 are still running. Hence plowing the road on day one drops you far enough down the field to have to plow on day two too.
 
I'm loving every minute of it nevertheless. Proper winter rally with snow banks for once.


I loved when I was in Norway, I can't believe that's been 9 and 11 years. Rally Sweden in between the too were a bummer with no snow.

#119 tormave

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 19:03

Running first on tarmac rallies is often an advantage - the road is clean. The first few runners typically capitalise on this by intentionally cutting corners to drag dirt out onto the road, reducing the grip for those yet to run.

 

Starting first has sometimes been an advantage in Sweden too. If the roads are icy with no snow, the ice breaks for later starters, and only the first cars' spikes have proper "bite" on the surface.



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#120 Myrvold

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 20:35

Yup. The last 4 years have been a case of first on the road is best. Actually, if it hadn't snowed so close to the rally that could easily been the case again as the ice-base is solid this year, and we had a little period with light rain 10-ish days before the rally, which meant that with no snow leading up it would be better to run first.

However, Ogier complained those years as well as the slower cars made new grooves for run 2.

So.
Ogier runs first on clear ice = complaints
Ogier runs after 2WD cars = complaints
Ogier runs first on slight ice, no snow = complaints
Ogier runs after Historics = complaints
Ogier runs first in proper classic snow conditions = complaints

So basically whatever condition in Sweden, Ogier will be unhappy. I wonder what would make him happy tbh...

#121 ArnageWRC

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 20:41

Someone has to run first, it's the nature of the sport. My only issue is some drivers turning up for an event, that they have no chance of winning, or even getting close, thanks to the running order. It's a version of handicapping....

However, they could always bring back qualifying, but I'm not sure they really want to do that - as different winners increases interest. ( Or so the theory goes)



#122 tormave

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 21:26

Someone has to run first, it's the nature of the sport. My only issue is some drivers turning up for an event, that they have no chance of winning, or even getting close, thanks to the running order. It's a version of handicapping....

However, they could always bring back qualifying, but I'm not sure they really want to do that - as different winners increases interest. ( Or so the theory goes)

 

I'd hate to get  qualifying back. As success handicaps go, the current system is quite subtle. This year's Swedish rally is an outlier due to the fresh snow on day 1 and the most competitive WRC field - perhaps ever? Changeable conditions are anyway part of rallying - if it starts raining hard in the middle of a long SS, the later starters will have a massive disadvantage.



#123 noikeee

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 22:45

In my opinion the fairest system is championship leader picks his position (then 2nd placed in the championship etc), then after day 1 the rally leader picks his position (then 2nd placed in the rally).

But of course this would make things a whole lot more predictable.

#124 Myrvold

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 23:56

I'm extremely fed up by Ogier, but I am sure he would complain about that as well if the weather changes unexpectedly for the next day in such a situation.

And you would need to choose it the evening ahead due to all TC's with service times etc.

#125 tormave

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 03:46

In my opinion the fairest system is championship leader picks his position (then 2nd placed in the championship etc), then after day 1 the rally leader picks his position (then 2nd placed in the rally).
But of course this would make things a whole lot more predictable.

But is it really unequivocally fair, that the guys heading the championship is given an advantage over their lower placed competitors? That also means, that the races in the beginning of the season are more important for the championship than those at the end. Someone will alays have an advantage, and I think the current system is a pretty good compromise.

#126 MaGiK

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:15

Let the draw....

#127 chunder27

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:52

I think the older system where the top few picked their start position was fine.  but you had far longer rallies then, so you would get guys dropping down the times at the end of a stage to allow running one car behind, that neded to stop, so they bought in the pick system.

 

As I say that works fine in longer rallies, but now, to be minutes behind simply coz you are first on the road is a little ridiculous.

 

But so is allowing the leader to pick running 10th or something.

 

Perhaps a system where the top guys can only pick 3 or places lower is better,  But then you woudl have Ogier picking 4th, second guy picking 3rd etc etc. 

 

Or, more controversially, dont rally on snow! As it's always been this way really



#128 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 11:46

It looks like Ogier might be playing games to get a better starting position for the power stage...



#129 JuanPablo

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 11:54

That's exactly what Ogier is doing. Hope Breen brings it home in second. Great result for him.

#130 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:19

Neuville brings it home  :up:



#131 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:36

So, Ogier have seemingly only got 50 seconds penalty, but looking at when drivers started, he must've been 25 minutes late. That should be 250 sec penalty.

 

Anyway, I hope he retires after 2018. I really can't stand his constant moaning about everything.

 

EDIT: Updated now, Ogier down to 11th in the rally, getting the correct 250 sec penalty.


Edited by Myrvold, 18 February 2018 - 12:45.


#132 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 13:02

He finished 2nd in the power stage though, so he gets those points. If he did that on purpose, then that's taking the mickey.



#133 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 13:19

He finished 2nd in the power stage though, so he gets those points. If he did that on purpose, then that's taking the mickey.

 

He did do it on purpose.

"SUN 13:43 - OGIER UPDATE

The champion comes clean on the Power Stage mystery. "It was a team strategy. From our place in the order we had no chance. We tried to play a bit and get an acceptable position. On the Power Stage I made a few mistakes, I wasn't used to so much grip, but finally we archived out objective and took some points."

 

Do note that even here, he manages to get in a jibe at conditions and road order...


Edited by Myrvold, 18 February 2018 - 13:19.


#134 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 13:32

Well, what can I say? That's pretty pathetic.



#135 noikeee

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:47

Well it feels wrong and unsporting, but it's the correct strategy championship-wise. Got him more points, didn't he?



#136 proviz

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 15:51

Surprised no-one has picked up the real highlight of the rally: Katsuta beating Tidemand and Veiby on their home stages fair and square! The boy's coming good!



#137 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:51

Well it feels wrong and unsporting, but it's the correct strategy championship-wise. Got him more points, didn't he?

 

Yes, but it's a piss poor way to do stuff.

 

Surprised no-one has picked up the real highlight of the rally: Katsuta beating Tidemand and Veiby on their home stages fair and square! The boy's coming good!

 

It certainly was a thing very few saw coming. However, the Japs have been in Finland for a long long time since the end of last season and apparently money has been poured in to Tommi Mäkinen Racing, and both the guys (Katsuta and Arai) have been testing an extreme amount over the winter, and mainly on snow. So they were both exceptionally well prepared. The norm is that drivers have some test days and that's it - The TMR guys are testing extensively, financed by Toyota. In addition to this, the Pirelli snow tyres have a small advantage in the more loose snow conditions that was this year as the stud overhang is slightly bigger than the Michelin tyres, making them bite a bit better in to the ice below the snow, while the Michelins can miss out on the ice below. Lastly, the Pirellis have been developed specifically for R5 cars, which are much less powerful than the WRC cars, while the Michelins are made for WRC-cars. Michelin will come with specifically made R5/WRC tyres for 2019.

Now, this sounds like I mean Katsuta should've won it, that's not the case, he drove extremely good, which we also saw on the stages I was spectating, the guy knows how to drive! It was just not as surprising as some might think :)



#138 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:55

First, sorry for double-posting, and double quoting noikeee, but I just read this.

Well, what can I say? That's pretty pathetic.

 
 

Well it feels wrong and unsporting, but it's the correct strategy championship-wise. Got him more points, didn't he?


Elfyn Evans have been 26 minutes late to Time Control 19A, thus getting a time penalty, moving Sebastien Ogier back up to 10th spot... It's not illegal, but it's a poor showing.

#139 tormave

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:06

Can’t imagine team orders on the 2nd event of the year for anybody else. I hope they immediately remove this loophole, so that you can only get PS points if you start the power stage on your own spot. Happy he didn’t manage to beat Lappi’s time.

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#140 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:15

Sure, the rules allow it, but it'd definitely leave a bitter taste in the mouth if Ogier were to win the title at the end of the year all because of this stunt. Everybody else around him had to deal with the road order as well; none of them threw their toys out of the pram or resorted to loopholes to give themselves preferential treatment.


Edited by Muppetmad, 18 February 2018 - 17:15.


#141 BRG

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 18:28

The whole Powerstage idea is a joke anyway, not at all in keeping with the traditions of rallying.  It is the DRS of the WRC - along with the Super Rally Get-Out-Of-Jail card. 



#142 ArnageWRC

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 20:56

The whole Powerstage idea is a joke anyway, not at all in keeping with the traditions of rallying.  It is the DRS of the WRC - along with the Super Rally Get-Out-Of-Jail card. 

I quite agree. The traditions of rallying are seemingly 'old hat' according to the 'WRC Promoter'. 

 

 

Also, I find it it bizarre that the Daytona 500 has more comments and interest than the current rallying season..... :rolleyes:



#143 Yamamoto

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 21:19

Neuville in a much better position than he was twelve months ago. We'll see how tough he finds it road-sweeping in Mexico. 



#144 tormave

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 23:55

Also, I find it it bizarre that the Daytona 500 has more comments and interest than the current rallying season..... :rolleyes:


Perhaps everyone else who likes rallying is on a different forum? I don’t remember when I was this excited about the sport. I’ve watched every stage on all live (most delayed because of time difference, and working, but on the same day) since the season started. I too have 80s rally nostalgia, but back then the coverage came in a month delayed in a paper magazine. It’s simply never been better to be a rally fan.

#145 Muppetmad

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 12:58

I wish the TV coverage could be better - I catch the stages on Red Bull TV wherever I can, but it would be lovely for a broadcaster to follow the Eurosport model for the IRC and broadcast every stage live - but I enjoy following the rallies nevertheless. WRC is better now than it has been for well over a decade.



#146 Stephane

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 14:31

WRCplus does that for you, you have to pay a bit, though



#147 Muppetmad

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 14:34

True, but I haven't heard great things about WRC+ so far. If it was more reliable, it'd probably be worth the investment.



#148 TauriJ

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 15:27

What investment? its free...for now

 

and wrc+ is one of the greatest things which has happened with world rally championship



#149 Muppetmad

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 17:05

On the website it says it's 89.99 euros per year, with a one week trial - if I'm missing a way to watch it for free, please do let me know!  :)


Edited by Muppetmad, 19 February 2018 - 17:05.


#150 Myrvold

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 17:13

Use the trial on a Thursday before a rally you know you can sit down and watch through the weekend :-)

It's not great yet though.