163 replies to this topic

[NixxxoN]

Another off-season thread

 

 

I'll start with an easy one, Spain

 

1- Fernando Alonso

2- Carlos Sainz Jr

3- Pedro de la Rosa

[HeadFirst]

Canada ... Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques Villeneuve, Greg Moore.

[NixxxoN]

Canada ... Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques Villeneuve, Greg Moore.

Sorry, only drivers who raced in F1.

 

I'd replace him with... Lance Stroll.

[PilgrimsDrop]

Sweden

1. Ronnie Peterson

2. Gunnar Nilsson

3. Stefan Johansson

[taz]

Belgium:

1. Jacky Ickx

2. Thierry Boutsen

3. Stoffel Vandoorne

Edited by taz, 24 December 2017 - 17:56.

[Pete_f1]

Wales: 1. Tom Pryce

2 um ...

[Collombin]

England - Moss Hamilton Brooks
Scotland - Clark Stewart Coulthard
Brazil - Senna Fittipaldi Piquet
Argentina - Fangio Reutemann Gonzalez
Finland - Hakkinen Rosberg Raikkonen
France - Prost Pironi Arnoux
Italy - Ascari Farina De Angelis
Germany - Schumacher Vettel Rosberg
NZ - Amon Hulme McLaren
Australia - Brabham Jones Ricciardo
USA - Andretti Gurney Hill
Austria - Rindt Lauda Berger

Couldn't think of any other places with 3 seriously strong contenders but no doubt have forgotten a few. Mulled wine kicking in, so might have missed a couple of strong drivers in the lists above too.

[sopa]

I think Olivier Gendebien would be a good shout for a top 3 in Belgium. Well, till Vandoorne gains more experience and really proves himself as a strong contender.

[NixxxoN]

Sweden and Belgium sound about right

Wales? Should we say the entire UK not nations within UK? Or maybe both is ok. 

[NixxxoN]

England - Moss Hamilton Brooks
Scotland - Clark Stewart Coulthard
Brazil - Senna Fittipaldi Piquet
Argentina - Fangio Reutemann Gonzalez
Finland - Hakkinen Rosberg Raikkonen
France - Prost Pironi Arnoux
Italy - Ascari Farina De Angelis
Germany - Schumacher Vettel Rosberg
NZ - Amon Hulme McLaren
Australia - Brabham Jones Ricciardo
USA - Andretti Gurney Hill
Austria - Rindt Lauda Berger

Couldn't think of any other places with 3 seriously strong contenders but no doubt have forgotten a few. Mulled wine kicking in, so might have missed a couple of strong drivers in the lists above too.

Are those sorted?

Brooks better than Mansell?

I would put Luigi Fagioli as a strong contender for Italy top 3, its either him or De Angelis probably

[sopa]

Wales: 1. Tom Pryce

2 um ...

 

Northern Ireland:

 

1. Watson

2. Irvine

3. Donnelly?

[Collombin]

Are those sorted?
Brooks better than Mansell?
I would put Luigi Fagioli as a strong contender for Italy top 3, its either him or De Angelis probably

Sorted was the intention, although I can't help thinking I've overlooked an Italian or two.

Completely happy with Brooks over Mansell though. The wine isn't all that strong.

[V8 Fireworks]

 

1. Sir Jack Brabham

2. Alan Jones

3. Mark Webber

[NixxxoN]

Sorted was the intention, although I can't help thinking I've overlooked an Italian or two.

Completely happy with Brooks over Mansell though. The wine isn't all that strong.

I think also Moss over Hamilton and Rindt over Lauda are quite questionable.

[Collombin]

I think also Moss over Hamilton and Rindt over Lauda are quite questionable.

My criterion was personal perception of talent levels. Everyone's lists will vary. The great thing about this thread is that at least it is guaranteed to be free of any national bias.

[NixxxoN]

My criterion was personal perception of talent levels. Everyone's lists will vary. The great thing about this thread is that at least it is guaranteed to be free of any national bias.

 

True that, no international fights

 

Netherlands:

 

1- Max Verstappen

2- Jos Verstappen

3- Carel Godin de Beaufort

 

 

 

PS: In V8's list, I can't agree about Webber better than Ricciardo, even Webber himself said Ric is better than he ever was

Edited by NixxxoN, 24 December 2017 - 16:49.

[noriaki]

Are those sorted?

Brooks better than Mansell?

I would put Luigi Fagioli as a strong contender for Italy top 3, its either him or De Angelis probably

 

Luigi Fagioli was a great driver but his achievements were mostly pre-war. He was an old man come 1950-1951 when he raced the most dominant car in F1 history yet only won one race, and even that was a shared drive with Fangio where Fagioli did not lead a single lap himself. If we consider only post 1950 then frankly I'd rank many Italians ahead of him, de Angelis for sure but also the likes of Alboreto, Fisi and Patrese as well. 

 

 

 

Netherlands:

 

1- Max Verstappen

2- Jos Verstappen

3- Carel Godin de Beaufort

 

PS: In V8's list, I can't agree about Webber better than Ricciardo, even Webber himself said Ric is better than he ever was

 

de Beaufort was a gentleman driver; I vaguely recall a stat where he still has the records of total laps driven on the last place in F1 races? Though I don't know who to rank P3 either. Doornbos, Lammers, van Lennep, van der Garde..? 

 

---

 

Switzerland: Regazzoni, Siffert, Surer

Mexico: P Rodriguez, S Perez, R Rodriguez

Japan: Sato, Kobayashi, Suzuki

South Africa: J Scheckter, Maggs, I Scheckter

 

eeemmmmm...

Portugal? Monteiro, Lamy, Chaves? *checks* Mario Araujo de Cabral 

[sopa]

Luigi Fagioli was a great driver but his achievements were mostly pre-war. He was an old man come 1950-1951 when he raced the most dominant car in F1 history yet only won one race, and even that was a shared drive with Fangio where Fagioli did not lead a single lap himself. If we consider only post 1950 then frankly I'd rank many Italians ahead of him, de Angelis for sure but also the likes of Alboreto, Fisi and Patrese as well. 

 

I'd also argue Farina was kind of past it, when the championship started. So he can be knocked down from P2.

[noriaki]

I'd also argue Farina was kind of past it, when the championship started. So he can be knocked down from P2.

 

Yeah he was. Though he was definitely lucky to win the 1950 title with JMF's reliability problems, Nino still did give Fangio a fair challenge that year - and then again I don't know who to place above Farina anyway. Not even sure about de Angelis - good, talented driver, but probably not World Champion material after all.

 

Italy did have a steady supply of great GP drivers from Antonio to Alberto Ascari, but since him there has not really been one great Italian driver - for some reason they began producing great bike riders instead (Agostini, Rossi et al)! 

[Regazzoni]

CH: Rega, Siffert, Moser

Italia: Ascari, Andretti, Patrese.

 

EDIT - CH: Rega, Siffert, Toulo - equally.

Edited by Regazzoni, 24 December 2017 - 17:45.

[V8 Fireworks]

PS: In V8's list, I can't agree about Webber better than Ricciardo, even Webber himself said Ric is better than he ever was

 

No question Ricciardo will overtake Webber and Ricciardo is the faster driver, but IMO Webber's acheivements stand higher for the time-being.

[Kalmake]

Rosberg - Häkkinen - Rosberg

[NixxxoN]

Luigi Fagioli was a great driver but his achievements were mostly pre-war. He was an old man come 1950-1951 when he raced the most dominant car in F1 history yet only won one race, and even that was a shared drive with Fangio where Fagioli did not lead a single lap himself. If we consider only post 1950 then frankly I'd rank many Italians ahead of him, de Angelis for sure but also the likes of Alboreto, Fisi and Patrese as well. 

 

 

 

de Beaufort was a gentleman driver; I vaguely recall a stat where he still has the records of total laps driven on the last place in F1 races? Though I don't know who to rank P3 either. Doornbos, Lammers, van Lennep, van der Garde..? 

 

---

 

Switzerland: Regazzoni, Siffert, Surer

Mexico: P Rodriguez, S Perez, R Rodriguez

Japan: Sato, Kobayashi, Suzuki

South Africa: J Scheckter, Maggs, I Scheckter

 

eeemmmmm...

Portugal? Monteiro, Lamy, Chaves? *checks* Mario Araujo de Cabral 

 

I would include the pre war achievements as they were top competitions back then. The requirement is to have raced in modern F1.

Therefore for example, we can't include Tazio Nuvolari in Top 3 Italy.

 

De Beaufort though was more successful than the likes of Albers, Doornbos and Van der Garde Anyway its hard to place a 3rd best.

Good lists those 4 but I dont know if I would place first Sato or Kobayashi, the latter I think he deserved to stay in F1, he was never destroyed by any team mate like Sato was

[Regazzoni]

Japan: Hoshino, Hasemi, Takahara.

[Spillage]

Fun game. Sticking to F1, here are some of mine:

 

Great Britain:

1) Clark

2) Stewart

3) Hamilton

 

Germany:

1) Schumacher

2) Vettel

3) Rosberg

 

France:

1) Prost

2) Pironi

3) Arnoux

 

USA:
1) Andretti]

2) Gurney

3) Hill

 

Finland:

1) Hakkinen

2) Raikkonen

3) Rosberg

 

Brazil:

1) Senna

2) Fittipaldi

3) Piquet

 

Australia:

1) Brabham

2) Jones

3) Ricciardo

[turk157]

Only two from India

Kartikeyan

Chandok

[Kalmake]

Clark - Senna - Hamilton

[sopa]

Clark - Senna - Hamilton

 

British Empire stretched quite far in its heyday, but not quite that far...

[Regazzoni]

Abruzzo: Tarquini, Trulli, Liuzzi.

[Lipp]

True that, no international fights

 

Netherlands:

 

1- Max Verstappen

2- Jos Verstappen

3- Carel Godin de Beaufort

 

 

 

PS: In V8's list, I can't agree about Webber better than Ricciardo, even Webber himself said Ric is better than he ever was

3rd should be van Lennep, as he scored 2 points in 8 starts over 4 years.

Edited by Lipp, 24 December 2017 - 20:58.

[messy]

Finland

Mika Hakkinen
Kimi Raikkonen
Keke Rosberg

Germany

Michael Schumacher
Sebastian Vettel
Wolfgang Von Trips

Brazil

Ayrton Senna
Rubens Barrichello
Nelson Piquet

Great Britain

Jackie Stewart
Nigel Mansell
Jim Clark

France

Alain Prost
Patrick Depailler
Rene Arnoux

Italy

Alberto Ascari
Elio De Angelis
Riccardo Patrese

Australia

Alan Jones
Mark Webber
Daniel Ricciardo

Austria

Jochen Rindt
Niki Lauda
Gerhard Berger

Own a*se

Lewis Hamilton
Jacques Villeneuve
Nelson Piquet Jr

[Henri Greuter]

3rd should be van Lennep, as he scored 2 points in 8 starts over 4 years.

No, De Beaufort scored 4 points all together for 4 6th places....

 

Henri

[EightGear]

3rd should be van Lennep, as he scored 2 points in 8 starts over 4 years.

+two overall Le Mans victories and 1 Targa Florio. He may not have done 'much' in F1, but in general this puts him well above the likes of Van der Garde, Albers and Doornbos.

[Nemo1965]

True that, no international fights

Netherlands:

1- Max Verstappen
2- Jos Verstappen
3- Carel Godin de Beaufort



PS: In V8's list, I can't agree about Webber better than Ricciardo, even Webber himself said Ric is better than he ever was

What a silly list. Order now (can change in the future, Max progress is fast)

1. Gijs van Lennep
2. Max Verstappen.
3. Arie Luyendijk/ Jan Lammers

[Ivanhoe]

Luyendijk didn't drive F1

[Nemo1965]

Luyendijk didn't drive F1

True. But I could not bear leaving him out.

[loki]

USA - Andretti Gurney Hill
 

 

I didn't know Benny Hill raced or was an American...         DOH!!

 

A couple years back on the show Chasing Classic Cars Wayne Carini visited Phil's son Derek to check out a couple of the early cars in the collection.  Derek is now the Master of Ceremonies at Pebble Beach.  At the concurs this year they showed some of Phil Hill's photo collection. Apparently he was quite the photographer.  There is a book just due to be released covering Phil's story with his pictures which originally were Kodachrome slides.  http://phil-hill-book.com/the-book

[noriaki]

I would include the pre war achievements as they were top competitions back then. The requirement is to have raced in modern F1.
Therefore for example, we can't include Tazio Nuvolari in Top 3 Italy.

De Beaufort though was more successful than the likes of Albers, Doornbos and Van der Garde Anyway its hard to place a 3rd best.
Good lists those 4 but I dont know if I would place first Sato or Kobayashi, the latter I think he deserved to stay in F1, he was never destroyed by any team mate like Sato was

Okay fair enough regarding Fagioli now that you clarified the criteria. Though that also qualifies Hans Stuck and Hermann Lang as valid candidates for Germany's top 3.

Sato vs Koba is an interesting debate, you can have valid arguments for both really. I picked Sato because at his best he could be, and still can be, absolutely mega. But then again, his bad days were very bad whereas Kamui was more consistent overall and probably more "worthy" of his f1 seats, so it depends on the judge really.
--
@the posters above: Hoshino, the Japanese Mario Andretti was probably still greater a racing driver than either of them, and suppose you could possibly say that in the Dutch debate about van Lennep vs Max too (for now) - but neither got to shine in Grand Prix level equipment too much which is what I believe this topic was intended to be about.

[Collombin]

I didn't know Benny Hill raced or was an American... DOH!!

He was very good actually - on two separate occasions he was the winner of the fastest US championship race ever held. Only later did he start paying tribute to fast milkmen.

[NixxxoN]

Okay fair enough regarding Fagioli now that you clarified the criteria. Though that also qualifies Hans Stuck and Hermann Lang as valid candidates for Germany's top 3.

Sato vs Koba is an interesting debate, you can have valid arguments for both really. I picked Sato because at his best he could be, and still can be, absolutely mega. But then again, his bad days were very bad whereas Kamui was more consistent overall and probably more "worthy" of his f1 seats, so it depends on the judge really.
--
@the posters above: Hoshino, the Japanese Mario Andretti was probably still greater a racing driver than either of them, and suppose you could possibly say that in the Dutch debate about van Lennep vs Max too (for now) - but neither got to shine in Grand Prix level equipment too much which is what I believe this topic was intended to be about.

 

Yes, I think Stuck and Lang could be candidates for 3rd place with Rosberg, but its very hard to tell since they were veru different eras, the two extremes actually...

 

I didnt know van Lennep was that good... I dont know, mind you winning Le Mans doesnt necessarily mean you must be a great driver, lots of very average drivers for F1 standards have won it, check here https://en.wikipedia...Le_Mans_winners

Marc Gene for example won it and still I'd rate De La Rosa higher (in spanish top 3) any day

[taz]

Yes, I think Stuck and Lang could be candidates for 3rd place with Rosberg, but its very hard to tell since they were veru different eras, the two extremes actually...

 

I didnt know van Lennep was that good... I dont know, mind you winning Le Mans doesnt necessarily mean you must be a great driver, lots of very average drivers for F1 standards have won it, check here https://en.wikipedia...Le_Mans_winners

Marc Gene for example won it and still I'd rate De La Rosa higher (in spanish top 3) any day

At Le Mans you don't win it alone, Van Lennep won the '76 edition together with 6 time Le Mans Winner Jacky Ickx..

[HeadFirst]

Sorry, only drivers who raced in F1.

 

I'd replace him with... Lance Stroll.

 

I was hoping to avoid Lance ...... does getting a try-out and offer (from Toleman I think) count? If so, I nominate Paul Tracy.

[Myrvold]

I was hoping to avoid Lance ...... does getting a try-out and offer (from Toleman I think) count? If so, I nominate Paul Tracy.

Tracy would've been 17 when Toleman had it's last season in 85.
He did test for Benetton almost 10 years later though

[Tsarwash]

GB; Clark, Stewart Hamilton. Cannot believe that I have to leave Moss out.   

[Rob G]

Combining the countries with fewer than three representatives: Juan Montoya*, Robert Kubica, Tom Pryce

 

* I'm not including Ricardo Londoño in Colombia's total since he never drove in an official F1 practice session, let alone qualifying.
 

Edited by Rob G, 25 December 2017 - 03:48.

[wonk123]

Australia

Alan Jones
Mark Webber
Daniel Ricciardo
 

 

Australia

Alan Jones
Mark Webber
Daniel Ricciardo

 

 

I am not sure how anyone could leave Sir Jack Brabham out of this list. Sure he was a genius engineer, but he also won three times as many WDC as Jones, Webber and Ricciardo combined!

[Stallknecht]

Denmark:

 

1. Kevin Magnussen
2. Jan Magnussen
3. Nicolas Kiesa

A real shame that Tom Kristensen never got a real chance for seat in F1 

[PayasYouRace]

Clark - Senna - Hamilton

Senna Proctor isn’t in F1 yet, though he is doing ok in BTCC.

[Anderis]

Poland:

1.

2. Kubica

3. Robert

[sopa]

Alex Yoong takes the honours for Malaysia, while Rio Haryanto for Indonesia. At least they can boast about being the best in something!