29 replies to this topic

[chunder27]

Possibly one of the best youtubers for pure sounds Bozzy has posted up a fantastic vid on youtube from Monza in 2017.

 

Am not going to post it here, as I don't like directing traffic elsewhere, that is for other to do.

 

But it highlights something I was noticing a few times late last year in the times I watched the odd session.

 

An increased engine sounds from the RB, TR and Honda cars.

 

Almost as if a bypass valve is open and a huge increase in noise comes through?

 

Only seemed to happen in Bozzy's video on those cars, nothing else.

[MatsNorway]

Found it. Damn i wish they had flat fuel flow. The engine noise is so muted and rounded. Removing MUGH helps so lets see.

[Scotracer]

I've heard it at the track too. It's mostly noticeable during high speed practice runs or qualifying, didn't really happen in the race.

 

 

It's simply the wastegate on the turbo opening. It means the exhaust flow bypasses the turbine and has lots more energy therefore noise. It doesn't happen in long-run mode as they're trying to harvest as much MGU-H energy as possible.

 

What is interesting is you don't hear it much on the Mercedes or Ferrari engines. They must have different (nee more sophisticated) wastegate control.

[jjcale]

Ive said from the start that the sound of the cars (esp the tone) improved a lot last year .... can still get better, but much improved since 2014 and 2015.  

 

In fact I think the tone is much better than the screaming V8s - very low and beautiful. From the other side of a circuit the Williams sounds like a fighter plane in the far distance - just needs to be louder now. A lot louder. 

 

The V8 sound was iconic though ... cant think of anything else that sounded like that.... that high pitched whine literally said "Formula 1 is here - and in your face. Screw anybody living or working nearby!". 

[FPV GTHO]

If it only happens on the Honda and Renault and not the Mercedes or Ferrari, you would think its something they shouldnt be doing.

[kumo7]

I've heard it at the track too. It's mostly noticeable during high speed practice runs or qualifying, didn't really happen in the race.

 

 

It's simply the wastegate on the turbo opening. It means the exhaust flow bypasses the turbine and has lots more energy therefore noise. It doesn't happen in long-run mode as they're trying to harvest as much MGU-H energy as possible.

 

What is interesting is you don't hear it much on the Mercedes or Ferrari engines. They must have different (nee more sophisticated) wastegate control.

 

Honda sounded the most ... meaning the lesser the was it gate sound is, the better the performance is.

It goes against the intention of creating the waist gate.

I still kind of interested the sounds of the current Formula One engine. Especially from the sounds from turbo in combination with K- a& H-motor.

 

Never the less, it is not as obvious as the one of V10 with no Turbo on it. 

Get rid of Turbo with all K- and H-motors, it might be not 1, 2, 3 to find the solution for, but it is the way to increase more sounds...

[CoolBreeze]

You call that sound? MotoGp sounds wayy better than that and even ricer boys car. 

[PayasYouRace]

You call that sound? MotoGp sounds wayy better than that and even ricer boys car.

Just shows you can’t account for taste. I can’t think of an engine sound more offensive to the ears than that of a motorcycle engine.

[Ben1445]

Just shows you can’t account for taste. 

Very much so. I cannot stand the big growly V8s of the Corvettes and Astons in GTE, yet to some they are pure heaven. And that's ok. 

 

I don't get why people get so upset about the V6T F1 engine sound. You either like it or you don't, so what? 

[V8 Fireworks]

Just shows you can’t account for taste. I can’t think of an engine sound more offensive to the ears than that of a motorcycle engine.

 

Heck, I must question your taste given that the iconic Cosworth DFV or any other F1 V8 are essentially just two motorcycle inline-fours joined together!? 

 

Cosworth DFVs have a very four-cylinder-esque rasp, and why shouldn't they -- they are two four-cylinder engines joined together.

 

Many fans think they sound great by the way -- be that MotoGP, World Superbike or V8-powered open wheel cars. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 27 December 2017 - 16:16.

[V8 Fireworks]

Very much so. I cannot stand the big growly V8s of the Corvettes and Astons in GTE, yet to some they are pure heaven. And that's ok. 

 

I don't get why people get so upset about the V6T F1 engine sound. You either like it or you don't, so what? 

 

Because it's a pity given that the V10 sound was distinctive and unique.  The V8 was mostly ok too.  It was a kind of signature of F1, a sound you could not find at any other type of motor racing event.

 

Whereas you can hear low-revving turbo sixes just about anywhere from GT3 classes to hordes of Nissan GTRs at your local hillclimb.

[Sterzo]

The nature of the sound is far more important to me than the volume. High revving multiple small cylinders generally sound better than lazily rumbling big cylinders. Sixes and twelves usually sound smoother than fours and eights. The V10s made a nice sound but were actually painful to listen to because of the excess volume, even when heard across acres of gravel trap.

 

As for the telly - well, the volume is up to the broadcaster.

[tomjol]

Heck, I must question your taste given that the iconic Cosworth DFV or any other F1 V8 are essentially just two motorcycle inline-fours joined together!? 
 
Cosworth DFVs have a very four-cylinder-esque rasp, and why shouldn't they -- they are two four-cylinder engines joined together.
 
Many fans think they sound great by the way -- be that MotoGP, World Superbike or V8-powered open wheel cars. 

 
Just to point out, both Honda and Ducati run V4s in MotoGP these days 

ETA: And for that matter, all the inline bikes run "big bang" configurations with cross-plane cranks, there are no longer any screamers.

For me personally, there is almost always something to enjoy about the sound of an engine, and variety is part of the fun.
 

Ive said from the start that the sound of the cars (esp the tone) improved a lot last year .... can still get better, but much improved since 2014 and 2015.  
 
In fact I think the tone is much better than the screaming V8s - very low and beautiful. From the other side of a circuit the Williams sounds like a fighter plane in the far distance - just needs to be louder now. A lot louder. 
 
The V8 sound was iconic though ... cant think of anything else that sounded like that.... that high pitched whine literally said "Formula 1 is here - and in your face. Screw anybody living or working nearby!".

Agree, especially about the improvement this year, although for me the V8s were a poor imitation of the V10s in their pomp.

Edited by tomjol, 27 December 2017 - 18:12.

[chunder27]

I think to be honest if all the F1 engines sounded like these open wastegate ones, a lot of sounds issues would be solved, they almost sound like the 80's cars,. brutal, viscous.  Sound great to me, compared to the wimpy refined closed gate ones.

 

Regarding bike engines, a lot of people did not like the open pipe 2 stroke era coz they were ear splitting, as were the early MotoGP days.

 

But some bikes do still sound lovely, though a high  revving Jap 4 does wear on you a bit, but then so would a field of F3 cars, or prototypes that all sound the same like the Nissan engined P2 cars, dullest sound in racing for me.

 

Something like an RC45, or a Norton rotary or a 90's 2 stroke V4 is a lovely sounding thing.

[johnmhinds]

Newsflash, engines without a turbo in the way sound louder.

[chunder27]

Anything more to add, or did you simply read the post and username and decide to add nothing?

[Ben1445]

Because it's a pity given that the V10 sound was distinctive and unique.  The V8 was mostly ok too.  It was a kind of signature of F1, a sound you could not find at any other type of motor racing event.

 

Whereas you can hear low-revving turbo sixes just about anywhere from GT3 classes to hordes of Nissan GTRs at your local hillclimb.

I guess so. My only real complaint about F1 at the moment sound wise is that it's ​only V6Ts. Some variation would be nice. 

[Wuzak]

Sound great to me, compared to the wimpy refined closed gate ones.

 

The "refined closed gate ones" recover more energy from the exhaust and thus have more available power.

[Wuzak]

The 2017 engines did sound louder and more aggressive than the previous couple of years to me. I believe this is because the new aero rules and tyres allowed them to be run harder. 

 

In previous years it seemed to me that the cars were quieter in the race than they were in practice - because they had to look after tyres.

[V8 Fireworks]

The "refined closed gate ones" recover more energy from the exhaust and thus have more available power.

 

Many fans could not care less!

[V8 Fireworks]

 

But some bikes do still sound lovely, though a high  revving Jap 4 does wear on you a bit, but then so would a field of F3 cars, or prototypes that all sound the same like the Nissan engined P2 cars, dullest sound in racing for me.

 

 

A full field of identical sounds is tiresome.  Even a full field of V8 Supercars sounds repetitive.  Most fans loved the smooth sportbike sound of the Volvo V8 Supercar.  The banshee wail of the Mercedes was popular too. Yet if 95% of the V8 Supercars sounded like those, then I'm sure the odd ones out with rumbling American V8s would have been the fan favourite instead (much like some Le Mans fans love the deep growl of the Corvettes).  Race fans are funny like that. 

 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 December 2017 - 00:58.

[johnmhinds]

Anything more to add, or did you simply read the post and username and decide to add nothing?

Most people just seem to be listing off numbers of cylinders and proclaiming that they’re louder/quieter when the cars having turbos is the biggest volume issue.

If they went back to V10s but the engine manufacturers kept the turbos for the recovery features they want then the volume wouldn’t change all that much.

[Wuzak]

Many fans could not care less!

 

Many fans would prefer more sound than more performance?

[V8 Fireworks]

Many fans would prefer more sound than more performance?

 

Yes!! 

 

It is possible to have more performance than necessary.

 

V10s with "only" 700hp would not detract from the straight line or cornering spectacle much if at all, yet the sound would thrill many fans.

 

It doesn't seem slow, even while running just say 700hp. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 December 2017 - 07:28.

[Danyy]

V10 heaven! That sound literally screams F1!

[PayasYouRace]

Sadly this thread which opened as a question regarding what different manufacturers are doing with their F1 engines and turbos has descended into the usual tedious argument about what sounds great. It’s tedious because it’s all a matter of personal taste and nobody is wrong.

Can we get back to what the OP was asking about?

[Wuzak]

Yes!! 

 

It is possible to have more performance than necessary.

 

V10s with "only" 700hp would not detract from the straight line or cornering spectacle much if at all, yet the sound would thrill many fans.

 

It doesn't seem slow, even while running just say 700hp. 

 

So you wouldn't mind your favourite team getting beaten every race because its engine sounds better than the one beating it?

 

V10s with only 700hp would only have similar speeds if they used less downforce which would impact cornering speeds, and they would probably be easier to handle and get less out of shape too.

 

Massa described cars from 2008 to 2016 as being "grandmothers' cars" - 2008 to 2013 because they didn't have enough power, despite the V8s having approximately 750hp,  and 2014-2016 because the chassis/tyres were not up to the power. 

[V8 Fireworks]

Sadly this thread which opened as a question regarding what different manufacturers are doing with their F1 engines and turbos has descended into the usual tedious argument about what sounds great. It’s tedious because it’s all a matter of personal taste and nobody is wrong.

Can we get back to what the OP was asking about?

 

The latter was resolved.  Honda and Renault were opening the wastegate.

 

However the issue of overcomplicated power units that don't satisfy fans remain.  Franz Tost knows his stuff, and he says these units are junk.  Surely as Toro Rosso boss he is not wrong! 

 

Most enthusiasts love all types of combustion engine and EV vehicles.    The F1 power units are a pity though as to how lacklustre yet expensive they are. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 December 2017 - 19:27.

[Wuzak]

The latter was resolved.  Honda and Renault were opening the wastegate.

 

However the issue of overcomplicated power units that don't satisfy fans remain.  Franz Tost knows his stuff, and he says these units are junk.  Surely as Toro Rosso boss he is not wrong! 

 

As boss of Toro Rosso he has just agreed to take on Honda power units. He knows he may be in for some trying times.

[PayasYouRace]

The latter was resolved.  Honda and Renault were opening the wastegate.

 

However the issue of overcomplicated power units that don't satisfy fans remain.  Franz Tost knows his stuff, and he says these units are junk.  Surely as Toro Rosso boss he is not wrong! 

 

Most enthusiasts love all types of combustion engine and EV vehicles.    The F1 power units are a pity though as to how lacklustre yet expensive they are. 

 

So use the appropriate thread for it.