44 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

28th January is one of those dates I can never forget.



RIP Bernd, Elly and Professor Porsche

[2F-001]

An altogether remarkable couple…
As if to make Bernd's life and achievements seem a little less far away, we are only just past the tenth anniversary of Elly's passing.

[Tim Murray]

Yes indeed, an amazing woman who survived to reach her century. I’ve just re-read the fascinating interview she gave to Aldo Zana a few years before she died (found on Leif Snellman’s Golden Era site):

http://www.kolumbus....ellman/elly.htm

[cpbell]

An altogether remarkable couple…
As if to make Bernd's life and achievements seem a little less far away, we are only just past the tenth anniversary of Elly's passing.

I hadn't realised that today was the 80th anniversary.  R.I.P.

[Sterzo]

Berndt Rosemeyer is one of the most difficult drivers to assess; although to be fair it's obvious he was brilliant, the only question is how brilliant. To step straight from bikes into a Grand Prix car, and to be European Champion in his second year (as well as German Champion and German Hillclimb Champion) is just breathtaking. With such a short career, we'll never know whether he would have maintained form year after year.

 

In '36 it was obviously a help that Mercedes had a down year, but not such a help to have Dr Porsche's evil swing axle suspension dangling behind a V16 behind him. The natural talent he must have had to tame that is beyond imagining. I've never bought the old cliché peddled by journalists in the thirties and fifties, that he had an advantage because he wasn't used to front engined cars. Firstly, the problem with the Auto Union's handling was not the engine position but the suspension. Secondly, the combination of high initial grip followed by snap oversteer must have called for phenonmenal sensitivity and reactions. Surely that's where he excelled.

 

Interesting to see the interview with the feisty Elly Beinhorn Rosemeyer you posted, Tim. Have you read the excellent (though less feisty) biography she wrote with Chris Nixon?

[2F-001]

Both the linked interview and the Chris Nixon work have passed me by somehow, so I clearly have some reading to do…

There is no real way to make objective comparisons, but might it perhaps be argued that the wife’s achievements are the greater since they were so dependent on her own drive, individualism and self-reliance?

It’s always hard (impossible?) to objectively assess such short careers (likewise Bellof, for example?).
I can see that not being steeped in the experience of how a more ‘traditional’ car is ‘supposed’ to handle might make it easier to come to terms with such a radical machine so quickly, but I doubt that was the deciding factor in Rosemeyer’s AU performances.
Do you think that AU was the making of Rosemeyer, or might he have be able to shine in something thought of as a lesser car, as Nuvolari had done? I suspect the latter, but who knows?

Edited by 2F-001, 28 January 2018 - 15:38.

[kayemod]

28th January is one of those dates I can never forget.



RIP Bernd, Elly and Professor Porsche

https://s26.postimg....8p/DSC_0003.jpg

 

And here's another one. I made a pilgrimage a few years ago, stopping at the signposted Bernd Rosemeyer lay by on the autobahn not far from Darmstadt. If anyone has been there, it's like the WW1 cemeteries, the Thiepval Arch and the Menin Gate in Ypres, I defy anyone with any appreciation of history to visit this spot without getting something in their eye. When I visited, there were several cars in that lay by, all German except for mine, and all had stopped to pay their respects to a truly great driver. There were fresh flowers and candles at the foot of the well-tended monument, and a steady trickle of respectful visitors with bowed heads.

 

 

https://s26.postimg....u1/DSC_0008.jpg

 

And as an added bonus, 5' 4½" Mrs Kayemod, a total non car/non motor racing fan, and even she was affected by this. I have one of me standing in the same spot, but I'll spare you that.

 

And as Frau Kayemod has a mention, here's the final resting place of Herr Rosemeyer and berühmt Deutsche Aviatrix Frau Rosemeyer, né Elly Beinhorn.

 

Edited by kayemod, 28 January 2018 - 16:49.

[Vitesse2]

The same memorial, 79 years ago today. Tazio Nuvolari lays a wreath. In the background - Hans Stuck, Rudi Hasse, Christian Kautz and DKW bike ace Walfried Winkler.

 

[Eric Dunsdon]

I hadn't seen the photograph of Tazio at the memorial before. Thank you for posting.

[Tim Murray]

Interesting to see the interview with the feisty Elly Beinhorn Rosemeyer you posted, Tim. Have you read the excellent (though less feisty) biography she wrote with Chris Nixon?

Yes indeed - I bought it as soon as it came out, and have been dipping into it again today. Reading it again has brought home to me what a busy week the Rosemeyers had in mid-June 1937. On Sunday 13th June Bernd won the Eifelrennen, his third consecutive major race win at the Nürburgring. The next day (Monday) Auto Union were back at the 'Ring for some promotional filming, and it was then that Bernd squeezed Elly into the AU cockpit alongside him and took her round for a lap.

On Wednesday 16th the team had moved to the Frankfurt-Darmstadt autobahn where Bernd broke a number of records, and this is where the photo in my opening post was taken. On his first run that day Bernd famously overshot his stopping point, went through the barrier closing off the autobahn and continued on towards Darmstadt in the everyday traffic. Elly flew them both back to Berlin, and the following day Bernd made his first solo flight in Elly's Messerschmitt Taifun. Elly speaks wistfully in the book about how that day she surrendered her independence - until then she'd had her flying as her own world in which she reigned supreme. Now that was gone.

Very shortly after that they were both aboard the Bremen sailing to the USA and the Vanderbilt Cup.

[2F-001]

Does anyone know if there has been an English language translation of Elly's book Alleinflug?

[Vitesse2]

Does anyone know if there has been an English language translation of Elly's book Alleinflug?

It was published in both Britain - by Geoffrey Bles - and the United States - by Holt - as 'Flying Girl' in 1935.

 

Extremely rare. The COPAC library database records only six copies in the UK - four in copyright libraries (British Library, National Library of Scotland, The Bodleian, University of Cambridge), one in the BL's National Collection in Boston Spa and the sixth in - somewhat surprisingly - the London School of Economics.

 

ETA: In their summer reading selection of travel books, The Times (July 26th 1935) described it as 'light-hearted ... described with infectious and unaffected glee'.

[Vitesse2]

And here's the review from The Daily Telegraph, Feb 15th 1935. Probably published the previous day - publishers usually chose Thursdays for publication as the major papers published their book review pages on Thursday.

 

[cpbell]

 

 

In '36 it was obviously a help that Mercedes had a down year, but not such a help to have Dr Porsche's evil swing axle suspension dangling behind a V16 behind him. The natural talent he must have had to tame that is beyond imagining. I've never bought the old cliché peddled by journalists in the thirties and fifties, that he had an advantage because he wasn't used to front engined cars. Firstly, the problem with the Auto Union's handling was not the engine position but the suspension. Secondly, the combination of high initial grip followed by snap oversteer must have called for phenonmenal sensitivity and reactions. Surely that's where he excelled.

 

It wasn't until I read Pomeroy's The Grand Prix Car that I realised that it was that rear suspension design that made the V16 Auto Unions so inclined to enter sudden oversteer - the common idea that it was the driving position seemed unlikely as a cause to me; drivers don't need a change of angle to realise the car is oversteering!

[Tim Murray]

... the common idea that it was the driving position seemed unlikely as a cause to me; drivers don't need a change of angle to realise the car is oversteering!

Absolutely, and yet this theory continued to be put forward by various eminent authorities for many years. It was only when the ground effect cars of the early '80s came along, with the drivers sitting even further forward than in the Auto Union, that this theory stopped being trotted out.

[2F-001]

Thank you for the info on the book, Richard.
16 shillings, eh? I’m guessing that could be about £50 in today’s money.
A initial, but cursory, search suggests that English version might not be so easy to find secondhand either… I wish I hadn’t neglected my German so after schooldays…

Although a contemporary of Johnson and Earhart, Beinhorn has markedly less recognition - possibly because she didn’t disappear or have a known, and tragic, demise?
They must have been the most extraordinary ‘celebrity couple’ of their day; at least the equal of, say, the Beckhams… whilst there wouldn’t have been quite the widespread media overkill we have now, there wasn’t the over-abundance of other ‘celebs’ to be worshipped either.

(Hoping this is not thought to be too far off-topic.)

[kayemod]

Interesting to see the interview with the feisty Elly Beinhorn Rosemeyer you posted, Tim. Have you read the excellent (though less feisty) biography she wrote with Chris Nixon?

 

For anyone with an interest in motor racing that goes back that far, it's an excellent read, highly recommended, as would be expected of any work by Chris Nixon. I bought my copy quite a few years ago, and on examining it for the first time, was pleased to see that it had been signed and numbered by the author, that's Chris of course and not Elly sadly. I was only slightly less pleased later to be told by some know-all that as far as he knew, every copy sold had been autographed by CN and numbered, but surely this can't be true?

 

An aside, some years back, I had the temerity to express an opinion on some current topic on Racing Comments. It was a sensible and I considered well thought out and argued comment that gained a few likes, but one following post said that I clearly wasn't to be taken seriously, as my profile disclosed an admiration for mythical historic figures like Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, and naturally Sir Stirling, I own or have read almost everything published on those legendary figures. This apparently showed that I was around 100 years old, and well past it. I think that this reveals more about some RC frequenters, who probably think that racing as we know it never existed prior to the current over technical and over restricted era, and that Lewis Hamilton is the greatest driver who ever lived, but at least this revelation might amuse a few on TNF.

[2F-001]

Speaking of mythical figures, even Wellington and Marlon in The Perishers were admirers of Nuvolari.

[Tim Murray]

I was only slightly less pleased later to be told by some know-all that as far as he knew, every copy sold had been autographed by CN and numbered, but surely this can't be true?

My copy certainly has no such adornments.

[Vitesse2]

My copy certainly has no such adornments.

Nor does mine. But then mine's the paperback and I guess Rob's is hardback. IIRC those numbered and signed copies were only available from Chater & Scott (as it was then), possibly at a premium - Transport Bookman was their publishing imprint.

 

Pook's (never knowingly underpriced ) are currently offering a near mint signed (but apparently not numbered) hardback 1st edition for a mere £149.99. Or for £100 more you can get a paperback one from a German bookseller - signed by Elly!

 

Thank you for the info on the book, Richard.
16 shillings, eh? I’m guessing that could be about £50 in today’s money.
A initial, but cursory, search suggests that English version might not be so easy to find secondhand either… I wish I hadn’t neglected my German so after schooldays…
 

Yep - 16 bob is somewhere north of 50 quid in today's money.

 

That does put a perspective on how book prices have dropped in real terms though. A slim (ish) volume like that (256 pages) wouldn't be much more than £15 today.

 

I did miss one further library copy, BTW - the National Aerospace Library in Farnborough has one too. Shelved in 'The Archive Room - Handley Page bookcase'.

[Tim Murray]

Nor does mine. But then mine's the paperback and I guess Rob's is hardback. IIRC those numbered and signed copies were only available from Chater & Scott (as it was then), possibly at a premium - Transport Bookman was their publishing imprint.

My unsigned, unnumbered copy is hardbacked. I can't remember definitely, but I suspect it came from Mill House Books.

[kayemod]

My unsigned, unnumbered copy is hardbacked. I can't remember definitely, but I suspect it came from Mill House Books.

 

I bought my signed and numbered hardback first edition Rosemeyer! maybe 30+ years ago in a Bournemouth bookshop, it's mint and wasn't "pre-owned" or secondhand. The price as published was £24.99, I can't remember how much I paid, though it may have been more than that, I've always been extravagant where books are concerned, and the place I acquired it never reduced anything, we're all rich in this area of course...

 

While writing this, a thought struck me. In eager anticipation, I took down my hardback first edition of Chris Nixon's Racing the Silver Arrows, but sadly it's neither signed or numbered.  Is anyone else fortunate enough to have one of these signed copies of  Rosemeyer! ?

[Vitesse2]

I bought my signed and numbered hardback first edition Rosemeyer! maybe 30+ years ago in a Bournemouth bookshop, it's mint and wasn't "pre-owned" or secondhand. The price as published was £24.99, I can't remember how much I paid, though it may have been more than that, I've always been extravagant where books are concerned, and the place I acquired it never reduced anything, we're all rich in this area of course...

If it was Beale's department store or Sidney Wright of Boscombe, I believe they both used to source motoring books from Menoshire, who were the wholesale side of Chaters and far faster and easier to deal with than most publishers in those days. If you talked nicely to/begged/pleaded with Mike or Hector, who ran it, it was amazing what they could 'find' in the basement!

[kayemod]

If it was Beale's department store or Sidney Wright of Boscombe, I believe they both used to source motoring books from Menoshire, who were the wholesale side of Chaters and far faster and easier to deal with than most publishers in those days. If you talked nicely to/begged/pleaded with Mike or Hector, who ran it, it was amazing what they could 'find' in the basement!

 

Agreed, you can't put a price on good personal service.

 

Neither of the two you mentioned, it was a small place in Bourne Avenue near the town hall, which moved to Winton not long afterwards. Beales haven't sold any books for over 20 years, a pity, as their Gervis Place bookshop was quite good. I remember the shop, but I don't think that Sidney Wright's place has survived either. Boscombe is rather run-down these days, not many Bournemouth people go there any more without an armed escort. Apart from discount places like The Works, we don't have much in Bournemouth centre apart from the ubiquitous Waterstone's. We had a large Borders 5 or so years ago, but it's now the inevitable Tesco.

[Tim Murray]

I bought my signed and numbered hardback first edition Rosemeyer! maybe 30+ years ago in a Bournemouth bookshop, it's mint and wasn't "pre-owned" or secondhand. The price as published was £24.99, I can't remember how much I paid ...

Curious - my copy (1st edition, 1986) is marked £29.95 UK net.

[Sterzo]

Do you think that AU was the making of Rosemeyer, or might he have be able to shine in something thought of as a lesser car, as Nuvolari had done? I suspect the latter, but who knows?

 

And one of the great might-have-beens of motor racing is the thought of Rosemeyer and Nuvolari as team mates, both racing the much more civilised 1938 Auto Union.

 

My paperback Rosemeyer biography was signed, not by Chris Nixon, but by my wife "to her dearest darling husband," so it's now worth 30p, but who cares, it's a great book.

 

Message to the hundred year old kayemod about posting in Racing Comments: don't mention Nazzaro. I did, but I think I got away with it.

[Vitesse2]

And one of the great might-have-beens of motor racing is the thought of Rosemeyer and Nuvolari as team mates, both racing the much more civilised 1938 Auto Union.

It's an interesting conjecture, but would that have happened if Bernd hadn't been killed? I know Lurani claimed he'd tested an AU D-type at Avus in early 1938, but he also says it was at the invitation of Dr Porsche, who had of course severed his connections with AU at the end of 1937. And of course the D-types weren't ready until the summer. Ugo Ricordi, AU's Italian agent, certainly approached Tazio informally immediately after the crash, but he rejected that. It was only after the fiery Pau crash that his thoughts turned to abandoning Alfa Corse.

 

http://forums.autosp...05&hl=+nuvolari

[aportinga]

28th January is one of those dates I can never forget.



RIP Bernd, Elly and Professor Porsche

 

Love that pic!

 

On the train to work (Chicago), there is a new Mercedes/Audi dealer and everytime I see that I think - people died for that to never happen!

[cpbell]

 

Message to the hundred year old kayemod about posting in Racing Comments: don't mention Nazzaro. I did, but I think I got away with it.

There might be an interesting competition in this to reference the most obscure GP driver possible in a given Racing Comments thread...

Edited by cpbell, 29 January 2018 - 22:51.

[Vitesse2]

Message to the hundred year old kayemod about posting in Racing Comments: don't mention Nazzaro. I did, but I think I got away with it.

Which one?

[schumi1996]

Hello Everyone!
This is my first post here.
Here is the message I've received from Bernd Rosemeyer Jr.
 Dear Mr. Raducan.

Thank you for your friendly E-Mail.

Gianni is a friend!

 

My father was a exceptional person and an outstanding racing driver, the fastest of them all. I always had a 28 year old father, who was around me during my whole life. I am proud of him (and of my godfather Tazio Nuvolari) everyday in my life. And I am proud, that is name is not forgotten after 80 years! So is my son Bernd 3 and will be my grandson Bernd 4.

 

As you might know I was a friend of Wolfgang Graf Trips and was at that time more in motor sport.  But beeng now a professor in Orthopaedic Surgery and having done a lot of sport medicine is not bad either.

 

Best regards from Florida,( until April).

Yours Bernd Rosemeyer
P.S. I've made a facebook dedicated to Rosemeyer(with a lot of rare photos, digitalised magazines from that time etc)
https://www.facebook.../?ref=bookmarks

Edited by schumi1996, 04 February 2018 - 17:57.

[Roy C]

For anyone with an interest in motor racing that goes back that far, it's an excellent read, highly recommended, as would be expected of any work by Chris Nixon. I bought my copy quite a few years ago, and on examining it for the first time, was pleased to see that it had been signed and numbered by the author, that's Chris of course and not Elly sadly. I was only slightly less pleased later to be told by some know-all that as far as he knew, every copy sold had been autographed by CN and numbered, but surely this can't be true?

Chris Nixon signed many of his books for Chaters. I remember many of the copies of his books on the shelves at their former Isleworth shop were signed (no premium). I also remember him being in Motorbooks and I think he may have signed a book for me there. My paperback of Rosemeyer! is unsigned.

[ensign14]

There might be an interesting competition in this to reference the most obscure GP driver possible in a given Racing Comments thread...

 

The paradox is that the most obscure GP driver possible will in himself become a more interesting GP driver by being obscure.  Which will stop him being the most obscure GP driver possible. 
 

[Sterzo]

Which one?

Sorry, belated answer - mentioned Nazzaro on the RC forum, I think it was in a thread about the top F1 drivers from each country. (On topic? What topic?).

[Vitesse2]

I actually meant 'which Nazzaro' ...

 

This one?

 

 

Or this one?

 

[Sterzo]

^ Ah, Felice definitely, who must go down as one of the greats. I don't think poor Biagio had much of a career, through no fault of his own.

[JoBo]

I actually meant 'which Nazzaro' ...

 

This one?

 

 

Or this one?

 

 

Absolutely fantastic photos!

 

JoBo

[AJB]

I stopped off at the previous location of the memorial on the A5 in 2003. It was touching to see a wreath from Audi there then too.

[Vitesse2]

[Tim Murray]

Thanks Richard for posting that video, and to Herman Liesemeijer for creating it. I’ve always wanted to visit that memorial - I almost made it once but got delayed and had a plane to catch. So that clip almost made me feel I was there. I’d have loved to have been there this morning.

RIP Bernd.

[jj2728]

RIP Bernd. IMHO one of the all time greats.....

[GMACKIE]

Just wish I could have seen him driving the Auto Union. RIP Meister...

[john medley]

And I, GM. 

Regards

JM

[Ray Bell]

One of those for whom I sometimes say...

 

"I was born 30 years too late!"

[Tim Murray]

Hello Everyone!
This is my first post here.
Here is the message I've received from Bernd Rosemeyer Jr.
Dear Mr. Raducan.
Thank you for your friendly E-Mail.
Gianni is a friend!

My father was a exceptional person and an outstanding racing driver, the fastest of them all. I always had a 28 year old father, who was around me during my whole life. I am proud of him (and of my godfather Tazio Nuvolari) everyday in my life. And I am proud, that is name is not forgotten after 80 years! So is my son Bernd 3 and will be my grandson Bernd 4.

As you might know I was a friend of Wolfgang Graf Trips and was at that time more in motor sport. But beeng now a professor in Orthopaedic Surgery and having done a lot of sport medicine is not bad either.

Best regards from Florida,( until April).
Yours Bernd Rosemeyer
P.S. I've made a facebook dedicated to Rosemeyer(with a lot of rare photos, digitalised magazines from that time etc)
https://www.facebook.../?ref=bookmarks

I’ve only just caught up with the fact that Professor Dr Bernd Rosemeyer, son of Bernd and Elly and godson of Tazio Nuvolari, died in May last year.

https://www.gots.org...ernd-rosemeyer/