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Renault R.S.18


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#1301 danstheman

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:57

While I do understand their approach, to try and succeed efficiently without having to spend the biggest bucks, I have to admit that I hope they're not 'cutting corners' where it really matters.

 

I have a somewhat obvious opinion, but money should be spent where the return is worth it.

 

So I agree that spending excessive amounts on certain avenues just to gain that extra thousands of laptime is not sustainable. 

 

But to spend a lot of money on something that can potentially offer more decent gains in laptime is certainly jusified if a team has the means. And that is why not investing in a full test dyno is a bit concerning. I would assume the gains from this can be quite large? If not immediate, then over a long time being able to understand and implement but also adapt concepts.

 

Also, if the budget caps are implemented in the future, it does make sense that a team which has already been geared towards this may benefit more immediately compared to the big teams that have to remove and reallocate resources accordingly. Which could disrupt operations and efficiency.



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#1302 Alburaq

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 13:44

Viry factory, is space-limited too. The factory is old, small (and expensive to maintain). For the hybrid engine era they had to dig a hole... in the parking lot in order to install some new facilities for the single cylinder dynos... But they're expanding the factory. The new building which will be ready late 2019, will increase the total surface by 25% atleast and will help Renault upgrade the old facities, build more test and race engines in situ and speed up the PU developpement.

 

It's in Renault's intesrest to bitch and fight and lobby for cost/budget caps and whatever change that could help them catch the others faster. In the meantime they're spending more than you think. But less than Merc indeed   :p


Edited by Alburaq, 04 December 2018 - 15:03.


#1303 Neno

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 18:12

We changed our name so I wonder will RS19 stay or be just R19


Edited by Neno, 04 December 2018 - 18:13.


#1304 Ivanhoe

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 18:31

We changed our name so I wonder will RS19 stay or be just R19


Or RE19 (tribute to the eighties)

#1305 A3

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 19:11

Or a tribute to the Renault 19. :drunk:

#1306 eREr

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 20:13

We changed our name so I wonder will RS19 stay or be just R19


Back to the past :D

 

renault-f1-team-logo.jpg


Edited by eREr, 04 December 2018 - 20:15.


#1307 StanBarrett2

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 00:13

We changed our name so I wonder will RS19 stay or be just R19

 

 

Or RE19 (tribute to the eighties)

Isn't to be RS19 for the chassis and RE19 for the powerunit ?



#1308 StanBarrett2

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 00:14

Or a tribute to the Renault 19. :drunk:

Poor Dan



#1309 Alburaq

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:25

R19 was a good car, one of the best in that category. It was on par, if not more successful, with the golf in germany sales-wise. That's a good omen; Renault will equal/beat Mercedes in 2019. 
 

1-Viry factory, is space-limited too. The factory is old, small (and expensive to maintain). For the hybrid engine era they had to dig a hole... in the parking lot in order to install some new facilities for the single cylinder dynos... But they're expanding the factory. The new building which will be ready late 2019, will increase the total surface by 25% atleast and will help Renault upgrade the old facities, build more test and race engines in situ and speed up the PU developpement.
 
2-It's in Renault's intesrest to bitch and fight and lobby for cost/budget caps and whatever change that could help them catch the others faster. In the meantime they're spending more than you think. But less than Merc indeed   :p

 
1-That means Renault has compromised the 2018 season and has split the team in two groups, like in the good old winning days, and that a "B" team took the developpement of the 'easier' car in charge while the more experienced staff members work on the real deal  :cat:
 
2-Viry aquired a new dynamic test bench very lately, (and) a "new dynamic test bench that will test and develop the power unit with the gearbox and develop the power unit in the best conditions"

Edited by Alburaq, 05 December 2018 - 09:25.


#1310 ernestomodena

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:59

Does Renault even have a simulator?

Edit: I see they have one build in 2012

Edited by ernestomodena, 05 December 2018 - 08:03.


#1311 Alburaq

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:19

A very good simulator according to Matthew Carter, Lotus CEO in 2014-2015.

#1312 gowebber

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 00:16

Lets see next year if Renault have been hiding away a cracking new engine. Yes it sounds like the usual Cyril spiel but they are certainly not in the same situation as previous years with the upgraded facilities and extra personnel now able to start reaping the benefits for 2019. Guys like Budkowski and Prost are no fools they know what they are doing and lets not forget Cyril is pretty much just the mouthpiece for Renault F1.

 

"Renault boss Cyril Abiteboul says there is no reason why his team should still be lagging behind Mercedes and Ferrari in terms of engine power next year."

 

"Abiteboul believes the gap in performance between Renault's power unit and the class-leading Ferrari and Mercedes engines was over 50bhp in qualifying this year and roughly 25bhp in the race. But the Renault boss says there is no reason why Renault shouldn't close the gap over the winter break and hopes his team will start the 2019 season on an equal footing with the most powerful engines on the grid."

 

"That's why the main focus at first is on engine development. Next year, I don't want to have to say anymore that we lacked too much power in qualifying. There's no reason why we shouldn't close the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari with the engine over the winter. With the chassis it will take a little longer."

 

http://www.espn.com/...errari-mercedes


Edited by gowebber, 07 December 2018 - 01:02.


#1313 Alburaq

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 15:41

I 'know' a guy from another forum who often brings some reliable insider infos about Renault and he says that Renault has anrolled a new recruit who previously worked for "a multiple championship-winning team". He adds that Nick Chester might be replaced (not necessarily by the new recruit as far as I understand).  :stoned: 
   


Edited by Alburaq, 08 December 2018 - 16:17.


#1314 ernestomodena

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 15:47

I 'know' a guy from another forum who often brings some reliable insider infos about Renault and he says that Renault has anrolled a new recruit who previously worked for "a multiple championship winning team". He adds that Nick Chester might be replaced (not necessarily by the new recruit as far as I understand).  :stoned: 
   

 

Well that could also be someone from Williams or Mclaren. Maybe it's even one of there ex employees.



#1315 Alburaq

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 16:15

Actually I'm not sure whether he said "a multiple championship-winning team" or a "three time championship-winning team" ^^'


Edited by Alburaq, 08 December 2018 - 16:16.


#1316 Neno

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 16:23

Well Chester will certainly be replaced if he doesnt deliver top 4 car. And under this mean top 4 car which is on level of top 3 cars. Not second and half off the pace. Because that's the goal. 


Edited by Neno, 08 December 2018 - 16:24.


#1317 gowebber

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 12:03

Interesting McLaren were happy with the Renault PU calling it reliable unlike Red Bull. So two teams were relatively ok reliability wise but Red Bull were not in 2018. Seems to me Red Bull were more the problem for Ricciardo rather than Renault. Hard to see him having more DNF's than 2018. Now Renault just make a more powerful engine and improve that chassis for 2019.

Zak seems to echo Prost's sentiment regarding the 2019 PU.

"McLaren CEO Zak Brown believes that his team will reap the rewards from Red Bull's split with Renault. Red Bull will part ways with Renault next season, bringing an end to its long-standing relationship."

"We have a very good relationship with Renault,” he said. “I got my report on how next year’s power unit is coming along, and it’s very encouraging. They’ve given us a reliable engine this year and so it’s going well. We’re happy with the decision that we’ve made, we’re very happy with Renault.”

https://www.f1today....l-renault-split

Edited by gowebber, 12 December 2018 - 12:46.


#1318 goldenboy

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 22:38

I'm actually much more expecting Renault to improve than previously but I will always take what a partner of any company with a vested interest says with a grain of salt.

#1319 Neno

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 23:04

I'm actually much more expecting Renault to improve than previously but I will always take what a partner of any company with a vested interest says with a grain of salt.

RS18 for me was such a dissapointment because they were promising same thing in 2017 for 2018. I aint falling for this crap again. Believe it when I see it. 



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#1320 gowebber

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 00:36

I'm actually much more expecting Renault to improve than previously but I will always take what a partner of any company with a vested interest says with a grain of salt.

Fair enough but what about Prost saying the same thing pretty much. His integrity and knowledge is first class. I guess we will find out in due course if its hyperbole as usual or not. Also not sure why you would pump up an engine report given to you unless the actual report is exaggerated itself. Just opening yourself up for ridicule really (if its ends up not true) but let see what happens.

RS18 for me was such a dissapointment because they were promising same thing in 2017 for 2018. I aint falling for this ...

Renault are not in the same situation resource or personnel wise as previous years going into 2019 season. It was reported they shifted focus from the RS18 early on and have been working on the 2019 car for quite a while. 2018 I don't think is a true reflection of where they are really at primarily for this reason. The greatly increased changes should hopefully start to reap benefits in 2019.

Edited by gowebber, 13 December 2018 - 03:52.


#1321 goldenboy

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:29

Fair enough but what about Prost saying the same thing pretty much. His integrity and knowledge is first class. I guess we will find out in due course if its hyperbole as usual or not. Also not sure why you would pump up an engine report given to you unless the actual report is exaggerated itself. Just opening yourself up for ridicule really (if its ends up not true) but let see what happens.

Renault are not in the same situation resource or personnel wise as previous years going into 2019 season. It was reported they shifted focus from the RS18 early on and have been working on the 2019 car for quite a while. 2018 I don't think is a true reflection of where they are really at primarily for this reason. The greatly increased changes should hopefully start to reap the benefits in 2019.

"Just opening yourself up for riducule"

Yes they are and yes we do..

#1322 gowebber

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:51

"Just opening yourself up for riducule"

Yes they are and yes we do..


Well hopefully no ridicule needed. Roll on 2019 😃

#1323 A3

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 06:06

chdinbe.png

 

 ;)


Edited by A3, 13 December 2018 - 06:06.


#1324 gowebber

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:01

chdinbe.png

 

 ;)

 

Lol I'd prefer to hope the chances were "better than average"  :lol: 



#1325 gowebber

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 02:19

Really nice insight from Renault F1. Good seeing footage of all the expansion and in particular hearing about the aero building and big wind tunnel related upgrades.

 

 

https://www.renaults...head.html?r=331


Edited by gowebber, 18 December 2018 - 09:10.


#1326 rocque

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:59

Staff at Renault’s works F1 team will work throughout the Christmas and New Year period. 

https://motorsport.n...mas,133501.html


Edited by rocque, 19 December 2018 - 12:01.


#1327 eREr

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 19:42

Lots of kWs were found for 2019 in the PU and it should be in the same ballpark as the leaders according to Brown. Let's see, at least this is promising, but who knows what the others will deliver for 2019.

#1328 Laster

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 20:48

As nice as it would be to see Renault close that engine gap, the other engine manufacturers are always making progress too. So I won't be holding my breath come Australia.



#1329 A3

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 21:35

Same here. If they are competitive, it would be the first time in years that they actually delivered what they promised



#1330 mwf1

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 01:15

http://www.gptoday.c...2019_F1_engine/ I really hope this is the case would be good if their competitive.



#1331 Alburaq

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 08:19

Same here. If they are competitive, it would be the first time in years that they actually delivered what they promised

 

Actually, They delivered exactly what they promised power-wise almost every season, I mean the Viry guys, not CA, and I'm talking about numbers. Even Horner aknowlged that atleast during the 2016, 2017 and 2018 winter testing sessions and sometimes during the season. And Marko and Newey often said during the winters between 2015 and 2018 that Renault "is working hard and should make a good step forward, but let's wait to see what the other competitors will bring" or something along those lines... So the PU improves every year quite a lot, atleast power-wise (except 2015 maybe)... but the problem is, Merc and Ferrari improve atleast as much... that's why the gap remains roughly the same.

 

And the second problem was the dyno-track correlation on the reliability/endurance side.

 

So Viry must obviously up its game, buget-wise too, and evolve faster than the others. 
Otherwise Honda will catch them for real. 
 
So IMO "that number of kilowatts" will be really available on the track in Melbourne. Let's hope it's bigger than usual and much bigger than Mercedes and Ferraris this time, with the 2016 reliability level.
And if Brown says Renault will be in the ballpark, that number must be bigger than 38kw/50hp  :stoned:
Some insiders say Viry was working on the 2019 concept, which is a different concept than the 2017-2018, since 2016.

Edited by Alburaq, 20 December 2018 - 09:34.


#1332 Heyli

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 13:17

The gloves were already off, but I guess Abiteboul just threw them very far out of the window!

 

http://www.tellerrep...B1xyTMMtlV.html



#1333 A3

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 13:19

 

Actually, They delivered exactly what they promised power-wise almost every season, I mean the Viry guys, not CA, and I'm talking about numbers. Even Horner aknowlged that atleast during the 2016, 2017 and 2018 winter testing sessions and sometimes during the season. And Marko and Newey often said during the winters between 2015 and 2018 that Renault "is working hard and should make a good step forward, but let's wait to see what the other competitors will bring" or something along those lines... So the PU improves every year quite a lot, atleast power-wise (except 2015 maybe)... but the problem is, Merc and Ferrari improve atleast as much... that's why the gap remains roughly the same.

 

 

I'm sure you're right. I was talking about the Abiteboul comments of how they would catch up year after year. Should have expressed myself more clearly maybe.



#1334 A3

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 13:23

The gloves were already off, but I guess Abiteboul just threw them very far out of the window!

 

http://www.tellerrep...B1xyTMMtlV.html

 

From the original article at motorsport-magazin.com, translated with Google:


Marko does not want to get involved in such discussions anymore. "We do not need to discuss that at all, because next year we'll see where we stand," said the doctor. "Mr. Abiteboul is to continue his daydreaming, and next year, that's clearly at the table."

:drunk:



#1335 rootten

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 14:47

Well, Honda actually have nerver delivered on their promise. Marko was hyping them up even more. It would be funny to see them fall on their faces once more



#1336 Thatfastguy

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 14:57

Abiteboul making a fool of himself once more. Funny to see how worried he is about Honda.



#1337 Alburaq

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 16:45

If Abitebou is a fool, what about that legendary clown marko and the rescent Honda BS? He wants no discussion? he should shut up and not start one then.

(I'm talking about their 2018 engine and all the stupid hype marko is making about it)


Edited by Alburaq, 20 December 2018 - 16:50.


#1338 Ivanhoe

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 17:04

He would be pretty stupid hyping a sh@t engine, that’s for sure. I don’t think Marko is that stupid, so there must be some data supporting his claims. He never hyped a Renault PU.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 20 December 2018 - 17:05.


#1339 A3

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 19:18

If Abitebou is a fool, what about that legendary clown marko and the rescent Honda BS? He wants no discussion? he should shut up and not start one then.

(I'm talking about their 2018 engine and all the stupid hype marko is making about it)

 

Is it hyping to say they're a bit better than Renault?

 

Even Ericsson joined the hype train. :drunk:


"I think that shows quite a lot that Honda has made great steps forward. I still believe Mercedes and Ferrari are the two strongest power units but then Honda is a lot stronger than they get credit for.

"That was confirmation of when we were racing them."



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#1340 rootten

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 20:47

Is it hyping to say they're a bit better than Renault?

 

Marco said they will challenge for the WDC from the get-go



#1341 rootten

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 21:00

He would be pretty stupid hyping a sh@t engine, that’s for sure. I don’t think Marko is that stupid, so there must be some data supporting his claims. He never hyped a Renault PU.

 

Why? This seems like pretty popular way of legitimizing your actions: see Ron Dennis



#1342 A3

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 21:00

Marco said they will challenge for the WDC from the get-go

 

And he even praised Renault in the same article. Had Max not made the mistakes he made he could have been 2nd in the championship.

Hamilton is hard to beat, but with a better engine Red Bull should be able to challenge for the title. Question is if the numbers he quotes are true. It's all a pissing contest now anyway.

 

I do respect Honda for keeping quiet.



#1343 gowebber

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 05:03

Launch date Feb 12 at Enstone for the 2019 car.

 

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/21053


Edited by gowebber, 21 December 2018 - 05:03.


#1344 Alburaq

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:58

Don't you know Helmut Marko? Obviosuly he's not a fool but he's very prone to say very foolish and/or bitter/aggressive/provocative things, and he's known for that.. H's a bit like Abiteboul, But Marko is the master. He's far worse...

 

He would be pretty stupid hyping a sh@t engine, that’s for sure. I don’t think Marko is that stupid, so there must be some data supporting his claims. He never hyped a Renault PU.

 

The virulent and defensive Marko is hyping Honda as a reaction because many people are (very) skeptical about this partnership and are even laughing about RB... The latter are wrong; RB made a sensible but risky move and this new pair can succeed IMO. 

 

But to say the 2018 Honda is better than the Renault or even equal is one of the best jokes ever. It's non-sense. Maybe the spec 3 could develop more peak power during one or two Q sessions (Which Abiteboul denies, saying they're still 20kw behind) but the whole package (which includes race power, reliability, fuel consumption etc) is nowhere near (and even Gasly suggested that a couple of times).

(And Honda wasn't fairly 'competing' with the others, because the others were managing their 3/4/5 available PUs and trying to make them last 6/7 GPs...)

 

The 2019 Honda is probably better than the 2018 Honda + the 2018 Renault and that's normal, but if you read between the lines, Markos hype is also based on that incredible fact... 


Edited by Alburaq, 21 December 2018 - 12:26.


#1345 Requiem84

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:39

I clicked this thread in the hope to read something about... Renault?

#1346 Neno

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 20:38

Launch date Feb 12 at Enstone for the 2019 car.

 

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/21053

That's week earlier than this year. Possibly likely due team staff not having holidays this year, but who knows.  



#1347 pikamoku

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 06:34

Launch day is just a PR event where you put together 4 wheels, a mock up chasis and some new painting to showroom and please the sponsorship. You well may put the firs iteration of any aero part you produced weeks ago and barely test it the first two days of testing.

 

I just think it is not related.

 

 

On the engine side Mr. CA may be more humble and just praise his people for how hard they are working, how much Renault effort is putting on this project, bla bla bla...

 

I dont take ANYTHING Mr. Marko says seriously, I try to listen more respecfully to Mr. Horner tho, he usually uses language more wisely.

 

IMO  :cat:


Edited by pikamoku, 22 December 2018 - 06:35.


#1348 Ragnar668

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:50

 

 

I do respect Honda for keeping quiet.


https://www.autospor...e-after-mclaren    :lol:



#1349 Alburaq

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 07:42

Renault: the RS 19 will be a big step forward, but the doubts remain on the turbo
 
The 2019 single-seater will be the first to be built on the full potential of the renewed Enstone factory, for which a more competitive chassis should be born. Worries occupy the turbo bearings, because the V6 would have 50 more horsepower!
 
Renault finished 2018 in fourth place in the Constructors' championship with the Enstone team that prevailed on the Haas, the big surprise of the championship that was able to bring the official F1 teams closer to the third year of activity, having the "Ferrarina" .


The French manufacturer will have to make an important leap in 2019, given that the expectations are to review the diamond lozenge to win a Grand Prix: three years have passed since the return to the Circus and the times are "ripe" because after a long sowing , start the harvest period in the fourth season.
The team has been heavily reinforced in every sector, so much so that the team is now closer to that of the top teams with over 800 employees (without the drivers). The RS 19 that is underway will be the first car that will enjoy the modern facilities that have brought the Enstone factory to the forefront, a factory that has never evolved in the Lotus era due to the total lack of fresh capital by Genii Capital.

The plant, after a restructuring that has covered every aspect of the factory, from rebuilding the wind tunnel to get to the CFD or rapid prototyping department, should be able to produce a car capable of challenging, at least in some races, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull.
The company may seem ambitious because in 2018 Renault ranked fourth in the Constructors, but paid a gap of 297 points from Red Bull that the world has finished third in the same engine.
The Milton Keynes team scored 419 points against the 122 of Enstone's team, revealing that there was a real chasm between Renault and Red Bull, without remembering that Mercedes created a gap of 533 points!
Cyril Abiteboul, head of Renault F1, does not want to leap into the void and prefers to talk about getting back on the podium in a hurry, without still aiming for a victory. But the arrival of Daniel Ricciardo as a top driver will have the function of accelerating the plans of transalpine: a success in F1 would be like godsend to mitigate the negative media impact that led to the arrest of President Carlos Ghosn, detained in Japan for administrative offenses against Nissan.
The last Renault victory is dated 2008 GP of Japan with the R28 driven by Fernando Alonso: we are talking about 11 years ago, a geological era in F1. Yet it is questionable why the Australian has decided to leave a team capable of winning, to move to a team that obtained last year a fifth place with Carlos Sainz in Spain and another with Nico Hulkenberg in Germany.
The answer is simple: in addition to the fact that Daniel was saturated with the unbearable climate that lived in Red Bull, Renault drivers had shown him the data at the bench of the power unit 2019. According to rumors is talking about fifty more horsepower that should bring (finally) the French to Mercedes and Ferrari and, in any case, stay ahead of the Honda engine that was adopted, however, to Milton Keynes in place of the criticized Renault.
Ricciardo trusted because the values ​​seen on paper are fair, but what is not clear at all is what the actual reliability of the new unit is. The 6 cylinder, which now has parts made from solid (base and headboards), looks robust. Problems always come from the turbo. Indeed from the bearings of the turbo that do not hold the violent stresses, at least for now.
Renault is dragging on a problem that has been the same for years: it is not a design flaw, but the materials that the other Builders have brilliantly solved over time.
And the "hunt" to Mattia Binotto, dt Ferrari, probably aimed at finding a definitive solution to the troubles of the French unit that, however, in 2018 won four GPs relying on the excellent chassis of the Red Bull RB14 on the tracks where the engine he counted less.
It is easy, therefore, to predict that with fresh engine the Enstone team can take away some satisfaction (podium more than victory), but at the moment it is unthinkable that it can complete the season with just three power units, having not yet achieved adequate reliability , as long as the quadra is not in the winter break and then everything could change.
But until then Abiteboul will have to decide whether to show what could be the potential Renault to challenge at least Red Bull using the power unit at maximum power, regardless of the duration, or if you prefer the long life of the engines by lowering the rotational speed until at the safety threshold for reliability, waiting for the Viry Chatillon technicians to be able to find solutions to problems.
We'll find out about it already during the Barcelona winter tests scheduled in Barcelona. Ricciardo, know it, hangs for the first solution. He's tired of waiting ...

https://it.motorspor...317992/?filters


Edited by Alburaq, 01 January 2019 - 07:58.


#1350 Requiem84

Requiem84
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Posted 01 January 2019 - 07:53

If the engine makes 50hp more but fails a few times, I think Renault would be happy enough for 2019. Would at least make them take the odd podium which would be massive against the big 3.

Good signs ahead.