1367 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Since the other thread is closed



It's not like it ever meant anything for me in this particular case, but I do wonder if there is anything else which needs to be ditched cause some people get offended by the slightest things.

Edited by Marklar, 31 January 2018 - 13:45.

[loki0420]

For now Liberty is fixing things that were never broken. Put schedule change proposal in the same basket. Can they target something that really should be fixed? And not ruin decades long traditions. 

[JHSingo]

Yeah, this won't be controversial at all.

Edited by Risil, 31 January 2018 - 13:56.

[PayasYouRace]

Who’s going to hold the car numbers now?

[Ivanhoe]

They didn't bother me, but won't miss them either. They kind of lacked any added value though, so good decision. Still plenty of promo girls on the grid I suppose.

[Risil]

It's not like it ever meant anything for me in this particular case, but I do wonder if there is anything else which needs to be ditched cause some people get offended by the slightest things.

 

I'm offended by the front wings but you don't see anyone rushing to ban them. But I digress before I've begun.

 

F1 has the right to decide the tone they're going for. It's their circus. I don't think using half-dressed women for tacked-on sex appeal sends a very good message to fans or competitors about what Grand Prix racing should be about, which is the pursuit of speed and excellence whatever your background, beliefs or indeed gender.

 

I suppose glamour is an essential part of the Grand Prix brew as well, but there are better ways of achieving that than rows of uniformed, robotically clapping young women.

[Marklar]

Who’s going to hold the car numbers now?

Finally those test and reserve drivers will be useful 

[johnmhinds]

If they had dropped the grid girls and made no announcement about it I doubt most viewers would have noticed a difference.

[Risil]

Who’s going to hold the car numbers now?

 

I suppose that's a point. Are Liberty going to stop, say, the Force Sexism team from hiring their own models? Or is this just about their own branded bodies?

[Maustinsj]

I can see this thread going the way of the other one...

[Risil]

If they had dropped the grid girls and made no announcement about it I doubt most viewers would have noticed a difference.

 

There's always going to be one poster in the FOM Coverage Thread who posts and theorizes every race about the absence of grid girls from the TV broadcast.

[john winfield]

A good decision, particularly if it includes the silly clapping ritual once the race is over.

 

As regards grid position guides, bring back men in sensible shoes and duffel coats, carrying clipboards. We need more razzamatazz.

[Risil]

A good decision, particularly if it includes the silly clapping ritual once the race is over.
 
As regards grid position guides, bring back men in sensible shoes and duffel coats, carrying clipboards. We need more razzamatazz.

 

 

I think this is a possible defect of Liberty's approach, regardless of what you think about grid girls generally. One of the main reasons F1 has a following is because of the glamour and exoticism and connection with the beautiful escapist world of fantasy. If you are going to take away one avenue to that by sacking the grid girls, it's kinda important to think about what you're going to do to stop F1 from being a duller place that's more remote from dreams and emotions.

[LeClerc]

Seriously, who cares?

[JHSingo]

On a serious note, I am getting more fed-up of people (who usually describe themselves as feminists) lecturing other women about what they can and can't do.

 

Both in the case of the darts and here, the majority of women involved say they love their role, don't feel it is demeaning or unsafe. Yet despite that, they're now not allowed to do something they enjoy. A rather bizarre trend, and a quite hypocritical one, at that.

 

I personally have no strong opinion about this particular issue, just that it's a move that's somewhat hard to understand the logic behind.

Edited by JHSingo, 31 January 2018 - 14:10.

[Kalmake]

Who’s going to hold the car numbers now?

[PiperPa42]

Who’s going to hold the car numbers now?

Does anybody need to? Just make a pole that clips on to the car somewhere. It can be installed and remove by the technicians swarming around the car anyway.

[Knowlesy]

If they had dropped the grid girls and made no announcement about it I doubt most viewers would have noticed a difference.

 

Probably right. Most people will go "oh, when did they disappear?" and move on with life, probably thinking they were pointless anyways.

 

But we should never underestimate the sheer force of personality of those who fight against all perceived PC bias. The war never ends for those people (in their heads).

[Fastcake]

As I said in the other thread, the decision to drop grid girls had already been made. The only real decision Liberty had to make was whether or not to ditch them before Australia, or let them hang on a bit longer and do it when no one was watching. Obviously, they felt doing it publicly was the better option, which will generate a minor outcry but some may credit them for openness.

Expect most other motorsport series to follow over the next few years.

[Risil]

On a serious note, I am getting more fed-up of people (who usually describe themselves as feminists) lecturing other women about what they can and can't do.
 
Both in the case of the darts and here, the majority of women involved say they love their role, don't feel it is demeaning or unsafe. Yet despite that, they're now not allowed to do something they enjoy. A rather bizarre trend, and a quite hypocritical one, at that.

 

I think the people you're fed up with are more concerned with the overall message it sends out to competitors and viewers, not the labour conditions of the grid girls per se.

 

Any performance contains and promotes its own set of values or virtues. Everyone who performs in the F1 circus is saying, in part, "This is what people like me are for". On that basis, what kind of message do grid girls embody?

[BuddyHolly]

2018 is looking so good huh?

 

Formula Halo

No grid girls

 

What next I wonder?  overtaking banned as it's dangerous?   50 mph track speed limit? 

[Knowlesy]

2018 is looking so good huh?

 

Formula Halo

No grid girls

 

What next I wonder?  overtaking banned as it's dangerous?   50 mph track speed limit? 

 

Yes, that is the logical conclusion to make.

[TheRacingElf]

The world has gone mad...bloody so-called "liberals"

[OvDrone]

I wholeheartedly endorse this. It was all completely pointless.

[Anja]

A good decision, particularly if it includes the silly clapping ritual once the race is over.

 

That was always the worst bit for me - so very awkward and ridiculous.

[Lotusse7en]

Shame on Bernie and FOM for forcing those girls to do this horrendously terrible job 

 

It was slave driving , I'm telling you ! 

Anxiously awaiting Dorna to follow suit 

[Vielleicht]

Well I have been over the arguments for/against this many times over in the other thread so I won't be going into that here.

 

One of the things that came out of the other thread is that at the end of the day this is F1's decision to make over how they wish to present themselves in a modern climate. We can either like that or dislike that but that's how it is. Personally I think this is a move for the better, but it's not the only possible solution.

[as65p]

As for the issue itself, I don't care. The only thing I care about, why "fix" that while there are a bunch of real issues waiting to be adressed.

[john winfield]

 

I think this is a possible defect of Liberty's approach, regardless of what you think about grid girls generally. One of the main reasons F1 has a following is because of the glamour and exoticism and connection with the beautiful escapist world of fantasy. If you are going to take away one avenue to that by sacking the grid girls, it's kinda important to think about what you're going to do to stop F1 from being a duller place that's more remote from dreams and emotions.

 

If we really do need an alternative to grid girls, then we don't have to fall back on clichéd ideas of 'glamour'. Or men in duffelcoats. Team mascots perhaps. Retired drivers. Or give visiting celebrities something useful to do.

[JHSingo]

I think the people you're fed up with are more concerned with the overall message it sends out to competitors and viewers, not the labour conditions of the grid girls per se.

 

Any performance contains and promotes its own set of values or virtues. Everyone who performs in the F1 circus is saying, in part, "This is what people like me are for". On that basis, what kind of message do grid girls embody?

 

I get what you mean, although I don't subscribe to the idea that if a young girl sees a grid girl they think that's the only role open for them in F1 or motorsport in general. Of course it isn't - you have to be pretty foolish to believe that. While still being male dominated, F1 has had more prominent females in the paddock than it has done in quite some time. People like Claire Williams, Monisha Kaltenborn, Susie Wolff, Ruth Buscombe - not to mention the many (excellent) F1 reporters and journalists such as Lee McKenzie. Maybe it's my age, but when I think back to the late 90s or early 2000s F1, I'd struggle to name a single one.

If women do feel that being a grid girl is the only role available to them, then perhaps you can argue F1 and motorsport in general hasn't done a good enough job of promoting those people I previously mentioned.

[Knowlesy]

As for the issue itself, I don't care. The only thing I care about, why "fix" that while there are a bunch of real issues waiting to be adressed.

Perhaps multiple things can be worked on at the same time and the simple fixes are quicker?

[Neno]

If F1 wasnt dead. Now it is. 

[Burai]

2018 is looking so good huh?

 

Formula Halo

No grid girls

 

What next I wonder?  overtaking banned as it's dangerous?   50 mph track speed limit? 

 

Maybe you could get those straw men to hold up the boards this season.

[Anja]

If F1 wasnt dead. Now it is. 

 

And the award for biggest overreaction goes to... 

 

(unless that was sarcasm I didn't catch)

[Sterzo]

Seriously, who cares?

I would answer you if I could be bothered.

[SenorSjon]

2018 is looking so good huh?

 

Formula Halo

No grid girls

 

What next I wonder?  overtaking banned as it's dangerous?   50 mph track speed limit? 

 

They are trying to get the nice things out of F1 ASAP. Logo's, grid girls, logic and add things like the halo.

 

I wonder, do teams have their own models travelling around? 

 

 

MotoGP is looking more handsome by the minute. More of a men's sport than F1 these years/decades.

[PlatenGlass]

Does anybody need to? Just make a pole that clips on to the car somewhere. It can be installed and remove by the technicians swarming around the car anyway.

Do we even need a stick with the car number on at all?

[OvDrone]

If F1 wasnt dead. Now it is. 

 

Oh the overdrama. Get a grip.

[Nonesuch]

F1 wasn't "using" grid girls, the organisers hired and paid them.
 
Anyway, due to tuning in late and tuning out before the McLarens drag themselves over the finish line, I haven't seen any F1 grid girls in years - but I still welcome the FOM's decision to decide what is "appropriate" for me as a viewer. And who knows, maybe in another 50 years FOM will get around to questioning how "appropriate" it is to line up to sing along with the anthems of at least half a dozen dubious host nations.

[Risil]

I get what you mean, although I don't subscribe to the idea that if a young girl sees a grid girl they think that's the only role open for them in F1 or motorsport in general. Of course it isn't - you have to be pretty foolish to believe that. While still being male dominated, F1 has had more prominent females in the paddock than it has done in quite some time. People like Claire Williams, Monisha Kaltenborn, Susie Wolff, Ruth Buscombe - not to mention the many (excellent) F1 reporters and journalists such as Lee McKenzie. Maybe it's my age, but when I think back to the late 90s or early 2000s F1, I'd struggle to name a single one.

If women do feel that being a grid girl is the only role available to them, then perhaps you can argue F1 and motorsport in general hasn't done a good enough job of promoting those people I previously mentioned.

 

It's fantastic that there are people like Claire Williams, Susie Wolff, Ruth Buscombe, Lee McKenzie occupying important roles in motorsport (dunno about Kaltenborn). There are things to celebrate. And no doubt if you are a female fan, they are things to cherish and hold onto.

 

But, have you ever tried to enjoy something that you're half attracted to, but half alienated and disgusted by? Might you not suspect that if you spoke to another F1 fan, or worked in an F1 team, that the alienating and disgusting part of the sport was the part that they enjoy the most?

[SenorSjon]

F1 wasn't "using" grid girls, the organisers hired and paid them.
 
Anyway, due to tuning in late and tuning out before the McLarens drag themselves over the finish line, I haven't seen any F1 grid girls in years - but I still welcome the FOM's decision to decide what is "appropriate" for me as a viewer. And who knows, maybe in another 50 years FOM will get around to questioning how "appropriate" it is to line up to sing along with the anthems of at least half a dozen dubious host nations.

 

Nice find! That akward thing started with the Bianchi memorial (good) and continued with the Putin GP (bad).

Edited by SenorSjon, 31 January 2018 - 14:40.

[B Squared]

It seems odd that, at least in many areas of the US press, women have the total freedom of choice as to what to do with their bodies as long as it meets one of the favorite feminist causes, yet women must be protected if they choose to use that same body to model in any type of setting that isn't approved by the same (in many instances) group(s).

As far as the terrible clapping after an event by grid girls...really? I clapped for and applauded each driver that passed by me when I worked for CART as a corner worker as I stood next to the tarmac after a race. Hell, I do the same now from the comfort of my favorite chair at home. Come to think of it, I applaud after concerts, speeches, presentations....some of you may get the point. I call it respect and a natural reaction.

[B Squared]

And the award for biggest overreaction goes to...

Formula 1

[Myrvold]

If we really do need an alternative to grid girls, then we don't have to fall back on clichéd ideas of 'glamour'. Or men in duffelcoats. Team mascots perhaps. Retired drivers. Or give visiting celebrities something useful to do.

 

Young karting drivers from the country that have the race. Let them stand there in their racesuits etc. It will probably be one of the biggest days in their young lives, and will without doubt fuel their dream of getting to F1.

Edited by Myrvold, 31 January 2018 - 14:48.

[JHSingo]

MotoGP is looking more handsome by the minute. More of a men's sport than F1 these years/decades.

 

Incidentally, MotoGP's grid girls are usually far more provocatively dressed than their F1 counterparts. You only have to think about the Monster Energy girls, for instance. I wonder how much longer they will be around for. There was this story from last year: https://www.motorspo...d-girls-904105/

[Ben1445]

It seems odd that, at least in many areas of the US press, women have the total freedom of choice as to what to do with their bodies as long as it meets one of the favorite feminist causes, yet women must be protected if they choose to use that same body to model in any type of setting that isn't approved by the same (in many instances) group(s).

As far as the terrible clapping after an event by grid girls...really? I clapped for and applauded each driver that passed by me when I worked for CART as a corner worker as I stood next to the tarmac after a race. Hell, I do the same now from the comfort of my favorite chair at home. Come to think of it, I applaud after concerts, speeches, presentations....some of you may get the point. I call it respect and a natural reaction.

Well if they're being paid to stand there and clap in corporate colours it somewhat loses it's sincerity. Even if a few (or even most) of them genuinely are applauding. 

[Knowlesy]

Young karting drivers from the country that have the race. Let them stand there in their racesuits etc. It will probably be one of the biggest days in their young lives, and will without doubt fuel their dream of getting to F1.

Just youngsters and fans generally.

Imagine getting to stand on the grid with your hero.

[Timstr11]

Good news.
Will help to improve the image of F1.

To have 'young pretty women' displayed at a sport event, simply to satisfy the appetite of the heterosexual male gaze has always been odd and non-inclusive in my eyes.

Edited by Timstr11, 31 January 2018 - 14:58.

[B Squared]

Well if they're being paid to stand there and clap in corporate colours it somewhat loses it's sincerity. Even if a few (or even most) of them genuinely are applauding.

And who gets the job to be sincerity judges?

[Risil]

As far as the terrible clapping after an event by grid girls...really? I clapped for and applauded each driver that passed by me when I worked for CART as a corner worker as I stood next to the tarmac after a race. Hell, I do the same now from the comfort of my favorite chair at home. Come to think of it, I applaud after concerts, speeches, presentations....some of you may get the point. I call it respect and a natural reaction.

 

Oh, absolutely winners and competitors are worthy of applause. Did they make you wear a skin-tight uniform and stand in a row like an erotic guard of honour though?