42 replies to this topic

[nexfast]

I definitely have no wish to discuss the current issue of grid girls being taken out of the 2018 GPs. There are two threads in RC available for those who want to join the debate. However, reading those threads one word that comes often from those who are favourable to keep the grid girls is tradition. That made me wonder when the said tradition started in GPs. A search in YouTube and in several books was inconclusive. I found no evidence of them until the seventies but because of copyright issues it is difficult to have access to images post-1982, so I can't say whether or not they appeared in the eighties. The relevant sentence from Liberty communique is not exactly precise: "While the practice of employing grid girls has been a staple of Formula 1 Grands Prix for decades...".

 

Outside F1, by the way, the oldest image I found was of Shell publicity girls at the start of the 12 hours of Ypres in 1969.

 

Any ideas?

[E1pix]

I've heard 1968, but am not sure.

[john winfield]

Yes, those RC threads are lively aren't they?! 

 

Not grid girls as such, but John Player promotional girls, in identical clothes, were very noticeable at the 1974 British Grand Prix, perhaps 1973 as well. In 1974 they stood in front of the assembling grid, and joined the Tyrrell team on the lap of honour.

[Charlieman]

It has always been about sad boys.

 

And it will always be out them.

 

Sad Ferrari lads waiting for DSJ to take them to an opera? Why persecute them more?

[john winfield]

A deep, thoughtful analysis Charlie. Are you midway through a C20th French philosophy course?  Talking of which, the Reims 'Champagne girls' appear in lots of photos in the 1950s, but usually at the winner's presentation. Not sure if they ventured on to the track.

 

 

Whenever the first grid girls (in modern F1 terms) were 'used', I'm very glad that their role is coming to an end, particularly the forced clapping routine after the finish.

[E1pix]

This is already swaying against the grain of the opening sentence.

A quick Google search turns up nothing, not sure where I read "1968," but sounds about right.

[john winfield]

You're right EP. I can only apologise.

 

But it is difficult to discuss the matter without considering what 'grid girls' represent.

[nexfast]

  Talking of which, the Reims 'Champagne girls' appear in lots of photos in the 1950s, but usually at the winner's presentation. Not sure if they ventured on to the track.

 

 

 

Yes, and there are also plenty of photos of "miss Whatever" kissing winners but I was looking more to the practice of being in the grid with the car number or the driver's name.

[nexfast]

This is already swaying against the grain of the opening sentence.

A quick Google search turns up nothing, not sure where I read "1968," but sounds about right.

 

That was also my original thinking making the link to Gold Leaf and the appearance of commercial sponsorship in the cars. Problem is I cannot find a picture to confirm the thought and I can see quite a few images of starts after 68 where the grid girls are absent from the starting line.

[john winfield]

Yes, and there are also plenty of photos of "miss Whatever" kissing winners but I was looking more to the practice of being in the grid with the car number or the driver's name.

Understood nex. But I was also trying to remember when business concerns started to promote their goods at motor races, using teams of attractive young women. The 1974 John Player girls almost qualify as grid girls but perhaps someone else can answer your specific question.

 

Edit. Re: your Gold Leaf thoughts...I can't find any evidence of Gold Leaf girls 1968-71, and can't even find any JPS girls in 1972. 1973, low key?  1974...high profile.

Edited by john winfield, 01 February 2018 - 18:27.

[Vitesse2]

Apart from an isolated 1968 reference to the aforementioned 'Gold Leaf Grid Girls' at a Silverstone clubbie, the first time the exact phrase 'grid girls' occurs in Motor Sport is in 2005. However, that's in a review of the first three DVDs in a set called 'Golden Age of Motor Sport', produced by an Australian company called Through the Gears. And here's the quote:

 

... the Aussies have always had better grid girls than the rest of the planet.

As far as I can tell, those DVDs end in the late 1960s.

[Charlieman]

A deep, thoughtful analysis Charlie. Are you midway through a C20th French philosophy course?

 I just mean that it is bloody awful. The way that some men talk to women. And how men congregate without regard to women.

[SophieB]

My non expert answer is I somehow don't remember them being much of a thing being Briatore got involved in F1. Did he make more use of them? (I gave up trying to find a non innuendo way of putting that, sorry)

[Tim Murray]

ISTR the Dagenham Girl Pipers (or similar) doing their stuff at meetings (not necessarily GPs) in the 1960s. Do they count?

[AJCee]

For those with a suitable library, have a look at the photo from Interlagos on p73 of the 1979-80 Autocourse.
How times have changed for the better.

[B Squared]

I just mean that it is bloody awful. The way that some men talk to women. And how men congregate without regard to women.

It's a two-way street; don't act naïve. Not all women are pure little delicate flowers and virgineers.

Edited by B Squared, 01 February 2018 - 19:59.

[john winfield]

ISTR the Dagenham Girl Pipers (or similar) doing their stuff at meetings (not necessarily GPs) in the 1960s. Do they count?

 

Trust you to lower the tone.

 

Source, wiki:

In an essay by Douglas Adams published in The Salmon of Doubt, Adams described the Dagenham Girl Pipers as his "dream lover", writing "With all due respect and love to my dear wife, there are some things that, however loving or tender your wife may be, only a large pipe band can give you."^[10]

[BRG]

When did those Hawaiian Tropic girls first appear at Le Mans etc?  Mid-70s.

[E1pix]

Yes, and one wonders if the origins of grid girls was solely corporate, as in the Marlboro girls during the Hunt era.

(and the prior, aforementioned JPS girls over a decade earlier)

[nexfast]

I found in YouTube images of of the Monaco GP 1973 where some drivers are accompanied in the pits by what the person who put there the images calls "grid girls 1970's style". 

 

My take is that girls promoting sponsors started to appear in races (F1 and otherwise) in a systematic way in the seventies. When exactly someone had the idea of putting them in front of the cars in the grid remains a mystery so far.

[DogEarred]

I seem to remember that the motor cycle racing fraternity used these ladies quite a lot & in lot less state of dress.

 

I also remember that the motor cycle & racing magazines were full of photos of such ladies.

 

(I only bought them for the crossword.....)

[Doug Nye]

Interestingly I have just turned up a couple of photos of the cars being wheeled to the Italian GP starting grid at Monza in the 1930s - male drivers strolling to the line alongside their cars, which were being pushed by male mechanics, with male standard bearers holding aloft military-style flags as escort.  Here was a macho demonstration of an entirely virile sport, a masculine prelude to a wheel-to-wheel mechanical duel between Men.  It was reflective - of course - of a Fascist Italy pretty much fixated upon promoting and re-asserting National strength, daring and virility...of course in the image of the posturing Alpha-male Il Duce himself.

 

Well all of that infantile 'goose-stepping' malarkey - that over-compensation for deep-rooted nationalistic and personal insecurity - was left in tatters, in my view the right place for it, come 1945.

 

National pride was still reflected in pre-race parades and preparations through the 1950s into the '60s, and in promotional terms it was surely entirely understandable that onlooker man should have been perfectly happy when organisers began hiring a bevy of female beauties to brighten their day by being featured as part of the programme on track.  Forget gender equality - here was a friendly, attractive, warming, good-fun, essentially harmless celebration of what makes the world go round...  In the US there was the plastic attraction of the race queen - who in some famous cases eventually doubled as one of the podium-placemen's perks (for want of a better expression).  I recall attractively uniformed 'grid girls' at Guards Trophy Brands Hatch meetings in the mid-to-later 1960s - and at Spring Grove Laundry saloon car rounds come to that...and - I think - at Player's No 6 autocross meetings too???? 

 

The current craze for some kind of precious, mob-appeasing protestations of effective asexuality - putting some really pleasant, bright and decent girls out of paying employment which most of them really relished - and all in the name of political rectitude - really, really sickens me.  (But to be honest, I would have been far more repelled by the 1930s machismo forerunner)... 

 

DCN

[Ray Bell]

But don't you agree, Doug?

Putting those girls out there on the grid, attired in a way to show off their curves best, was good for the married men in the crowd?

After all, if they had their wives with them, how would they ever get a chance at a hit-and-swerve without spousal disapproval if it wasn't dished up this way.

And of incident, readers of Mike Argetsinger's Watkins Glen book will find that each year there was a kiss for the winner, and many of those years it was one of Cameron's daughters who was delegated for that task.

Good for Cameron (and presumably Jean), good for us!




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 02 February 2018 - 00:57.

[E1pix]

My girlfriend pointed out cute girls at our first race together.

 

So I married her.     

 

Such insecurities of feeling threatened by any "can't do" situation speaks volumes about proper spouse-picking.

[GazChed]

Given that the Goodwood Revival meetings strive to faithfully recreate the Goodwood meetings of yore , did they not have Grid Girls in the fifties and sixties ?

[john aston]

The Revival may be a lovely day out but , competing marques  apart , it has two parts of bugger all to do with period racing .

 

Grid Girls ? Some old gadger in a mac and flat cap more like 

 

Reassuringly expensive glasses of champagne and fine dining ? A glass of  stale bitter and a dog burger, if you were lucky

 

Perfectly prepared cars? Hardly - lots of dented and unreliable , not to say fire prone walking wounded crates 30 seconds off the pace

 

Hygienic toilets? In your dreams- some malodorous pit sheltered by ex RAF tarpaulin - if you were in luck

 

Cigars for the winners ? An Embassy tipped cadged off your mate - but at least they not only lit them but inhaled too  

 

 Safety cars ? Safety what ?

 

Mind you it only cost five bob to get in and some self important git didn't refuse you entry to the paddock because sir wasn't wearing fancy dress ...

[Doug Nye]

He does - in some cases - have a point...    

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

And, courtesy of DCN and the Revs Library ...

 

Gilmore Speedway, 1930s:

 

 

http://library.revsi...d/210407/rec/26

 

Sebring 12 Hours, 1962:

 

 

http://library.revsi...id/160541/rec/3

 

Apropos of nothing, it occured to me that the Gold Leaf Grid Girls will all now be drawing their pensions.

[Ray Bell]

If the smokes didn't get them...

[philippe7]

The ladies pictured at Sebring are cheerleaders, not grid girls .... a totally different prospect

 

We had some troops of those parading before the start of the Le Mans 24 hours as early as the 60's I think. They are called "majorettes" in french.

[john winfield]

They are called "majorettes" in french.

 

We've stolen that word and use it in english too, Philippe. There is a UK Federation of Majorettes and Baton Twirlers!

[Tim Murray]

My understanding is that the word originated in the US as ‘drum majorette’, a feminisation of the military rank of drum major. ‘Bachelorette’ evolved similarly.

[Michael Ferner]

"... smiling at the majorettes, smoking Winston cigarettes..."

[ensign14]

My non expert answer is I somehow don't remember them being much of a thing being Briatore got involved in F1. Did he make more use of them? (I gave up trying to find a non innuendo way of putting that, sorry)

 

They were definitely a thing before Briatore.  Grand Prix International used to have loads of shots of them from the early eighties.  And let's not forget Senna's love Adriana Galisteu was representing Shell in 1993.

 

[SophieB]

They were definitely a thing before Briatore.  Grand Prix International used to have loads of shots of them from the early eighties.  And let's not forget Senna's love Adriana Galisteu was representing Shell in 1993.

I didn't forget her, in fact I considered exactly her, but didn't they meet at a sponsor event rather than on the grid? I could check if I could find her awesome book at home but I seem to have misplaced it.

[blackmme]

They were definitely a thing before Briatore. Grand Prix International used to have loads of shots of them from the early eighties. And let's not forget Senna's love Adriana Galisteu was representing Shell in 1993.

Yep GPI featured them quite comprehensively in its ‘Post Card From’ section.
I got my first issue in 81. I seem to remember a compilation book being produced!

Regards Mike

Edited by blackmme, 04 February 2018 - 10:22.

[WOT]

Apart from an isolated 1968 reference to the aforementioned 'Gold Leaf Grid Girls' at a Silverstone clubbie, the first time the exact phrase 'grid girls' occurs in Motor Sport is in 2005. However, that's in a review of the first three DVDs in a set called 'Golden Age of Motor Sport', produced by an Australian company called Through the Gears. And here's the quote:

Quote

 

... the Aussies have always had better grid girls than the rest of the planet.

 

As far as I can tell, those DVDs end in the late 1960s.

 

 

 

 

 

No grid girls in Aus (Warwick Farm) in 1969....

 

 

[Jim Thurman]

And, courtesy of DCN and the Revs Library ...

 

Gilmore Speedway, 1930s:

http://library.revsi...d/210407/rec/26

 

Sebring 12 Hours, 1962:

 

http://library.revsi...id/160541/rec/3

 

 

Neither of these fit "grid girls". The Gilmore midget photo is a PR shot away from the track, while the photo from Sebring is of drum majorettes in front of a (not seen) marching band.

 

U.S. racing long had "trophy girls", presenting a trophy to the winner, even leading to the short event in U.S. oval racing for the fastest cars, the "trophy dash." But, again, nothing like "grid girls."

 

I once ran across an item from the late 1920s, where movie star Marie Prevost was to present the trophy in a big post-race celebration at a theater, but apparently she was a no-show.

[Ray Bell]

I remember grid girls at Oran Park, but not before the seventies. I don't think...

There may have been at Sandown at some time, more likely in the eighties.

Other Australian circuits where they may have been used are Surfers and Calder, but I'm not counting where a team may have had a couple of girls which accompanied their car to the grid in scanty attire as 'grid girls'.

They have been used at Bathurst at the start of the big race, I'm sure, but not until at least the eighties.

[Phil Rainford]

In 1974 at the British Grand Prix if I recall the John Player Girls were amongst the group of people that were amassed at the exit of the pit lane and prevented Lauda re-joining when he made a last minute stop due to a puncture

 

He was later awarded fifth place

[427MkIV]

Japanese model and singer Rosa Ogawa, now 71, is cited as the first ever grid girl, appearing at races back in the 1960s to promote various brands 

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz56FRa07Tu
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[opplock]

I've just seen reports that grid girls will be replaced by "grid kids". Does that mean that Northants police must be on hand to ensure everyone going out on the British GP grid has passed a DBS check?  

 

I did check, it is not 1st April. 

[Charlieman]

I've just seen reports that grid girls will be replaced by "grid kids". Does that mean that Northants police must be on hand to ensure everyone going out on the British GP grid has passed a DBS check?  

 

I did check, it is not 1st April. 

One might ask whether police may have been present in crowd control at Goodwood, when the lads and lasses raced their J40s.

 

One assumes common sense.