17 replies to this topic

[Bob Riebe]

Mac's garage has a video of the 1969 Donnybrooke Trans-Am.

The lead picture is shows two Firebirds but I went to the supposed Ultimate history site and they list only one Pontiac Trans-Am in the race.

Now I watched the video but did not listen to the audio so I do not know what the audio says.

The reason I checked was I did not see Lloyd Ruby's Camaro in the video and I was sure he was there, which Ultimate confirms.

I went back and looked at the video more closely and did see Ruby's Camaro but did not see the second Pontiac.

Now I was at that race but that was long time ago.

Where did the second Pontiac come from?

[D28]

Mac's garage has a video of the 1969 Donnybrooke Trans-Am.

The lead picture is shows two Firebirds but I went to the supposed Ultimate history site and they list only one Pontiac Trans-Am in the race.

Now I watched the video but did not listen to the audio so I do not know what the audio says.

The reason I checked was I did not see Lloyd Ruby's Camaro in the video and I was sure he was there, which Ultimate confirms.

I went back and looked at the video more closely and did see Ruby's Camaro but did not see the second Pontiac.

Now I was at that race but that was long time ago.

Where did the second Pontiac come from?

I see your problem. Did you check this site  http://www.racingspo...1969-06-22.html

 

This is the following race and T-G Racing has Pontiacs for Jerry Titus and Milt Minter. Perhaps you can tell from the numbers if it matches the video car. Other races  have some Pontiacs listed with numbers. Good luck.

[E1pix]

Good job D, I see there's three other Firebirds also listed as being at Bridgehampton -- to serve as deepeners of the mystery.

Edited by E1pix, 08 February 2018 - 05:30.

[Bob Riebe]

Thank you D achtundzwanzig.

OK, I have solved one problem, that picture is not from Donnybrooke.

Those are deciduous oak trees in the back ground and Donnybrooke is flat as a prime board surrounded evergreens and scrubby decidous.

I see that Rusty Jowett's real name is Wilton Jowett; wonder why he did not go by Wilton, or Willy.

I should have looked more closely.

Does anyone know which track that is?

I am guessing that the odd Pontiac is the 1968 car Titus drove in some races such as Daytona.

Even racing sports cars does not have most grids but they do for Donnybrooke.

Now I fully regret having given away my AutoWeek and Comp. Press rags. I could have found out the info in a few minutes.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 07 February 2018 - 19:28.

[E1pix]

A link would be Supah. :-)

[group7]

BR, thanks for the link to that video, I didn't see the lead photo, I watched the video but see only one Firebird as the grid moves off. That race was the thinnest Trans-Am field for some time, only nineteen cars started.

Here is a link to coverage of the Donnybrooke race  from the Camaro site, beginning at the bottom of page four, going onto five. Jon Mello put a lot of effort into compiling all of this. It has write up on the race from Autoweek, and shows the grid and finishers, there is a link to a video which doesn't work any longer, it might have been the same one you posted ?

I believe the Titus Firebird was a'69 body, with a '68 front clip, The team had lots of problems trying to get engines homolgated, in the '68 season the SCCA allowed  the Godsall (who was Canadian) Firebirds to run chevy Z/28 engines because Canadian Firebirds had Chevrolet V-8s.. Not so in '69  SCCA told Titus they could use a Pontiac 400 destroked to 303, but then reversed the decision, this put the whole program behind.

I got a lot of information from the Vintage Motorsport series on the Trans-Am by Rich Taylor, and a number of books and magazines I have.

 

http://www.camaros.o...a&topic=9860.45

 

Mike, in Canada

[Bob Riebe]

https://macsmotorcit...oke/#more-59597

A link would be Supah. :-)

 

Mike I am old and memory has become selective but in the picture, Jerry's white car is a sixty nine but the car in front looks to be a sixty eight although beyond the grill there would be few differences except in sixty-nine a Trans-Am Firebird existed.

I believe , from Memory,    both Titus team cars were white and blue and that seems to have the dark top the car Titus drove in sixty-eight had.

I forget who owned that car but I do not think it was Titus' team at that time.

 

Was Pete Hamiton driving Lloyd Ruby's Camaro at the Daytona race?

Now I forgot whose car Lloyd drove, he did it because he liked road racing but I do remember it was Candy Apple Red.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 07 February 2018 - 23:19.

[racinggeek]

It seems y'all have established this pretty well, but Dave Friedman's Trans-Am history book agrees that Titus had the only Firebird at Donnybrooke in '69. However, Dick Brown and Milt Minter ran Firebirds in a number of T-A races that year. The photo on Mac's page, wherever it's from, obviously doesn't give a good look at the non-Titus 'Bird, but it's yellow and some sort of black/dark blue, Scroll down almost to the bottom of this page on the Camaros site and there's a color photo of Minter and Brown together on the Michigan International banking during the '69 T-A race there. Maybe the stray Firebird is one of them?

[E1pix]

 The photo on Mac's page, wherever it's from...

Assuming you mean "the video of Mac's from Donnybrooke" is from that track, without question.

 

Edit: And Thanks for posting the link, Bob! Great stuff, too!

Edited by E1pix, 08 February 2018 - 00:23.

[group7]

Thanks for the feedback to Bob Riebe's post from E1pix...racinggeek & D28. I see that photo from the opening page now    It was used six time on the program covers that year ('69) appearing first time on the program from Mid-Ohio (June 8th),  Lime Rock (May 30th.) the previous race was hot and dry. The race before that Michigan (May 11th.) was cold and wet. So I would guess that photo is from Michigan, I don't know the track layout well enough to say for certain. Link to the programs from the '69 season here 

 

  http://www.progcover...ransam1969.html

 

That  program covers site is fantastic.

 

Mike.

Edited by group7, 08 February 2018 - 01:09.

[group7]

Here is a link to coverage of the '69 Michigan Trans-Am race from the Camaro site, starting at the bottom of the page two, and continuing on page three. There were six Firebirds in that race.

 

http://www.camaros.o...7&topic=9860.15

 

Mike

Edited by group7, 08 February 2018 - 01:20.

[racinggeek]

Assuming you mean "the video of Mac's from Donnybrooke" is from that track, without question.

Edit: And Thanks for posting the link, Bob! Great stuff, too!

[racinggeek]

I did mean "photo." As noted, there's a photo at the top of the webpage that holds the video on Mac's site, and we've figured that photo is not from Donnybrooke. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Edited by racinggeek, 08 February 2018 - 05:09.

[E1pix]

Oh Geez, I missed a pretty big boat there, Sorry!

Thanks for the feedback to Bob Riebe's post from E1pix...racinggeek & D28. I see that photo from the opening page now It was used six time on the program covers that year ('69) appearing first time on the program from Mid-Ohio (June 8th), Lime Rock (May 30th.) the previous race was hot and dry. The race before that Michigan (May 11th.) was cold and wet. So I would guess that photo is from Michigan, I don't know the track layout well enough to say for certain. Link to the programs from the '69 season here

http://www.progcover...ransam1969.html

That program covers site is fantastic.

Mike.

Yeah Mike, Thanks for bringing the Program Covers site up, it's amazing!

Yeah, interesting, the first race program for Michigan is illustrated, the second race used a photo from Michigan, and the third looks just like the left-hander before the Carousel at Mid-Ohio. The photo's used on many '68 programs as you said, but also in '69.

I think Michigan's road course passed to the outside of the oval if I'm right, so that could well be at MIS.

Maybe it *was* at Mid-Ohio and shot on the Wednesday before, for example? Not impossible to run the program covers last and deliver the programs on Saturday morning.

Edited by E1pix, 08 February 2018 - 05:45.

[oldtransamdriver]

I raced at an SCCA event at MIS in 69 and also the 71 T/A race.  Both times we used the outside road course.  I'm not sure

when that course was discontinued.  I believe the infield course is being used now.

 

Robert

Edited by oldtransamdriver, 08 February 2018 - 18:25.

[E1pix]

We need you, Robert!

 

Do you think this third program cover photos down, for Mid-Ohio, could be at the exterior MIS track?:

http://www.progcover...ransam1969.html

 

The image enlarges as you enlarge the window.

 

Edit: And now that I view this on my laptop, image is definitely NOT Mid-Ohio as I'd thought it might be...

Edited by E1pix, 08 February 2018 - 20:30.

[oldtransamdriver]

A friend, who has collected all but 4 of the original  66-72 Tran-Am series programs, says the cover photo

is from MIS.  J. Mello, moderator of the Trans-Am Camaros thread (Camaro Research Group) agrees.

 

Robert

[E1pix]

Thanks for solving the mystery, Robert!