38 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

I'm delighted to see that Keith Greene seems still to be with us.

He would be just about 80 years old by now but I'm wondering if anyone would have the slightest clue as to his whereabouts?

I have questions connected with the Gilby F.1 cars that he may be able to answer, or is there anyone on this forum who knows about them?

[Richard Jenkins]

Barry, I'll send you an email re. KG.

[Barry Boor]

Richard, my e-mail address is a hotmail one. If you have Lineone or Tiscali they are no longer operative.

Edited by Barry Boor, 11 February 2018 - 19:37.

[Gregor Marshall]

Hi Barry.
Keith is still with us and still very much with it and as mad as ever.
I keep in touch with him through his wife (was a very good friend of my late Mum and also had the challenge of being my Dad's secretary at Marshall Wingfield in the '70s), as she is the one in charge of email and Facebook.
If you want to email me, I'll happily forward it to Fiona for Keith to look at.

[GMiranda]

Hello

 

Anybody has more details about Keith Greene's career, please? I know he was a driver for Gilby Engineering, at that is quite easy to trace. However, after ending his career as a driver, he was a renowned team manager and, apart the "Lunch with" feature with him and Chris Craft, it's extremely difficult to trace all his posts behind the box.

[Richard Jenkins]

Try Scherer's British Grand Prix drivers book if you have access to it? If not let me know

[GMiranda]

Try Scherer's British Grand Prix drivers book if you have access to it? If not let me know

 

Many Thanks!!!! No, I haven't that book, sadly. Obviously I'd glad to expand my collection but money is needed for that

[Paul Taylor]

We should try to get some kind of interview with Keith Greene. Even if his story was short, it would be interesting. Perhaps some people who know him could encourage him to talk about the Gilby days etc?

[Richard Jenkins]

Okay I'll scan it tonight.

[Richard Jenkins]

Paul, I did try last year to interview Keith but... its a long story.

[GMiranda]

We should try to get some kind of interview with Keith Greene. Even if his story was short, it would be interesting. Perhaps some people who know him could encourage him to talk about the Gilby days etc?

 

I fully support it, and also about his days as team manager. After al, he worked with great teams.

[GMiranda]

Okay I'll scan it tonight.

 

Many Thanks!!!

[cooper997]

GMiranda, The Nov/Dec 1958 BARC Gazette has a 'On the way up' feature about Keith.

 

If of interest I will try to photograph and post here or can email if you like. PM your email if so.

 

Stephen

[Clyde Peffar]

KG is one of the most private people that I have had the privilege know over many decades, his results as a driver particularly in sportscars at Goodwood and elsewhere should put him on a high level. Something,not related to motorsport, set him apart for me.Many years ago I adopted a very damaged greyhound, she didn't take to strangers.We were in the car going somewhere and KG was sat in the back with this dog and very quickly an obvious bond was established which lasted years. I know and KG won't talk about it but his bond with his drivers, particularly Role R, was very strong. His driving record and his managerial record are exemplary...my type of racer. Enough said.

[GMiranda]

I barely knew him apart odd F1 drives until I picked my Motor Sports and read his "Lunch with", alongside Chris Craft; and the article about Rondeau team, as he played team manager for the French squad.

It would be interesting here to share the experiences about him, and also, if someone has those data, in which teams he worked on.

 

Best Regards

[Clyde Peffar]

Off the top of my head and not in chronological orders as  a manager: Agusta Racing (Callaway Corvette),Renault (BTCC),GP Motorsport (C2 Spice),Nissan (C1), Nissan March(C!), John Fitzpatrick Racing (956) Richard Lloyd Racing (956) Gordon Spice (Capris/Ford c100) De Cadenet (Le Mans) Rondeau (Le Mans) Courage (Le Mans) Alan Mann Racing, IRTS,Brabham,Hexagon of Highgate (Brabham). This is by no means a definitive list.....As a driver an even longer one...

 

 

Forgot Dome (Le Mans),SARD Toyota (JC) .....Keith San was/is a bit of a legend in Japan

Edited by Clyde Peffar, 22 June 2019 - 14:32.

[GMiranda]

Off the top of my head and not in chronological orders as  a manager: Agusta Racing (Callaway Corvette),Renault (BTCC),GP Motorsport (C2 Spice),Nissan (C1), Nissan March(C!), John Fitzpatrick Racing (956) Richard Lloyd Racing (956) Gordon Spice (Capris/Ford c100) De Cadenet (Le Mans) Rondeau (Le Mans) Courage (Le Mans) Alan Mann Racing, IRTS,Brabham,Hexagon of Highgate (Brabham). This is by no means a definitive list.....As a driver an even longer one...

 

 

Forgot Dome (Le Mans),SARD Toyota (JC) .....Keith San was/is a bit of a legend in Japan

 

Wowww the list is even bigger than I expected. Those days at Dome were probably extremely interesting, one of the biggest troubles for the first Japanese teams to arrive in Europe was the cucltural shock. It's amazing to see who worked with them. For example, I don't know if any European worked with Maki or Kojima.

[Clyde Peffar]

Whats probably more remarkable is KG isn't a Japanese speaker on a technical level as far as I can remember but he grew up with Italian mechanics when Gilby had the Maseratis and learned to communicate with them.  The Dome episode at LM is interesting, that first car was slippery  as a rat up a pipe but very narrow track and tricky.

 

That list of teams is very incomplete, there are many more to add to it. For years I've tried to get KG to write his biog, he is a hilarious raconteur, but he always has something else going on that interest him.

[GMiranda]

Whats probably more remarkable is KG isn't a Japanese speaker on a technical level as far as I can remember but he grew up with Italian mechanics when Gilby had the Maseratis and learned to communicate with them.  The Dome episode at LM is interesting, that first car was slippery  as a rat up a pipe but very narrow track and tricky.

 

That list of teams is very incomplete, there are many more to add to it. For years I've tried to get KG to write his biog, he is a hilarious raconteur, but he always has something else going on that interest him.

 

Yes, a biography would be marvellous.

In fact, it should have been difficult to communicate with the first wave of Japanese teams, somehow they managed to understand each other. At least Masao Ono speaks English quite well. Dome never had much funding for its operation, and they were mainly builders for some manufacturer.

[RCH]

One thing that has not been mentioned was that he spent a while selling motorsport memorabilia. He had a stall next to me at the Autosport show one year. Both he and his wife were a delight to talk to and generally laugh with. 

[Clyde Peffar]

Yes he did  the Autosport show and  I think may have had a web site at the time possibly called Racing Greene . We have always had a good laugh, KG  and Fiona are always fun. I watched a GP with him a year or two ago and wished I had filmed him to say he was involved is an understatement.

[GMiranda]

May I kindly ask if someone with more experiece can halp me to do a summary of Keith Greene's career. I am in touch with him and we'll discuss his career as a team manager, so I am tryng to  congirm where and when he worked after his retirement from racing in 1963, please.

The summary I have, based mainly on Motor Sport magazine articles and some research is this:

- Alan Mann Racing (BSCC, ETCC, WEC);

- Broadspeed (BSCC);

- Brabham (F1, F2);

- Ecurie Evergreen (WEC, F1, ...)

- Crowne Racing (GT, 2L European Championship)

- Hexagon Racing (F1)

- Gordon Spice Racing (24h Spa, ETCC, BSCC, Le Mans)

- Rondeau (Le Mans)

- Dome (WEC)

- Ford (WEC)

- John FitzPatrick Racing (WEC)

- Richard Lloyd Racing (WEC)

- GP Motorsport (WEC)

- Nissan (WEC)

- SARD Toyota (WEC, JSPC)

- Vic Lee Racing (BTCC)

- Renault Dealer Team (BTCC)

- Courage (24h Le Mans)

- Callaway Corvette/Rocky Agusta (IMSA, USSRC ??);

[SamoanAttorney]

Agusta Racing competed in BPR from the first race in '94, Rocky's investment in '93 in developing the Venturi 500 LM was a key element in the revival of GT Racing in Europe.

 

I am sure that I recall Keith being involved with another team after that....perhaps in Mangoletsi Land.........will have to stimulate the little grey cells.............I do remember him being a great bloke who was very funny and very generous with his time to those in the shadows like myself.

 

Malcolm Cracknell's recent factional account of the 1997 Le Mans 24 Hours, Taking the World by Storm, has a few inside stories of the Nissan 85-86 campaigns at Le Mans that feature Keith prominently..........you could not make that stuff up.

 

Long may he prosper.

[guiporsche]

I might be wrong (as I don't have the book next to me now), but I seem to recall that in Mike Lawrence's March book the few pages on that hilarious Nissan effort had some tidbits from Keith Greene. It might be worth a check anyway, if only for a laugh.

Edited by guiporsche, 02 December 2019 - 09:49.

[Sterzo]

The stories In Mike Lawrence's book are actually direct quotes from James Gresham, though they do feature Keith Greene, and are essentially about the culture clash between March (racers) and Nissan (big corporation). And yes, they are very funny, and are worth reading for anyone researching Keith Greene's career.

 

Keith Greene won't know (or care), but I spent part of my teens, when I should have been chasing girls, hand carving a model of the Gilby-Climax with Greene aboard.

[SamoanAttorney]

The stories In Mike Lawrence's book are actually direct quotes from James Gresham, though they do feature Keith Greene, and are essentially about the culture clash between March (racers) and Nissan (big corporation). And yes, they are very funny, and are worth reading for anyone researching Keith Greene's career.

 

Keith Greene won't know (or care), but I spent part of my teens, when I should have been chasing girls, hand carving a model of the Gilby-Climax with Greene aboard.

 

The tales in Cracknell's book came from James Weaver, another talented, funny guy.

[BillClarke]

Hi Barry - I worked with Keith at Hexagon of Highate - feel free to email me at whmc@me.com as i have info on his location. Bill Clarke

[Giraffe]

I hear this morning from Barrie Smith that Keith Greene has passed away. RIP.

 

...so soon after his old pal, Chris Craft....https://www.motorspo...ene-chris-craft

Edited by Giraffe, 10 March 2021 - 12:20.

[john winfield]

Oh, that's very sad. Thanks for the update, Giraffe.

[GMiranda]

Yes, I received the news yesterday, but out of respect to the family and the racing community's elder members, I waited for someone from within to announce. I was in touch with Keith for some time, and it was a shock.

[Doug Nye]

I too had heard, but held off.  Now this from the BRDC:

 

With great regret we have to inform Members that Life Member Keith Greene suffered a fatal cardiac arrest last Monday 7 March. He was 83 years of age and was one of the longest-serving Members of the BRDC, having been originally elected in 1959. Although he progressed to Formula 1 as a driver, it was for his expertise as a team manager at the highest level that Keith became best known in later years.

 

Keith’s father Sydney Greene, through his company Gilby Engineering Ltd, had been a successful entrant of a Frazer-Nash Le Mans Replica, with which Stirling Moss won the 1951 BRDC British Empire Trophy in the Isle of Man, and subsequently a Formula 1 Maserati 250F and Maserati A6GCS sports car with which Roy Salvadori enjoyed considerable success in the mid-1950s. It was no surprise therefore that Keith grew up infused with the passion for the sport which his father had but which was compromised as far as Syd was concerned by the loss of his left arm in his teens when a bus collided with his bicycle although he still competed until, in those pre-karting days, Keith was old enough to race cars.

 

Keith’s first car was a Cooper-Climax T39 ‘Manxtail’ in 1955 with which he enjoyed increasing success over the next few years including his first victory which came in a Goodwood Novices Handicap in early 1956. The following year Keith also had his first taste of single-seater racing, in the Gilby Maserati 250F no less, bringing the car home in fourth place in a formule libre race at Snetterton behind Archie Scott-Brown’s Lister-Jaguar and the Formula 2 Cooper-Climaxes of Brian Naylor and George Wicken. Most of his racing in 1957 was centred on Goodwood where his good results earned him runner up status in the prestigious Motor Sport Brooklands Memorial Trophy to Lotus Eleven driver Innes Ireland.

 

For 1958 Keith switched to a Lotus Eleven and continued to go well in the very competitive arena of 1100 cc sports car racing, taking wins at Goodwood, Snetterton and Brands Hatch. After a season-long battle he again finished second in the Motor Sport Brooklands Memorial Trophy. Winner of the Trophy in 1959 was the late Michael Taylor, also with a Lotus Eleven, with whom Keith shared his car in the RAC Tourist Trophy at Goodwood, the final round of the World Sports Car Championship, to finish 10th overall and second in the 1100 cc class. Keith had already tasted world championship sports car racing earlier in the year when sharing David Piper’s Lotus Eleven to 15th place and fifth in the 1100 cc class in the Nurburgring 1000 Kms.

 

The Eleven was replaced for 1959 by the latest Lotus offering, the Type 17, designed by Len Terry. Up against the new Lola-Climax Mk 1, the 17 struggled with Keith’s version tending to be the best of the non-Lolas. An early season trip to the Gran Premio di Napoli at Posillipo was rewarded with third place behind the OSCAs of Giulio Cabianca and ‘Wal Ever’ (Walter Breviglieri). A month later Keith returned to the ‘Ring to share David Piper’s Lotus Type 15 before he headed for Le Mans where he shared a Team Lotus 750 cc Coventry-Climax-engined Type 17 with works driver Alan Stacey. Midway through they were running rings round the French opposition in the very valuable Index of Performance only for a distributor fault to cause loss of water and overheating which led to retirement of what proved to be the fastest ever 750 cc-engined car seen at La Sarthe.

 

Single-seaters also beckoned for 1959 when Gilby Engineering acquired a 1500 cc Formula 2 Cooper-Climax T43, another car which started its career in Keith’s hands very promisingly when he finished sixth overall and second in the F2 class of the strongly-supported Aintree 200. First and second were the Ferrari Dino 246s of Jean Behra and Tony Brooks while best of the F2s was Keith’s good friend Michael Taylor. When Keith returned to the Liverpool circuit for the British Grand Prix in July armed with a 2.5 litre Coventry Climax engine in his Cooper, he unfortunately failed to qualify. Another good result came at the short-lived Whitchurch airfield circuit near Bristol where Keith finished second to the similar car of Henry (no relation of Michael) Taylor. A 2.5 litre Cooper-Maserati T45 was a not particularly successful attempt to make a mark in Formula 1, second place in a national race at Snetterton to the similarly-powered Cooper of Brian Naylor being the best result.

 

Continuing the two-car strategy, Syd Greene commissioned Len Terry to design a Climax-powered sports-racing car to take on the Lola Mk 1s which usually prevailed although the Gilby Mk 1 as it was known won at Brands Hatch at the end of the season in Keith’s hands. Keith’s season with the Gilby Mk 1 was only briefly disrupted by a major accident at the May Daily Express BRDC meeting at Silverstone when he crashed heavily on the opening lap at Abbey from which he emerged relatively unscathed with just minor cuts and a headache. This did not deter Keith from racing the following weekend in the Nurburgring 1000 Ks with Doug Graham in the latter’s Lotus Type 15 with which they finished 18th from 67 starters. The Gilby was soon back in action achieving success in the hands of rising Formula Junior star Peter Arundell when Keith was racing elsewhere.

 

The advent of the 1.5 litre Formula 1 for 1961 presented many privateers with the opportunity to  tackle the top single-seater category, many in Cooper chassis but some, Gilby Engineering being one, opting to build their own cars. Once again Len Terry was the designer but the engine was the inevitable 4-cylinder Coverntry-Climax FPF unit.  During a test session at Goodwood Bruce McLaren tried the car and lapped within a tenth of the lap record for the class. Without the resources to tackle a full F1 world championship season, Keith raced the Gilby principally in British events including the British Grand Prix in which he finished 15th with a best result of 4th in the Lewis-Evans Trophy, a late-season national F1 race at Brands Hatch, and a win in a formule libre event at Snetterton. The one venture overseas, to the tiny circuit at Roskilde for the Danish Grand Prix, produced a sixth place on aggregate across three heats. During the year Keith also tried his hand at some GT racing both with a Lotus Elite and a Porsche Carrera 356B with mixed results.

 

With the writing on the wall for the 4-cylinder F1 cars in 1962, Syd Greene agreed with BRM to supply one of its new V8 engines which was installed in a revised version of the same Len Terry-designed chassis. However, the engine took time to arrive and the car was not ready until the German Grand Prix in August so that Keith started the season still with four cylinders behind him. In fact the results in non-championship races were good with three fourth places in succession at Bruxelles, Snetterton and Goodwood against quality opposition followed by third place at Naples (shades of 1959) behind the works Ferrari Dino 156s of Willy Mairesse and Lorenzo Bandini but ahead of a mixed bag of privateers. The BRM venture was not a success, at least as far as Keith was concerned. He reckoned that the V8 engine was certainly no match for the factory cars and probably no better than his 4-cylinder Climax unit. The car retired from the German Grand Prix, struggled to the finish but many laps behind in the Mediterranean Grand Prix at Enna-Pergusa, and failed to qualify for the Italian Grand Prix. The car was then sold to Formula Junior privateer Ian Raby who achieved a few finishes during the 1963 season, the best of which by far was third place in the Gran Premio di Roma at Vallelunga, albeit against a less than formidable entry.

 

With his Formula 1 aspirations abandoned, Keith reverted to sports car racing for 1963 and acquired a new Lotus 23B, a car which was proving so popular that Lotus could not turn them out fast enough. The Normand team cars of Mike Beckwith and Tony Hegbourne, joined on occasion by none other than Jim Clark, and Frank Gardner’s Ian Walker Racing Brabham BT5, provided the main opposition but Keith was regularly ‘best of the rest’ in a confidence-boosting campaign after the Formula 1 disappointments and frustrations. It was also in 1963 that Keith was invited by Dick Jacobs to join his team of MG Midgets, usually for the longer races where two drivers were required for each car. This arrangement continued into 1964 with a best result of sixth overall and third in the 1300cc GT class in the Nurburgring 500 ks sharing with Alan Foster. The same overall result was achieved the following year in a Donald Healey-entered Austin-Healey Sebring Sprite with Clive Baker. Sharing Bob Ellice’s Uptune Lotus Elan 26R in the 1966 Brands Hatch 500 miles, Keith finished fifth while the following year he was invited to co-drive the late Chris Barber’s Lotus 47 with John Hine in the Nurburgring 1000 Ks and the Brands Hatch 6 Hours although the car retired on both occasions.

 

As Keith’s career as a driver wound down, he still remained very much involved in the motor racing industry. As Competitions Manager for Armstrong shock absorbers, used by the majority of F1 cars in the mid 1960s, he attended most Grands Prix before joining Alan Mann Racing as team manager for Frank Gardner’s Ford Falcon which won the British Saloon Car championship in 1967. From there Keith moved to Broadspeed where his old friend from schooldays Chris Craft was one of the drivers. Second overall and a 1300 cc class win was the reward in 1969. Whilst at Broadspeed Keith oversaw the installation of a Cosworth DFV engine in Alain de Cadenet’s Ecurie Evergreen McLaren M8C. In 1971 he ran wealthy American David Weir’s Ferrari 512M to 4th place at Le Mans with Chris as the lead driver.

 

Over the years which followed Keith became one of the most highly regarded team managers in the business. In 1972 he was asked by Bernie Ecclestone to manage his newly-acquired Brabham Formula 1 team with Graham Hill, Carlos Reutemann and Wilson Fittipaldi as the drivers before moving over to run the Hexagon of Highgate Brabhams driven by John Watson. The list of teams for which he worked subsequently contains many of the best known names in endurance racing: Spice, Rondeau, Richard Lloyd Racing, Nissan, Toyota and of course Alain de Cadenet’s Ecurie Evergreen. Later there was a move back to the BTCC with Vic Lee Motorsport in Tim Harvey’s championship-winning year (1992) and the Renault Dealer Team with Alain Menu as driver. Keith’s experience as a driver himself coupled with his training as an engineer enabled him to see and deal with situations from various angles.

 

Until he chose to retire to the Isle of Wight where he sailed, Keith was always in demand to bring his skills and experience to various aspects of the sport in which he had been steeped from childhood thanks to his father’s passion. An entertaining raconteur, Keith always had something amusing, interesting and pertinent to say about the sport. It is a supreme irony, so sad for their many friends that Keith has passed away just 17 days after his lifelong mate Chris Craft. To his wife Fiona, his family and many friends the BRDC offers its deepest condolences. 

 

As do I.  Keith and Chris Craft really were great mates. 

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 10 March 2021 - 13:35.

[Gary C]

Very sad to hear this. RIP Keith.

[Richard Jenkins]

Guilherme, firstly, thanks for holding off out of respect until the official announcement. I had heard yesterday also.

 

I'd been in touch with Keith quite frequently through Barrie S since 2017 and at one stage I was going to visit him on the Isle of Wight to do a long interview for WATN. Then Keith fell poorly - nothing too serious but a little protracted - and it was postponed. Then I was too busy with the Ginther book and then of course, we had the pandemic. But we swapped emails regardless. (I was also going to do the same with Chris but he'd just been diagnosed with dementia and didn't, naturally want to go ahead).

 

Keith was a very engaging man, very proud of his dad and of his own numerous achievements in the sport. But it was a real shame the book never happened - as per Fiona: "He still loves conversing about the old racing days but isn't necessarily so good at putting pen to paper which is why he has never written a book despite being asked many times"

 

But that is a small loss to us compared to Fiona's immense loss. To her, I can only offer my deepest condolences.

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 10 March 2021 - 21:06.

[GMiranda]

Guilherme, firstly, thanks for holding off out of respect until the official announcement. I had heard yesterday also.

 

I'd been in touch with Keith quite frequently  through Barrie S since 2017 and at one stage I was going to visit him on the Isle of Wight to do a long interview for WATN. Then Keith fell poorly - nothing too serious but a little protracted - and it was postponed. Then I was too busy with the Ginther book and then of course, we had the pandemic. But we swapped emails regardless. (I was also going to do the same with Chris but he'd just been diagnosed with dementia and didn't, naturally want to go ahead).

 

Keith was a very engaging man, very proud of his dad and of his numerous achievements in the sport. But it was a real shame the book never happened - as per Fiona: "He still loves conversing about the old racing days but isn't necessarily so good at putting pen to paper which is why he has never written a book despite being asked many times"

 

But that is a small loss to us compared to Fiona's immense loss. To her, I can only offer my deepest condolences.

 

There's nothing to be thankful for, I just did what was right. It was extremely sad.

[ensign14]

 

The attractive Gilby, looking as if it had a rather neat crease from the windscreen to the chassis.

[sstiel]

Guilherme, firstly, thanks for holding off out of respect until the official announcement. I had heard yesterday also.

 

I'd been in touch with Keith quite frequently  through Barrie S since 2017 and at one stage I was going to visit him on the Isle of Wight to do a long interview for WATN. Then Keith fell poorly - nothing too serious but a little protracted - and it was postponed. Then I was too busy with the Ginther book and then of course, we had the pandemic. But we swapped emails regardless. (I was also going to do the same with Chris but he'd just been diagnosed with dementia and didn't, naturally want to go ahead).

 

Keith was a very engaging man, very proud of his dad and of his numerous achievements in the sport. But it was a real shame the book never happened - as per Fiona: "He still loves conversing about the old racing days but isn't necessarily so good at putting pen to paper which is why he has never written a book despite being asked many times"

 

But that is a small loss to us compared to Fiona's immense loss. To her, I can only offer my deepest condolences.

Sorry for not knowing Richard. What is WATN?

Sincere condolences to the Gilbert family. Remarkable achievements by father and son. Joe Saward wrote about Syd Greene here: https://joesaward.wo...ting-f1-fact87/

[JacnGille]

Sad news.

[Michael Ferner]

WATN on ORC: Where are they now? « OldRacingCars.com

[sstiel]

WATN on ORC: Where are they now? « OldRacingCars.com

Thank you. Allen Brown, Richard and others have done a fantastic job with that site.