136 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Motorsport.com understands Martini discussed an extension with Williams as well as speaking to other teams about an alternative arrangement.

But it is believed the board of the Bacardi Group, of which Martini belongs, decided to stop diverting resources to F1 entirely as it no longer aligned with its strategic objectives.

When asked to comment, deputy team principal Claire Williams told Motorsport.com: "We have discussed extending beyond 2018.

"While we would both like to do so, the Bacardi Group have told us that they will step away entirely from Formula 1 when our contract expires at the end of this year.

"They have many brands to support and obviously their strategic priorities evolve over time."

https://www.motorspo...impression=true

[ArrowsLivery]

Sponsors are running away from F1 due to its move to cable TV and streaming.

[OSX]

A damn shame. I gather the introduction of the Halo was a tad too much for the image conscious Bacardi Group honchos...

[SwedeForceOne]

Ouch, very bad news for Williams, come 2019 and they'll likely be the new (old) Sauber.

[teejay]

Damn.

[jannyg]

Sponsors still not getting the returns from F1 advertisement. Damn

[SenorSjon]

Who is actually surprised? F1 is bleeding spectators like crazy, the glamour part (grid girls for instance) is rapidly being abolished and the sport now has a 3M logo. And yet people still wonder why sponsors unrelated to cars leave? The McLaren looks just bare now for instance. Martini is a bit of a glamourisch brand if you watch their commercials. Not really fitting with youngster and extra safety cages.

 

The only high-roller entering was Heineken and they chose a generic sponsorship package with FOM instead of a team (just like Rolex, DHL and others).

Edited by SenorSjon, 27 February 2018 - 08:40.

[Dutchrudder]

They'd put Williams back on a stable footing. Wonder where they go from here, were one of the few teams with a true title sponsor in the old sense.

[Henri Greuter]

They'd put Williams back on a stable footing. Wonder where they go from here, were one of the few teams with a true title sponsor in the old sense.

 

 

Daddy Stroll ´s still there ......

(and Lance as well for that matter.....)

 

 

Besides that, over those past years I still felt the Williams cars to be exposing  awfully large area´s of white, so Either martini got a lousy exposure for their money or the amount of money wasn´t so much as believed...

 

Henri

[dau]

It's obviously not good, but seriously guys, it's not the first time a sponsor leaves F1.

[Nonesuch]

It's obviously not good, but seriously guys, it's not the first time a sponsor leaves F1.

 

While true, if we take the 'who has the best looking 2018 car' thread as a guide:

 

Ferrari: no airbox sponsor, no rear wing sponsor.

Haas: just about no main sponsor logos.

McLaren: just about no main sponsor logos.

Mercedes: Petronas... otherwise mostly just Mercedes.

Red Bull: Red Bull and a bit of Aston Martin.

Red Bull 2: Red Bull.

Alfa Romeo Sauber: mostly just Alfa Romeo.

Williams: Martini and Rexona.

 

It's not looking good.

 

But somehow they can still afford it, I guess. So whatever works for them.

[Disgrace]

Who is actually surprised? F1 is bleeding spectators like crazy, the glamour part (grid girls for instance) is rapidly being abolished and the sport now has a 3M logo. And yet people still wonder why sponsors unrelated to cars leave? The McLaren looks just bare now for instance. Martini is a bit of a glamourisch brand if you watch their commercials. Not really fitting with youngster and extra safety cages.

 

The only high-roller entering was Heineken and they chose a generic sponsorship package with FOM instead of a team (just like Rolex, DHL and others).

 

Sponsors are not leaving over the logo change, for crying out loud.

[Knowlesy]

People are desperate to attribute any bad thing to the halo and logo. 

 

"Mid-grid team has to change sponsor again" sounds less exciting I suppose.

Edited by Knowlesy, 27 February 2018 - 09:05.

[SenorSjon]

Nice to only snip one bit of it and ignore the rest...

[TecnoRacing]

Well, Williams have made their bed with Stroll and Sirotkin, and now they'll have to lie in it...tanking your identity and brand value for quick cash has it's costs I guess   

Hopefully Martini will crop up with another team in another capacity when the time is right...

[PlayboyRacer]

It's obviously not good, but seriously guys, it's not the first time a sponsor leaves F1.

Not sure if you've noticed but quite a few have left in recent times. They aren't being replaced either.... Santander blowing off Ferrari and F1 in favour of Champions League football was a major alarm bell IMO. McLaren can't attract a major backer and cars all over the grid are bare.

 

The sport is heading towards a major identity crisis, alienating fans and major backers are finding far better value elsewhere. It's a serious problem.

[KWSN - DSM]

Cost cap imposing itself on F1 through money not being there.

 

[Burtros]

Nice to only snip one bit of it and ignore the rest...

 

Well they are not leaving over grid girls either, so by only picking one of your incorrect points he was doing you a favour.....

 

Pay TV, **** racing, predictable stale results, declining viewership, reduction in exposure due to Pay TV, uneven revenue distribution are more likely the main causes. 

Edited by Burtros, 27 February 2018 - 09:13.

[Pumpkinz]

I'm sure the Age of their current Drivers didn't help with negotiations. Aren't they both to Young to advertise Martini?

[Knowlesy]

Sponsors are running away from F1 due to its move to cable TV and streaming.

This is probably the main issue really.

What the series really has to do is get back to 'free' TV, or at least be accessible at a sensible price.

But on top of that the sport needs to be cheaper (and fairer) so that major sponsorship loss isn't quite so damaging.

[SenorSjon]

Just like I mentioned. 

 

Martini is branded as a glamour brand. Removing the glamour from F1 isn't helping their sponsorship goals.

[Disgrace]

Nice to only snip one bit of it and ignore the rest...

 

The culture war blah blah isn't very interesting. And I'm willing to bet a company whose revenue runs presumably in the billions aren't that interested either.

[Massa_f1]

Shame, but kind of expected to be honest. Hopefully its not the last of the big full engine cover sponsors in the sport. Hate to see large free space on them. Even if there is 2 or 3 smaller positioned sponsors elsewhere. Ferrari being a current example.

[PlayboyRacer]

Just like I mentioned. 

 

Martini is branded as a glamour brand. Removing the glamour from F1 isn't helping their sponsorship goals.

It's only grid girls that are gone right? I assume teams/sponsors can still have promo girls at race weekends?

 

You do wonder where we'd be if Dietrich decided he was done.... I shudder to think.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 27 February 2018 - 09:26.

[ArrowsLivery]

Well, Williams have made their bed with Stroll and Sirotkin, and now they'll have to lie in it...tanking your identity and brand value for quick cash has it's costs I guess
Hopefully Martini will crop up with another team in another capacity when the time is right...

Good point. It is not possible to market their sad paydrivers. Nobody wants their brand to be associated with that.

[johnmhinds]

Is it Martini running away from F1 or them just not getting enough promotion out of a lacklustre Williams with two drivers that can’t really be used in Martini advertising because nobody outside of F1 knows who they are?

Edited by johnmhinds, 27 February 2018 - 09:27.

[Knowlesy]

The culture war blah blah isn't very interesting. And I'm willing to bet a company whose revenue runs presumably in the billions aren't that interested either.

Yeah. I highly doubt Martini marketing is run by scared old men who worry about political correctness and 'elf and safety and other such nebulous things.

 

I am willing to bet they looked at the dwindling viewers, the team they back slowly creeping backwards, the lack of household name drivers in their stable and thought "it's been a good five years, but we'll call it a day thanks".

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt they took the decision on the basis of a few gripes over non-issues that people won't be discussing this time next year. 

Edited by Knowlesy, 27 February 2018 - 09:31.

[OSX]

Sponsors are not leaving over the logo change, for crying out loud.

Of course they're not. Not knowingly anyway but who can really tell how much of an effect the new limp and watered-down F1 logo with it's loud and clear subliminal message of "This is not the F1 we all used to love" has on the unconscious mind…

[Rinehart]

Not sure if you've noticed but quite a few have left in recent times. They aren't being replaced either.... Santander blowing off Ferrari and F1 in favour of Champions League football was a major alarm bell IMO. McLaren can't attract a major backer and cars all over the grid are bare.

 

The sport is heading towards a major identity crisis, alienating fans and major backers are finding far better value elsewhere. It's a serious problem.

It's not an identity crisis, its a cost crisis. F1 is far too expensive. That is the root cause of all the problems from return on investment to on track competitiveness and entertainment. If teams were able to compete on $50m a year, they wouldn't need to target anything like the sponsorship income they do now and so title sponsorship would drop to a quarter of its current rate card and the ROI on that would suddenly be interesting and brands would come flooding back. Brands aren't currently avoiding F1 because of an identity crisis, they're avoiding because there is no business case. Same for potential new teams/manufacturers. Unfortunately the biggest 3 teams are the ones happy with the status quo...

[Murdoch]

Well, Williams have made their bed with Stroll and Sirotkin, and now they'll have to lie in it...tanking your identity and brand value for quick cash has it's costs I guess 

Hopefully Martini will crop up with another team in another capacity when the time is right...

 

I imagine that Williams were told last year this was going to happen (I doubt v much they've literally just been informed), hence the need for extra income from drivers, rather than Martini walking way because of the drivers.

 

+ If it was because of the drivers, there are many other teams who could do with some cash....

 

Anyway, this announcement won't do RKs chances much good.

[PlayboyRacer]

It's not an identity crisis, its a cost crisis. F1 is far too expensive. That is the root cause of all the problems from return on investment to on track competitiveness and entertainment. If teams were able to compete on $50m a year, they wouldn't need to target anything like the sponsorship income they do now and so title sponsorship would drop to a quarter of its current rate card and the ROI on that would suddenly be interesting and brands would come flooding back. Brands aren't currently avoiding F1 because of an identity crisis, they're avoiding because there is no business case. Same for potential new teams/manufacturers. Unfortunately the biggest 3 teams are the ones happy with the status quo...

You make very valid points, can't argue. Costs has been a major issue for as long as I can remember....but despite this, we've had plenty of sponsors/major backers of teams in the past. Even after tobacco got shuffled out the back door.

 

I actually do believe an identity crisis is looming, seriously I wonder what Formula 1 is anymore. So how would a newbie feel? What attracts them to the sport? I took to Formula 1 as a child based off the speed, the danger, the sound and how it totally seemed outrageous. 

 

How much of that is left? And without that, what will attract new fans? Sponsors want significant exposure for their money spent, exposure comes with eyeballs on screens....

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 27 February 2018 - 10:08.

[PayasYouRace]

I doubt it's because of the drivers because they're leaving the sport, not just the team. You could lay blame at the drivers' feet if Martini were switching teams. But evidence points to an issue within the sport as a whole, as it being not attracting as an advertising medium.

[johnmhinds]

Isn’t really surprising that Martini would question their sponsorship of Williams when their advertising has a cameo from Susie Wolff in a Mercedes and has no involvement from any of the Williams drivers.

[Supertourer]

I doubt it's because of the drivers because they're leaving the sport, not just the team. You could lay blame at the drivers' feet if Martini were switching teams. But evidence points to an issue within the sport as a whole, as it being not attracting as an advertising medium.

 

I doubt it's because of the drivers because they're leaving the sport, not just the team. You could lay blame at the drivers' feet if Martini were switching teams. But evidence points to an issue within the sport as a whole, as it being not attracting as an advertising medium.

Yep, if they wanted to maintain F1 involvement their best bet was to do a deal with Liberty as a GP sponsor and trackside ad partner, but clearly they don't think that F1 meets their objectives. This will also be a blow to Liberty, Martini is exactly the sort of brand they want in F1 and if they don't like see the value than Liberty will wonder where future sponsorship will come from.

[dau]

Not sure if you've noticed but quite a few have left in recent times. They aren't being replaced either.... Santander blowing off Ferrari and F1 in favour of Champions League football was a major alarm bell IMO. McLaren can't attract a major backer and cars all over the grid are bare.

 

The sport is heading towards a major identity crisis, alienating fans and major backers are finding far better value elsewhere. It's a serious problem.

Yes, a few have left over the years. So it's likely not because of the Halo, or the new logo, the driver choice or the ban on grid girls. It's more likely because the sport has become way too expensive for the brand exposure you can get there, courtesy of a few teams willing and able to spend hundreds of millions and blocking every move for cost reduction.

[noikeee]

I'm not sure uglier cars, diminishing popularity in the sport, low reputation drivers, poor performance from the team are all factors to be dismissed; but this could simply have been the plan from the start. Get people talking again about the brand by introducing an iconic livery based on the brand, race it for 5 years and then move on. I know little about marketing but imagine that sponsoring something gives you diminishing returns as time goes on - the Martini livery is great but isn't new and fresh anymore, is it? Besides it already made enough impact for people to remember it for years to come.

 

It's a bit like how Coca-Cola had TV adverts going on all the time in the 90s, nowadays I don't think I've seen one for years - they've already built up the brand to a very very recognisable name, to continue pouring in cash in adverts would've been a waste of cash. Perhaps repeat the aggressive marketing campaign a decade or two later, when new generations come up - indeed that's what Martini did, with an aggressive F1 marketing campaign in the 70s sponsoring Brabham etc; gone for long, and now back 40 years later with Williams, now that young people don't really drink Martini that often amymore.

Edited by noikeee, 27 February 2018 - 10:16.

[PlayboyRacer]

Yes, a few have left over the years. So it's likely not because of the Halo, or the new logo, the driver choice or the ban on grid girls. It's more likely because the sport has become way too expensive for the brand exposure you can get there, courtesy of a few teams willing and able to spend hundreds of millions and blocking every move for cost reduction.

I think its a combination of high costs and the changing landscape of Formula 1. Lets not pretend that Formula 1 has ever been cheap or even sensible in terms of costs, least not in the modern era. But I can't ignore the dwindling fan base, the lack of new fans flocking to the sport and the reasons for this.

 

Less interest in the sport = less exposure. Sponsors want the big spectacle... that brings big returns on their significant spend. There are less fans because people are no longer attracted to Formula 1 as a spectacle. 

 

Santander switching to football is the perfect example.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 27 February 2018 - 10:25.

[AlexPrime]

You make very valid points, can't argue. Costs has been a major issue for as long as I can remember....but despite this, we've had plenty of sponsors/major backers of teams in the past. Even after tobacco got shuffled out the back door.

 

I actually do believe an identity crisis is looming, seriously I wonder what Formula 1 is anymore. So how would a newbie feel? What attracts them to the sport? I took to Formula 1 as a child based off the speed, the danger, the sound and how it totally seemed outrageous. 

 

How much of that is left? And without that, what will attract new fans? Sponsors want significant exposure for their money spent, exposure comes with eyeballs on screens....

And I watched the Nascar races at Daytona and Atlanta. They supposedly have also decline, but the cars are all shiny with sponsor logos. Also, they are NOT politically correct. Just sayin'

[PayasYouRace]

NASCAR is a national series. Sponsorship can come from national offices of companies.

[Mart280]

I'm sorry to see them leave but Williams will come through it ok, F1 is changing, we for the most part might not like it but we cannot stop it and harking back to the old days (I'm really guilty of doing this, the 80's through to the early 2000's for me) doesn't help, I'm sure the head honcho's at Williams who I trust entirely have plans laid down and I feel that like when tobacco sponsorship ended we need to look beyond Alcohol sponsorship as well.

The first couple of years Martini had a lot of exposure especially the 2nd half of 2014 when Williams seemed to have a car on the podium almost every week but now for a team outside of the top three teams to get a car on the podium is almost impossible, this makes it harder for potential sponsors to lay their money down.

[KWSN - DSM]

Value for money, or lag of same.

 

I have not seen a single Martini advert over here, with or without a F1 connection. A lot of major sponsorship is about impressing the right people on top of actually sponsoring the team, there is a huge hospitality area to all F1 teams, this is where the big cats are being wined and dined. They get to meet the drivers, they get close to the cars and they have luxury seats they can use for the long or short time the race can keep their attention.

 

But....

 

"Our car is not winning?

 

No not this season, we are in a process of improving our standing and competitiveness in order to finish 4th in the championship.

 

So when did you last win a race?

 

We were the last 'small' team to win a race, that was in 2012. 

 

So you have not battled for championships since 2012?

 

The win in 2012 was really a fluke, last time we were involved in a championship fight was 2003.

 

Our logo seem very small on the car, can the viewers see it on TV?

 

Our car is not shown a lot on TV, but when it is the commentators for the most part refer to it as 'team name'

 

So they do not call it 'naming sponsor team name'?

 

No that is rare during the race, they do on occasion mention our connection during the pre-race if they talk about us instead of the top teams who have won all races since 2012.

 

What am I getting for my $50 million then?"

 

[freaky1]

How do they measure fanbase and ratings ? I have no idea but would be fascinated to know.

 

Is it a combination of ticket sales and TV ratings ? Are TV ratings taken from smaller samples and extrapolated ?

[SenorSjon]

 

I'm not sure uglier cars, diminishing popularity in the sport, low reputation drivers, poor performance from the team are all factors to be dismissed; but this could simply have been the plan from the start. Get people talking again about the brand by introducing an iconic livery based on the brand, race it for 5 years and then move on. I know little about marketing but imagine that sponsoring something gives you diminishing returns as time goes on - the Martini livery is great but isn't new and fresh anymore, is it? Besides it already made enough impact for people to remember it for years to come.

 

It's a bit like how Coca-Cola had TV adverts going on all the time in the 90s, nowadays I don't think I've seen one for years - they've already built up the brand to a very very recognisable name, to continue pouring in cash in adverts would've been a waste of cash. Perhaps repeat the aggressive marketing campaign a decade or two later, when new generations come up - indeed that's what Martini did, with an aggressive F1 marketing campaign in the 70s sponsoring Brabham etc; gone for long, and now back 40 years later with Williams, now that young people don't really drink Martini that often amymore.

 

 

A bit o/t but it is documented that Coca Cola did lower advertsing budgets in the past, only to see fast dwindling sales and competitors rising. They soon cancelled that decision. You need brand awareness all the time.

[LuckyStrike1]

I would not put too much emphasis on Martini leaving but it's another sign for the struggle for sponsorship F1 is and will be facing. 

Competing with cars is not the marketing platform it once was, as out attitude towards cars and how we buy them, own them and use them change and will be changing more with the new generations of people. 

Teams in F1 are mostly owner/driver partners financed these days, and the industry closest to motorsport is the car industry. F1 struggles to attract more car manufacturers who does not seem to see motorsport as the primary marketing platform for them, and see motorsport more as a self financed marketing driven business with customer programs. 

So we will see. 

But there is some worrying signs about how motorsport as a whole and F1 in particular will find finances. 



 

[EthanM]

But there is some worrying signs about how motorsport as a whole and F1 in particular will find finances. 



 

 

 

F1 had its hayday as a marketing platform ... in the 80s/90s. When TV was still king and 'exciting' sold stuff

 

these days people advertisers care about don't care about TV, much less F1. So ... catch 22.

 

F1's problem is the fanbase is fragmented, it's like the NBA where all the fanbase is in one country, so sticking it behind a paywall isn't as easy to do.

[Tenmantaylor]

F1 is cannibalizing itself.

[noikeee]

A bit o/t but it is documented that Coca Cola did lower advertsing budgets in the past, only to see fast dwindling sales and competitors rising. They soon cancelled that decision. You need brand awareness all the time.

Ok fair enough I don't understand much about the subject, but surely the biggest impact of an advert is when it's something new that draws people's attention?

 

So possibly it would be more effective to keep up brand awareness to change your adverts, instead of remaining where you are or stopping your marketing campaign.

[Supertourer]

Another thing to add is that corporate governence is biting more and accepting hospitality is harder. I know from partner that I work with that they are always very concious of compliance and being seen to 'reward' customers too much and that around £100 to £150 per head is deemed acceptable and more is harder to justify. This will start to hit F1 and also events like Wimbledon and major horse racing events and even the Chelsea Flower Show in the UK.

 

Regarding Martini and F1, you don't need F1 to lauch a global marketing intitiative, you do it at a press of a button and in a much more targeted way. F1 has simply become too expensive, can you imagine how hard it would be to get a $50M title sponsorship proposal agreed by a board these days.

[MrRat]

Sponsors are not leaving over the logo change, for crying out loud.

He never said that they are leaving the logo change. He said sponsors are leaving and the sport now has a 3M logo. 

[PlayboyRacer]

F1 had its hayday as a marketing platform ... in the 80s/90s. When TV was still king and 'exciting' sold stuff

 

these days people advertisers care about don't care about TV, much less F1. So ... catch 22.

 

I tend to agree with this. The F1 of the 80s and 90s had TV booming, tobacco money flowing like rivers of gold... and it was a spectacle with loads of danger, glamour and drivers showcasing skills and talent from another planet.

 

Those days are done. If you were coming into the sport now, as a fan, I don't see at all the attraction. Certainly not to follow it religiously.