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McLaren MCL33 -- Part II


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#4951 CPR

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:56

http://www.gptoday.c..._car_for_Spain/

 

lol I don't know what to believe anymore, nice to have a bit of suspense though.

 

The pathetic state of journalism in some quarters...

 

It would be more accurate to call it the proper A spec car.



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#4952 Quickshifter

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:00

 

Last year we laughed at Honda when they were constantly pushing that elusive next gen engine to the next race and the next after that. Granted it is still early but so far McLaren has told us that the Renault integration went much easier than expected, only to now be told that it is an issue that will take some more time to solve. They told us that the car in Melbourne would not be the same as during testing, later they told us that Melbourne would be the tough race but after that things would look sunny. Now we are informed that it is Barcelona where it will all happen, they will suddenly introduce a b-spec car which is in reality the real 2018 car. 
 
It’s not strange there is little trust left. 

 

 

In the mean time, Mclaren are 4th in standings with 100% reliability and Alonso stands 6th in constructors having scored more points than he managed to in entire 2017.



#4953 Quickshifter

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:04

Off topic but Alonso speaks 4 languages

 


Edited by Quickshifter, 19 April 2018 - 08:04.


#4954 sopa

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:22

It's a 3 years plan, not a 3 races plan.

 

3-year-plan?

 

Wait, where have I heard it?

 

Oh, yeah, the McLaren-Honda partnership. When it started out rubbish in 2015, it was said it's a long-term plan and rewards would wait in the 3rd season...



#4955 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:28

What if Alonso has been asking for high downforce setup so he can tackle the car his way? Could this also explain why the Ferrari's performance declined during his period.

 

Go back to the Kimi vs Fernando thread



#4956 blacky

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:31

You are right, writing off any chances of improvement after three races in to the season over what is basically is a 2017 car with 2018 rear end is pragmatic :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, that's exactly the point of the "haters"...

 

Sometimes it's useless to discuss with you anyway, you live in your own "McLaren-word". If McLaren announces tomorrow that they will reunion with Honda next year, I guess you will be the brave soldier as always, who will have hundreds of arguments why that's the right decision. 



#4957 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:37

So a completely un-tested 'new car' upgrade coming into the euro season due to lack of running in pre-season testing is worrying no?

 

I think everyone agrees that it would have been better to have more running in winter

 

Maybe true for the 2015 and 2017 season, surely not for the 2016 season and funnily I strongly believe that the 2016 chassis was the worst of this 3. The other two chassis performed way better on tracks like Monaco or Budapest in relation to fast tracks. In 2016 there was barely a difference between Monaco or a (short) fast track.

 

In 2016 they were still running less kilometers, but you are right that it was not that bad. But they were still running with an underpowered PU and had a lot of guessing to do

 

 

Agreed, it was important. Not sure whether it was such a big factor to prevent them for years to close in to the top three chassis-wise.

 

Teams each new year come up with new and untested cars and are pretty quickly faster than with their old cars, without much track time. The development these days is mostly based on simulations and test rigs.

Much of track testing today seems oriented to make the tires work better, and only a smaller chunk is dedicated to validate simulation and wind tunnel data and new parts.

 

Therefore my pretty limited optimism. But that's me, I like to be "prepared" rather than disappointed (yet I still am disappointed, since the actual situation is somewhat worse than I expected).

 

The past 3 years were not comparable to anything normal. Test kilometers heavily cut short in at least 2 out of 3 years, and when it was running it was underpowered, oscillated, etc.

 

You may remember that I was labeled a Honda apologist and what not, and I still believe that ideally McLaren would have stuck it out, but the fact is that it was simply not possible for McLaren and that the PU situation was very bad and without doubt was a severe problem for car development as well



#4958 Oblivion

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:48

One thing to me is clear that McLaren is taking risk to deploy new car in season.

 

 

The big question is how NEW is the new car? I remember back in 2004 they even needed a separate crashtest for MP4-19B. This year it is definetely not the case. So I think the main changes lies in aerodynamic department - bodywork.



#4959 baddog

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:51

In the mean time, Mclaren are 4th in standings with 100% reliability and Alonso stands 6th in constructors having scored more points than he managed to in entire 2017.

 

With a car which, if we believe the media, is about to be replaced with a new one. It all seems rather peculiar. I assume in the end it is just a relatively major aero update and some new stuff around cooling.



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#4960 Quickshifter

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:51

Yeah, that's exactly the point of the "haters"...

 

Sometimes it's useless to discuss with you anyway, you live in your own "McLaren-word". If McLaren announces tomorrow that they will reunion with Honda next year, I guess you will be the brave soldier as always, who will have hundreds of arguments why that's the right decision. 

 

The point is simple. It is a new partnership and Mclaren have done reasonably well so far, well enough to earn a chance to be assessed after their first significant car upgrade. If you cannot see that then definitely you cannot see anything positive about Mclaren. In an ideal world they should have got the Spain upgrade car at the start of the season but do we live in an ideal world? Mclaren do not have unlimited resources to address reliability issues faced in testing while working on upgrades simultaneously. Spain will be the 5th race and it is perfectly reasonable that Mclaren deserve that much time to get back on schedule.


Edited by Quickshifter, 19 April 2018 - 08:54.


#4961 Rinehart

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:46

It's a 3 years plan, not a 3 races plan.

 

Agreed, but the starting point is worse than I'd expected. So for arguments sake if they improve by 1 second per lap a year for 3 years but they start 1 second per lap back from ideal, they end up 1 second back from ideal in 3 years...

 

Find it hilarious that some people seem to have an issue with Mclaren fans taking things in a pragmatic manner and not jumping the gun in to drawing conclusions and passing judgement.

 

I hope you are not referring to me. I have no issue with the pragmatic, long term view, in fact I am hopeful of it, but I don't think it's jumping the gun to say that right now, its disappointing. That's just a current appraisal of a current situation. 

 

Way too much short-sightedness in this thread. The pessimists will be eating their words within the two-three races.

 

Again, observing that right now its disappointing, doesn't make the hope and expectation that the Spain upgrade will be significant, in any way mutually exclusive. Though I will add that my faith is not infinite... it wasn't for Honda! 



#4962 CPR

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:58

The big question is how NEW is the new car? I remember back in 2004 they even needed a separate crashtest for MP4-19B. This year it is definetely not the case. So I think the main changes lies in aerodynamic department - bodywork.

 

Yes, something like that.

 

Things that (probably) won't change: chassis, PU integration, drivetrain, rear suspension. Those are big major pieces that are very expensive to re-design. I dunno if they'll have any changes to the engine cover or similar but that would probably be minor and incremental. I suspect we might see changes to the PU installation later in the year though (eg around Hungary)

 

Things we know for sure are changing: the nose. It sounds minor but this requires a crash test by itself, which makes it a major element and not cheap to redesign - it's quite rare for a major change to the nose (requiring a new crash test) to be introduced during the season.

 

I dunno if we'll see a change to the FW, tray, bargeboards, side-pods, floor, diffuser etc but I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes here, particularly to the bargeboards.


Edited by CPR, 19 April 2018 - 09:58.


#4963 BJHF1

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:14

Has the new nose been something confirmed by the team?

#4964 CPR

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:35

Has the new nose been something confirmed by the team?

 

I can't find an on the record quote from the team about the new nose. However, every major site has reported it as fact rather than speculation. The current nose looks like a step back (ie interim solution) as well.



#4965 Insane111

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:38

It was originally from a BBC article which also had an interview with Boullier. No quotes from him confirming it, but I don't think Benson would just make it up or present a rumour as fact.



#4966 Christophe77

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:42

Take a look at this picture of Lando. Pretty sure that is a repainted, halo fitted MCL32 behind him, you can only really tell the difference between it and the 33 by the rear suspension. Just look at how similar it is to the 33, it is so obvious they have been running a car with many parts months and months out if date. Fingers crossed we should see big gains in Spain.

https://twitter.com/...9310881792?s=19

You sure that's the MCL32?? I can't tell the difference. And it got Renault stickers if I'm not mistaking. 



#4967 Nicktendo86

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:49

You sure that's the MCL32?? I can't tell the difference. And it got Renault stickers if I'm not mistaking. 

 


Looks like a repainted 32 to me, the rear suspension gives it away.

#4968 Insane111

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:52

Looks like a repainted 32 to me, the rear suspension gives it away.

And the slope of the engine cover.



#4969 Oblivion

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:52

it's quite rare for a major change to the nose (requiring a new crash test) to be introduced during the season.

 

 

McLaren did it in 2014



#4970 Nicktendo86

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:53

And the slope of the engine cover.

 


Indeed. My point is however that it is quite difficult to tell the difference between the old and new cars which just goes to show how much they have to potentially improve and upgrade.

#4971 Radoye

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:54

 

 

Maybe the problem isn't really with McLaren here, but rather with your unreasonable expectations?

 

Except for the one-lap qualifying pace, which i too agree is disappointing, everything else is pretty much where i'd expected it to be at this stage - and already miles ahead of last year.



#4972 Nicktendo86

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:54

McLaren did it in 2014

 


2015 wasn't it? The first year of the Honda era? Went from a really long flat nose to a thumb nose, the 2014 was a, erm, long appendage all year as far as I remember.

Edited by Nicktendo86, 19 April 2018 - 11:55.


#4973 Oblivion

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:05

2015 wasn't it? The first year of the Honda era? Went from a really long flat nose to a thumb nose, the 2014 was a, erm, long appendage all year as far as I remember.

Yes yes. 2015. My mistake.



#4974 Risil

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:16

Look at that, we were all having so much fun I forgot to open a new thread. Part 3 this way: http://forums.autosp...mcl33-part-iii/