4225 replies to this topic

[Jovanotti]

Oi, less than 4 hours until FP1 and no Ferrari driver's thread yet?
I guess no one is expecting any surprises from this intra-team battle anymore after a clear cut affair last season. For both, things can hopefully only get better in 2018. If the Ferrari is capable, Seb should take the opportunity, iron out his meltdowns and take the fight to Lewis for the sanity of everyone after Merc's dominant years. For Kimi, as a follower of the first hour, I hope his - very probably - last year in the sport will be a luckier and more competitive one. Even if he's been declining somewhat during the last years, he deserves to go out on a high note. And please get that ****ing final win!!

So: here's to less bromance...

...and more level-headed fights on track. Discuss!

Edited by Jovanotti, 22 March 2018 - 20:08.

[venerablemonster]

More bromance please.

[F1Gmr]

Until Kimi shows signs of actually putting effort in, then its Vettel.

 

Vettel wants to be a 5 time world champion. Sometimes you wonder if Kimi wants to be in the sport anymore.

 

Hope he does have a good season though.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Sadly I don’t expect much from Kimi this year anymore. You don’t get better when you’re nearing an age of 39, you’re only on the decline. And also for this season, Red Bull has clearly improved, which will cause Kimi to fall back more than last season in the points table.

Vettel will win it with ease of course.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think the lack of interest speaks volumes unfortunately.

[DrF]

It's not like either of them have a shot at the WDC in any case. It's who will stay ahead of their opposite number at Red Bull which is interesting.

[alframsey]

Every single year I hope that Kimi will come good again and very single year i am disappointed... this is the first uear u expect nothing more than him turning up.

[KWSN - DSM]

Kimi was cooked several seasons ago, he will be no different this season compared to last.

 

[Cyanide]

Yeah, Kimi's hours of glory have long passed. 

 

Has potential to be the most one sided intra-team battle of the season. 

[beachdrifter]

Kimi was cooked several seasons ago, he will be no different this season compared to last.

 

 

As much as I still like Kimi for his past self, Ferrari is crazy to keep paying him that kind of money season after season. It's like they don't give a crap about the WCC.

[beachdrifter]

It's not like either of them have a shot at the WDC in any case. It's who will stay ahead of their opposite number at Red Bull which is interesting.

 

Way too early to tell...

[ConsiderAndGo]

Vettel domination.

[xtremeclock]

I think the lack of interest speaks volumes unfortunately.

 

If the car is good and capable of winning races / fighting for the WDC-WCC then it'll be interesting.... (Monaco 2017, the thread exploded)

 

Now if the SF71H is a piece of crap no one will care who finishes ahead, starting with the drivers.

Edited by xtremeclock, 22 March 2018 - 21:12.

[f1paul]

[apoka]

Let's hope the car will be good. Then this thread might come alive.

[RPM40]

Sadly I don’t expect much from Kimi this year anymore. You don’t get better when you’re nearing an age of 39, you’re only on the decline. And also for this season, Red Bull has clearly improved, which will cause Kimi to fall back more than last season in the points table.

Vettel will win it with ease of course.

 

Thats fair though, unreasonable for Vettel in his prime to expect to be beaten by a 39 year old Raikkonen.

[Piif]

It's not like either of them have a shot at the WDC in any case. It's who will stay ahead of their opposite number at Red Bull which is interesting.

 

What are you on? Vettel led most of the championship last year and would've won if not for his shenanigans at Baku and Singapore. He'll be on it again this year.

[Quickshifter]

Is there really a battle between the two? Vettel No-1, Kimi as his rearguard, that's the reality. Kimi is out there collecting his final pay day, nothing more. Might sound harsh but that's exactly what it is.

Edited by Quickshifter, 22 March 2018 - 22:32.

[sopa]

So let's see if the arguable tradition holds water this year that Vettel is better in odd-numbered years than in even-numbered years. Coupled with expectations that Ferrari isn't as good as they were last year, Vettel could suffer from lack of motivation, when he doesn't have a car as good as he likes it to be.

 

So could it be a perfect storm for a surprise?    Wouldn't look good on Vettel though if he can't trash a 38-year-old veteran.

[Zava]

What are you on? Vettel led most of the championship last year and would've won if not for his shenanigans at Baku and Singapore. He'll be on it again this year.

but then Hamilton would've won it if not for his abysmal quali sessions in monaco and interlagos.

I never get why people remove only one side of the story in these woulda-shouldas.

[skc]

Why are people mentioning Kimis age. If he's too old to compete then he should retire. I don't want to see people saying Vettel only beat Kimi because Kimi is old. Vettel beats Kimi because he is faster. End of.

[barzini]

Why are people mentioning Kimis age. If he's too old to compete then he should retire. I don't want to see people saying Vettel only beat Kimi because Kimi is old. Vettel beats Kimi because he is faster. End of.

 

Too bad you don't get to dictate people's opinions. 

But I'll give you a hint: Sebastian being faster might be because Kimi has gotten slower because he is nearly 40 years old now. It's totally natural. 

But then again, in 2018 we only have had 2 FP sessions and Kimi has been faster in them both.

[RPM40]

Why are people mentioning Kimis age. If he's too old to compete then he should retire. I don't want to see people saying Vettel only beat Kimi because Kimi is old. Vettel beats Kimi because he is faster. End of.

 

Drivers get older and typically get slower with age.

[JoeDede]

Why are people mentioning Kimis age. If he's too old to compete then he should retire. I don't want to see people saying Vettel only beat Kimi because Kimi is old. Vettel beats Kimi because he is faster. End of.

 

LOL 

 

Then you need to leave the internet, stop reading papers and magazines, and drop TV and live streams 

[Vesuvius]

Why are people mentioning Kimis age. If he's too old to compete then he should retire. I don't want to see people saying Vettel only beat Kimi because Kimi is old. Vettel beats Kimi because he is faster. End of.

Because age is a big factor, Seb is on his peak age, while Kimi is past to his best, but still can deliver good performances sometimes.

[anyeis]

Has restricted exhaust blowing again hurt Seb? Guess we will see

 

As a generality, teams have been looking at doing it for the last few years and Ferrari was very much in the vanguard of the technology last year and this was a significant part of why the SF70H had such a planted rear end that allowed Sebastian Vettel the confidence to extract huge entry speed from the car

 

https://www.motorspo...ot-just-hot-air

[RPM40]

Has restricted exhaust blowing again hurt Seb? Guess we will see

 

 

 

 

https://www.motorspo...ot-just-hot-air

 

I love that every time Vettel isn't absolute peak performance wise (after one Friday practice mind you) its always to do with exhaust blowing something or other.

[as65p]

Because age is a big factor, Seb is on his peak age, while Kimi is past to his best, but still can deliver good performances sometimes.

 

Nah, not for the Kimster. He's delivering constant performances for 4 years now, and counting.

[JoeDede]

I would love for Kimi to beat Vettel this year 

[skc]

Too bad you don't get to dictate people's opinions. 
But I'll give you a hint: Sebastian being faster might be because Kimi has gotten slower because he is nearly 40 years old now. It's totally natural. 
But then again, in 2018 we only have had 2 FP sessions and Kimi has been faster in them both.

OK, so then we are all agreed that Seb is the faster driver.

Anytime Kimi beats him is simply an anomaly.

After all, he's old.

[barzini]

OK, so then we are all agreed that Seb is the faster driver.

Anytime Kimi beats him is simply an anomaly.

After all, he's old.

Yes? Seb most of the time is the fastest driver, as he should be (clear nr 1 status, huge salary, younger etc.) I don’t remember anyone doubting that.

Let’s hope that Kimi can go out on a high note this season, if it is his final.

[GTA]

I think it's gonna be a repeat of 2016 ,  occasional podium fight but mostly fighting for 4th -6th and potential for a Singapore win for Seb. Shift resources for the 2019 car even before the summer break. 

[Veemax]

Nah, not for the Kimster. He's delivering constant performances for 4 years now, and counting.

 

Obvious troll is obvious. Then again you are wrong as usual.   

[Seanspeed]

Has restricted exhaust blowing again hurt Seb? Guess we will see
 
https://www.motorspo...ot-just-hot-air

Hmmm, yea. Also with such limited engines this year, we really need to see if Kimi can finally buck his 'carbreaker' reputation.

Guess we'll see.

Yes? Seb most of the time is the fastest driver, as he should be (clear nr 1 status, huge salary, younger etc.) I don’t remember anyone doubting that.

Let’s hope that Kimi can go out on a high note this season, if it is his final.

There is no clear no.1 status, for the like 50th time. If Kimi can come out and be faster than Vettel consistently, Kimi will also find himself with better strategies and more chances to win.

If Ferrari just need a lapdog, they can get one for much cheaper.

Vettel is faster because he does a better job driving the car. That's it.

This thread is gonna be as painful as ever.

[barzini]

Hmmm, yea. Also with such limited engines this year, we really need to see if Kimi can finally buck his 'carbreaker' reputation.

Guess we'll see.

There is no clear no.1 status, for the like 50th time. If Kimi can come out and be faster than Vettel consistently, Kimi will also find himself with better strategies and more chances to win.

If Ferrari just need a lapdog, they can get one for much cheaper.

Vettel is faster because he does a better job driving the car. That's it.

This thread is gonna be as painful as ever.

Vettel has done better job yes, which also makes him a nr1 driver. I really don’t understand why is it so difficult for you to admit it. If Vettel is not a number 1 driver, I would like to know how would you describe a nr1 driver?
Even in 2016 when Kimi was qualifying infront of Seb, more often than not he got very questionable strategies (Mexico for example). How much btw was Kimi’s contract? A hell of a lot less than Seb’s, so he is quite cheap tbh.

Anyhow, I hope you are right - that if Kimi performs well he is allowed to finish ahead of Seb.

And yes I agree, this topic will be painful because it gets old really fast to read posts about how Kimi should be fired - first ones will pop up during this weekend, I think

Edited by barzini, 23 March 2018 - 16:02.

[30L]

 

...There is no clear no.1 status, for the like 50th time. If Kimi can come out and be faster than Vettel consistently, Kimi will also find himself with better strategies and more chances to win.

If Ferrari just need a lapdog, they can get one for much cheaper.

Vettel is faster because he does a better job driving the car. That's it.

This thread is gonna be as painful as ever.

 

Ferrari always use no.1 drivers, don't they? Do you really think they would favor Kimi as they do Vet? Pay aside and age and last years results and so on? Smells like Kimi's no.2 all over the place...

Clearly they could have a better driver in the seat, one that could do a better job towards the WCC, and cheaper too, honestly why they hadn't done it still intrigues me.

Anyway, wolud love to see Kimi retire after this season, hopefully with a win or at least a strong last year, he deserves it.

Edited by 30L, 23 March 2018 - 22:56.

[DrF]

Clearely they could have a better driver in the seat, one that could do a better job towards the WCC, and cheaper too, honestly why they hadn't done it still intrigues me.

Clearly there isn't one available.

[30L]

Clearly there isn't one available.

 

 Nasty typos...

 Do you really think, from the current grid line up, nobody would adapt better to that Ferrari than Rai while being cheaper? Somehow I highly doubt that...

[DrF]

Nasty typos...
Do you really think, from the current grid line up, nobody would adapt better to that Ferrari than Rai while being cheaper? Somehow I highly doubt that...

they're all either locked in contracts or not good enough. If one was available, Ferrari would show Kimi the door.

[Zilbert]

Id say Kimis ratio of driver quality / ego still beats pretty much everybody in the field.

[Seanspeed]

Vettel has done better job yes, which also makes him a nr1 driver. I really don’t understand why is it so difficult for you to admit it. If Vettel is not a number 1 driver, I would like to know how would you describe a nr1 driver?
Even in 2016 when Kimi was qualifying infront of Seb, more often than not he got very questionable strategies (Mexico for example). How much btw was Kimi’s contract? A hell of a lot less than Seb’s, so he is quite cheap tbh.

Anyhow, I hope you are right - that if Kimi performs well he is allowed to finish ahead of Seb.

And yes I agree, this topic will be painful because it gets old really fast to read posts about how Kimi should be fired - first ones will pop up during this weekend, I think

Kimi's contract is anything but cheap. And no, Kimi wasn't getting 'strange' strategies meant to hurt him. Ferrari is just not great with strategy quite often, unfortunately. Also, strategies aren't just gifts. Drivers need to make them work.

Ferrari always use no.1 drivers, don't they? Do you really think they would favor Kimi as they do Vet? Pay aside and age and last years results and so on? Smells like Kimi's no.2 all over the place...
Clearly they could have a better driver in the seat, one that could do a better job towards the WCC, and cheaper too, honestly why they hadn't done it still intrigues me.
Anyway, wolud love to see Kimi retire after this season, hopefully with a win or at least a strong last year, he deserves it.

No, Ferrari haven't had a default no.1 driver since Schumacher. 'Default' being the key word. Obviously at some stage of a season, one driver may start to get preferential treatment if the other driver is basically out of contention, but this is very different from a 'default' no.1 driver situation, which would mean a driver gets preferential treatment from the get-go.

Kimi and Massa is a great example of this. Kimi was probably expected to come into the team and be the new team leader/no.1 guy - the replacement for Schumacher. And he did benefit from no.1 prioritization by the end of 2007 when Massa fell out of contention. But in 2008, the situation reversed. Massa had the better season and Ferrari then gave *him* no.1 treatment by the end as Kimi was basically out of the running.

It's really that simple. Ferrari aren't working against Kimi. Kimi is a hugely popular driver and I doubt Ferrari would be displeased at all if he was the one beating out Vettel more often than not. There also isn't a more team-orientated team on the grid. They aren't there to prop up drivers. At Ferrari, you drive *for Ferrari*.

[garoidb]

they're all either locked in contracts or not good enough. If one was available, Ferrari would show Kimi the door.

 

While there must be some truth to this, incumbency is an advantage too. They kept Felipe on for a long time too in essentially the same role. The role in question only arises for teams who might have some chance of contending for a championship. Otherwise, it is better to think about blooding new talent, like McLaren, for example, are currently doing with Stoffel. So, for Ferrari, and also Mercedes, a conservative approach makes sense. 

Edited by garoidb, 23 March 2018 - 23:41.

[Zilbert]

Monaco GP 2017 Qualifying result: 1. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari 

                                                        2. Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari   

Maurizio Arrivabene:" Its a shame Sebastian made that mistake on his lap".

[Seanspeed]

Monaco GP 2017 Qualifying result: 1. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari 
                                                        2. Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari   
Maurizio Arrivabene:" Its a shame Sebastian made that mistake on his lap".

Full quote:

“I'm really happy for him[Kimi] because he deserves it - the champion is coming out sometimes,” said Arrivabene. “It's a pity for Sebastian that he made a little mistake in Turn 5, but having two cars up there is good.”

He was feeling sorry for Vettel on a personal level, that's all.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 March 2018 - 23:50.

[beachdrifter]

While there must be some truth to this, incumbency is an advantage too. They kept Felipe on for a long time too in essentially the same role. The role in question only arises for teams who might have some chance of contending for a championship. Otherwise, it is better to think about blooding new talent, like McLaren, for example, are currently doing with Stoffel. So, for Ferrari, and also Mercedes, a conservative approach makes sense. 

 

You get the impression it's mainly Vettel calling the shots on that front. He's been very vocal in his lobbying to keep Kimi aboard, even when the performances were quite far from what Ferrari hoped for.

[Seanspeed]

You get the impression it's mainly Vettel calling the shots on that front. He's been very vocal in his lobbying to keep Kimi aboard, even when the performances were quite far from what Ferrari hoped for.

I get the impression Ferrari are too nice and too eager to buy into 'resurgent form' that seems to always happen at a very opportune time and then fall away again. Same as happened with Massa.

Honestly, I've not been impressed with Ferrari's driver management for quite a while. I feel if it wasn't for their prestigious name, they'd struggle with driver hirings. Their junior driver program has been incredibly unsuccessful for a long time.

[Zilbert]

Full quote:

“I'm really happy for him[Kimi] because he deserves it - the champion is coming out sometimes,” said Arrivabene. “It's a pity for Sebastian that he made a little mistake in Turn 5, but having two cars up there is good.”

He was feeling sorry for Vettel on a personal level, that's all.

He shouldn't have been voicing that feeling publicly, being the team principal. Did he felt sorry for Kimi in Hungary when he arguably lost pole with a mistake in a chicane?

[Seanspeed]

He shouldn't have been voicing that feeling publicly, being the team principal. Did he felt sorry for Kimi in Hungary when he arguably lost pole with a mistake in a chicane?

"I'm really happy for him because he deserves it - the champion is coming out sometimes"

You're obviously going to completely and conveniently ignore this part of his comment, cuz it doesn't fit your narrative.

And Vettel was looking quicker in Hungary already. It's *incredibly* arguable that Kimi 'lost pole' with such a small mistake.

[Junky]

I assume that this time it will really be Kimi's last year.

[30L]

they're all either locked in contracts or not good enough. If one was available, Ferrari would show Kimi the door.

 

 

Kimi's contract is anything but cheap. And no, Kimi wasn't getting 'strange' strategies meant to hurt him. Ferrari is just not great with strategy quite often, unfortunately. Also, strategies aren't just gifts. Drivers need to make them work.

No, Ferrari haven't had a default no.1 driver since Schumacher. 'Default' being the key word. Obviously at some stage of a season, one driver may start to get preferential treatment if the other driver is basically out of contention, but this is very different from a 'default' no.1 driver situation, which would mean a driver gets preferential treatment from the get-go.

Kimi and Massa is a great example of this. Kimi was probably expected to come into the team and be the new team leader/no.1 guy - the replacement for Schumacher. And he did benefit from no.1 prioritization by the end of 2007 when Massa fell out of contention. But in 2008, the situation reversed. Massa had the better season and Ferrari then gave *him* no.1 treatment by the end as Kimi was basically out of the running.

It's really that simple. Ferrari aren't working against Kimi. Kimi is a hugely popular driver and I doubt Ferrari would be displeased at all if he was the one beating out Vettel more often than not. There also isn't a more team-orientated team on the grid. They aren't there to prop up drivers. At Ferrari, you drive *for Ferrari*.

 

  Well I see your points, don't agree tho. I think that Ferrari don't dump Kimi mostly because of Vet, since bringing somebody else that could potentially beat Seb and threaten his no.1 status is something he'll be up against. Also I think that Per-Hulk-Sainz-Mag and even Gros could be better than (current) Kimi, honestly the bar isn't very high, but again, opinions...