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Fernando Alonso vs Stoffel Vandoorne 2018


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#101 Loosenut

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:16

I do, as long as they let him do f1 plus something else he will stay, get a f1 fat check, promote Kimoa, stay relevant in the most important motorsports competition, and you never know, maybe someday he will enjoy some podiums.

Seriously? One of the most ferociously competitive drivers looks at his F1 career as an opportunity to make money, do other things, promote his stuff and maybe enjoy a podium one day?

 

If he told me that, I would tell him to give it up!



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#102 rabbitleader

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:32

Vandoorne needs to up his game with qualifying because it puts him at a huge race disadvantage. McLaren need Vandoorne to be along side or on Alonso's tail if McLaren are to get the edge on Renault and Haas or even edge Redbull if the chassis takes a leap forward. Right now, I'm not sure Vandoorne has what it takes.

Edited by rabbitleader, 12 April 2018 - 07:33.


#103 Oblivion

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:50

Vandoorne needs to up his game with qualifying because it puts him at a huge race disadvantage. McLaren need Vandoorne to be along side or on Alonso's tail if McLaren are to get the edge on Renault and Haas or even edge Redbull if the chassis takes a leap forward. Right now, I'm not sure Vandoorne has what it takes.

 

So far he's been exactly on Alonso's tail in every quali. This year he's much more confident and his current result aren't bad.



#104 rabbitleader

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 17:27

So far he's been exactly on Alonso's tail in every quali. This year he's much more confident and his current result aren't bad.

How can Vandoorne be on " Alonso's tail" this season when he is already 10 points behind after two races?

He is following the trend from last year where Alonso was never troubled by Vandoorne. Even Boulier admitted after Melbourne that they needed to help Vandoorne with his qualifying.

Edited by rabbitleader, 12 April 2018 - 17:28.


#105 garoidb

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 17:47

How can Vandoorne be on " Alonso's tail" this season when he is already 10 points behind after two races?

He is following the trend from last year where Alonso was never troubled by Vandoorne. Even Boulier admitted after Melbourne that they needed to help Vandoorne with his qualifying.

 

I think he has a little time yet, but it would be nice to see a really good performance from him sometime soon. The consistency can be added over time, but most top champions have had a stand-out performance in their first couple of years. I think it will come.



#106 Bliman

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:05

He had a stand-out race last race. With 11 overtakes. After a bad start where he had done nothing wrong because it was a mistake from Mclaren. And still he was one place after Alonso. That is pretty great in my book.

#107 MastaKink

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:09

Malaysia last year was really good too.



#108 JoeDede

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:25

I think he has a little time yet, but it would be nice to see a really good performance from him sometime soon. The consistency can be added over time, but most top champions have had a stand-out performance in their first couple of years. I think it will come.

 

Just remember the era where drivers could run a gazillion laps in current F1 car before they entered the first race, like Hamilton and others. This era they can't do that, so of course drivers don't do stand-out performances from the get go  :)

 

There is a major difference 


Edited by JoeDede, 12 April 2018 - 18:27.


#109 rabbitleader

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:25

He had a stand-out race last race. With 11 overtakes. After a bad start where he had done nothing wrong because it was a mistake from Mclaren. And still he was one place after Alonso. That is pretty great in my book.


Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.

#110 Muppetmad

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:33

Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.

That poor qualifying where he ended up right behind Alonso?



#111 Bliman

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 18:42

Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.

maybe he had a very good race after the start where he had done nothing wrong. How was he lucky? He basically was very unlucky with that start. And made a beautiful recovery.

Edited by Bliman, 12 April 2018 - 18:49.


#112 Hanzo

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 19:15

He had a stand-out race last race. With 11 overtakes. After a bad start where he had done nothing wrong because it was a mistake from Mclaren. And still he was one place after Alonso. That is pretty great in my book.

 

 

I have nothing against Stoffel, but you keep bringing up that 11 overtakes statistic...  I think you would agree with me that is not very representative.

I am sure he can drive a very good race with just one or two overtakes, The 11 overtakes happened because his poor start plus many cars on one stop strategy and very old tyres. Those overtakes dont mean too much in my opinion.



#113 martinskive

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 19:32

How mange years are McLaren gonna give vandoorn.? If her delivers another disappointing season, Will he be shown the door?

#114 Kegga2018

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 19:52

How mange years are McLaren gonna give vandoorn.? If her delivers another disappointing season, Will he be shown the door?


Why does he need to be shown the door? He's going up against one of the best drivers of all time, there's no shame in being bested by him.

#115 garoidb

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 19:54

Just remember the era where drivers could run a gazillion laps in current F1 car before they entered the first race, like Hamilton and others. This era they can't do that, so of course drivers don't do stand-out performances from the get go  :)

 

There is a major difference 

 

True enough, which is why I didn't judge him on last season. All I am saying is that there is usually some early sign of future greatness, even if is a single race. This season should show something, at some point. People don't get years and years to produce a breakthrough.



#116 JoeDede

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 19:57

True enough, which is why I didn't judge him on last season. All I am saying is that there is usually some early sign of future greatness, even if is a single race. This season should show something, at some point. People don't get years and years to produce a breakthrough.

 

Agree and at the same time, when he has had a dog of a car, that basically takes your confidence away, it may take a little longer. I just remember him racing Magnussen in Renault 3.5 and they were both really great racers. I'm sure now that the car is better he will come around  :) Maybe alreade in China? He looked confident in the F1 interview.


Edited by JoeDede, 12 April 2018 - 19:59.


#117 PistolPete

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 20:03

But according to McLaren/Alonso last years car was not a dog, but a quite good car with a bad engine. So I am not so sure...



#118 Bliman

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 20:11

I have nothing against Stoffel, but you keep bringing up that 11 overtakes statistic... I think you would agree with me that is not very representative.
I am sure he can drive a very good race with just one or two overtakes, The 11 overtakes happened because his poor start plus many cars on one stop strategy and very old tyres. Those overtakes dont mean too much in my opinion.

why are his overtakes not relevant? I think it is even more relevant, it was not like he has a super powerful car, where he can just slalom through the field. And another thing going from last place to 8 is a stand-out drive that sadly had minimal attention. And yes you can have a great race to if you overtake 1 or 2 cars. And you say his bad start maybe to imply it was his fault, but it is important to know that he had no fault in his start because it was of a miscalculation by Mclaren.

#119 Skalvand

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 22:58

Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.

 

That's unfair to Stoffel and you know it.

I wasn't happy with him either but that was primarily because of his bad start. That bad start is the only reason he was 20+ seconds behind Alonso at the line. But that bad start was - apparently - not his fault (miscalculation from McLaren). After that, he recovered excellent, he couldn't have done better than P8. 

 

I agree that his qualifying isn't superb and that he should show some progress this year, but let's not forget that he was only 1.5 tenth behind Fernando in Australia and 3 in Bahrain (half of last years gap). 3 Tenths is still too much for me, but it could've been totally different if Grosjean didn't made a mistake in Q1 (Alonso would've been out, Vandoorne not).

 

The big difference in points is obviously because of the first race where Alonso was just more lucky than Stoffel with that VSC. He would've been right behind him after the finish without that. You enforce your own luck with a good qualifying performance, so Stoffel should work on that, but just looking at gaps in time at the finish or in the standings is some seriously ridiculous scoreboard journalism.


Edited by Skalvand, 12 April 2018 - 23:03.


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#120 Eruobodo

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 23:59

That's unfair to Stoffel and you know it.

I wasn't happy with him either but that was primarily because of his bad start. That bad start is the only reason he was 20+ seconds behind Alonso at the line. But that bad start was - apparently - not his fault (miscalculation from McLaren). After that, he recovered excellent, he couldn't have done better than P8. 

 

I agree that his qualifying isn't superb and that he should show some progress this year, but let's not forget that he was only 1.5 tenth behind Fernando in Australia and 3 in Bahrain (half of last years gap). 3 Tenths is still too much for me, but it could've been totally different if Grosjean didn't made a mistake in Q1 (Alonso would've been out, Vandoorne not).

 

The big difference in points is obviously because of the first race where Alonso was just more lucky than Stoffel with that VSC. He would've been right behind him after the finish without that. You enforce your own luck with a good qualifying performance, so Stoffel should work on that, but just looking at gaps in time at the finish or in the standings is some seriously ridiculous scoreboard journalism.

Stoff did well to finish one place behind Fernando, he would have finished two or more places behind if the guys on the pit wall had given Fernando a decent strategy.



#121 Hanzo

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 00:15

why are his overtakes not relevant? I think it is even more relevant, it was not like he has a super powerful car, where he can just slalom through the field. And another thing going from last place to 8 is a stand-out drive that sadly had minimal attention.

 

Because his 11 overtakes do not mean he started 16th and finished 5th, he lost positions at the start and from that point it was damage limitation. I dont think it was a stand out drive by any means, but it was a good recovery, yes.

I am sure he will have plenty of opportunities this season to show what he is capable of, unlike last season.



#122 pivaro

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 16:28

Because his 11 overtakes do not mean he started 16th and finished 5th, he lost positions at the start and from that point it was damage limitation. I dont think it was a stand out drive by any means, but it was a good recovery, yes.

I am sure he will have plenty of opportunities this season to show what he is capable of, unlike last season.

By no fault of his own , the team admitted that Stoffel did everything right at the start .

So yes , it was a stand out drive , from last to eight , whatever you try to imply .

If you wanna be harsh , be atleast honest about you argumentation .



#123 Hanzo

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 18:01

By no fault of his own , the team admitted that Stoffel did everything right at the start .

So yes , it was a stand out drive , from last to eight , whatever you try to imply .

If you wanna be harsh , be atleast honest about you argumentation .

 

 

We simply have different standard/opinions, nothing to do with not being honest. 



#124 Bliman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 18:32

We simply have different standard/opinions, nothing to do with not being honest.

What place must have been considered good enough for your standard after he was last after the start (where he had no fault in)?



#125 Hanzo

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 18:46

What place must have been considered good enough for your standard after he was last after the start (where he had no fault in)?

 

If you think he was driver of the day, its ok.

As I said, in my opinion he did a good recovery, overtaking the slower cars and the cars with older tyres. He did his job.

What did you expect from him? Keep the last position all the race?



#126 Bliman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 18:57

If you think he was driver of the day, its ok.
As I said, in my opinion he did a good recovery, overtaking the slower cars and the cars with older tyres. He did his job.
What did you expect from him? Keep the last position all the race?

It is you that stated that you have different standards. Therefore I ask you what he would have done more to make it stand out? And I never stated he was the driver of the day.

#127 Hanzo

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 19:09

It is you that stated that you have different standards. Therefore I ask you what he would have done more to make it stand out? 

 

 

Nothing. His race was damage limitation since the first lap and he did a good job. Sorry if I did not see brilliance there.



#128 Bliman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 19:13

Nothing. His race was damage limitation since the first lap and he did a good job. Sorry if I did not see brilliance there.

you are forgiven(lol). They didn't show it on television, and that's most of the time crucial.

#129 StanBarrett2

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 19:17

How can Vandoorne be on " Alonso's tail" this season when he is already 10 points behind after two races?
 

Alonso has a 'long' tail..................................................................................................................................................................................................that's why Stoffel is far behind.

 

macoran

 

Alonso is also a much more 'balsy' driver

 

If you are called Stoffel in Holland.........hmmm....................you don't want to be named Stoffel in Holland


Edited by StanBarrett2, 13 April 2018 - 19:20.


#130 Maxioos

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 19:29

Nothing. His race was damage limitation since the first lap and he did a good job. Sorry if I did not see brilliance there.

 

I agree with you. What i want to see from VanDoorne is a start like Max last GP, starting p15, Lewis P9 and in lap 2 be on the tail of Lewis and drive/fight whole GP around same position as Lewis (on or close to podium). Or similar race that will be remembered for years and years like a surprise rain race win. His Pre-F1 CV and "expectation" gave indications he should be able to just like Alonso place car higher than where it belongs and that piece "extra" he hasn't shown yet. Very stable and good basis, but the "sparkle" is missing until now.



#131 Loosenut

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 15:35

I think if I were Fernando Alonso, I would visit Maranello on monday morning, cap in hand and offer to drive their car for free in 2019..

#132 Joseki

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 16:28

Quali was basically decided in Q1 for the two: the driver who would end up higher would have the tow in the final run of Q2.

 

I'd say quali is once again for Alonso. Vandoorne reached a valid baseline but he lacks 2-3 tenths to Alonso.



#133 Bliman

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 16:33

Quali was basically decided in Q1 for the two: the driver who would end up higher would have the tow in the final run of
I'd say quali is once again for Alonso. Vandoorne reached a valid baseline but he lacks 2-3 tenths to Alonso.

Seems fair.

#134 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 16:33

Why does he need to be shown the door? He's going up against one of the best drivers of all time, there's no shame in being bested by him.

Lando Norris will be peeking for a seat next year, by the looks of things.

#135 jwill189

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 17:02

Lando Norris will be peeking for a seat next year, by the looks of things.

 

Kimi was anywhere from 2 tenths to 9 tenths slower than Alonso, yet he still has a ride after years of abysmal performances.

 

Vandoorne is much closer to Alonso on a consistent basis, similar to Button.  He has done nothing to warrant losing his standing with McLaren.

 

If Norris gets a seat, it will be if Alonso moves on or retires.



#136 PistolPete

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 17:28

Kimi was anywhere from 2 tenths to 9 tenths slower than Alonso, yet he still has a ride after years of abysmal performances.

 

Vandoorne is much closer to Alonso on a consistent basis, similar to Button.  He has done nothing to warrant losing his standing with McLaren.

 

If Norris gets a seat, it will be if Alonso moves on or retires.

 

Honestly speaking this far I would not expect Vandoorne to be able to beat the majority of the grid. So for a team like McLaren if they keep him, it is more a testimony of how they've slide down the ramp of glory themselves. 



#137 Borko

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 17:32

Vandoorne is doing just fine. It's hard to look superfast when your teammate is Alonso.

#138 PistolPete

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 17:35

Vandoorne is doing just fine. It's hard to look superfast when your teammate is Alonso.

 

This statement is too easy... If Vandoorne was really that good you would expect him to show just glimpse of the ability to dominate, even against a guy like Alonso. 



#139 blacky

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 18:09

VAN got more competitive with every try in qualifying, but I would also agree that he lacked 2-3 tenths today. Like I said last week, there will be qualis like today where ALO is just superior, so it's unfortunate for him that he didn't use his chance like last saturday.



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#140 denthierry

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 18:11

Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.


Yes or Alonso was unlucky to finish only one place ahead of Stoff considering he was 20 seconds ahead... due to poor racecraft.

#141 Ramses1348

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 18:13

Vandoorne was lucky to finish one place behind Alonso considering he was 20 seconds away....due to poor qualifying.


Easier to build a gap when you are using more fuel than allowed, hence almost running out of fuel at the last lap

#142 garoidb

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 18:38

Easier to build a gap when you are using more fuel than allowed, hence almost running out of fuel at the last lap

 

Almost running out of fuel is what you're supposed to do.



#143 Ramses1348

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 19:11

Almost running out of fuel is what you're supposed to do.


Lol not if you have to crawl to make it to the finish and let you be lapped in order to have to do one less lap

#144 Joseki

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 19:12

Lol not if you have to crawl to make it to the finish and let you be lapped in order to have to do one less lap


Racecraft.

#145 garoidb

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 19:24

Lol not if you have to crawl to make it to the finish and let you be lapped in order to have to do one less lap

 

Not doing the extra lap was smart. It wasn't going to cost him a race position so why wouldn't he do it? 



#146 sopa

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 19:28

Vandoore or Norris? Norris or Vandoorne for 2019?

 

That's a difficult question for sure.

 

But the answer may be made easier once Alonso takes a decision about his future. How long can he tolerate barely competing for points all season with a straight face? Something has got to give and he has got some head-scratching to do this year.



#147 Kev00

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 20:47

Honestly, if there’s one driver I expect to be in a McLaren next year it’s Norris. I expect him to be top 2 or 3 in GP2, Carlin seem to have the tyres sussed. And I think Norris has enough money that he doesn’t have to wait. I can see him telling McLaren to use him or lose him, and I’m sure Toro Rosso will take him, with the prospect of being a future Red bull driver. I doubt that Alonso will be convinced to stay for another year but if he does it will be Vandoorne to lose out.

#148 PistolPete

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 20:50

Honestly, if there’s one driver I expect to be in a McLaren next year it’s Norris. I expect him to be top 2 or 3 in GP2, Carlin seem to have the tyres sussed. And I think Norris has enough money that he doesn’t have to wait. I can see him telling McLaren to use him or lose him, and I’m sure Toro Rosso will take him, with the prospect of being a future Red bull driver. I doubt that Alonso will be convinced to stay for another year but if he does it will be Vandoorne to lose out.

 

If he has enough money then most likely he can buy out Vandoorne at McLaren.



#149 RPM40

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 21:24

Reasonably disappointed in Vandoorne so far. He's almost consistently behind Fernando.



#150 MrRat

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 21:57

But according to McLaren/Alonso last years car was not a dog, but a quite good car with a bad engine. So I am not so sure...

Plenty of evidence for MCL32 being a good car. They seem to have lost the way because of the PU change but it's off topic.