1820 replies to this topic

[Fatgadget]

Hard to know one way or the other without some actual vision of what happened.

 

Marks on the halo don't prove anything though.

I think they prove something came into contact with said halo...Preventing that something  coming into contact with the drivers head. Precisely it's purpose.

[Tsarwash]

I think they prove something came into contact with said halo...Preventing that something  coming into contact with the drivers head. Precisely it's purpose.

Your first sentence does not definitely prove the second sentence true, logically. I am in general in favour of the Halo, but I do not think the car would definitely have hit Leclerc's helmet today if the halo had not been there. In fact I think the location of the marks on the Halo more or less prove that is wasn't about to come into contact with the helmet, but I might be wrong. 

[SophieB]

Different angle
 
 

Autosport‏Verified account @autosport 2h2 hours ago

More

Damage on @Charles_Leclerc's halo @Motors_images

[SenorSjon]

If a sore thumb sticks out, it gets hit easier. Looking at the crash, Alonso bumped over the roll hoop and wouldn't enter the cockpit area.

Perhaps they shouldn't make the cars heavier each year.

Edited by SenorSjon, 26 August 2018 - 15:38.

[Mat13]

I think they prove something came into contact with said halo...Preventing that something coming into contact with the drivers head. Precisely it's purpose.

What it doesn’t prove is whether that something would ever have gone near the drivers head anyway. Marks on the halo prove something hit the halo, not it’s possible trajectory had the halo not been there.

Has anyone got a protractor handy...?

[ExFlagMan]

 

Marks on the halo don't prove anything though.

 

The marks on the cockpit surround/sidepod are probably of more importance - if the halo was not the there undertray would probably have landed on the top of the cockpit surround/drivers head/hands, given that there appear to be some crack marks of the left hand portion of the surround.

[Tsarwash]

Well you just don’t know do you? One thing is for sure, if it wasn’t for the halo, Alonso’s McLaren would have landed right on his head. Just look at the damage of the halo of Leclerc.

Sorry but that is just total bullshit that you feel you can say that with any certainty. 

[Tsarwash]

Different angle
 
 

Autosport‏Verified account @autosport 2h2 hours ago

More

Damage on @Charles_Leclerc's halo @Motors_images

That Halo looks quite seriously damaged, and slightly bent downwards. A little bit worrying considering the claim that it could withstand the impact of seventy five London buses each being driver by an overweight blue whale. 

[sergeym]

If a sore thumb sticks out, it gets hit easier. Looking at the crash, Alonso bumped over the roll hoop and wouldn't enter the cockpit area.

Perhaps they shouldn't make the cars heavier each year.

 

Not sure about that. From the mark on halo it looks like without halo Alonso's car would have landed right in front of the driver. So it would be totally possible for LeClerk helmet to hit Alonso's car as they both were moving. Not as bad as car landing on driver, but still very dangerous. 

[Vielleicht]

From the replays, I reckon the halo may have saved LeClrec's hand(s)/arm(s) from injury if anything. Not a head (yet) but still a success.

Edited by Vielleicht, 26 August 2018 - 15:49.

[rockdude101]

Regardless of my own opinion, from looking at social media the HALO has turned around it's image problem and is largely supported by the fans and media now. Unless Aeroscreen becomes a reality and is shown to be as effective, if not more, HALO is here to stay. 

 

For my own opinion, I respect the safety device doing it's job but aesthetically it's a total disgrace and I will not purchase any merchandise with it on, including the new game they're pushing. 

[Ben24]

That Halo looks quite seriously damaged, and slightly bent downwards. A little bit worrying considering the claim that it could withstand the impact of seventy five London buses each being driver by an overweight blue whale. 

 

That's what I thought too. Especially worrying when they keep increasing the weight of the cars.

 

Also got the impression the halo played a part in ripping the side of Alonso's car apart so badly. Could've potentially added to the danger with more heavy parts from within the car flying about.

 

Can't say I'm convinced either way on the halo yet.

[SenorSjon]

That Halo looks quite seriously damaged, and slightly bent downwards. A little bit worrying considering the claim that it could withstand the impact of seventy five London buses each being driver by an overweight blue whale.

Alonso's ego accounts for a few tonnes of extra weight.

[Scotracer]

If they can make the Halo narrower diameter it would really help.

 

In F2 and Super Formula, they do not run with the 25mm radius fairing that they can in F1 and as a result, you can see considerably more of the drivers. They need to go down that route for F1 - sod off the aero impact. 

[l2k2]

If a sore thumb sticks out, it gets hit easier. Looking at the crash, Alonso bumped over the roll hoop and wouldn't enter the cockpit area.

Perhaps they shouldn't make the cars heavier each year.

 

Where is the damage in the roll hoop? I also assumed in the live situation, that it was the roll hoop that was hit. Because, the (Alonso's) car certainly did change it's trajectory. So, it must have hit something in the Sauber with large force. Thus, my large surprise when there was an onboard footage from LeClerk's car. As, usually when anything hits the roll hoop, it also takes the cameras with it.

PS. From the photos, it is quite evident, that nothing of any significant mass (i.e. mayby some small debris might have, but mostly just the steam from Alonso's radiators) did actually touch the roll hoop.

PPS. Was Alonso's suspension broken before the impact, or was it (only) the impact with Halo that broke those and sent the tyre away from the cockpit area? The impact with Halo certainly was quite hefty (and, well, dynamic loads are always far greater than static ones).

EDIT. Do never click the "switch to full" from your phone, or you'll suffer the few days of having both phone an laptop using the same mode (and, as "full" mode doesn't really work with phone, it's "mobile" for laptop too). And, with laptop, in mobile mode, the line change in the editor does not really make one in the real post. Must add the "br" tags by hand... please fix this damn silly bug...

Edited by l2k2, 26 August 2018 - 15:58.

[Eff1]

Its always difficult to say with certainty whether the Halo has saved a life.

I think we can all agree that it has certainly prevented the ingress of large debris/other cars into the cockpit. I’ve seen at least 2 examples now in F1 and F2.

That’s good enough for me.

[Kalmake]

That Halo looks quite seriously damaged, and slightly bent downwards. A little bit worrying considering the claim that it could withstand the impact of seventy five London buses each being driver by an overweight blue whale. 

Only "serious" damage is to cf aero covering.

[l2k2]

That Halo looks quite seriously damaged, and slightly bent downwards. A little bit worrying considering the claim that it could withstand the impact of seventy five London buses each being driver by an overweight blue whale. 

 

I am not sure if it is actually bent downwards by that much? Looking from the onboards, the text "LEC" is only a few pixels lower after the impact than before. But, yes, it is certainly down by about a few millimetres... tells something about the impact... and, given that Alonso's trajectory would not have simply passed over the nose even without Halo, it would certainly hit at least the hands. Head, impossible to say.

[NotAPineapple]

https://twitter.com/...730012036431872

 

Pretty clearly landed on top of the halo.

Edited by NotAPineapple, 26 August 2018 - 16:08.

[Diablobb81]

Did its job today.

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 August 2018 - 16:25.

[Jvr]

Halo saved Leclerc life today: Alonso's right front wheel was going directly where Leclerc's helmet was and its suspension was broken by the impact to the halo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jvr, 26 August 2018 - 19:21.

[BalanceUT]

Your first sentence does not definitely prove the second sentence true, logically. I am in general in favour of the Halo, but I do not think the car would definitely have hit Leclerc's helmet today if the halo had not been there. In fact I think the location of the marks on the Halo more or less prove that is wasn't about to come into contact with the helmet, but I might be wrong. 

You are logically correct... but, if I were driving that car (fat chance) I would surely be happy that halo was there. 

[BalanceUT]

That's what I thought too. Especially worrying when they keep increasing the weight of the cars.

 

Also got the impression the halo played a part in ripping the side of Alonso's car apart so badly. Could've potentially added to the danger with more heavy parts from within the car flying about.

 

Can't say I'm convinced either way on the halo yet.

I think Alonso's car was ripped open by the rear of LeClerc's car. 

[Beri]

I think Alonso's car was ripped open by the rear of LeClerc's car.

Indeed, when that tangerine went up, the sidepod was already gone.
Opinions set aside, the HALO proved why it's been developed. I still think a poo infested hemorrhoid is a prettier sight for my sore eyes compared to the HALO. But it has proven it's worth today.

[Pete_f1]

Don't like the halo.





But it did its job today.

[Gorma]

It's a good thing it wasn't postponed.

[phrank]

Halo saved Leclerc life today: Alonso's right front wheel was going directly where Leclerc's helmet was and it's suspension was broken by the impact to the halo.

 

 

 

 

In your pictures the wheel is not even close to the helmet and moving away

[pRy]

Looks like the underbody of Alonso's car is what struck the halo which does make you wonder what might have been had the halo not been there. Perhaps the FIA will be able to clarify if a life was saved today.

[Jvr]

In your pictures the wheel is not even close to the helmet and moving away

Are you serious? The halo broke the front wheel suspension that otherwise would have been broken by Leclerc's head.

[Jvr]

Looks like the underbody of Alonso's car is what struck the halo which does make you wonder what might have been had the halo not been there. Perhaps the FIA will be able to clarify if a life was saved today.

Negative. It is definitely Alonso's right front wheel.

[Ivanhoe]

There will never gonna be proof the halo saved a life for some here. As long as there are no casualties with accidents like this I can live with that. Who needs proof.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 26 August 2018 - 17:37.

[Jvr]

Well, anybody not believing halo saved Leclerc, go through this video with slow motion from multiple angles and try to claim then that without halo, Alonso's right front wheel would not have hit his head.

 

 

https://youtu.be/fuRRLkc4qUo?t=41

Edited by Jvr, 26 August 2018 - 17:56.

[ExFlagMan]

Looks like the halo is supporting Alonso's car in this shot.

I wonder if any of the 'halo haters' on here would be willing to state whether they would prefer to be in this situation with or without the halo?

[MargaretM37]

I find it increasingly difficult to understand the viewpoint of those arguing for the abolition of the halo because they believe that Leclerc would have been ok without it. At what point would they start to advocate its use- when a driver has been decapitated? 

Edited by MargaretM37, 26 August 2018 - 17:56.

[Tsarwash]

The pictures and videos seen individually can be misleading. From one angle it looks as though the front wheel strikes the Halo, from another angle it looks as though the underside of the car hits the halo and the whole car pivots on the Halo. Saying words such as 'definitely' while only putting forward one of these camera angles just seems a bit narrow minded. When the FIA look at this, they are going to look at ALL of the media involved as well as study the wrecks of the cars. 

 

Anybody stating with any level of certainty that the Halo either saved or didn't save Leclerc's life today is jumping the gun without enough evidence being available to them. 

 

In any case I am certainly glad the Halo was there today, even if it does look pants on the cars. 

[Seanspeed]

I find it increasingly difficult to understand the viewpoint of those arguing for the abolition of the halo because they believe that Leclerc would have been ok without it. At what point would they start to advocate its use- when a driver has been decapitated? 

I've never been against better head protection for the drivers when complaining about the halo.  I just think the halo is a painfully ugly and incomplete solution to the problem.  

[ConsiderAndGo]

I’m the halo’s fiercest critic.


Did the job today. Good.

[l12mcg]

Yeah I’m going with Alonso’s car probably wouldn’t have hit Leclerc’s head and it would have been like Gro/Alo in the same place.

But it’s a probably, we can’t say for certain. All we can say is the halo took a pretty hefty hit, and everyone walked away.

Considering it’s a right corner his left could have been above the front of the cockpit and we could have seen a serious arm injury.

Maybe nothing would have happened but the halo made sure nothing happened.

The halo is there to save a life in a very rare accident. Maybe we saw that today, maybe we didn’t.

The FIA will check and will probably tell us.

People will always be convinced either way. Because lots of people are unreasonable and assume the FIA is going to lie to make the ugly thing acceptable.

It did it’s job today by taking the risk of that accident having very serious consequences and making that next to impossible.

[phrank]

Are you serious? The halo broke the front wheel suspension that otherwise would have been broken by Leclerc's head.

Nonsense

[Beri]

Nonsense

What is?

[Jvr]

The pictures and videos seen individually can be misleading. From one angle it looks as though the front wheel strikes the Halo, from another angle it looks as though the underside of the car hits the halo and the whole car pivots on the Halo. Saying words such as 'definitely' while only putting forward one of these camera angles just seems a bit narrow minded. When the FIA look at this, they are going to look at ALL of the media involved as well as study the wrecks of the cars. 

 

Anybody stating with any level of certainty that the Halo either saved or didn't save Leclerc's life today is jumping the gun without enough evidence being available to them. 

 

In any case I am certainly glad the Halo was there today, even if it does look pants on the cars. 

If you just watch the FOM video from the 41 seconds point I just shared, you can see that it is definitely Alonso's right front wheel that hits the halo and as a consequence:

 

1. It breaks Alonso's front suspension that is intact while early airborne move but is broken and twisted upwards after the contact. Also the wheel turns according to the contact direction.

2. Flips Alonso's car backwards and to the left (when seen from Alonso's perspective)

3. Knocks Leclerc's car to the left (when seen from Leclerc's angle)

 

I do not know what more is needed for a word "definitely" when also those other angles show the same happening.

[TennisUK]

Well, anybody not believing halo saved Leclerc, go through this video with slow motion from multiple angles and try to claim then that without halo, Alonso's right front wheel would not have hit his head.
 
 
https://youtu.be/fuRRLkc4qUo?t=41

That doesn't include the bit a few seconds earlier where Alonso's car bounces off the Halo instead of Leclerc's head, which is clear to see in this video:
 
https://twitter.com/...730012036431872
 
EDIT: Just made a handy gif showing the moment the halo deflected Alonso's car:
 

Edited by TennisUK, 26 August 2018 - 18:18.

[Jvr]

That doesn't include the bit a few seconds earlier where Alonso's car bounces off the Halo instead of Leclerc's head, which is clear to see in this video:

 

https://twitter.com/...730012036431872

That bouncing move is due to the Alonso's right front wheel hitting the halo. If you watch carefully, you can see exactly that also in that clip.

Edited by Jvr, 26 August 2018 - 18:15.

[TennisUK]

That bouncing move is due to the Alonso's right front wheel hitting the halo. If you watch carefully, you can see exactly that also in that clip.

Gif above your post now. Even if it is the wheel rather than the chassis that is deflected, it's irrelevant, as the chassis was heading right for his head until it was deflected.

[Tsarwash]

If you just watch the FOM video from the 41 seconds point I just shared, you can see that it is definitely Alonso's right front wheel that hits the halo and as a consequence:

 

1. It breaks Alonso's front suspension that is intact while early airborne move but is broken and twisted upwards after the contact. Also the wheel turns according to the contact direction.

2. Flips Alonso's car backwards and to the left (when seen from Alonso's perspective)

3. Knocks Leclerc's car to the left (when seen from Leclerc's angle)

 

I do not know what more is needed for a word "definitely" when also those other angles show the same happening.

From the videos and the photo that Nico posted on twitter, it does look as though the tyre hit the Halo. However, if it is only the tyres that hit the Halo, and the Halo is that damaged, it does raise questions about how strong the Halo actually is. I am wondering whether the underside of the car hit it as well. The Halo looks cracked and slightly bent. 

[Pentecost]

Can't believe there's a debate going on about this. Does it really matter if Alonso's car would have hit Leclerc's head or not? Do we really need a decapitation first before justifying the halo?
It has shown its purpose today, because it was a potentially life threatening situation. If it would have hit his head or not, is really not the point.

[TennisUK]

From the videos and the photo that Nico posted on twitter, it does look as though the tyre hit the Halo. However, if it is only the tyres that hit the Halo, and the Halo is that damaged, it does raise questions about how strong the Halo actually is. I am wondering whether the underside of the car hit it as well. The Halo looks cracked and slightly bent.

The bit that was cracked was the carbon sheath of the halo, not the titanium frame. It doesn't look bent to me - just damage to the cowling.

[Tsarwash]

The bit that was cracked was the carbon sheath of the halo, not the titanium frame. It doesn't look bent to me - just damage to the cowling.

Is the carbon bit there to provide extra protection or strength to the titanium ? 

[TennisUK]

Is the carbon bit there to provide extra protection or strength to the titanium ?

Aero (Titanium is a fair bit strong than CF...).

Edited by TennisUK, 26 August 2018 - 18:33.

[SophieB]

Charles Leclerc‏Verified account @Charles_Leclerc 52m52 minutes ago

More

End of the race in the 1st corner. Frustrating. Never been a fan of the halo but I have to say that I was very happy to have it over my head today ! : @f1gregoryheirman / @fotoformulak