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The Halo is here - reactions and developments 2018 [split topic]


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#1701 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 18:19

1.8 kg! :eek:   If that's accurate it explains why these cars are so heavy.

 

 

If that piece was indeed 1.8 kgs, then it was primarily because of added ballast in order to optimize the weight balance of the car, and help it to comply to the rules about the mandated weight distribution figures.

And I learned the following a few days ago at this forum: putting at the outer edge of the front wing instead of in the senter part is in order to shift the left-right balance of the car. Certain tracks favour a car with a weight bias to one side.

 

Also, just for example: I found out today that the batterey on the F1 cars are limited to a minimum of 20 and a maximum of 25 kgs.

 

 

 

Off-Topic: about this left-right bias, the most extreme applications of that can be seen at Indy. the charismatic Indy Roadsters of the 50's and early sixties had the majoiry of the weight restin on the inside tires. Primarily in order to reduce the tire wear on the outside tires at the highspeed oval.

Certain F1 tracks might indeed be suitable for using the similar principles though nowher near as extreme as at Indy.



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#1702 TF110

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 21:30

This is completely untrue and an insult to those involved in the years of research that went into it

What "years of research"? It's been on the cars for less than 2 years and is basically a roll bar/hoop, which has been around for decades, how is there research involved that is considered "development" in it? Please explain how it's developed from the concept introduced to the cars. There is no development of it. It seems like you're talking about development of the halo in general, I'm talking about the subject of this thread, development since it's "here", as in on the cars. There's been none unless you're talking about the aero fairings on the top of it. Looking at the thing, it's basically bolted to the chassis. So that is an easy observation that they just put it on the cars. There's nothing that's changed philosophically about these cars since 2017's new rules. And the halo was introduced in 2018. Therefor it was ADDED to the car, not made with it, so there isn't any development of it at all. If there's a new halo that is somehow different from the ones featured today, that would be development. So yes, it does seem like an afterthought and a quick-fix because it's just put on the cars. 



#1703 saudoso

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 21:49

Here it’s the same. The straw that broke the camel’s back.

Never seen it being used in anger.

#1704 Tsarwash

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 13:49

The drivers don't get to make that decision either.

That is true. But they are closer to the decision making process than we are and rightly so. 



#1705 Claudius

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 18:49

I don't even notice the halo anymore, just part of the car.

Don't understad the fuss about it tbh. Cars change all the time, halo is not any different.



#1706 CountDooku

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:06

Wow the halo just saved Bottas there.

#1707 Clatter

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:11

1.8 kg! :eek:   If that's accurate it explains why these cars are so heavy.

 


How so? The minimum weight is set in the regs, and it's normal to use ballast to reach that limit.

#1708 BalanceUT

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 04:57

My opinion on the aesthetics is the same as always - I still hate the look of it and it really truly has spoiled the look of the cars... But it will save lives so there isn't much left to debate on that side.

The main debate now should be whether or not the look of it can be improved?

The designers of F1 cars, with or without halos, do not in any way whatsoever take aesthetics into account in their design. The sole criteria is to optimize performance of the car on the tracks for the coming season within the rules of the sport. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing. If by some strange alchemy the fastest design happened to be a flat 1 meter by 1 meter vertical wall at the front of the car and it was within the rules, the designers would 100% do it. 

 

Any fan's perception of aesthetics of any racing car is purely epiphenomenal compared to the actual design goals for the car. 



#1709 BalanceUT

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 05:01

I admit I failed to post names and approval of people who cried out hell about the Halo critisize FIA for not preventing Ferrari to let leclerc continue.
But I don't bother to dig through this thread and forum for such approval. I'm sure however that among us there are people who condemned FIA for that failure and critisize the Halo.

BTW, what is needed for you to admit that the halo has saved a driver from worse? Or since you are so outspoken against it, do you hhave a better alternative in mind for added protection of driver's heads and faces?
I don't like the halo either. But I don't wanna think about what could have happend had this endplate hit Hamilton in the face of his helmet. Imagine what would have happened had he had something similar as Felipe in 2009. Imagine the headlines and outcries....

I think the FIA failed very badly in not black-flagging Leclerc. 



#1710 Beri

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 07:08

What "years of research"? It's been on the cars for less than 2 years and is basically a roll bar/hoop, which has been around for decades, how is there research involved that is considered "development" in it? Please explain how it's developed from the concept introduced to the cars. There is no development of it. It seems like you're talking about development of the halo in general, I'm talking about the subject of this thread, development since it's "here", as in on the cars. There's been none unless you're talking about the aero fairings on the top of it. Looking at the thing, it's basically bolted to the chassis. So that is an easy observation that they just put it on the cars. There's nothing that's changed philosophically about these cars since 2017's new rules. And the halo was introduced in 2018. Therefor it was ADDED to the car, not made with it, so there isn't any development of it at all. If there's a new halo that is somehow different from the ones featured today, that would be development. So yes, it does seem like an afterthought and a quick-fix because it's just put on the cars.


I call bull on your entire story.

#1711 Sterzo

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 10:03

The designers of F1 cars, with or without halos, do not in any way whatsoever take aesthetics into account in their design. The sole criteria is to optimize performance of the car on the tracks for the coming season within the rules of the sport. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing. If by some strange alchemy the fastest design happened to be a flat 1 meter by 1 meter vertical wall at the front of the car and it was within the rules, the designers would 100% do it. 

 

Any fan's perception of aesthetics of any racing car is purely epiphenomenal compared to the actual design goals for the car. 

Speaking from memory, I think that Newey, Barnard and Southgate have all referred to this in their books. They all say they do take into account aesthetics. Barnard in particular is quite obsessive about even hidden details looking right. However, I am splitting a hair, and your basic point is obviously right: where there's a choice, they'll go for performance every time.


Edited by Sterzo, 27 October 2019 - 10:04.