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Lewis Hamilton vs Valtteri Bottas 2018


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#5501 Nonesuch

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:31

The way Wolff says it tells that the decision is already done and Bottas is gone for '20. If something miraculous happens and he beats Lewis and wins the championship, he will get the extension but even Wolff admits that beating Lewis is now harder than ever.

 

Performing at the same level doesn't necessarily mean beat Hamilton, I'd think. He just needs to be doing the best he can, which he clearly wasn't - even if he also suffered some of the worst breaks among the top teams. Only Ricciardo's half-baked car made sure he had it worse. Bottas could easily have won multiple races had a small number of things gone slightly differently.

 

But at the end of the day, Bottas has to face the reality of a rather embarrassing WDC position in a car that ran to a comfortable WCC wrap-up before the season was even over. He clearly needs to do better than he did in 2018.

 


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#5502 P123

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:38

Sounds like he's talking Bottas up- as in, we know what he can do and last year wasn't it.

#5503 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 17:34

"Valtteri Bottas must perform at the same level as Lewis Hamilton in the 2019 Formula 1 season to keep his Mercedes race seat for next year, says boss Toto Wolff."

 

https://www.autospor...eeping-his-seat

 

"Ocon signed by Mercedes for 2020 season."



#5504 RECKLESS

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 17:53

77 will show y'all.

#5505 7MGTEsup

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 14:47

77 will show y'all.

 

History says otherwise



#5506 GiorgioF1

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 15:38

History says otherwise

 

Maybe he meant that 77 will show how to be the best wingman ever?



#5507 Fatgadget

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 16:00

Maybe he meant that 77 will show how to be the best wingman ever?

As long as Merc continue bagging  WDCs as  well as  WCCs  with the current setup....Why fix something that is not broken?



#5508 BRG

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 18:42

As long as Merc continue bagging  WDCs as  well as  WCCs  with the current setup....Why fix something that is not broken?

Because Ferrari now have two good drivers and could snatch the WCC away if Bottas performs as usual.  His job is perfectly clear:  follow Lewis home in #2 place, or win if Lewis or his car drops the ball somehow.  But so far, Valtteri has failed to meet this job description.

 

Nor did Kimi, and he has paid the price.



#5509 f1paul

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 20:56

77 will show y'all.

Is that the number of wins Hamilton will get to this season?

 

How will that prove anything?

 

:p 



#5510 FrontWing

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 22:06

Because Ferrari now have two good drivers and could snatch the WCC away if Bottas performs as usual. His job is perfectly clear: follow Lewis home in #2 place, or win if Lewis or his car drops the ball somehow. But so far, Valtteri has failed to meet this job description.

Nor did Kimi, and he has paid the price.


Let's see how Leclerc does first.

#5511 garoidb

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 23:11

Because Ferrari now have two good drivers and could snatch the WCC away if Bottas performs as usual.  His job is perfectly clear:  follow Lewis home in #2 place, or win if Lewis or his car drops the ball somehow.  But so far, Valtteri has failed to meet this job description.

 

Nor did Kimi, and he has paid the price.

 

Mercedes should be careful what they wish for. How would things be if he were to get as close to Lewis as Nico was? The 2018 driver line-up worked well overall for Mercedes.

 

In any case, I suspect they have opted for Ocon for next year. That will be a point of possible interest, just as Leclerc will be this year. 



#5512 GiorgioF1

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 19:45

Bottas is no longer sponsored by Wihuri. This is what Wihuri boss had to say about him:

 

"Everything you think is disappointed. Partly it was not his own fault,some of it was due to stables and technical worries, but I think he was quite weak in the end of the year" Aarnio-Wihuri told Ilta-Sanomat.

 

"After all, it's a difficult place to be a Hamiltonian teammate, but Valtteri was left behind by many others and was only at the fifth overall. It was a pretty weak result."

 

"There's no longer any talk with Valtter. 20 years, I have supported him. After all, it's been pretty much done".

 

https://www.is.fi/fo...0005960313.html



#5513 Touchdown

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 19:53

Bottas is no longer sponsored by Wihuri. This is what Wihuri boss had to say about him:

 

"Everything you think is disappointed. Partly it was not his own fault,some of it was due to stables and technical worries, but I think he was quite weak in the end of the year" Aarnio-Wihuri told Ilta-Sanomat.

 

"After all, it's a difficult place to be a Hamiltonian teammate, but Valtteri was left behind by many others and was only at the fifth overall. It was a pretty weak result."

 

"There's no longer any talk with Valtter. 20 years, I have supported him. After all, it's been pretty much done".

 

https://www.is.fi/fo...0005960313.html

Wow, that's an extraordinary statement from a (former) sponsor.



#5514 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 20:15

Surely not... That's brutal.

#5515 Marklar

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 21:28

Pretty much means that he is done with F1 if he isnt driving absolute top level next year. So far he had the security of having enough money to pay a seat elsewhere if he is failing. Now that is gone too. Wolff's comments make now a lot more sense too.

(Well, unless Renault/McLaren want him. They have drivers like Sainz & Hulk with not so much money and similar talent too after all)

Edited by Marklar, 09 January 2019 - 21:32.


#5516 noriaki

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 21:44

People are truly jumping the gun here. And even if Bottas wont match Lewis (because so many drivers can), there's Grosjean who still has a seat without bringing money fwiw so suspect Haas would be interested in VB at the very least.

Edited by noriaki, 09 January 2019 - 21:45.


#5517 SonGoku

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 21:50

Bottas is no longer sponsored by Wihuri. This is what Wihuri boss had to say about him:

 

"Everything you think is disappointed. Partly it was not his own fault,some of it was due to stables and technical worries, but I think he was quite weak in the end of the year" Aarnio-Wihuri told Ilta-Sanomat.

 

"After all, it's a difficult place to be a Hamiltonian teammate, but Valtteri was left behind by many others and was only at the fifth overall. It was a pretty weak result."

 

"There's no longer any talk with Valtter. 20 years, I have supported him. After all, it's been pretty much done".

 

https://www.is.fi/fo...0005960313.html

 

What a massive overreaction always everywhere, I guess Barrichello, Massa and Kimi should also be long gone then after a disappointing season. I guess being Lewis' teammate really puts the spotlight on you.


Edited by SonGoku, 09 January 2019 - 21:50.


#5518 Junky

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:50

Bottas is no longer sponsored by Wihuri. This is what Wihuri boss had to say about him:

 

"Everything you think is disappointed. Partly it was not his own fault,some of it was due to stables and technical worries, but I think he was quite weak in the end of the year" Aarnio-Wihuri told Ilta-Sanomat.

 

"After all, it's a difficult place to be a Hamiltonian teammate, but Valtteri was left behind by many others and was only at the fifth overall. It was a pretty weak result."

 

"There's no longer any talk with Valtter. 20 years, I have supported him. After all, it's been pretty much done".

 

https://www.is.fi/fo...0005960313.html

 

Outch. One of the most brutal statements from a sponsor that I recall.



#5519 sopa

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:28

Hell, usually sponsors have been loyal to their drivers through thick and thin, like PDVSA with Maldonado, or whatever-was-the-name-of-the-group with Ericsson. Irrespective of how they performed.

 

Bottas is after all in a top team and getting lots of exposure. I would understand sponsor dropping him if he dropped out of a top team, but that hasn't happened.


Edited by sopa, 10 January 2019 - 12:29.


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#5520 Bleu

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:47

Bottas is in the top team but at the same time Wihuri has had smaller role compared to other Mercedes partners, which was part of the reason Wihuri ended the deal. I can partly agree that for the company it is more sensible to move the money from Bottas to younger aspiring drivers on their road to F1.

 

He may still have a drive in F1 if Mercedes decides to dump him. While not in top team, some mid-grid teams may look for a driver who has experience like him. Racing Point, Haas etc.



#5521 Touchdown

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:50

Bottas is in the top team but at the same time Wihuri has had smaller role compared to other Mercedes partners, which was part of the reason Wihuri ended the deal. I can partly agree that for the company it is more sensible to move the money from Bottas to younger aspiring drivers on their road to F1.

 

He may still have a drive in F1 if Mercedes decides to dump him. While not in top team, some mid-grid teams may look for a driver who has experience like him. Racing Point, Haas etc.

I could see him fitting at Haas in 2020 - presuming either one of Grosjean or Magnussen doesn't survive that far.



#5522 Piif

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 13:53

Well, he is a race winner and has been in a top team multiple years. It would be mad for the likes of HAAS not to want him for the experience factor alone.


Edited by Piif, 10 January 2019 - 13:53.


#5523 sopa

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 13:57

If Massa could continue his F1 career after getting obliterated by Alonso year-after-year, surely Bottas can as well. Heck, also Raikkonen found a drive after his Ferrari years despite turning 40 years old soon.



#5524 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 13:59

If Massa could continue his F1 career after getting obliterated by Alonso year-after-year, surely Bottas can as well. Heck, also Raikkonen found a drive after his Ferrari years despite turning 40 years old soon.

 

not really comparable. Massa was coming after an injury, and almost winning a title in a team with Kimi. So Ferrari were not going to judge him instantly after the come back, as they knew he showed speed before in his career.

 

Bottas doesn't have that luxury.



#5525 sopa

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 14:08

not really comparable. Massa was coming after an injury, and almost winning a title in a team with Kimi. So Ferrari were not going to judge him instantly after the come back, as they knew he showed speed before in his career.

 

Bottas doesn't have that luxury.

 

It's not a matter about Ferrari judging here, but continuing your career after Ferrari. So Williams judged post-accident Massa still to be a good enough driver for them.

 

In the long term I can see at least teams like Williams (in place of Kubica), Sauber (in place of Raikkonen), Haas (in place of Grosjean) being interesting in Bottas.



#5526 sopa

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 15:41

 

In any case, I suspect they have opted for Ocon for next year. That will be a point of possible interest, just as Leclerc will be this year. 

 

I'm not sure, why do people take for granted that Mercedes has signed or will sign Ocon for 2020. I mean he couldn't outperform Perez. What is so "must have" about him that Merc has to take him for 2020 and is convinced in the move already now?

 

I view it as out of 3 drivers competing for Merc' #2 seat (Bottas, Ocon, Russell) Ocon is actually the only one, who can't prove a thing during 2019. He is sitting on the sidelines, waiting for a miracle.

 

Meanwhile Bottas and Russell have the opportunity to prove a point. Bottas is getting a bit of a bad press lately, because you are as good as your last race. But if Bottas gets a good start into the season again, then again all the impressions will change. IMHO the wildcard to push Bottas away from Merc is Russell, not Ocon. As mentioned, Ocon can't prove anything any more, but Russell can. If Russell amazes the F1 world like Leclerc did, then he could drive for Mercedes next year.

 

Even if we leave Bottas aside, Ocon v Russell matter is far from clear-cut at the moment. Mercedes would be stupid to have signed up Ocon for 2020 without waiting and seeing, what Russell can do. It just doesn't make sense. It would be wiser to wait and see, what Russell can actually do, and then decide.


Edited by sopa, 10 January 2019 - 15:41.


#5527 SirT

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 16:30

Russell is contracted to Williams for 2 years (I think part of the reason they picked him over Ocon, who wanted to be available for the 2020 silly season), so if Russell has a good 1st year with signs of being good enough for the very top and Bottas has a solid if not spectacular season then I could see another 1 year extension for Valtteri.



#5528 kosmos

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:38

Bottas is no longer sponsored by Wihuri. This is what Wihuri boss had to say about him:

 

"Everything you think is disappointed. Partly it was not his own fault,some of it was due to stables and technical worries, but I think he was quite weak in the end of the year" Aarnio-Wihuri told Ilta-Sanomat.

 

"After all, it's a difficult place to be a Hamiltonian teammate, but Valtteri was left behind by many others and was only at the fifth overall. It was a pretty weak result."

 

"There's no longer any talk with Valtter. 20 years, I have supported him. After all, it's been pretty much done".

 

https://www.is.fi/fo...0005960313.html

 

 

Completely unnecessary, if you want to drop him that is fine but don't publicly humiliate him    :down:



#5529 7MGTEsup

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:50

Completely unnecessary, if you want to drop him that is fine but don't publicly humiliate him    :down:

 

I wouldn't call that humiliating, as he's not saying anything someone who watched the races couldn't see.



#5530 BRG

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 22:08

Bottas takes 5th overall on the Arctic Rally, and takes a stage win as well.  A pretty good rally debut.  Nice to know he has something to fall back on if........or when....



#5531 noikeee

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 23:06

Bottas takes 5th overall on the Arctic Rally, and takes a stage win as well.  A pretty good rally debut.  Nice to know he has something to fall back on if........or when....

 

The Autosport article makes it sound like he was the only on a WRC car whereas the others were on R5s. If that's the case... it's not that impressive then, particularly for a F1 driver! Although I guess going straight for the big car on your debut and not smashing it is a good start, even if the snow banks tend to be a bit more forgiving than other surfaces.



#5532 beachdrifter

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 16:20

I view it as out of 3 drivers competing for Merc' #2 seat (Bottas, Ocon, Russell) Ocon is actually the only one, who can't prove a thing during 2019. He is sitting on the sidelines, waiting for a miracle.

 

 

Ocon has been on a very impressive development trajectory in 2018 (most impressive in-season development I've seen from any driver that year), and now he's actually on the Merc team, will drive the Merc in testing and in the simulator, and will help the team develop the car. That's a lot of data for the team to collect. It's time for Merc to invest in a younger driver (like most of the the other teams, including their main rivals, already do), and I think Ocon has a good chance to get the 2020 drive. He won't compete in races, but I don't think Merc has any questions about his driving ability at this point anyway. 


Edited by beachdrifter, 27 January 2019 - 16:24.


#5533 Sterzo

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 18:14

Ocon has been on a very impressive development trajectory in 2018 (most impressive in-season development I've seen from any driver that year), 

Monsieur Leclerc, peut-etre?



#5534 Paco

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 13:26

Unnecessary comment by a sponsor, absolutely.  Speaking the truth of a huge career build-up for 20years falling flat on your face in a belief in a driver has gotta sting as well.

 

That said, he did speak the truth and after pouring millions into the guy, I can see where the fustration developed from.  F1 can be brutally honest.

 

As for above drivers, Kimi did fine and last year was way better then Bottas.  Massa was a handy driver and at Williams proved that over and over.

 

 Bottas reminds of HHF and JV... was supposed to be very good and got slapped hard by his teammate.  Typically when you get beat that hard, you never recover and its a waste by the team trying to prop them up again... Fear its going to be another last year by MGP again in the 2nd seat.  He needs to be closer to protect more 2nd and 3rd spots.



#5535 Fatgadget

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 21:49

Unnecessary comment by a sponsor, absolutely.  Speaking the truth of a huge career build-up for 20years falling flat on your face in a belief in a driver has gotta sting as well.

 

That said, he did speak the truth and after pouring millions into the guy, I can see where the fustration developed from.  F1 can be brutally honest.

 

As for above drivers, Kimi did fine and last year was way better then Bottas.  Massa was a handy driver and at Williams proved that over and over.

 

 Bottas reminds of HHF and JV... was supposed to be very good and got slapped hard by his teammate.  Typically when you get beat that hard, you never recover and its a waste by the team trying to prop them up again... Fear its going to be another last year by MGP again in the 2nd seat.  He needs to be closer to protect more 2nd and 3rd spots.

At the end of the day Bottas was instrumental Mercedes winning the WCC. Job done for a wing man! :wave:



#5536 Paco

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 06:33

At the end of the day Bottas was instrumental Mercedes winning the WCC. Job done for a wing man! :wave:

 

Pretty sure even Stroll could have filled that roll of supporting the WCC.. :-)



#5537 Anuity

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 07:54

 

 

 Bottas reminds of HHF and JV... was supposed to be very good and got slapped hard by his teammate.  

 

 

I don't see any comparison with Villeneuve. He was very fast, Bottas is not. It was his 5th season in the hopeless BAR when he was beaten by JB, nobody  cared by that point, meh.

 

Bottas is a very likeable guy, but really it would be nice to see a stronger driver in that car. He looks like Mark Webber in his last couple of years. In fact changing scenary and going to a team like Renault could probably help him as well.



#5538 Paco

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 15:56

...

I don't see any comparison with Villeneuve. He was very fast, Bottas is not. It was his 5th season in the hopeless BAR when he was beaten by JB, nobody  cared by that point, meh.

 

Bottas is a very likeable guy, but really it would be nice to see a stronger driver in that car. He looks like Mark Webber in his last couple of years. In fact changing scenary and going to a team like Renault could probably help him as well.

 

Then you dont recall HHF being a 2nd coming and did nothing in the drive and then fell out of F1 knowing full well he had his shot and ruined it.  Not unlike Bottas, except Bottas wasn't as hyped as HHF..  Has nothing to do with Villeneuve only that JV destroyed HHF like Lewis has done to Bottas last season.  Bottas is lucky to have been retained for 2019.. I think he only kept the seat because of the having to move over and giving Lewis the win.  Had it not been for that and some touchy feely sentiment.. Bottas would have been given the boot.  This is the issue with Team Principles managing drivers.  They make bad decisions.  F1 will lose out this year by having Bottas in the 2nd seat.. at least Ocon would made for a more interesting story.



#5539 noriaki

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 16:49

Fell out of F1?

 

I seem to recall HHF coming pretty close to winning the World Championship for Jordan instantly after he got out of the 2nd seat of Williams...



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#5540 FordFiesta

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 17:17

...

Then you dont recall HHF being a 2nd coming and did nothing in the drive and then fell out of F1 knowing full well he had his shot and ruined it. Not unlike Bottas, except Bottas wasn't as hyped as HHF.. Has nothing to do with Villeneuve only that JV destroyed HHF like Lewis has done to Bottas last season. Bottas is lucky to have been retained for 2019.. I think he only kept the seat because of the having to move over and giving Lewis the win. Had it not been for that and some touchy feely sentiment.. Bottas would have been given the boot. This is the issue with Team Principles managing drivers. They make bad decisions. F1 will lose out this year by having Bottas in the 2nd seat.. at least Ocon would made for a more interesting story.


Not more interesting than Bottas' story was, by the end of 2016.

#5541 7MGTEsup

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 17:01

Bottas is a fast 1 lap driver not a racing driver. He always falls away in the race not able to manage his pace and tyres. Maybe he should do rally X as the races are short?



#5542 Paco

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 01:14

...

 

Then you dont recall HHF being a 2nd coming and did nothing in the drive and then fell out of F1 knowing full well he had his shot and ruined it.  Not unlike Bottas, except Bottas wasn't as hyped as HHF..  Has nothing to do with Villeneuve only that JV destroyed HHF like Lewis has done to Bottas last season.  Bottas is lucky to have been retained for 2019.. I think he only kept the seat because of the having to move over and giving Lewis the win.  Had it not been for that and some touchy feely sentiment.. Bottas would have been given the boot.  This is the issue with Team Principles managing drivers.  They make bad decisions.  F1 will lose out this year by having Bottas in the 2nd seat.. at least Ocon would made for a more interesting story.

 

Not to hijack this thread but I recall HHF doing well against Hill but Hill also struggling with a lot of DNFs if I recall..  HHF did have the better... just a bit of him but frankly,  HHF still got demolished and he was able to come back and win and qualify well (like Bottas can and probably will) but he IMO never hit the top tier consistently.. moments of 1 lap speed, but never consistent enough over a race distance over and over and over...   So yeah.. Bottas remindes of HHF..  Quick enough over a qualifying to keep team mate honest but come Sunday over a race with the odd exception not consistent for a championship compaign.



#5543 RECKLESS

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 14:56

Valtteri has a new sponsor deal with Abloy, global leader in door opening solutions and access control. Good news!

https://www.abloy.co...loy-for-trust-/

#5544 Danyy

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 17:36

Valtteri has a new sponsor deal with Abloy, global leader in door opening solutions
https://www.abloy.co...loy-for-trust-/

Does one of those doors have a 2020 Mercedes contract written on it’s banner? :p

#5545 BuddyHolly

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 17:38

 global leader in door opening solutions and access control.
 

 

Feel free to call me stupid but.. what the hell does that even mean?  ^^ :confused:



#5546 Danyy

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 17:45

Feel free to call me stupid but.. what the hell does that even mean?  ^^ :confused:


It means they’ve figured out the impossible - A door handle