281 replies to this topic

[sopa]

Looked through the threads and thought something is missing.

 

Of course!

 

How can you miss that one? Two fast drivers fighting it out this year. But who will come out on top?

 

Hulkenberg vs Sainz.

Edited by sopa, 24 March 2018 - 11:21.

[speedx]

Hulkenberg found his magic on that last lap. He was the whole weekend behind Sainz, till Q3...

[Anja]

Hulkenberg found his magic on that last lap. He was the whole weekend behind Sainz, till Q3...

 

That's more down to Sainz losing half a second from Q2 to Q3 rather than Hulk doing something special. Nico's Q3 lap was comparable to his Q2 time. 

[Laster]

Yeah Sainz lost time in the final session. Hulk has struggled for single lap pace this weekend. They’re starting fairly close together however, only Ricciardo will divide them, so it should still be quite close this weekend.

[geralt]

Definitely one of the most interesting teammate battles.

[MortenF1]

I think these two are really good, and totally expect exciting battles between them all year. I believe Sainz is just that smidgen better though, but we’ll see.

Edited by MortenF1, 24 March 2018 - 11:53.

[TFLB]

Think it will be Sainz by a clear and consistent but small margin. But Renault currently don't seem to be that much better than at the end of last year, which is disappointing.

[MustangSally]

Think it will be Sainz by a clear and consistent but small margin. But Renault currently don't seem to be that much better than at the end of last year, which is disappointing.

 

The focus is reliability, as I understand it. About the 'at the end of last year' - they had plenty of speed by Silverstone 2017 according to Matt Chester, but nothing to show for it. Anyway, not much between these guys, very good scrap in prospect.  

[coppilcus]

Very close in qualifying... Does Hulkenberg has lost his hunger, he has got it at some point in his career?

In race pace they’re miles apart...

[sopa]

Hulkenberg has finished 7th in Australia on multiple occasions already, so for him a bit of a tradition to end up there..

 

Looking at the comments here it looks like Sainz is considered the favourite for some reason. Also interesting that I think Christian Horner has mentioned that Sainz is a back-up to join RBR were Ricciardo to leave. That puts pressure on Sainz in a way - frankly he has to beat Hulkenberg to justify getting a top team seat above him. Or it wouldn't look good on him getting a seat in RBR just because he is connected to them.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think Hulkenberg will take the shine of Sainz this season, I expect Hulkenberg to be the better over the season, and to be so more clearly than seems expected here, in the media and possibly by Red Bull.

 

[aray]

I think Sainz has a edge in raw pace, but in race both of them are evenly matched.

[Laster]

Very close in qualifying... Does Hulkenberg has lost his hunger, he has got it at some point in his career? In race pace they’re miles apart...

He had setup problems. They found race pace in his car just fine, on the harder tyre he was fastest in the midfield in practice, but they couldn’t find the same balance over a single lap. He said it kept switching between understeer and oversteer.

Sainz was unfortunate this weekend to have his drinks problem too, but they both brought it home in the points, and were fairly evenly matched at various points over the weekend. This team battle looks likely to be very close rather than the easy win for either driver like some seem to expect.

[TFLB]

Good job by both today, Sainz you've got to feel was hindered by being waterboarded by his own car but both did well to bring home points    Should have beaten Verstappen (who was rubbish today) with Hulk but lost out in the pits I think?

[prty]

Too bad for Sainz with the excess water he drank being sickening with the g forces. But looking at the bright side, if this was 2006 he would have been disqualified for having a mass damper in his stomach, whereas in 2018 he got a point.

[speedx]

As a fan of Hulk, I hope he will beat Sainz this season. I think Hulk is faster in quali and they are quite evenly matched in a race pace.

It would be fun if Hulk beats Sainz and then Red Bull wants Nico for 2019 instead of Carlos... Would he cancel an offer from Red Bull as he did some years ago?

[MortenF1]

Too bad for Sainz with the excess water he drank being sickening with the g forces. But looking at the bright side, if this was 2006 he would have been disqualified for having a mass damper in his stomach, whereas in 2018 he got a point.

Hehe, but he probably shifted the cog when he drank the water, upwards.

Quite why he had to open his mouth and take in all that water when it was being pumped out at random, I don't know. I also thought they didn't have much more than between 1/2 liter and 1 litre of fluid.

[charly0418]

I think Hulk is gonna win this one. Good to see Hulk have another good challenge after the Perez years. Him vs Palmer was so boring

[TFLB]

Hehe, but he probably shifted the cog when he drank the water, upwards.

Quite why he had to open his mouth and take in all that water when it was being pumped out at random, I don't know. I also thought they didn't have much more than between 1/2 liter and 1 litre of fluid.

I think they have their water pipes in their mouths anyway, so there's not much he could do about it - he said he managed to get it out later.

[PistolPete]

So Sainz got beaten by more than 0.5 second in all three sessions.. Embarrassing, almost Palmer'isk. 

 

edit: only 0.4s behind in Q3. 

Edited by PistolPete, 07 April 2018 - 16:25.

[sopa]

Sky Sports commentary mentioned that Gasly could start rivalling Sainz in terms of getting the second Red Bull seat were Ricciardo to leave... So things could get interesting.

 

However, I'm kind of surprised this thread is so silent. Even Stroll-Sirotkin, Magnussen-Grosjean, et al, have far more posts in their team-mate threads.

[DS27]

I generally stopped posting in driver vs driver threads as people don't seem to be able to put their bias to one side. The Hulk / Perez thread was a typical example.

 

I have been a fan of Hulk for years, and glad to see him doing so well. I'm not surprised at him out-performing Sainz so far, but unfortunately I don't think Renault will become a race winning car, and that Hulk will never get the results he was capable of had he got that 2nd Ferrari seat.

[speedx]

Hulk has a contract only for this year with an option for next year. Theoretically he could get a Ferrari/Mercedes Drive. If he beats Sainz...

Edited by speedx, 07 April 2018 - 18:46.

[coppilcus]

A one sided battle for the time being...

[beachdrifter]

Hulk has a contract only for this year with an option for next year. Theoretically he could get a Ferrari/Mercedes Drive. If he beats Sainz...

 

Would be awesome to see the Hulk in a top drive. It's just not in the cards I'm afraid.

[Seanspeed]

Sky Sports commentary mentioned that Gasly could start rivalling Sainz in terms of getting the second Red Bull seat were Ricciardo to leave... So things could get interesting.

 

However, I'm kind of surprised this thread is so silent. Even Stroll-Sirotkin, Magnussen-Grosjean, et al, have far more posts in their team-mate threads.

It is surprising since this is one of the more interesting battles on the grid, between two quite good drivers.  

[Button4life]

Sky Sports commentary mentioned that Gasly could start rivalling Sainz in terms of getting the second Red Bull seat were Ricciardo to leave... So things could get interesting.

However, I'm kind of surprised this thread is so silent. Even Stroll-Sirotkin, Magnussen-Grosjean, et al, have far more posts in their team-mate threads.

Probably because they're both colorless drivers that do their job well. They rarely over or underperform. They rarely crash or make big mistakes. They aren't spectacular. There's no controversy around them. They just do what's expected which make them boring professional drivers.

[MortenF1]

That 29.1 from Hülkenberg surely must’ve been a maxed-out lap! Surprising, and a shame that he couldn’t replicate it in Q3 when it mattered. Sainz haven’t been able to really be on the pace all weekend.

Edited by MortenF1, 08 April 2018 - 07:45.

[SonJR]

Sky Sports commentary mentioned that Gasly could start rivalling Sainz in terms of getting the second Red Bull seat were Ricciardo to leave... So things could get interesting.

 

 

I think the Verstappen - Sainz friction from 2015/2016 might factor into their decision as well. All credit to Gasly though, he's showing some great pace. He's always had the pace though, Marko's said he wants him to be consistent and (more) error-free, so that's the real thing to prove for Pierre.
 

[Laster]

I would like to see what Sainz has to say about his race before judging, but the end result has been a very poor weekend. Four tenths off Hulk in qualifying, and half a minute behind on track. I expect things will be much closer in China. Another solid weekend from Hulk though delivering another good points haul.

[anyeis]

Sainz looking like Palmer.. cant be good with Gasly performing

[Dalton007]

I would like to see what Sainz has to say about his race before judging, but the end result has been a very poor weekend. Four tenths off Hulk in qualifying, and half a minute behind on track. I expect things will be much closer in China. Another solid weekend from Hulk though delivering another good points haul.

 

Hulk's stock has gone up. Been impressed with his driving this year. I do think Sainz is better than he is able to show at the moment, but I think Hulk will be a very difficult opponent to beat over a season.

[Victor_RO]

Hulk's stock has gone up. Been impressed with his driving this year. I do think Sainz is better than he is able to show at the moment, but I think Hulk will be a very difficult opponent to beat over a season.

 

Sadly, from whatever circumstances played into it, I think it's doing so too late for teams above Renault to really care about it.

[Laster]

Sadly, from whatever circumstances played into it, I think it's doing so too late for teams above Renault to really care about it.

I agree with that, Hulk will not attract interest from the likes of Ferrari or Merc, which is why he has positioned himself at Renault. If he is going to get anywhere in F1, it will have to be through helping to build up this team. I'd really love to see him do it too, but first things first, he's gotta keep Sainz behind him. 14 - 1 in points is a good start.

[GTA]

This isn't the Carlos Sainz we have seen at STR. Extremely strange lack of pace give he was good in practice. Hulk's gonna be tough to beat but if he wants that 2nd RB seat Carlos has to beat Hulk. 

[krioru]

if Sainz will continue to perform like this... they should replace him midseason asap. This is unacceptable.

[PistolPete]

This isn't the Carlos Sainz we have seen at STR. Extremely strange lack of pace give he was good in practice. Hulk's gonna be tough to beat but if he wants that 2nd RB seat Carlos has to beat Hulk. 

 

Torro Rosso and RB makes the cars on the grid that are most drivable. So of course it is more easy to look good quickly in such machinery. Now he is in a Renault that is not terrible, but clearly not superb either and I think this is a completely new situation for him. 

[taran]

Torro Rosso and RB makes the cars on the grid that are most drivable. So of course it is more easy to look good quickly in such machinery. Now he is in a Renault that is not terrible, but clearly not superb either and I think this is a completely new situation for him. 

 

How are they the most drivable? The Red Bull lacked downforce last year and Toro Rosso don't have the budget to develop superior downforce. And with Renault lacking outright power in the past few years, they often had to trim the cars for speed, meaning they were more tricky IIRC.

 

So how do you figure the cars were easy to drive?

[MrHypercar]

This isn't the Carlos Sainz we have seen at STR. Extremely strange lack of pace give he was good in practice. Hulk's gonna be tough to beat but if he wants that 2nd RB seat Carlos has to beat Hulk. 

I think we did see it, if we take the pre-Kvyat era as fairer comparison. Lost races on tire management. Equal on one lap pace then, compared to a youngster still getting into the groove of driving cars. Extending a bit, it took Max time to equal RIC for one lap pace. The race pace was immediately there.
Hulk is no tier HAM or VET, even his fans will not claim this, but he's taking care of Sainz. 

[RPM40]

Pretty underwhelmed by Sainz

I feel his whole reputation is based around performance against a very inexperienced Verstappen. He’s been overrated for a while

[NixxxoN]

Palmer like? Please, lol. Dont jump into conclusions so quickly... Sainz matched hulk at the end of last year. Lets wait and see

[sopa]

I feel his whole reputation is based around performance against a very inexperienced Verstappen. He’s been overrated for a while

 

Actually Sainz came to the fore once Verstappen left Toro Rosso. Then Sainz collected a lot of points for STR, while Kvyat got nothing.

 

Was the Toro Rosso better than we thought? Gasly now finished 4th, albeit with a different PU. This would make the returning Kvyat an absolute muppet though, but that's what he was.

 

Anyway, still early doors and I don't think we have seen the best of Sainz yet. Team-mate performances can easily shift around over a season especially in a close battle. Maybe in the second half of the season Sainz has an edge? Who knows. I remember Hulkenberg-Perez battle had quite a few performance swings during their tenure. For example in both 2014 and 2015 Hulk seemed better by mid-point of those seasons, but Perez in the second half.

 

Hulk sure seems on a roll right now. Shame he never gets anywhere near podiums on his best days. Always around 6ths, 7ths, 8ths, etc, been the same story for years.

Edited by sopa, 09 April 2018 - 11:04.

[RPM40]

Actually Sainz came to the fore once Verstappen left Toro Rosso. Then Sainz collected a lot of points for STR, while Kvyat got nothing.
 
Was the Toro Rosso better than we thought? Gasly now finished 4th, albeit with a different PU. This would make the returning Kvyat an absolute muppet though, but that's what he was.
 
Anyway, still early doors and I don't think we have seen the best of Sainz yet. Team-mate performances can easily shift around over a season especially in a close battle. Maybe in the second half of the season Sainz has an edge? Who knows. I remember Hulkenberg-Perez battle had quite a few performance swings during their tenure. For example in both 2014 and 2015 Hulk seemed better by mid-point of those seasons, but Perez in the second half.
 
Hulk sure seems on a roll right now. Shame he never gets anywhere near podiums on his best days. Always around 6ths, 7ths, 8ths, etc, been the same story for years.

Kvyat has to be one of the hardest drivers ever to rate. As by comparisons he has been both one of the best, and one of the worst. I have no idea how to rate him.

[NixxxoN]

Pretty underwhelmed by Sainz

I feel his whole reputation is based around performance against a very inexperienced Verstappen. He’s been overrated for a while

The same very inexperienced and very young verstappen jumped into Red Bull and somehow gave Ricciardo a run for his money from the very beggining. Ric is overrated aswell then?

Edited by NixxxoN, 09 April 2018 - 11:09.

[RPM40]

The same very inexperienced verstappen jumped into Red Bull and somehow gave Ricciardo a run for his money from the very beggining. Ric is overrated aswell then?

I’d say in general Ricciardo has been right on Max’s pace and maybe even more complete as a driver overall. So no, not really.

I dunno, i just doubt Sainz would be that competitive from what I’m seeing vs Nico.

[NixxxoN]

I’d say in general Ricciardo has been right on Max’s pace and maybe even more complete as a driver overall. So no, not really.

I dunno, i just doubt Sainz would be that competitive from what I’m seeing vs Nico.

I'm noticing short memories from many people here, he performed well in late 2017 with Renault against a much more experienced Hulk in that car.

 

The trend is, from one race to another you can go from great driver to bad driver, in the case of sainz and many others. Now apparently Gasly is such a great driver even though he did nothing before, and Hartley is crap.

Edited by NixxxoN, 09 April 2018 - 11:13.

[Melchiot]

Sainz has yet to beat a trouble free Hulk in a race or qualifying since he joined Renault.

Only time he managed that was in USA last year when Hulk had engine issues.

[motohead]

Not impressed by Sainz at all. Almost a Palmeresk weekend for him compared to HULK

 

But then again, actually nothing special from HULK. Special would have been to beat MAG and GAS, but he was no where close even though the pace seemed to be there. So all in all, average from Hulk and bad from Sainz

Edited by motohead, 09 April 2018 - 11:18.

[messy]

Early days and all, but Hulkenberg has taken quite a decisive lead in this one so far. Not usually by much, but enough and consistently. He's a very strong driver, Nico. Very fast and very forceful. I just don't think he's a particularly great guy to work with, which has been alluded to for a long time by a wide range of people in the paddock - most recently Nico Rosberg in F1 Racing.

[Maxioos]

I’d say in general Ricciardo has been right on Max’s pace and maybe even more complete as a driver overall. So no, not really.

I dunno, i just doubt Sainz would be that competitive from what I’m seeing vs Nico.

 

At the pace of Max? No VT or Q session they had both completed this year, Ric was the fastest. Constantly as always, you do not hear me about it, but the pace is not yet shown (in this year small sample so far, but last year lightly considered also