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#101 Kenzclass

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:43

Wasn't aware of those differences, Ray, nor the drama of the integral bellhousing.

My only experience was with the R-R B40-engined version on "weekend warrior" forays.

Was quite a nice box to use, and the whole Champ experience was way better (and way faster) than driving the Series IIA Landies that were the alternative.

Col Galley in Brisbane currently has a road-registered ex-military Champ - must see if I can wangle a driving re-acquaintance with the breed. 



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#102 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 13:53

There used to be a bunch of them parked on the hill in Rouen Road at Toowong...

I don't think I've seen them there in the last couple of years.

It does seem like a good box for a '50s Special, but the ratios are extremely wide, as I noted before.



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Edited by Ray Bell, 11 April 2018 - 13:55.


#103 Kenzclass

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 14:15

Gee, Ray - I’d forgotten about the Rouen Rd cars until you mentioned them.
Used to see them there a lot, as I’m at Ashgrove.
Wonder what happened to them?
And that quite visible Atlantic that sat for years under the front of a house opposite the old Yeronga Dog Refuge?

#104 cooper997

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:55

The Sabakat content is brief, but interesting feature by Tony Caldersmith on his motoring life published in the Alvis Car Club magazine.

 

http://alviscarclub....oric Racing.pdf

 

Stephen



#105 cooper997

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:01

Not sure how old this Brooklands Classic Cars listing is? But it shows the Howard/Caldersmith Sabakat with some differences to how it is now.

http://classiccarsau...u/cars/view/435

 

Stephen



#106 cooper997

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:14

An archived version of David Shaw's Gold Star site has Sabakat listed amongst the 1958 Championship

 

https://archive.is/9Q0v

 

Stephen



#107 cooper997

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 06:03

Earlier in this thread I posted a page with many Australian racing drivers, amongst them Ern Tadgell. I stumbled on this one today.

Tadgell_portrait_TNF.jpg

Published in a 1957 AMS, so probably from Ed Steet.

 

Stephen



#108 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:19

Is this the picture of Stan Jones in the Sabakat at Phillip Island which was previously linked?

0518fr_RLand_FBjonesinsabakat.jpg

What magazine was it in?

#109 cooper997

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:21

That photo recently made an appearance on Bob W's FB site. But it comes from the 'Spotlight' page within the November 1959 AMS where there's also a bit of text on the fine gesture of Tadgell and Glass offering their respective cars to Jones for the Phillip Island Western Port Cup Gold Star race. Stan decided on the Sabakat rather than 250F.

 

'Spotlight' must have been one of the last things they added to the magazine before publication. The actual event race report is in the December 1959 issue.

 

Stephen



#110 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:45

Thanks, Stephen...

Yes, it's from Facebook that the pic was picked up and mailed to me.

And you're right, that's how it worked, both with Spotlight and with Bits & Pieces in RCN. The magazine is printed in sections, usually two but possibly three, so there's extra time - even if it's only a couple of days - to get up to date news in the second section. So this was typically wrapped around the outside of the first section.

At the back of the magazine this gave more time to get classified ads in, too, while if there was an important meeting on (like the AGP) and a report could be written in time and included at the last minute it would also be in this outside section.

Some of that second section would be put together early in the planning, but room would be left for the later inclusions.

I'm guessing the pic was taken at the exit from Repco Corner as Stan headed for Siberia.

#111 TerryS

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 00:19

Attached a short bit on the Sabakat and advice it will be at Leyburn Sprints in August.

https://vintageracec...eyburn-sprints/

#112 bradbury west

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 07:55

There were some photos attributed to Brier Thomas posted on FB recently showing the car on fire at Lowood in 1960 , plus a shot of the engine/exhaust area after it had caught fire earlier in practice. I always regard the Sabakat with interest, but these shots make you wonder just what could have been left from which to re create the car.
I will e mail them to Ray if he agrees so he can post them here as a matter of historic interest and accuracy.
Roger Lund.

#113 Terry Walker

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:41

Those champs had a strange transmission. I can still recall one of my old mates in the late 60s driving his down an airstrip in reverse, going through the gears from first to top -- backwards. I never worked out how it was done.



#114 M bennett

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:43

I have always thought the current car ought to be referred to as Sabakat II, as it contains nothing of the car that burned out at Lowood in 1960.

Period letters from Graham Howard to the HLR in the UK in 1980 note "I didn't have any Sabakat bits when I started" and "the original of mine was known to be have been 99% destroyed" 

The story of the new car built by Graham Howard and Tony Caldersmith has been told many times in forum and in print. The filler cap/neck on the water header tank on Sabakat II is a genuine  Team Lotus item as Graham Howard sweated it off the header tank of Lotus 12 # 353, in is possession, and used it in his build. Much, much, later Graham returned the original header tank of #353 to me minus the filler cap/neck. 

 Graham did eventually drive #353 at Eastern Creek September 1998.   Graham had tried to buy #353 back in 1970 as it sat unused and dismantled. When his attempts to buy #353 failed he then decided to build Sabakat II. A visit to Peter Warr in 1971 produced the Lotus drawings he needed to do so. 

 

         Mike Bennett    HLR  (UK)  Lotus 12 Registrar



#115 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 12:23

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Those champs had a strange transmission. I can still recall one of my old mates in the late 60s driving his down an airstrip in reverse, going through the gears from first to top -- backwards. I never worked out how it was done.


It was really very simple, Terry...

It was a straight 5-speed gearbox with a direct top gear and a very low first, and no reverse. The drive went from the gearbox to the transfer box, which split the drive to both front and rear differentials.

The reverse gear was in the transfer case.

Roger, did I ever say no to you?

#116 351

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 22:27

Hi Guys,

 

What most are forgetting, when the Sabakat was destroyed in 1960. The original drive train had been removed IE: radiator, motor ( even if broken ) gearbox, drive shaft, Drop box & diff. Where are they now ?????????

 

Regards Mike



#117 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 00:27

The Brier Thomas photos salvaged from Facebook by Roger:

0718fr_RLsabakat1saturdayfire.jpg

Evidence that there was an earlier fire, presumably on practice day.

0718fr_RLsabakat2firiesatwork.jpg

Under-equipped fire marshalls attempt to contain the blaze.

0718fr_RLsabakat3burningwell.jpg

Ultimately they simply had to let it burn completely out.

0718fr_RLsabakat4crowdlookingatmess.jpg

There was plenty of time for a good crowd to gather...

0718fr_RLsabakat5smoulderingremnants.jpg

...and it's obvious why the start of the Grand Prix was delayed for so long.

Thanks, Roger...




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 29 July 2018 - 15:29.


#118 M bennett

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 08:31

Graham Howard, if I may say so, was fairly careful with his money. He searched high and low for any original Sabakat bits and found nothing. Bear in mind he was searching for bits in 1971, a decade later than the fire. His articles on the project details where he went, and how he gathered sundry parts from all and sundry for Sabakat II. Any original Sabakat bits probably sat in the corner of Ernies's crop dusting hanger. Once the car was lost, they were of no further use. I might suggest - enter Simsmetal? These things had no value back then.

    Of course if they were to reappear we might see Sabakat III ?  

 

          Mike B


Edited by M bennett, 20 July 2018 - 08:58.


#119 bradbury west

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 17:14

On the FaceBook Old Australian Photographs page there is a set of photographs taken in the paddock at Bathurst in October 1958. Albeit a little faded, there is a good shot of Mr Tadgell's Lotus 12 entered by Tadgell Aviation. The other shots are also interesting. All good stuff for historians
Perhaps someone with the requisite lack of ineptitude at posting could post it here, photographer duly credited.
Roger Lund

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#120 cooper997

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 00:44

Roger, I take it this is the photo of Sabakat posted by Paul Kelly you mention.

 

P-Kelly-Sabakat.jpg

 

Interesting to see Len Lukey's transport. No doubt chock full delivering mufflers during the week and hastily packed with race equipment come race weekends. Brilliant!

 

There's a whole series of Paul's 1958 Australian GP meeting photos here

https://www.facebook...3&theater&ifg=1

 

They also include

141 Tom Corcoran Dorcas MG special

12 Lex Davison Ferrari engine

59 Bill Patterson Cooper Climax

4 Stan Jones Maserati

1 Ern Seeliger Maybach

(5) Un-numbered Derek Jolly Decca Mk2

39 Ted Gray Tornado and 12 Phillips Cooer Jaguar

12 Ron Phillips Cooper Jaguar at BP

22 Tom Clark (NZ) Ferrari

 

 

Stephen

 

PS - Roger, you can post them easily straight off Facebook. Simply right click your mouse on the image wanted. The menu pops up and scroll the cursor to 'copy image' then left click the mouse. Open the TNF thread you want to place it in and then on your keyboard hold down 'Ctrl' with one finger while you tap 'V' with another and the image should then appear. No postimage or similar required.


Edited by cooper997, 24 August 2019 - 08:02.


#121 cooper997

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 09:23

David Blanch at autopics has recently added some wonderful Jim Bertram photos to the website. Including these 2 of Sabakat in 1959 before it was messed with.

 

59532__44853.1537242754.jpg?c=2

http://autopics.com....ection/#gallery

 

59531__63676.1537242754.jpg?c=2

http://autopics.com....ection/#gallery

 

These and more can be purchased from the website without the watermarks.

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 27 September 2018 - 09:23.


#122 bradbury west

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 15:03

Along with another 4 Sabakat shots at Phillip Island in 1958. Rare indeed.
Thanks for the heads up
Roger Lund

#123 351

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 21:48

Hi Stephen,

 

Thank's, some great early photo's of the Sabakat.

 

Regards Mike Gosbell



#124 Daren W

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 06:26

where does the name come from ?



#125 cooper997

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 06:02

We probably should have given Daren W a response before now. Others may know in better detail, but the Sabakat name was attached to an original Lotus 12 in an attempt to hide its true identity for the tax dodge that was being undertaken. Exactly the same reason applies to Aussie Miller in calling his Cooper the 'Miller special'.

 

Mr Bisset has been digging again, this one from Gnoo Blas Good chance it's the January 1958 meeting.

Sabakat-Gnoo-Blas-TNF.jpg

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 11 November 2018 - 10:38.


#126 bradbury west

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 14:05

I forgot to mention earlier that this month's issue of Octane has an interesting 3 page article on Sabakat, including a decent resolution and colour shot of the car prior to its last fiery outing.
Roger Lund

Edit spl.

Edited by bradbury west, 29 July 2019 - 14:05.


#127 MarkBisset

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 07:35

I have ‘packaged up’ a whole lotta contributions from many of you into an article on the two ‘Australian’ Lotus 12’s ‘351’ aka Sabakat and ‘353’. Hopefully I’ve not verballed too many of you. Thank you for your insights- the story should not be lost;

https://primotipo.co...-add-lightness/

Mark

#128 cooper997

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 07:54

Well at least we used 2 different threads...

 

Stephen



#129 MarkBisset

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 09:19

Too funny Stephen ! Great minds etc
M

#130 Gary C

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 17:49

Mark Bissett, a couple of things in your article, it's spelt SheppErton Film Studios, I know, because I live there! Also....I'm pretty sure the South Circular Road is nowhere near the film studios, or am I reading it wrong?

#131 Gary C

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 17:50

But....other than that, it's a great article with some lovely pictures.

#132 M bennett

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:26

I can add more information on John Fisher who acquired #353 from Team Lotus.  As part of my researches on #353 I have met, over the years, every owner of the car or their direct descendant. I met John Fisher on 26th April 1994, in fact he has his own chapter in my book. John was a true English gent, a significant Portsmouth business man. During his time in the Navy he raced motorcycles, winning The Arbuthnot Trophy. He was a competitor at the IOM TT entering no fewer than 15 times. His first race was back in 1948 on an Ariel. In 1952 he raced in three classes, Junior TT, Senior TT, and Lightweight 250 TT

His car racing spanned the years 1955 to 1967 using Keifts, Lotus and Coopers. John joined the BRDC as a Life member in 1957. When I met John he was immaculately attired in his BRDC blazer. He was one of the first, if not the first, importer of Hondas into the UK, he became a good friend of Soichiro Honda and stayed with him in Japan during his trips to the east. In 1982 he was appointed Mayor Portsmouth, the year that The Mary Rose was raised from the harbour.  He was also Mayor during the Falklands conflict, He was proud of welcoming back each ship from the Falkland war.

He also ran a fleet of six aircraft running commuter flights from Portsmouth to the Channel Islands. At one time his road car was a D type Jaguar bought for 2000 pounds through the motor trade.

He ran a full time racing garage with two mechanics Wally Varley and Dennis Tobin. He said he was often contacted by Colin Chapman with an "offer to good to refuse". John was already racing a Lotus 12 #360 in 1958. Les Leston inverted the car at Caen in 1958 (a Coventry Climax engine build fault) . A bent but repairable car.  John now had races entered but no car to run. He rang Colin Chapman who offered #353 for immediate delivery as Graham Hill had moved to the Lotus 16 at Team Lotus. Dennis Tobin was sent up to London with trailer to bring it back to Portsmouth. 

John was a real gent of the old school, I collected photos of his Bedford bus transporter, his two Lotus Elevens ORV770 and YTN 444 plus his Lotus 16 (the only Lotus 16 bought new by a private customer) 

 

Regarding Frank Gardner racing #353 in the UK. I found only one image from Ferret of Frank racing the car, it was at a minor MMEC race meeting at Silverstone . 

 

When I look at the all people who helped me with the book content, and who I met, sadly time has taken its toll on their ranks.  Willie Griffiths, Merv Therriault, Peter Ross, Cliff Allison, John Fisher, Dennis Tobin, Bruce Halford, Frank Gardner, John Blanden, Joe Hills, David Holyoake, Bill Boddy, and Graham Howard have all left us. . The value they added by their first hand knowledge is immeasurable 

 

 Mike Bennett  Adelaide

 

    



#133 GMACKIE

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 21:39

Mike, I'm sure David Holyoake would be surprised to hear of his demise. David and Lynne will be attending the VSCCA '75th Anniversary' rally in a couple of weeks time.

 

I am looking forward to catching up with David and Lynne (and many others) at the '75th'. It will be held in Wagga Wagga, starting from Camden on the 12th September.

 

Greg Mackie



#134 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 01:14

I'm curious about the 'Dennis Tobin' mentioned...

I'm pretty sure I recall such a name racing a Sunbeam Alpine (or similar) on NSW circuits in the sixties and/or seventies. But I also think it was 'Denis' with only the one 'n'. Is this the same person?

#135 M bennett

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:02

Greg  Yes you are right, my mistake, apologies, as I am aware David has now moved closer into Sydney and is very much still with us.

    Please pass on my regards - his car is being well looked after. 

 

        Ray this  Dennis Tobin. was very much UK bound, was a Team Lotus man at Hornsey for a while, then John Fisher asked him to come back to Portsmouth (Dennis's home) to help with his growing stable of racing cars. It was Dennis who was sent up to Hornsey with a trailer to collect #353 in a hurry after #360 was inverted. 

          I met Dennis in Portsmouth at his home twice in 2005 and again in 2012. 

 

           All these old Team Lotus hands could tell some stories!

 

           Mike Bennett    Adelaide 



#136 cooper997

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 09:23

Greg's mention of David Holyoake might help with confirmation of the following.

 

As far as I can work out the VSCCA ran a large display of their members vintage/historic cars at the 20th to 28th August 1976 Sydney Motor Show. Although it may well have only been a one-day display in the arena on 21 August. There was a special Souvenir Catalogue produced with proceeds to a Channel 7 telethon and David's Lotus 12 has a page devoted to it

 

Several Coopers and Notas, inc John Medley's, John Dawson-Damer Alta, Bruce Polain Wylie-Javelin, Fred Vogel Healey Silverstone, etc also took part it appears.

 

Stephen