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Pierre Gasly vs Brendon Hartley 2018


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#1 noikeee

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 11:57

This is such an exciting subject that 2 days after the first race nobody has opened a thread yet!
 
I was just thinking, Gasly's kinda screwed after the engine failure on the very first race eh? Assuming they're aiming at zero engine penalties. Gasly's last 2 engines would have to do 10 races each, whilst Hartley's will have to do 7... How detuned will his engines have to be? Is it even possible?
 
On normal conditions I'd have named Gasly the favourite here, I think he's legitimately very quick whereas Hartley's a bigger unknown with his odd career path - he's unquestionably a very competent professional driver but dunno if a single-seater ace anymore. But how much of a handicap will Gasly have to carry with him due to this engine failure?

Edited by noikeee, 27 March 2018 - 11:57.


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#2 RacingGreen

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:48

Looking at the bigger picture, that Red Bull may be using Honda engines in 2019, then Gasly shouldn't be too handicapped. At some point they will take an engine penalty and move on. In fact Toro Rosso Honda may elect to take a few penalties over the course of the season to develop updates on the Honda PU's before their big brothers at Red Bull have to use them.

 

As for the drivers at the weekend I thought both messed up their qualifying lap but Hartley recovered better and almost got to Q2. He also did a little better in the race pace wise fastest lap 1:28.176 compared to Gasly's 1:30.649, although it was difficult to tell as they were in traffic for much of the race. 

 

An underwhelming performance really but it's early days for the Honda marriage, and both inexperienced (in F1) drivers so they should be able to improve as the season goes on.



#3 sopa

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 11:53

Huh, the most passive team-mate thread.

 

I have thought of Hartley as a Bourdais vol2. Feels like a stop-gap solution. Not bad in F1 in any way, but I don't expect greatness either.

 

Gasly, I don't know. Probably not a great either, but to earn a long-term future in the sport, like i.e Sainz has done, he probably has to beat Hartley.

 

I doubt they will attempt to stretch one PU to 10 races though, lol. It would be far more sensible to take some penalties and have more powerful PU's available.



#4 Kalmake

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:53

 

I was just thinking, Gasly's kinda screwed after the engine failure on the very first race eh? Assuming they're aiming at zero engine penalties. Gasly's last 2 engines would have to do 10 races each, whilst Hartley's will have to do 7... How detuned will his engines have to be? Is it even possible?

They will just settle for taking penalties. Doesn't look like it will cost them many places on the grid anyway. They used about ten units per car last season.



#5 noikeee

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 13:22

Gasly, I don't know. Probably not a great either, but to earn a long-term future in the sport, like i.e Sainz has done, he probably has to beat Hartley.

 

Gasly does remind me of Sainz. Doesn't come with a fantastic reputation from his junior career, but at his best he was blindingly quick. And seems to be gaining momentum the last couple of years. I don't see him becoming a champion neither, but he could turn out a lot better than people gave him credit for.



#6 gillesfan76

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 13:24

I'm still amazed that Kvyat was replaced with Hartley. What a joke.



#7 noikeee

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 13:28

I'm still amazed that Kvyat was replaced with Hartley. What a joke.

Kvyat had more potential but was utterly finished. Little harm in giving Hartley a chance, he could've still come good. Doesn't look much like that worked yet, but who knows.



#8 Sterzo

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 13:44

Hartley was probably taken on mainly for his technical skills and development ability, and his experience working on engine development with a big manufacturer. He's also a good bloke, much liked by Mateschitz and Marko. He's always spoken well of Red Bull, despite being dropped, which must make him unique.

 

I'm glad he's got a year to enjoy F1, but wouldn't be ever so surprised if he makes that move to Indycar in 2019.



#9 f1paul

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 20:25

What a fantastic lap and qualifying in general from Gasly. Never mind Sainz to Red Bull if Ricciardo moves on, why not Gasly instead?  :clap: 

 

Super impressive from him.  :up: 



#10 sopa

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 20:28

First time Gasly showed some real spark in F1. Let's see, how he evolves in the future.



#11 f1paul

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 20:30

The earlier you spark, the better. 



#12 DS27

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 16:54

First time Gasly showed some real spark in F1. Let's see, how he evolves in the future.

 

 

Just seen the results; look like the spark just ignited!



#13 Laster

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 16:58

Fantastic weekend from Gasly today, easily the standout driver of the day. Heh just saw, he's now the joint highest Red Bull driver in the standings. XD It won't last come the next race, but still funny.

Edited by Laster, 08 April 2018 - 17:02.


#14 Victor_RO

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 17:10

Could have been points for Hartley without that silly move at turn 4. :(

 

That said...

 

*doffs hat*

 

Gasly monstered this weekend. Bloody amazing performance.  :up:  :up:  :up: And I think Helmut Marko's driver calculations for the main team's future just got a tiny bit more complicated...



#15 motohead

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 17:12

What a race by Gasly. And he didn't just get lucky. Great fighting off Magnussen in the beginning..!



#16 JoeDede

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 17:41

Congrats to Honda, TR and Gasly - What a race  :up:



#17 thegamer23

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:10

Well, it was a no contest today.

Gasly was superhuman.

Hartley would have probably finished 9 or 10 without the penalty.

A day to remember for Toro Rosso!! :up:

Edited by thegamer23, 08 April 2018 - 18:11.


#18 potmotr

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:29

Could have been points for Hartley without that silly move at turn 4. :(

 

 

Agreed.

 

Hartley's race pace was good today, but needs to cut the errors out of his game.

 

In Australia is was the first corner flat sport which defined his race.

 

This weekend it was (what looked like) another lock up in turn four which meant he hit Perez and got the penalty.

 

His pace was generally within a couple of tenths of Gasly for most of the race when they were on the same tyres, so I think he's definitely in touch.

 

Also, the fascinating thing about this contest is: how good is Gasly? We still have no real idea if he's very good or a potential great.

 

But yeah, Hartley needs eradicate the first lap errors which have hurt his race results so far this year.

 

He's definitely got a decent result in him, hopefully it'll be in China.



#19 dweller23

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:35

This is particularly bad news for Sainz, couple more races like that for Gasly and he's gonna secure RBR seat next year should Ricciardo leave RBR.



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#20 AlexPrime

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:40

Gasly needed several races to shine in Super Formula, now it is similar story, it seems. 



#21 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:41

Hartley should've been a stop-gap late 2017 and nothing more.

#22 PistolPete

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 18:47

This is particularly bad news for Sainz, couple more races like that for Gasly and he's gonna secure RBR seat next year should Ricciardo leave RBR.

 

I think the bad news for Sainz is how Hulk is demolishing him right now.. 



#23 Maxioos

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 19:04

Hartley should've been a stop-gap late 2017 and nothing more.

 

He's not doing that bad. Midfield is close pack. Far too early to make such a unneeded comment imo.



#24 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:04

What a BS penalty for Hartley. If it was our supreme overlord WDC leader doing that, he wouldn't even be investigated. What a joke that was....



#25 RacingGreen

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:55

Ironically Pierre Gasly's good form could help Hartley's F1 career too. If Ricciardo leave Red Bull then Gasly's promotion would make it likely that Hartley is kept by STR for the start of 2019 too. After all it's not as if Sainz is setting the Renault team alight.

 

If Gasly's form drops off then he will probably stay at STR making it more likely Hartley is dropped.

 

Neither scenario looks good for Hartley at the moment, he'll need to up his game to give Marko a reason to keep him.   



#26 cravenciak

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 15:52

According to Will Buxton, after just two races Helmut Marko called Brendon Hartley to tell him that he β€œneeds to step up his game”. No real conclusions before Spanish GP I guess, but there's a pattern with underpeforming drivers in Toro Rosso. The point is to remain strong mentally and don't lose it due to pressure (like Kvyat did). 



#27 maximilian

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 16:21

Hartley should've been a stop-gap late 2017 and nothing more.

 

Who would be in the Toro Rosso instead, with Sainz pushing to Renault and Kvyat finished?

 

Give Hartley at least a full season in F1 - last year's car was crap, and it's only been 2 races so far this season.  He's overdue for a good result coming up.

 

Gasly seems to be doing what I always thought he would...perform very well.  Looking forward to seeing more from both the STR duo!  :up:  :up:



#28 potmotr

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 16:37

According to Will Buxton, after just two races Helmut Marko called Brendon Hartley to tell him that he β€œneeds to step up his game”. No real conclusions before Spanish GP I guess, but there's a pattern with underpeforming drivers in Toro Rosso. The point is to remain strong mentally and don't lose it due to pressure (like Kvyat did). 

 

Fair enough I guess, he does need to up his game.

 

The speed is there, he just needs to cut the first lap errors and run a clean weekend.

 

Can't have been easy with the amount of adulation Gasly is getting.

 

Pressure is building, let's hope his years at Porsche mean he can deal with it and bounce back. 

 

Here's Brendon's post-race video blog from Bahrain: 

 

https://www.theplaye...brendon-hartley


Edited by potmotr, 12 April 2018 - 16:55.


#29 JoeDede

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:37

I'm not a fan or anything, but I really hope Hartley gets a great race this week. He seems like a really nice guy  :)



#30 SonJR

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 13:09

I agree, he needs and deserves a break (not a time-out, haha).

He seems like a genuinely good guy and is obviously no slouch, but so far has both been unlucky and something of an incident magnet - not unlike a certain Russian.

 

I wouldn't be surprised there's some at STR/RBR right now regretting cutting Kvyat loose instead of investing more time in him, but I agree with the opinion above that it was just done for him there and they'd obviously given him enough chances. I hope to see him back elsewhere, though. A change of scenery might do wonders. I was hoping he'd end up at Williams, but it seems he should be almost glad he didn't. I don't fancy his chances of a return, but maybe if he impresses Ferrari and has luck something at Haas or Sauber could open up. (Or if he finds a bag of money, anything is possible then. Perhaps Force India, if they survive?)

 

Back on Hartley, he's seemed a bit out of his depth so far, but iirc he was a little error-prone in his first WEC season with Porsche too and came good there. Hopefully some time will help. What would definitely help is RBR laying off the pressure, but we know they won't... At least it might give some comfort that there's no-one really ready to leap in anyways.


Edited by SonJR, 13 April 2018 - 13:11.


#31 Ferrari2012

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 13:28

Gasly has to be faster than Hartley  for his future in the Redbull family.He is good but not Verstappen level I think.



#32 statman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 14:17

Apparently Hartley has hit a bird again! Two weekends in a row

 

 
""It was a reasonable clean day, we had a broken floor this morning so we lost some time in the first practice session which is never ideal, but other than that it was quite clean."
 
" It was a bit of an eventful first practice session across the cars with a few problems, we had a bird strike Brendon's front wing so we had a little bit of damage there. We also suffered some floor damage on his car, so we had to do a floor swap during the session which meant his run plan was a little bit disrupted."


#33 messy

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 14:50

Before last weekend these two seemed evenly matched and both in desperate need of their 'Ricciardo Bahrain Moment' where a Red Bull youngster suddenly leaps up onto the top table with a performance that makes the paddock take notice. And this time last week, to me, it seemed a mile away for both of them. Competent, unlucky, clouded by various issues, neither of them really troubling the points. Hard to say which of them was quicker because to be honest, neither seemed to be doing much.

Then instead of 'Ricciardo Bahrain Moment' we had 'Gasly Bahrain Moment' where he shocked everyone by sticking his STR in the top six in quali then went and took a poo all over Ricciardo's 2012 benchmark by doing even better in the race and coming fourth. It was out of nowhere.

I'm not saying Hartley is an F1 WDC in waiting or anything, but I think it's harsh on him that he's being criticised at the moment because before last weekend, him and Gasly were pretty much nip and tuck. And sure, while Gasly was stunning the paddock Hartley was wobbling out of Q3 contention, messing up the start and jittering round to a finish well out of the points but he did at least show flashes of similar speed. He just needs his 'moment' too.

#34 sopa

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 14:56

I'm not saying Hartley is an F1 WDC in waiting or anything, but I think it's harsh on him that he's being criticised at the moment because before last weekend, him and Gasly were pretty much nip and tuck. And sure, while Gasly was stunning the paddock Hartley was wobbling out of Q3 contention, messing up the start and jittering round to a finish well out of the points but he did at least show flashes of similar speed. He just needs his 'moment' too.

 

Still Bourdais comes to mind with regards to Hartley. Joins into F1 at the age of 28 as a champion of another series, after having fallen off F1 radar many years before.  On occasion decent, and  Bourdais started out 2008 fine alongside Vettel no less, but in the end got clearly beaten and in 2009 got beaten by Buemi too. Maybe Gasly is comparable to Buemi, who knows?

 

Hartley can put in some solid performances at times, I won't argue that. But he is in F1 for 1-2 seasons only. I would not be surprised if Honda pushed for that Japanese guy for 2019 provided he collects enough superlicence points.



#35 messy

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 15:11

Don't get me started on Bourdais. One of the worst hard luck stories I've seen in recent years.

Australian GP - running 4th on debut with about three laps left, retires right at the end
Italian GP - fourth on the grid, stalls, Vettel wins in the sister car
Belgian GP - set for second place, third at least, before it all goes crazy on the last lap
2009 - sacked despite not being far off Buemi.

I really hope Hartley gets a better hand dealt him than that.

#36 rjsports

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 15:30

Right now there isn't good talent in the Red Bull program, one of the reasons he and Gasly got the drive in first place, so I think he will have some time to proof himself. Although it hasn't been amazing so far.



#37 Disgrace

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:51

Important performance from Hartley today, just as Gasly was receiving universal critical acclaim. A shame it was somewhat shrouded by the package going backwards and/or reverting to form.



#38 Ferrari2012

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:56

Important performance from Hartley today, just as Gasly was receiving universal critical acclaim. A shame it was somewhat shrouded by the package going backwards and/or reverting to form.

 

actually bringing these tyres in the right path is more important than the true pace of someone ...it s change every GP and this time Hartley did it right.Better be not the case in every GP for Gasly because he will loose respect from Marko and say bye bye for a Redbull seat.



#39 potmotr

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 20:05

Pretty evenly spread misery for these two in China then?

 

Hartley quicker by a hair in qualifying, but struggled badly with tyres in the race.

 

Gasly fared only slighted between before headbutting Hartley at the hairpin after that misunderstanding.



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#40 ensign14

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 15:04

Think this thread might be ending soon...



#41 goldenboy

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 15:11

Is this thread really only 1 page πŸ˜‚

I would love to see Hartley get it together but it's not looking good is it.

#42 GodHimself

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 15:32

Hartley really looks out of his depth in F1 to me. He has had a few rare, inconsistent glimpses of speed (more or less) on a few occasions, but other than that he seems clumsy, scared, unaware and frankly bordering on being a nuisance for his team. Maybe I'm too harsh in my assessment, but at the current rate I don't see him finishing the season.  


Edited by GodHimself, 28 April 2018 - 15:32.


#43 goldenboy

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 15:37

He does, doesn't he, which is strange as he is still an experienced driver that I rate above a few others in the field (but not many and not with his current mistakes).

#44 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 16:12

That was a scary miss! Hartley should have hugged the left wall there. Even hugging the line on the right would have been safer than what he did. One of the most dangerous things you can do driving on the road is be unpredictable, on a race track it's suicidal. Could have been a Billy Monger for Gasly there.

#45 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 16:30

Is an incident like this not one which should be addressed by the stewards? Not necessarily hand out a penalty, but at least have a talk?

 

:cool:



#46 maximilian

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 16:33

Rumor has it Lando Norris might be on his way here...



#47 noikeee

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 16:48

Hartley should have hugged the left wall there. Even hugging the line on the right would have been safer than what he did. One of the most dangerous things you can do driving on the road is be unpredictable, on a race track it's suicidal.


And you'd think Hartley, a seasoned, renowned endurance driver, a discipline where you're facing traffic all race long, would be very aware of this very fact. It's baffling.

#48 FLB

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 16:59

And you'd think Hartley, a seasoned, renowned endurance driver, a discipline where you're facing traffic all race long, would be very aware of this very fact. It's baffling.

As I posted in the Toro Rosso thread, it's not the first time he's done this...

 

https://www.autospor...r-hocking-crash



#49 statman

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 17:04

Man Hartley is in bits. Think he had a big scare out there. He’s white as a sheet.



#50 messy

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 17:04

Hartley made a mistake. He knew full well he'd screwed up. He'll certainly not make that mistake twice. I think the two of them seem like quite level headed people, they'll have a talk about it and shake hands.