385 replies to this topic

[gillesfan76]

Reported by Auto Motor und Sport, Liberty is allegedly proposing to replace the current qualifying format with a 100 km sprint race to determine the starting grid for race on Sunday.

 

The whole excitement with qualifying is to see which drivers can pull out that perfect 1 lap under pressure. I don't support Liberty's proposal.

[PedroDiCasttro]

They're late with their April fools' joke, aren't they?

[Clatter]

They're late with their April fools' joke, aren't they?

Almost every suggestion they come up with sounds like a joke. It's difficult to know the difference.

[PedroDiCasttro]

Almost every suggestion they come up with sounds like a joke. It's difficult to know the difference.

If this keeps up I might start supporting Merc/Ferrari's attempt at starting another series.

[statman]

No topic? I mean, the developments at Liberty/FIA/FOM are quite fast now, but still. I hope I haven't fallen for an April 1st joke here but here we go:

 

AMUS:

 

https://www.auto-mot...nen-am-samstag/

 

google translate:

 

If it goes according to the plans of the new F1 bosses, then in addition to the normal qualifying could also determine an additional qualifying race on Saturday, the starting grid. But the new format is not fixed yet.

 

The new Formula One owners are worried. The average age of the fans is too high. But how do you introduce young fans to the sport when the attention span is barely longer than a YouTube movie? Who of the younger generation is willing to sacrifice one and a half to two hours on Sunday for a pleasure one would not know beforehand, if it would be a pleasure at all? Since a small appetizer would not be bad, which brings a younger target group to Formula 1.

 

Cricket did it. The sport, in which a match can last a week, responded to spectator fading with a short form called Twenty20 cricket. Since a game takes "only" 3 hours. It worked. The compact cricket has drawn young people into the sport and now also for the traditional form of English national sports excited. Liberty wants to pick up on this move for Formula One and revise the format of the race weekends.

 

The new process of the three-day Grand Prix Party is due to begin on Friday with a public technical inspection. The goal is that the fans can see the cars up close with a Friday ticket. That would upgrade the first day of training. Then the 50 euro entrance fee would be worthwhile if you can see the cars up close. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff considers this a good idea: "We do not understand the whole hide-and-seek game around the cars anyway. There are thousands of photos in circulation. That's why we can show our cars right away. "

 

According to the Liberty Plan, two one-hour training sessions would be scheduled on Friday afternoon. Saturday morning follows the classic qualification. The result is the starting grid for a sprint race over 100 kilometers, the result of which then gives the final starting grid.

 

The original plan to have the drivers start the sprint in the reverse order of the drivers' classification has been abandoned. It would have been a step too far. One would have had to face the accusation of wanting to create tension with artificial means. The formula 2 reaps more criticism than praise with its reverse starting position in the first 8 places for the sprint race.

 

Wolff suggests upgrading the fight for the best lap time: "Why do not we award points for the result of the training? Then there may be teams looking for a quick lap, tuning their car accordingly, and defending their position in the race. "

 

For Liberty is important: The qualifying race would take place on Saturday at prime time. Just before the football matches in the European leagues. There would be no fuel or tire limits in a 100-kilometer sprint. With the aim of giving the drivers full throttle from the first to the last lap. This is especially intended to attract young people.

 

In Melbourne, Liberty launched a survey among the teams, what they thought of the plan and what they would change. Niki Lauda, ​​for example, suggests: "Why does not set a maximum length for the races. Let's say 100 or 90 minutes. The two-hour races in Singapore and Monte Carlo are hard to sell if nothing happens for two hours. "

[HerbieMcQueen]

So we get two processions a weekend instead of just the one? Joy.

[Anderis]

And how are the starting positions of that sprint race going to be determined?

 

EDITED after more than 24h: It's funny how my question has got so many likes because initially there had been two separate threads merged into one and I was posting an honest question in the one which didn't have any details in the OP. Now the question either looks stupid or the people see some kind of irony that was not there? Funny thing anyway.

Edited by Anderis, 03 April 2018 - 21:47.

[statman]

while I was writing this, someone else started the same topic. Can a moderator move translation to that topic (since it doesn't have the translation) and delete this one?

 

Thank you

[Jazza]

The ideas are getting that crazy, I’m surprised they haven’t suggested qualifying has to run the lap backwards yet.

I’m sure this qualifying race will be coupled with a reduction of only two engines for the season to help manage the costs. And then because everyone is doing a reliability run and not passing, they will need to have have four DRS zones and mandate the use of two compounds with 4 steps between them, just to make sure the sprint race is entertaining...

Edited by Jazza, 02 April 2018 - 14:05.

[P123]

I'm assuming they won't be using F1 cars for this race, otherwise it won't be a race and instead of just one procession during the weekend we will have two.

Sounds like the sort of bright idea Bernie would come up with...

Edited by P123, 02 April 2018 - 14:06.

[Taxi]

I just hope Kimi retires fast so that I don't have to keep up with this sh** anymore. 

[gillesfan76]

And how are the starting positions of that sprint race going to be determined?

 

By a traditional qualifying (1 lap). Unfortunately, yes I'm serious.

[PayasYouRace]

They lost me at “who of the younger generation is willing to sacrifice one and half hours” bit. We’re talking about a generation that will binge watch entire tv series in a single session. This short attention span thing is a nonsense.

[F1matt]

Overtaking looked impossible in Melbourne, if they start the “mini” race on previous race positions it almost guarantees the winner of the last race will start on pole barring mechanical problems. Every time liberty have an idea they look more useless.....

[Goron3]

Reported by Auto Motor und Sport, Liberty is allegedly proposing to replace the current qualifying format with a 100 km sprint race to determine the starting grid for race on Sunday.

 

The whole excitement with qualifying is to see which drivers can pull out that perfect 1 lap under pressure. I don't support Liberty's proposal.

According to the article, qualifying will still remain and would replace FP3. This would be an extra race on Saturday with no tyre/fuel limits.

 

Having thought about this idea, I actually really like it. That said, I would like them to trial it using simulators to determine if it does improve the event. 

 

Less practice before qualifying is definitely a good idea though as it gives the engineers and drivers less time to dial in a perfect set up. I'm not quite sure how this effect parc ferme though - presumably the cars would enter parc ferme conditions on Saturday afternoon?

Edited by Goron3, 02 April 2018 - 14:16.

[PlayboyRacer]

I said a while back it would be interesting if you found the average age on this forum... then go wider and find the average age of the casual F1 fan.

The next 10 years is crucial for Formula 1. Who's betting they shoot themselves in the foot and finish the sport off completely?

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 02 April 2018 - 14:17.

[LeClerc]

Now, I'm normally the cranky old man here, but to me it doesn't seem that bad.

[Jazza]

By a traditional qualifying (1 lap). Unfortunately, yes I'm serious.

And it defeats the whole point.

Apparently the younger fans can’t concentrate for more than 5 seconds so need something quick and exciting. However, as someone who can watch hours of endurance racing from start to finish, I would find it hard to watch qualifying, and a sprint race, and then a normal race, possibly as much as 24 weekends a year. There are other things in life beyond F1, and I’m not even a teenager looking for the next new thing to grab my attention. But this would now make 3 parts to a Grand Prix, not even including practice sessions and all the other things that go on during a race weekend, and this in an ever growing calendar.

How many of these young fans are going to bother with this many events on a weekend over a full season?

[PayasYouRace]

What is a good idea is the public scrutineering on Fridays. That would work with any weekend format and would open up F1 to the fans in a positive way.

[maverick69]

Sounds complicated and full of pitfalls. I'd say that qualy is one of the key things that F1 has got right.

 

Just sort out the aero. It's that simple.

[PayasYouRace]

By a traditional qualifying (1 lap). Unfortunately, yes I'm serious.

Traditional qualifying or 1 lap? Which one?

[LeClerc]

What is a good idea is the public scrutineering on Fridays. That would work with any weekend format and would open up F1 to the fans in a positive way.

 

Now that makes my mouth water, but I don't think I'll live long enough to see that. And not because I plan on croaking soon.

[PlayboyRacer]

Apparently the younger fans can’t concentrate for more than 5 seconds so need something quick and exciting.

What younger fans? Lets be real, the young ones have a short attention span... for things they don't give a **** about.

As someone else mentioned, if they enjoy something, they'll binge. Good luck getting them to binge on F1 though.

I do like that Liberty have the sense to realise its a huge problem moving forward. At least they're paying some attention.

[JHSingo]

What does it matter, if the cars can't overtake?

 

Qualifying is often more intriguing than the races anyway...until Mercedes takes the piss and turns it up to eleven, I mean.

[Dolph]

By a traditional qualifying (1 lap). Unfortunately, yes I'm serious.

 

They would get a similar result by having the start on Sunday be taken twice. Just have a normal start as you would, drive two laps, then settle on grid as you are and start again. Not that that's a great idea. But a processional race (no pitstops) on Saturday is not going to fix anything.

[SCUDmissile]

I love how these constant cabal of ****s always go after the one thing that doesn't need fixing.

 

Nobody complains about the current qualifying format. Nobody. But that's what they want to change. I have no words.

The people in charge of this sport deserve everything they are about to get.

[Jon83]

Liberty Media have thus far been an absolute joke for the sport.

 

I'm not saying it was great, or even especially good before them, but good God it is certainly a lot worse with them.

[jonpollak]

And how are the starting positions of that sprint race going to be determined?

 

Qualifying!!!

[Muppetmad]

I really don't like to disparage F1 unnecessarily, but at this point, it's starting to feel like Liberty are trying to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic...

[PayasYouRace]

I really don't like to disparage F1 unnecessarily, but at this point, it's starting to feel like Liberty are trying to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic...

At times it feels more like they’re suggesting drilling holes in the hull to let the water out.

I genuinely think they studied Bernie’s leadership and completely misunderstood what worked.

[SirVanhan]

So Liberty Media is basically a Bernie Ecclestone who owns a smartphone.

[SilverArrow31]

I said this in 2016 when they tried that new qualfying format and I will say it again. Qualfying is not an issue, its one of the few things I think are perfect in F1, leave saturdays alone.

[Goron3]

I love how these constant cabal of ****s always go after the one thing that doesn't need fixing.

Nobody complains about the current qualifying format. Nobody. But that's what they want to change. I have no words.
The people in charge of this sport deserve everything they are about to get.

Judging from the article, quali will remain but it will be moved to earlier in the day.

[r4mses]

And how are the starting positions of that sprint race going to be determined?

 

I suggest a sprint race! 

[LuckyStrike1]

The honeymoon for Liberty Media is definetely over. 

[Garndell]

So 3hrs of Twenty20 is good but 2hrs of a GP is too long for "young fans".  As for the fans getting up close to the cars, that's something that should have been done years ago, but they also need to get rid of the "wall of engineers" in the garages & on the grid as it goes against that good idea.

 

The sprint race should consist of identical cars from a non F1 manufacturer/advertiser/supplier because in F1 cars it would be no different to a race now.  Also... how will PU limits work into it if they do a sprint race with F1 cars, will that be separate allocation or another drain on limited resources.

[Goron3]

I suggest a sprint race!

If you read the article you will have noticed that the answer you seek is something called 'qualifying'.

[ZOne]

More racing and a bigger chance for a mixed up grid on Sundays. Doesn't seem bad?

[noikeee]

I said this in 2016 when they tried that new qualfying format and I will say it again. Qualfying is not an issue, its one of the few things I think are perfect in F1, leave saturdays alone.

Exactly.

 

This is a stupid idea and sounds more like something Bernie would come up with. I'm disappointed if Liberty really do think this is the way of the future.

 

I'm not sure what are they trying to solve in the first place with this neither.

[kosmos]

I don't dislike the idea but the system I like is the one we had a long time ago, just one warm-up lap and the qualy lap, the driver alone in the track. Just one try.

[Bloggsworth]

April Fools was yesterday...

[redreni]

I actually think there's potential merit in this.

 

Reading the article, I don't see what's being achieved apart from increasing the quantity of races, which Liberty has seemed keen to do since it took over. On the other hand, I like F1 races, and I don't really follow the logic of somebody who likes something saying we ought to have less of it.

 

I would even go so far as to upset the purists by saying the reverse grid (based on previous race result) idea is not the worst one in the world. I understand people want to see the cars and drivers operating at their absolute limit over a single lap, but there's actually a heavy price to pay for that, which is as follows.

 

The current qualy format rewards designers and engineers for designing and engineering cars that are fast in clear air. Even if the car is terrible at following other cars, the reward for qualy performance still far outweighs the drawback of not being able to overtake. There's no point designing a car that gives more consistent downforce in dirty air if it is slower than other, more aero-sensitive cars, because the more aero-sensitive cars will outqualify you and then drive away from you in the race. They don't have to overtake you.

 

I really don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to change the format of a Grand Prix weekend so that you can no longer win races consistently if you can't overtake other cars. Making blue flags advisory would help with this because designers and engineers would have to make sure their driver would be able to get past potentially uncooperative backmarkers. Holding a reverse grid qualitying race on a Saturday would, equally, pose exactly the right kind of problem for those with a dominant car; how are we going to get past people?

 

There's nothing wrong, in my opinion, when fans have been saying for years that the cars need to be better at overtaking, with altering the sporting regulations, including the format, to make teams address that challenge if they want to win. If the past decade should teach us anything, it's that you can't just use a combination of technical regulations and wishful thinking to make the cars perform better in dirty air.

[Vielleicht]

You know I don't think the logic of this idea is actually all that bad either.

 

I just have zero confidence in this ever becoming reality because F1 is the embodiment of indecision, so we'll probably never find out if this works in real life or not.

Edited by Vielleicht, 02 April 2018 - 15:29.

[TomNokoe]

If they want to introduce things like this, just ensure it's not part of the world championship. Similar to how UK football started testing VAR in the FA Cup.

It's a terrible idea, though.

[Ben1445]

Why not have a traditional no frills qualifying for a handful of championship points, followed by a sprint race (on Sat or Sun) purely to decide the start grid for the longer GP which awards the big points? 

 

Can then stream that Sprint race for free as a taster, which gives them what they want. 

 

Nothing wrong with a shake up if done right. 

[William Hunt]

Off course Wolf suggests giving points for qualy: because Mercedes has a car that allows them to score a lot of pole positions, it they start giving points to qualy that woul'd be a travesty: that would only be in the advantage of the richest teams
I don't support a qualy race either, they should focus on fairer (re)distribution of wealth / income and on a budget ca to make races more exciting and to get new independent teams in F1, not these things

[Nonesuch]

According to the Liberty Plan, (...). Saturday morning follows the classic qualification. The result is the starting grid for a sprint race over 100 kilometers, the result of which then gives the final starting grid.

 

So the concern is that people don't want to spend too much time, and the solution is to have an additional meaningful session over the weekend, in addition to rescheduling the races to such times that they nigh on monopolize the day?

 

That's... so silly it might even be seen as a good idea by FOM.

 

If people could overtake, they would. Drivers don't muck around behind another car because they think 'well, that race win... it's just not as cool as a pole position in a sprint race, I'd better just not bother to overtake'.

Edited by Nonesuch, 02 April 2018 - 16:12.

[RECKLESS]

Where do you start on Sunday if you dnf on Saturday? Last? Another double kick in the teeth then. Jolly!

[f1paul]

If they're going to do something like this then don't have it for every single race, maybe just a few in a season and see how it goes. I've always thought this when a new format wants to be implemented in any series, not just F1. Try it out for a few events but not all of them because if people don't like it then at least it's only a few times a year but if people do like it, then you can simply add more events with a new format for the next season.

 

Use your common sense Liberty!   

[MastaKink]

Make the qualifying and sprint race on a Saturday in spec cars and then have the traditional qualifying and race on a Sunday and I'll maybe listen to some changes being made. 

 

Attention span my arse, the same article praised an even longer format ffs (20/20 cricket)  . It's the predictability and quality of racing that's the problem for those not already attached to the sport, not the length of the race.