385 replies to this topic

[ViMaMo]

I think allowing drs during qualifying is not good for the definition of it.

Qualifying shouldn't be touched.

[Beri]

Qualifying has generally been the most interesting bit of the weekend, although the crushing car advantage enjoyed by 2 cars renders it a tad predictable any weekend where RBR couldn't get in the mix

And another Pole position for a silver arrow..
Yeah, call that interesting..

[Clatter]

And another Pole position for a silver arrow..
Yeah, call that interesting..

But qualifying isn't the problem there. Whatever changes you make the faster car is always going to have the advantage.

[HP]

They lost me at “who of the younger generation is willing to sacrifice one and half hours” bit. We’re talking about a generation that will binge watch entire tv series in a single session. This short attention span thing is a nonsense.

Usually the attention span is shorter the more boring the program is.

 

And young people want to engage in whatever they are interested in.

 

In any case another boring race? That won't do.

[w1Y]

How about the final 5 in q4 qualy. each driver starts on the pole starting line and does one lap taking in turns. The lights have a set time from the moment they are stopped on the slot.

or just keep ot how it is because its already the best way to do it

[Tiakumosan]

Everybody racing on MP4/4s on qualy. Grid order decided by reverse classification on WDC. 20 laps, no pit stops.

[Loosenut]

1hr/12 laps was just fine for a very long time. I didn't care if not much happened for the 1st half an hour, it was worth watching for what happened when it got going. The quali system that exists now is also just fine as it is. If they want to fix something, fix stuff that's broke for a damn change!

[sabjit]

I'm really beginning to grow tired of F1s approach of "fix what ain't broke". 

Edited by sabjit, 15 January 2019 - 22:11.

[azza200]

Some Quali sessions are better then the actual race, which says a lot about the current dire state of current F1

[P123]

If by 'current state' you mean the past 25+ years.

[917k]

And if if by ''dire state'', you mean what was many thoroughly entertaining races this year especially. 

 

I grow weary of the patent statement that F1 sucks regardless, ignoring what actually went on this year and years past. There was, in my opinion, nothing dire about races that were competitive, had abundant passing and close competition, at the front and throughout the field. 

[sabjit]

And if if by ''dire state'', you mean what was many thoroughly entertaining races this year especially. 

 

I grow weary of the patent statement that F1 sucks regardless, ignoring what actually went on this year and years past. There was, in my opinion, nothing dire about races that were competitive, had abundant passing and close competition, at the front and throughout the field. 

 

This. The amount of times I watch a thoroughly thrilling race, and everyone agrees it was good and then a week later we all start saying every race is dull. Then the next race comes along, equally as good and the cycle starts again.

[danmills]

Points for all finishers would be better. And a wider gap to the top spots. Looking at that system above I'm shocked red bull opposed given it stood to benefit consistency of also ran results. That system would make Bottas champion.

[P123]

This. The amount of times I watch a thoroughly thrilling race, and everyone agrees it was good and then a week later we all start saying every race is dull. Then the next race comes along, equally as good and the cycle starts again.

"The races are terrible these days" has been a favourite cry of F1 fandom since.. forever.

[Sterzo]

"The races are terrible these days" has been a favourite cry of F1 fandom since.. forever.

I was introduced to racing in the fifties, when the standard moan that it was rubbish compared with the thirties, when Mercedes were brilliantly impressive and won everything.

[F1 Mike]

I was thinking about how everyone has been saying lately that there's this huge gap between the top teams and the rest.

Compare qualifying times from 1999/2000 and now - 6th place in quali is between 1.2 & 1.4 generally from pole position time. Its been that for many years so it's not really changed much.

The part that has changed is the reliability which now mostly locks out the top 4 to top 6 places at the end of the race.

This reliability formula was CREATED by the FIA.

Theres nothing wrong with qualifying.

Edited by F1 Mike, 17 January 2019 - 17:30.

[SenorSjon]

Points for all finishers would be better. And a wider gap to the top spots. Looking at that system above I'm shocked red bull opposed given it stood to benefit consistency of also ran results. That system would make Bottas champion.

 

No, just top 6. 

[Nonesuch]

they're still busy thinking about the starting grid, now something else:

Formula 1 created simulation for potential grid format change

As an aside, well done to Autosport's editors for sneaking in this sentence: "Title-winning F1 team technical boss Pat Symonds". Sound a lot better than "Previously banned-from-F1 for cheating Patrick Symonds".

With that out of the way, F1 is going to be hilarious if they're basing their rule-making on so-called "artificial intelligence".
 

Theres nothing wrong with qualifying.

 

Other than that you can barely see any of the laps, as the director frequently opts to show a static finish-line shot so as not to miss anyone setting a new time. Which, for some reason, people find more interesting when it goes along with a shot of a car driving down a straight.

[Ali_G]

Make each pit straight 26 cars wide and get on with it.

[SenorSjon]

As an aside, well done to Autosport's editors for sneaking in this sentence: "Title-winning F1 team technical boss Pat Symonds". Sound a lot better than "Previously banned-from-F1 for cheating Patrick Symonds".

With that out of the way, F1 is going to be hilarious if they're basing their rule-making on so-called "artificial intelligence".
 

 

Other than that you can barely see any of the laps, as the director frequently opts to show a static finish-line shot so as not to miss anyone setting a new time. Which, for some reason, people find more interesting when it goes along with a shot of a car driving down a straight.

 

TV Direction is abysmal as it is, usually showing drivers in pit box while a pole lap is being set.

[F1 Mike]

The format of qualifying and the quality of the tv coverage are separate matters though

[absinthedude]

Qualifying isn't exactly broken and is often exciting. The current format also means lots of on track action for the three mini sessions. 

 

As for points for all finishers....nope...please no. I do agree with points for the top 10 as it currently means around half to 60% of finishers score. Back in the day when the top 6 scored, it was again about half the finishers. It should be a major achievement for a team or driver to score points. Not merely turning up and lasting the distance. 

 

Looking back, as I often do, to past years/decades....I miss full grids of 26 cars. There was more chance of overtaking, more chance of retirements....in part because there were simply more cars. 

[pdac]

Make each pit straight 26 cars wide and get on with it.

 

And the first corner 1 car wide.

[statman]

Autobild (through transl.

 

Parallel starting grids in F1?

 

Liberty Media also tries to make Formula 1 more exciting with little tweaks. Simulations showed: A parallel starting line-up brings more excitement.

 

Actually, Formula 1 can not complain about lack of action: 686 overtaking maneuvers were counted in 2018 - that's 251 more than in 2017!

But that's not enough for Formula One owner Liberty Media. They are used to quite different numbers from America. In NASCAR, Ricky Stenhouse jr. in 2018 had a total of 3090 overtakes on his own! That's more than the Formula 1 produced in five years ...

 

In addition: At the start of survey of overtaking statistics in 1981 there were 40 maneuvers per race. That's around seven more than 2018. Sounds little, but in the average 33 overtaking in 2018 are also those who went through the overtaking DRS without proper wheel-to-wheel action. And therefore fans do not recognize them as true overtakes.

 

Liberty Media therefore relies on artificial intelligence and scientific research to generate more positional changes. Pat Symonds, one of the technicians at Benetton in the era of Michael Schumacher, leads this effort.

 

Above all, the aim is to incorporate the results into the construction of new routes - such as the new course in Vietnam, which will be added to the calendar in 2020. The 5.656-kilometer track with 22 curves and a 1.5-kilometer straight was designed on the basis of these findings. Symonds says: "The calculators take several hours to complete a round, but we manage to model a reasonable model of the air turbulence caused by a car. It takes into account the aerodynamics of the vehicle surface, but also the properties of the tires. "

 

But the starting grid was also scrutinized with the simulation tool. Currently it is again refrained from the fact that the Formula 1 starts in the 1950s and 1960s in three or even four in a row. But the staggered two a row are under scrutiny. Currently, the second on the grid is eight meters behind the first, the third eight meters behind the second, and so on.

 

But what if you start in parallel rows of two? Symonds team tested this with 50 races of two laps - with 19 computer pilots and a real driver. The result: There were three percent more accidents, even five percent more overtaking maneuvers, but above all 20% more head-to-head action!

[Fastcake]

So you get more overtakes off the start, and more crashes in the run to the first corner, but then the cars sort themselves into an order and the rest of the race proceeds as normal.

That’s not going to make any difference. And most overtaking statistics ignores positions gained at the start anyway.

[pdac]

So you get more overtakes off the start, and more crashes in the run to the first corner, but then the cars sort themselves into an order and the rest of the race proceeds as normal.

That’s not going to make any difference. And most overtaking statistics ignores positions gained at the start anyway.

 

You're contradicting yourself there. First you say "you get more overtakes off the start" and "more crashes in the run to the first corner", then you say "That's not going to make any difference".

[SenorSjon]

Those models usually go out the window if you use 20 human players. Why they test it on AI is beyond me.

[Nonesuch]

Why they test it on AI is beyond me.

 

If it's the same "AI" that gives me Amazon recommendations...

 

I want to see it.

 

It'll be dreadful racing, but oh so hilarious.

[F1 Mike]

Absolutely HATE the idea - it takes away the excitement of pole position on qualifying day. If you're 1st or 2nd it will make absolutely no difference

Edited by F1 Mike, 04 February 2019 - 18:33.

[f1paul]

Absolutely HATE the idea - it takes away the excitement of pole position on qualifying day. If you're 1st or 2nd it will make absolutely no difference

I wouldn't mind it IF they give a point for pole, then pole means something at least.

[djparky]

Usually the attention span is shorter the more boring the program is.

And young people want to engage in whatever they are interested in.

In any case another boring race? That won't do.

Yeah but if you binge watch Game of thrones or Riverdale or whatever, it will be more entertaining than Sky droning on about Hamilton with another crushing win in the fastest car

[johnmhinds]

How is changing the grid layout going to change the overtaking stats which don't count passes on the first lap.

[Clatter]

How is changing the grid layout going to change the overtaking stats which don't count passes on the first lap.

The extra crashes at the start might make it easier for the survivors.

[Thursday]

I wouldn't mind it IF they give a point for pole, then pole means something at least.

 

That could lead to the championship being decided on a Saturday.

Edited by Thursday, 04 February 2019 - 23:37.

[Dratini]

That could lead to the championship being decided on a Saturday.

It's a moot point for me. If a driver scoring one point decides the championship then the 'battle' on the Sunday probably wasn't worth getting excited about anyway.

[johnmhinds]

The extra crashes at the start might make it easier for the survivors.

Extra crashes = less cars to pass surely?