35 replies to this topic

[Christophe77]

This is Formula 1 as it should be:

 

 

 

 

[AustinF1]

Awesome.

[cravenciak]

Winner outlaped 10 out of 14 cars that finished this race, freakin' great Formula 1... You guys tend to pick up some single fights or overtakes from that period and claim 'woooaah it was so great back then!'. No, it wasn't. Except for engines. I don't say it's better now but you can make a highlights video from every single season in history and make them look awesome even though reality was mostly rather dissapointing. Memory can do tricks to our perception...

Edited by cravenciak, 06 April 2018 - 22:36.

[Rob]

If you enjoyed that, here's Jean Alesi in the Ferrari 412T2.

 

[Lennat]

Dat road relevance tho...

[LeClerc]

Ah, the good old days when only 7 cars finished with only 3 on the lead lap.

 

Now, if we could have the parity of those days combined with the reliability of our days....

 

 

Edit: both videos now blocked by FOM. Great job getting more people into this.

Edited by LeClerc, 06 April 2018 - 22:43.

[midgrid]

You can still watch the videos on YouTube (they were both uploaded by the official F1 account) - they're just blocked from being embedded in other webpages, such as here.

[Otaku]

Winner outlaped 10 out of 14 cars that finished this race, freakin' great Formula 1... You guys tend to pick up some single fights or overtakes from that period and claim 'woooaah it was so great back then!'. No, it wasn't. Except for engines. I don't say it's better now but you can make a highlights video from every single season in history and make them look awesome even though reality was mostly rather dissapointing. Memory can do tricks to our perception...

 

Because DRS, parking lot tarmac tracks and red flags and halos (I just puked) of today are certainly better...   

Edited by Otaku, 06 April 2018 - 23:12.

[Berner]

There is no perfect solution. All sport involves a compromise or two. Even cross-country skiing (yawn or yeah?) has two "classes": classic versus skate.

 

I loved Formula Atlantic in the mid-nineties; you loved FF in the 60's. And so on. No one will be totally happy and total happiness is for no one!

[PedroDiCasttro]

This is F1 as it should be:

 

Edited by PedroDiCasttro, 07 April 2018 - 00:04.

[Atreiu]

1993 isn't a go to classic season to me, but it was still rich. The little McLaren and Benetton improved from 1992 to 1993 was enough to create terrific races, allow Senna and Schumacher to shine (and demonstrate why they were the two best on the grid) and prevent a repeat of the soul crushing dominance which had been unleashed by the FW14B. And the cars allowed drivers to battle, overtake and defend with nothing coming for granted (neither DRS like drive byes nor deffensive driving not necessry trains).

[jonpollak]

Nostalgia thread.

[BCM]

Max could do with some watching of that battle. Senna was tough but fair - no sudden swerving movements to block Prost. Senna gave Prost plenty of racing room, whilst making Prost earn the spot.

 

Love the look of the cars from that era. And still some of the best and most distinctive liveries ever for mine.

Edited by BCM, 07 April 2018 - 00:31.

[PlayboyRacer]

1993 isn't a go to classic season to me, but it was still rich. The little McLaren and Benetton improved from 1992 to 1993 was enough to create terrific races, allow Senna and Schumacher to shine (and demonstrate why they were the two best on the grid) and prevent a repeat of the soul crushing dominance which had been unleashed by the FW14B. And the cars allowed drivers to battle, overtake and defend with nothing coming for granted (neither DRS like drive byes nor deffensive driving not necessry trains).

Last classic season was 1997. Look at it from this perspective, 4 teams won races (Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton), almost 5 with Arrows at Hungary. There was a tyre war, 9 teams (YES 9!) stood on the podium at least once. That is unheard of today. Performance ebbed and flowed for many teams depending on circuit (Prost and Jordan two prime examples) and, most of all, we had a see sawing title battle between two very famous, talented and fiesty drivers with very contrasting personalities. There was a bit of spite, dirty tricks, genius (Schumacher) and big balls (Villeneuve).

 

Lastly - it was the final season with the wide track cars with slicks. At the time, maybe we didn't appreciate it enough. Rush 2 anyone?

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 07 April 2018 - 03:35.

[Murl]

Ah, the good old days when only 7 cars finished with only 3 on the lead lap.

 

Now, if we could have the parity of those days combined with the reliability of our days....

 

 

Edit: both videos now blocked by FOM. Great job getting more people into this.

 

 

I find it far more boring when all the cars finish a race. When F1 cars are reliable it suggests to me that they are not at the ragged edge. That's where it is at for me. 

[Bikr7549]

I really like the camera angle from the side of drivers head at same height rather than above and behind-it makes me feel like I am almost in there. Beautiful cars!

[RacingGreen]

Liberty need to look at two things about those on-board camera video's above:

a) the camera lower by the drivers head is much more dramatic as you get more suspension movement etc. Can we mount a camera lower on the halo ?

b) the current generation of digitally stabilised cameras are actually too good to get exciting footage, it makes everything appear too easy and controlled like a video game. I actually want the camera to wobble as the driver rumbles on the kerb. I see the camera shake as the driver is having to fight to keep the car on the track, it adds to the feeling of speed. 

 

Modern on-board cameras are so good they are boring.

[Ali_G]

F1 was terrible back then. F1 has no social media presence. No live timing. That Senna - Prost fight would have been really spiced up with DRS.

[markelov74]

Because DRS, parking lot tarmac tracks and red flags and halos (I just puked) of today are certainly better...

When did red flags become a bad thing? Is putting drivers in more danger to your enjoyment?

Edited by markelov74, 07 April 2018 - 09:46.

[OvDrone]

Living in the past has to be wonderful.

[LeClerc]

I find it far more boring when all the cars finish a race. When F1 cars are reliable it suggests to me that they are not at the ragged edge. That's where it is at for me. 

 

Let me put on my serious-hat for a minute here. (I don't do that to often, so pay attention    )

 

The lack of reliability and smooth control back in the day, was more a function of lack of data and resources on the teams part. If you think that in the olden days a driver never hung back and nursed his car, you are wrong.

 

It LOOKED much more on edge, because those cars were incredibly hard to drive. No aids, no displays, no telemetry, no voice in your ear to tell you what to do next, and above all a limited understanding of aerodynamics.

 

We have come to the point where almost nothing the cars do is a mystery to the teams, hell they even beam telemetry back to HQ in real-time to a myriad of engineers helping the drivers think.

 

The more data/understanding you have, the less unpredictable anything becomes. Trust me, I'm an engineer 

 

I too am pining for those good old days but mainly because in those days I wore a younger man's clothes, oh and because the cars were not three times longer than their width.

 

Finally, I would like to out myself as a heretic: I still look at the Villeneuve/Arnoux battle as a manifestation of divine intervention, those two guys were trying their hardest to crash but somehow it didn't happen.

They pulled it off and now that footage has become iconic, although all it shows is that even if you stop caring about your own health and that of your competitor, you can sometimes still make it through.

[Group B]

Ah, the good old days when only 7 cars finished with only 3 on the lead lap.

 

Now, if we could have the parity of those days combined with the reliability of our days....

 

 

Edit: both videos now blocked by FOM. Great job getting more people into this.

 

Actually I liked a bit of unreliabilty, it added an extra edge right to the end, even if someone was miles ahead there was a chance their engine would turn hand grenade.

[peterkramer75]

To be honest living int he past with Modern f1 is about the only thing you can do.

Never been so disillusioned about F1 as I am now, as are most people my sort of age.

 

it used to be at least talked about at work or in groups, but not anymore.

 

Very Emperors new clothes, very niche, extremely dull to watch and but for a few small blips really rather a waste of time and money!

 

For some reason millions seem to enjoy it.  Must be me then.

 

Some quotes above are very relevant.

 

We all loved a backmarker, or a blowup.

 

You could never fully relax watching a race in the turbo era. A missed gear was all it took.  Sadly those skills are all completely gone.

Edited by peterkramer75, 07 April 2018 - 10:47.

[Collombin]

Living in the past has to be wonderful.

Not really, but what's the alternative?

I actually feel jealous of new F1 fans who genuinely don't know any better.

At least Indycar is still Indycar.

[F1matt]

It would be interesting to know if they were conversing with their engineers during this video, “oh he blocked me, it’s ok we’re onto Charlie” somehow I doubt it. In the current era Verstappen would just cut out Maggots/Beckets to pass him then complain that he was forced out wide why Sky scream down the mike how he will go onto be the greatest of all time.

[sopa]

I agree that people tend to idolize the past too much.

 

And 1993 was no classic season due to the dominance of Williams. It had some great races, which have become classic over time  (i.e Donington), but overall... ? Nothing special.

 

However, main reasons, why racing back then was better than now is that it was easier to follow another car and overtake, because aerodynamics were inferior. And also unreliability rates were higher, so you could get some underdogs ending up on the podium. For example Ligier achieved a few podiums in that same 1993.

[PlatenGlass]

Last classic season was 1997. Look at it from this perspective, 4 teams won races (Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton), almost 5 with Arrows at Hungary. There was a tyre war, 9 teams (YES 9!) stood on the podium at least once. That is unheard of today. Performance ebbed and flowed for many teams depending on circuit (Prost and Jordan two prime examples) and, most of all, we had a see sawing title battle between two very famous, talented and fiesty drivers with very contrasting personalities. There was a bit of spite, dirty tricks, genius (Schumacher) and big balls (Villeneuve).
 
Lastly - it was the final season with the wide track cars with slicks. At the time, maybe we didn't appreciate it enough. Rush 2 anyone?

We've had classic seasons since 1997. In 2009, although Button was dominant early on, the second half of that season had probably the most competitive grid ever in terms of closeness right down the field. 8 of the 10 teams led laps over the season (13 drivers) - http://www.statsf1.c.../stats.aspx?t=T And of the two that didn't, BMW were hardly uncompetitive (Kubica could even arguably have won in Melbourne), and Toro Rosso were regularly in Q3 at the end of the season.

In 2012 I think the first 7 races were won by different drivers, and it was a real ebb and flow in terms of who had the best car.

[PlatenGlass]

I agree that people tend to idolize the past too much.
 
And 1993 was no classic season due to the dominance of Williams. It had some great races, which have become classic over time  (i.e Donington), but overall... ? Nothing special.
 
However, main reasons, why racing back then was better than now is that it was easier to follow another car and overtake, because aerodynamics were inferior. And also unreliability rates were higher, so you could get some underdogs ending up on the podium. For example Ligier achieved a few podiums in that same 1993.

If I'm putting on my rose-tinted spectacles, 1993 was already way past the peak anyway. The decline started from around the mid 80s. 1986 is regarded as a classic but there was very little strength in depth there. 1985 was better for that even if the title race wasn't as good. 1984 had too much McLaren domination. 1983 was when the turbos started becoming unbeatable, and there were only three good turbo teams, but early on there were wins from the normally aspirated cars. I would say anywhere from mid 1983 to after the 1986 season is when I'd call the beginning of the decline, depending on what mood I'm in.

[scheivlak]

Traction control, top drivers but also a lot of sub standard hopefuls, big differences in car competitiveness and a race full of strategical stupidities..... way overrated.

 

Overall, the early and mid nineties were the lowpoint of F1.

Edited by scheivlak, 07 April 2018 - 21:47.

[Christophe77]

We'll never get that F1 again... And it kinda makes me sad...

[PayasYouRace]

 

Lastly - it was the final season with the wide track cars with slicks.

 

The final season until last year of course.

[Christophe77]

 

Not F1... But wow... 

[Seanspeed]

Winner outlaped 10 out of 14 cars that finished this race, freakin' great Formula 1... You guys tend to pick up some single fights or overtakes from that period and claim 'woooaah it was so great back then!'. No, it wasn't. Except for engines. I don't say it's better now but you can make a highlights video from every single season in history and make them look awesome even though reality was mostly rather dissapointing. Memory can do tricks to our perception...

Another thing people tend to ignore is that a lot of these fights came when the two cars had very big performance differentials.  Watching the full race in context makes a lot of these passes feel a lot more inevitable rather than special.  I imagine they were considered a lot more special at the time because the sort of 'close racing' we have nowadays was basically unheard of back then.  Any sort of clash of two big drivers/competitors was something of note.  

 

 

Traction control, top drivers but also a lot of sub standard hopefuls, big differences in car competitiveness and a race full of strategical stupidities..... way overrated.

 

Overall, the early and mid nineties were the lowpoint of F1.

I would leave 1990 out of this.  One of the better seasons of F1 in history.  Great racing and amazing cars. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 07 April 2018 - 22:48.

[Tuxy]

Apparently...F1 should be "blocked."

 

[Seanspeed]

Apparently...F1 should be "blocked."

 

It's annoying, but it should work if you click play, then despite the blocked notice coming up, just hit the Youtube button in the bottom right.  

[PlayboyRacer]

The final season until last year of course.

Yes of course!😆