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Rear view mirrors on the halo. Or not?

Started by Gary Davies , Apr 25 2018 09:07

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136 replies to this topic

#1 Gary Davies

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:07

"The FIA has told Formula 1 teams that they can henceforth mount their rear view mirrors on the halo, as long as they comply with all relevant regulations.

Drivers have noted in the early part of the season that it has become even harder to see anything behind them with the current rear wing regulations..." Link.

In recent years, I've wondered why, given the obvious problems in drivers grabbing a quick impression, via the tiny mirrors, of what's behind them, no one has implemented a view out the back via a camera and a screen on the wheel.

Yeah, I know it's an additional control on the wheel but in my defence, yer Honour, the drivers seem to do a pretty good job of pressing buttons on the wheel at the moment. One imagines that when they look at the mirrors it is for a nanosecond so with a screen the pressing of the relevant button would similarly be for a nanosecond except that in this case the screen is nearer to the driver's line of sight and the image would surely be more informative that one or other of the tiny mirrors the cars currently have.

The image below is apparently of a Ferrari SF16H wheel from 2016.

f1-scuderia-ferrari-sf16-h-launch-2016-s

Edited by Gary Davies, 25 April 2018 - 09:08.

#2 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:21

The halo would seem an obvious place for mirrors. It would be a bit like how some Group C sportscars had them.

Having a camera would be ok, but it would have to be on a dedicated screen, not something the driver would have to switch to.

I don’t agree that the mirrors are tiny at the moment. They’re pretty chunky compared to the ones we used to see. But it is generally harder to get good lines of sight out of the cockpits (nothing to do with halo). So actually mounting them in the halo might be an improvement.

#3 TheRacingElf

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:25

Those will undoubtedly turn into some form of Halo wings... :drunk:

#4 learningtobelost

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:27

The halo would seem an obvious place for mirrors. It would be a bit like how some Group C sportscars had them.

While the analogy is perfectly apt, something feels inherently wrong about comparing Halo and Group C!

#5 steferrari

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:32

Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling that this can further worsening the driver's view... bah... :drunk:

#6 mmmcurry

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:37

A bit OT, but how much use are the mirrors? It seems if there is a crash then the commentators talk about how nothing can be seen in them, but drivers can see enough to block and weave.

Steve.

#7 mistareno

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:38

Why not do away with the mirrors completely and have rear facing cameras mounted up high on the airbox and have the screens projecting inside the helmet?

The aerodynamic advantages are obvious, and a wide angle high mounted camera can have a much better view than a mirror and not be exposed to damage or become dangerous in a crash.

The picture below shows one screen, I couldn't see why you couldn't have 2 slightly smaller ones in each corner.

They could even be active, and could only turn on or become less transparent when a car is within a certain distance, so

A: The driver knows when someone is getting close and pays attention, and

B The driver isn't distracted when there is no need for distraction...

Skully-Helmets-with-rearview-and-navigat

Edited by mistareno, 25 April 2018 - 09:41.

#8 Gary Davies

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:50

Having a camera would be ok, but it would have to be on a dedicated screen, not something the driver would have to switch to.

Why?

#9 P123

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:02

Is that so when a wheel hits the halo it can ping the wing mirror against the drivers head? I thought it was meant to be a safety device yet they are dressing it up with all sorts of breakable tat.

#10 JeePee

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:10

Is that so when a wheel hits the halo it can ping the wing mirror against the drivers head? I thought it was meant to be a safety device yet they are dressing it up with all sorts of breakable tat.

It was never meant to be a safety device.

It was always a 'cover your ass in case of a lawsuit'-device.

#11 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:14

Is that so when a wheel hits the halo it can ping the wing mirror against the drivers head?

The chances of a wheel hitting the Halo is very small and ...

Oh...

Right.

#12 Mosrite

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:16

I'm all for just leaving the halo alone as much as we can. It can't be improved, and now, only worsened with more and more sponsors logos to be appearing. If we give them more ideas what they can do with the halo it will only be a couple of seasons until there's a constant sponsor advertisement going on while they're racing. I've already gone more to the Merc side from Ferrari simply because Merc still keep the Halo black while Ferrari's got 2 white Kasperwsky's logos on the red halo, it's disgusting. If it's a safety device, let it be for safety and don't use it as yet another opportunity to cram down products down our throat. I paid to watch a race, not a 2 hour long commercial with a race going on behind it.

Mark my words, in 2 years, the Halo will be more used a a promotional device than safety. They'll use it to communicate race information to viewers occasionally, otherwise it will be a lot of space and a lot of time to sell stuff to the audience, earning F1 more money.

26in-66cm-P5-SMD-16-128pixel-wireless-WI

Edited by Mosrite, 25 April 2018 - 10:23.

#13 johnmhinds

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:34

Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling that this can further worsening the driver's view... bah...

How is this meant to change anything if the mirror stays in the same place and all they do is move the mounting point?

f1-ferrari-sf71h-launch-2018-ferrari-sf7

#14 Peat

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:35

4315.jpg?w=700&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&f

#15 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:55

Is that so when a wheel hits the halo it can ping the wing mirror against the drivers head? I thought it was meant to be a safety device yet they are dressing it up with all sorts of breakable tat.

No different to something hitting a mirror in the current location.

#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:57

Why?

So that the driver has that rear view available at all times and can see something happening.

#17 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:01

Now all they just need to do is to tweak it just a little bit further and install window screens in the Halo

#18 B Squared

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:02

#19 Kalmake

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:03

Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling that this can further worsening the driver's view... bah...

It takes the mounting away from eye level.

#20 Mosrite

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:10

So the FIA have given the green light and teams can choose to mount it on the Halo or chassis? I hope we have some teams mounting it on the Halo and some of the chassis for variety, it would be cool if the top teams varied it a bit too. I wonder if they can mount it to the Halo on one car and to the chassis on the other? Also, are teams free to introduce it anytime they want? I doubt there will be time before this weekend but I guess it could make an appereance at the next race?

#21 Gary Davies

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:21

So that the driver has that rear view available at all times and can see something happening.

You may be right, and I certainly don't mean to be argumentative but this...

I wonder how much time they spend looking ahead? I imagine the percentage is in the very high 90's. And then there's pressing the (presumably conveniently positioned) button to invoke the video screen. I'm thinking that, very rapidly, it would become a split second, almost unconscious action to press the button for the nanosecond you need to see the screen to figure out how close the guy behind is and perhaps, which line he's looking like taking.

We all know, in our road cars, how many actions are instinctive, momentary and subconscious. For example, overtaking... the flicking of the eyes to the internal mirror then to the driver's side mirror... it's just so quick. Well it is for me and I'm not exactly in the F1 driver class at doing several things all at once at 200 km/h!

What I'm saying is that in effect, the steering wheel screen would '... be available at all times'.

#22 CoolBreeze

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:39

Or they can just opt for the Ferrari F2006-F2008 style mirrors.

#23 Jerem

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:57

A bit OT, but how much use are the mirrors? It seems if there is a crash then the commentators talk about how nothing can be seen in them, but drivers can see enough to block and weave.

Steve.

During the Chinese GP, Montagny was explaining on French TV that all you can see in the mirrors is a blur of colour from the car behind. So in a sense both are true, you cannot see any detail but at least you can see if the car behind is going left or right.

#24 Jovanotti

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:10

Why not do away with the mirrors completely and have rear facing cameras mounted up high on the airbox and have the screens projecting inside the helmet?

The aerodynamic advantages are obvious, and a wide angle high mounted camera can have a much better view than a mirror and not be exposed to damage or become dangerous in a crash.

The picture below shows one screen, I couldn't see why you couldn't have 2 slightly smaller ones in each corner.

They could even be active, and could only turn on or become less transparent when a car is within a certain distance, so

A: The driver knows when someone is getting close and pays attention, and

B The driver isn't distracted when there is no need for distraction...

Road car relevance intensifies.

Seriously though, I think this would be a great idea :up:

#25 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 15:55

Why not just remove the halo...it would solve everything.

#26 CoolBreeze

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 16:02

I think Ferrari have tried rear cameras on the FXX originally, and from what I recall, the feedback wasn't that great. Thats why the 599xx after that still featured mirrors.

#27 Fatgadget

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 16:07

Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling that this can further worsening the driver's view... bah...

Worsening driver view?.. According to the anti-Halo brigade no doubt!

Why not just remove the halo...it would solve everything.

Solve what exactly?...Solve the fact that you and like minded Luddites just don't like it... :rolleyes:

Edited by Fatgadget, 25 April 2018 - 16:09.

#28 Retrofly

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 16:22

Worsening driver view?.. According to the anti-Halo brigade no doubt!

Solve what exactly?...Solve the fact that you and like minded Luddites just don't like it...

Its trash, gross and useless. If that makes me a luddite then so be it.

#29 Mosrite

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 16:33

Its trash, gross and useless. If that makes me a luddite then so be it.

don't worry, you're in the majority

#30 Atreiu

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 17:04

It's great. Like improvised clothes line.

It does not matter that the drivers will be even more hidden, or that some freak accident might sent the mirros straight to a driver's helmet, or that the cars will look even worse.

#31 garoidb

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 17:30

How about a cup-holder?

#32 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 17:42

As long as they point down and not up, then who cares. If they point up, dear god no. I say do away with them entirely and have fighter jet helmet like with heads up display in their visor. Drivers keep saying how useless they are anyway, better to have real progress then more of the same crap for them.

Edited by Paco, 25 April 2018 - 17:42.

#33 Atreiu

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 18:30

On a related note, Jesus f**king Christ, what the sh** is wrong with these guys? How could an idea like this get through?

#34 djparky

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 20:34

The cars look bloody terrible anyway, so adding something equally stupid doesn't make much more difference.

#35 Shade

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 21:29

Great, just when you thought they couldn't get any uglier...

#36 MikeV1987

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 21:33

Whatever, it really can't get much worse looking anyway. Might as well add some more winglets on there while they're at it.

#37 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 21:36

It's great. Like improvised clothes line.

It does not matter that the drivers will be even more hidden, or that some freak accident might sent the mirros straight to a driver's helmet, or that the cars will look even worse.

If you have a look above, you’ll see that it won’t actually change much at all.

#38 Turboflame

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 21:42

Bernie, my good good bro, please come back ....

#39 RacingGreen

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 21:45

Why not do away with the mirrors completely and have rear facing cameras mounted up high on the airbox and have the screens projecting inside the helmet?

The aerodynamic advantages are obvious, and a wide angle high mounted camera can have a much better view than a mirror and not be exposed to damage or become dangerous in a crash.

The picture below shows one screen, I couldn't see why you couldn't have 2 slightly smaller ones in each corner.

They could even be active, and could only turn on or become less transparent when a car is within a certain distance, so

A: The driver knows when someone is getting close and pays attention, and

B The driver isn't distracted when there is no need for distraction...

c

I can't see anything in the rules that says you can't have an in helmet HUD so teams could do this already if they thought it advantageous to do so. That they don't probably means that it isn't, maybe because the mirror mountings improve air flow around the cockpit.

The cynic in me imagines that the mirrors will now be fixed either on the car or on the halo based on aerodynamic modelling and not driver viability.