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May 2nd: Not only Attilio, Henri and Sergio, but also their....


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#1 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 07:07

Over time, for a number or car cacing fans, May 2nd has become a day to remember some good friends and idols we lost and shared something with another. More than with other drivers and idols we lost over time.

But in recent years, May 2nd has become a day to remember more than only these three men why died while doing what they enjoyed and were good in.

Atillio Bettega, Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresto, they all lost their lives on May 2nd during the rally of Corsica, Atillio in 1985, Henri and Sergio in 1986.

They were all on board of a Martini-Lancia.

 

The death of Henri and Sergio sealed the fate or the future of rallying and it lead to the demise of a generation of iconic cars of wich Lancia had built some as well, of not some of the most iconic ones ever.

But ironically, this new path lead to a series of successes for Lancia that had not yet been seen before and were believed to remain a standard for times to come. But records are there to be broken.

And success in the past doesn't guarantee a healthy future.

 

Ten years on and with a series of stunning successes and a line of cars that were a joy to behold if you owned one, Lancia was witdrawing from the competition worldwide, An it turned out, out of all kinds of competition.

And a free fall for the company began.

It is still there but the image is gone and appears to be redundant for its current owners, ready to be axed and confined to history.

Business is business and not charity, I understand.

But I still feel sad about it.

No successors for icons like the Stratos, 037, the different specs Deltas.

No follow ups that try to succeed onto what LC1 and LC2 failed to do.

 

Hence why, apart from remembering the last three men that died behind the wheel of the iconic cars of the company they drove for, I also feel sad about the demise as a serious competitor worldwide of the legendary brand they drove for.

And the founder of that company.

 

Vincenzo Lancia would have be proud of men like Attilio Bettega, Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresto.

 

All of you, rest in peace and thanks for the memories.

 

 

Henri

 



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#2 ensign14

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 09:19

Top Gear had a thing where they asked people to vote for which manufacturer had made the most great cars.  I think Ford came top of the poll.  The presenters said that only 9 people had got the answer right - Lancia.

 

Yes, I know it was Clarkson et al, so not necessarily a fully historically informed source, but they had a point.  Lancia has a very high proportion of iconic cars to overall output.



#3 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 09:34

Top Gear had a thing where they asked people to vote for which manufacturer had made the most great cars.  I think Ford came top of the poll.  The presenters said that only 9 people had got the answer right - Lancia.

 

Yes, I know it was Clarkson et al, so not necessarily a fully historically informed source, but they had a point.  Lancia has a very high proportion of iconic cars to overall output.

 

 

If I remember correct, I think I saw that program. Wasn't it the one in which Clarkson drove a Stratos with Hammond for passenger and Carkson gripping Hammond's knee alt the time when he shifted gears, upsetting Hammond?

I vaguely remember Clarkson saying something to the extend that for that particular election you mentioned, they had about the same amount of voters for that brand of car as the company in question had world titles in rallying.....

 

Yesterday I saw a episode of "Car SOS" about a Delta Integrale Evo2 saved from oblivion....

As if I needed to be reminded about today....



#4 RS2000

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:28

One notable lesson from Lancia's departure from rallying as a works team was that the world (or Appendix J) had moved on and a winning team had to be a works team. There was a perceived arrogance that the final EVO Integrale, with a crew of the quality of Sainz/Moya and Repsol money, could continue to dominate with a non-works team and no works development.
Interesting how the Rothmans Escort team could win a drivers' world championship and nearly win a world "manufacturers" championship two years on from the end of the Ford works team using that car (a car with minimal works support by then, but probably still a little bit better then than the works team/car that did win the maufacturers that year). Later again, manufacturers' works teams could be successfully run by Prodrive etc.
The Jolly Club, most successful non-works team running Lancias up to then, failed to do justice to the manufacturers name once it was carrying the flag alone. Probably a quirk of the Group A situation at the time? (with attempts to correct that ultimately leading to the ridiculous "Tonka toys" seen in the WRC today?).

Edited by RS2000, 02 May 2018 - 10:29.


#5 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:41

One notable lesson from Lancia's departure from rallying as a works team was that the world (or Appendix J) had moved on and a winning team had to be a works team. There was a perceived arrogance that the final EVO Integrale, with a crew of the quality of Sainz/Moya and Repsol money, could continue to dominate with a non-works team and no works development.
Interesting how the Rothmans Escort team could win a drivers' world championship and nearly win a world "manufacturers" championship two years on from the end of the Ford works team using that car (a car with minimal works support by then, but probably still a little bit better then than the works team/car that did win the maufacturers that year). Later again, manufacturers' works teams could be successfully run by Prodrive etc.
The Jolly Club, most successful non-works team running Lancias up to then, failed to do justice to the manufacturers name once it was carrying the flag alone. Probably a quirk of the Group A situation at the time? (with attempts to correct that ultimately leading to the ridiculous "Tonka toys" seen in the WRC today?).

 

 

In defence of Lancia, don't forget theat Toyota came up with a brand new designed Celica that shared little else with the preceding model than the type name while Lancia came up with improved versions of a car dat in 4WD shape originated from 1986 and that car itself was derived from the Fiat Ritmo, a car with its origins another 8 years earier, being introduced in 1978.

 

Seen in that light the run of titles for the Deltas is almost astounishing, specially the later years when more and more constructors finally got a `bespoke` Rally Gp A.



#6 guiporsche

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 11:57

I don't think Lancia or the Jolly Club had much illusions about the Delta's potential for 93 (although maybe the press corps perhaps thought otherwise, after Auriol's 92 victories). With the Celica getting faster and the new RS Cosworth, I'm sure they knew the writing was on the wall.

According to Sergio Limone, they knew the Delta had reached the end of its life, the Deltona had barely any development even in its initial stages and he was greatly surprised that the drivers were so enthused with the car. Already by 91, Abarth was working in parallel for Alfa, and in 92 Limone did not work on the Lancia any more.

See this interview with Limone (it includes English subtitles)

 

 


Edited by guiporsche, 02 May 2018 - 12:05.


#7 BRG

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 15:49

Sad to remember those lost in action back in the mad days of GpB.

 

As for Lancia, whilst they made a series of iconic and sucessful rally cars, unfortunately, they didn't make any road cars that anyone wanted, and if you did buy one, the engine fell out shortly beofre the whole thing collapsed in a heap of ferrous oxide.  So their demise isn't very surprising, and now that even their mediocre products are sometimes being badged as Chrysler in a desperate attempt to get someone to buy them, I see no future for the marque at all. 

 

Mind you, Maserati has been brought back from the dead and made into a successful brand, and Alfa are getting the same treatment, so perhaps FCA will revive Lancia.  Or maybe there simply isn't a niche for them anymore.

 

Probably a quirk of the Group A situation at the time? (with attempts to correct that ultimately leading to the ridiculous "Tonka toys" seen in the WRC today?).

Yes those Tonka Toys are just 4WD turbocharged bewinged versions of mundane small family cars, not like the legendary Lancia Delta Integrale which was a thoroughbred 4WD turbocharged bewinged version of a mundane small family car.



#8 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 18:15

Sad to remember those lost in action back in the mad days of GpB.

 

As for Lancia, whilst they made a series of iconic and sucessful rally cars, unfortunately, they didn't make any road cars that anyone wanted, and if you did buy one, the engine fell out shortly beofre the whole thing collapsed in a heap of ferrous oxide.  So their demise isn't very surprising, and now that even their mediocre products are sometimes being badged as Chrysler in a desperate attempt to get someone to buy them, I see no future for the marque at all. 

 

Mind you, Maserati has been brought back from the dead and made into a successful brand, and Alfa are getting the same treatment, so perhaps FCA will revive Lancia.  Or maybe there simply isn't a niche for them anymore.

 

 

 

 

Lots of truth in that I'm afraid.

 

As for Alfa and Maserati, I fear that with these to brands, the FIAT Group has very well covered the different markets. I can see Lancia filling in for either at the expense of the victim, But Lancia revived, I am afraid they would eat ito what the other two have to offer too much and little to no other marked left to take instead, without harming Alfa and/or Maserati.



#9 D-Type

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 18:27

Personally, I feel rallying lost its way when it moved away from series production cars to the current cars that have nothing other than the general silhouette and the name in common with what you see in a showroom.

I must admit to having a prejudiced view, having grown up in Kenya in the days of the Safari being for strictly "same as you can buy" cars.



#10 john aston

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 06:46

I have always thought of Alfas as being the poor man's Ferrari and Lancia the poor man's Maserati - and of course I adore all four marques. Despite their sometimes bonkers rally creations , none more so obviously than the Stratos(more even than the S4 as collective insanity had kicked in  throughout  Gp B by then ) there is still a dignity and sobriety in so many Lancias which the likes of Ford , and latterly VW and Audi , could never emulate .

 

But the great British public are famed for forgetting far more than they remember  and hence whilst the one thing the man on the Clapham  Omnibus remembers about Lancia is the Beta rust scandal in the mid 70s,  the same man  seems to have forgotten just how rust prone nearly everything else was at the time . One of the first rally cars I saw was Harry Kallstrom's Fulvia HF in the RAC Rally in 69 , and twenty years later a friend generously let me drive his HF - it felt very special indeed and its weird little V4 revved .like a good 'un 



#11 BRG

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 20:25

Yes, but there is rust and then there is RUST.  How many Lancia Betas survive, compared even to fellow-Italian marques such as FIAT?   It was one thing to find a rust bubble on the front wing, and another to find the engine had fallen out.  Coupled with the fact that the Beta saloon was fairly horrible anyway, the man on the Clapham omnibus might tell you that he was only taking the bus because his Lancia had let him down. 

 

 

The Fulvia was a nice little car, as was the FIAT era Beta Coupe, especially the HPE, and the Delta was a pretty little car and fun to drive although of questionable quality.  But after that, has Lancia made anything that wasn't a lemon?



#12 guiporsche

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 21:43

The French L'Automobile Magazine publishes every year (since 78 if I'm not mistaken) a catalogue of all cars produced around the world, or at least most of them. By 82, which is the earliest copy of the 'Hors-Serie' that I have, they were already complaining that Lancia's products lacked identity. These, of course, were the times when the Delta was simply a nice little car with Ritmo engines, well before the bonanza of the Integrale.

And by the early 90s, the same magazine was pointing out how Lancia's range was becoming old and mirroring a lack of investment/direction. This was right before the appearance of the new Delta in 93/4, and afterwards of the Kappa and Ypsilon.

 

So Lancia's decline has been a long time in the making, and perhaps it's one of the major legacies of men like Bettega and Toivonen (and Alen, Biasion, Kankunnen) that by their achievements, they managed to give life to a historical carmaker that otherwise perhaps would have been dead much longer ago. 



#13 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:13

May 2nd 2019

And because Motor racing has more varieties than track racing only, and I liked one of those varieties a long time a go really very much...

yet there isn't a single day in the year that for me is associated with the worst side of that once beloved sport.
No other day in the calender year has brought me more sadness because of being a rally fan as did May 2nd.
A day when rallying changed forever, maybe even got back to its common senses.
But against such a high prize....

Rest in peace Atillio Bettega
Rest in peace Henri Toivonen
Rest in peace Sergio Cresto

Edited by Henri Greuter, 02 May 2019 - 10:14.